Jump to content

Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
in Golden Posts

 Share

Recommended Posts

Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
Hope you are planning to pay your tax bills this time. Remember they are not supposed to be optional.

 

It is always funny when one of the pet skates comes on here and quotes revenue figures from gate receipts. They always forget VAT which at 20% eats into their revenue. Corp Ho (also known as "pig sick") always did it and now FMPR has missed it out of his calculations as well.

 

Are skates allergic to tax?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Waterside.saint

Waterside.saint

Posted
Posted
Doubt it, I'm a Londoner who travels down for the matches, I'm sure the bestest ™ can't all come from PO, I thought they had the most fans in the country? Reckon they've got paranoid enough to start spying on everyone who signs up?

 

Oh well, seems strange to limit your own message board quite that much, but guess it's up to them how draconian to be. Or maybe I shouldn't use that word, a mod there probably had his ancestors killed by Draco of Athens and will need to go have a lie down.

 

I've learned to at least *try* not to judge people for their infirmities, goodness knows I'm far from perfect. On the other hand, allowing people to wind you up to the extent you have a 'meltdown' does look a bit childish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted
Its probably because its a feeling of injustice, they've got away with so much previously (and still whine about how unfair it all is) that we all want them to get their just desserts. I'd like nothing more than to see them on a tiny budget; but they won't be the first team who pay a pittance on a CVA (Crystal Palace recently paid 1p in the pound and didn't even get relegated).

 

It just highlights (yet again) for me that the rules for clubs going into administration just aren't tough enough. If there was a Rangers-esque outcome every time then a hell of a lot of clubs would surely be less likely to overspend so far beyond their means. 10 points is really nothing for turning £130M into £500,000, plus whatever CVA 2 was.

 

Personally... I believe the only MORAL and RIGHT way is for clubs to agree a repayment plan of 100% of all debt - even if over 20 years and cut their cloth accordingly - This money must and should be paid directly each month or is witheld by the FL and paid directly etc. Those clubs in this period of 'repayment' would need to be in th black all teh time or have their golden share removed - failure to comply and expulsion and in effct liquidation. Unfortunately, too many fans have the rose tinted romantic view that football is so important to the community that it is beyond nmormal business practice and ethical and moral codes... frankly its discusting a club can in effect write off so much debt and pay back as little as 1p in the £... There is simply NO argument for why a club should be allowed to do this and continue trading.

 

If a club really is THAT important to a community, it would see weekly sell outs and probably not have the financial problems so many do....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Personally... I believe the only MORAL and RIGHT way is for clubs to agree a repayment plan of 100% of all debt - even if over 20 years and cut their cloth accordingly - This money must and should be paid directly each month or is witheld by the FL and paid directly etc. Those clubs in this period of 'repayment' would need to be in th black all teh time or have their golden share removed - failure to comply and expulsion and in effct liquidation. Unfortunately, too many fans have the rose tinted romantic view that football is so important to the community that it is beyond nmormal business practice and ethical and moral codes... frankly its discusting a club can in effect write off so much debt and pay back as little as 1p in the £... There is simply NO argument for why a club should be allowed to do this and continue trading.

 

If a club really is THAT important to a community, it would see weekly sell outs and probably not have the financial problems so many do....

 

Something has to change. The -10 points was brought in to arrest the increase in club administrations we were seeing. Its has had little to no effect, we seem to have as many administrations as ever, nothing is improving.

 

Football does what it can in ensuring that football creditors are paid 100% of what they are owed (or not in Pompey's case); from a legal point I'm not sure how much more they could do in this regard, the laws of the land are being upheld, but there is the possibility as you suggest of withholding the golden share. I'd just prefer to see a system where you really get punished for administration; many clubs have got away with "just" ten points. We didn't, and really that's how it should be.

 

And you're right, there's far too much pressure put on the courts to save football clubs as they serve their community. So what? At worse there will always be a Phoenix club after liquidation. If enough of the community truly "need" a football club then they'll support the new initiative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted (edited)

well,seems that things are moving forwards down on the Island of Dr Moreau.

 

In fact looks like they are a step ahead and technology is speeding ahead of the rest of the UK.

 

In fact, our Dubai based spy ring can report that the PST are so serious about their Public Image they are going to no expense to boost their image.

 

In fact we can report that they have even commissioned a special photo shoot at Nottarf tomorrow.

 

Yep, the Mobility Scooted is getting an appropriate local upgrade

 

Dubai Saints are proud to bring our fellow nutjobs yet another PTS scoop of the PST arriving for their Press Conference

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2wlrrjs.jpg

Edited by dubai_phil
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Saint in Paradise

Saint in Paradise

Posted
Posted
Something has to change. The -10 points was brought in to arrest the increase in club administrations we were seeing. Its has had little to no effect, we seem to have as many administrations as ever, nothing is improving.

 

Football does what it can in ensuring that football creditors are paid 100% of what they are owed (or not in Pompey's case); from a legal point I'm not sure how much more they could do in this regard, the laws of the land are being upheld, but there is the possibility as you suggest of withholding the golden share. I'd just prefer to see a system where you really get punished for administration; many clubs have got away with "just" ten points. We didn't, and really that's how it should be.

 

And you're right, there's far too much pressure put on the courts to save football clubs as they serve their community. So what? At worse there will always be a Phoenix club after liquidation. If enough of the community truly "need" a football club then they'll support the new initiative.

 

Didn't a League club chairman suggest instant relegation as a deterrent a few months ago? Never heard how many agreed with it though from other clubs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Didn't a League club chairman suggest instant relegation as a deterrent a few months ago? Never heard how many agreed with it though from other clubs?

The thing is, would that definitely work? Say a club goes into admin in September and they're relegated; what's the point in continuing at 100% if you're already down? It could become a bit of a farce. -10 ensures clubs remain competitive throughout the bulk of the season; but also allow for clubs to effectively avoid punishment. I know the current system doesn't work, but also its tough to say what the alternative should be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stepgar

Stepgar

Posted
Posted
The thing is, would that definitely work? Say a club goes into admin in September and they're relegated; what's the point in continuing at 100% if you're already down? It could become a bit of a farce. -10 ensures clubs remain competitive throughout the bulk of the season; but also allow for clubs to effectively avoid punishment. I know the current system doesn't work, but also its tough to say what the alternative should be.

 

Well then it is embargoes, a higher points deduction and expulsion from the cups. Something like that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

Lol. From POL:

 

We have a huge fanbase.

 

What we don't have are many more than 1,000 who would walk through hell for the club.

 

We probably have 5 or 6 thousand who would do all they can for the club, of which a third have pledged. That's pretty good going.

 

This is why liquidation isn't the answer, we'd have very few fans most of which would be telling each other what great fans they are. It would be the end of the PFC most of us love and the start of a private members club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

And the laughs continue:

 

No, that's how you judge more ardent fans.

 

Man Utd have a fan base of millions - just because they don't all go to Old Trafford doesn't mean they're not fans.

 

If somebody buys a kit - they're a fan (or it's for a fan).

If somebody shows up to see the FA Cup parade - they're a fan.

If somebody listens to the game on the radio - they're a fan.

 

Attendance at FP is not a mandatory requirement to be a fan. Some people, god forbid, have lives that don't allow them to go to every game (if any). Some people may not even want to go, they might be quite content listening to that god awful coverage on Express every week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Well then it is embargoes, a higher points deduction and expulsion from the cups. Something like that?

 

Perhaps. I think definitely a higher points penalty, 15 at least. As for an embargo I'd worry it might be a bit draconian. I'm yet to hear someone come up with an idea where you think "yep, that's what they should do", which I guess is why we're where we are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Waterside.saint

Waterside.saint

Posted
Posted
Perhaps. I think definitely a higher points penalty, 15 at least. As for an embargo I'd worry it might be a bit draconian. I'm yet to hear someone come up with an idea where you think "yep, that's what they should do", which I guess is why we're where we are.

 

Still struggling to understand why they only got -10 for three goings bust & two all-but-failed CVAs

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Still struggling to understand why they only got -10 for three goings bust & two all-but-failed CVAs

 

This is it. CVA-1 failing was exactly the same as not agreeing a CVA. 10 points is an outrage for that. There is the argument that CVA-1 creditors may have agreed to a renegotiation of the terms of their repayment but I don't buy that, i think if you agree to a CVA in the first place its either honoured or it fails, there's no middle ground. Minus 15 at least is what they should have been docked, arguably a fair bit more. There should also have been an extra punishment for two administrations in such a short space of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ex Lion Tamer

Ex Lion Tamer

Posted
Posted

The problem is that the irresponsible owners are often long gone by the time the club goes into admin and faces points penalties. The only way to solve it is to stop clubs spending too much in the first place. That's why they're bringing in financial fair play, though it remains to be seen if it will work.

 

This is why American owners are buying clubs over here, it's because they love the free market way we run sports, where they can get away with anything. Ironically sports in America is massively regulated and virtually socialist

Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Eerie silence from PKF following the PST press conference.

 

Tucked away at the end of this BBC article earlier today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19092534

 

Birch issued a statement to BBC Sport on Thursday saying he welcomed news of the PST's bid and promised to work with it to "find a solution that will satisfy everyone".

"We welcome the Trust's announcement and will carefully study the details of the proposal," said the statement.

"Now that we all know more about the Trust's plans, we will work with them and Portpin to see if we can find a solution that will satisfy everyone involved, including the unsecured creditors and the Football League.

"As court-appointed officials, it is our duty to explore all of the available options.

"In the meantime we will continue to talk to the remaining players to secure the compromise agreements."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TopGun

TopGun

Posted
Posted

Birch issued a statement to BBC Sport on Thursday saying he welcomed news of the PST's bid and promised to work with it to "find a solution that will satisfy everyone".

 

"We welcome the Trust's announcement and will carefully study the details of the proposal," said the statement.

 

"Now that we all know more about the Trust's plans, we will work with them and Portpin to see if we can find a solution that will satisfy everyone involved, including the unsecured creditors and the Football League.

 

"As court-appointed officials, it is our duty to explore all of the available options.

 

"In the meantime we will continue to talk to the remaining players to secure the compromise agreements."

 

A ha! TB is now highlighting he is a court appointed official - thus backing away from being too close to Pompey!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

What is it with administrators that go to football clubs... does the 'fame' and rubbing shoulders with the stars feck with their brains? - They end up comming across like their primary responsibilty is the fans and community - to save a 'historic' institution... NO IT FECKIN ISN'T - the job is to get the very best for creditors, and if that means liquidation, they should be pushing for that. Yes there is an argument that if a business survives then thsi may be the best way for creditors to get money back, but only if the 'CVA' includes provision for future payments based on performance.

 

This is a law I would like to see happen across business - if it were legally possible - that if a company continues trading after and insolvency event, or a NewCo is created with the assets transferred, a percentage of any revenue genearted MUST be handed over to creditors for a set period of time - Would also like this to be introduced with individuals - those shyster 'small businessmen' that take folks cash and then the company folds, only for them to start up again doing the same business under a different name. Ltd companies protect the owners from company debt, and there is value in such a system, but it also creates a convenient loophole for those that have no business being in business, and are in effect con artists, setting up companies that they know will not last and leave many ****ed off creditors...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

@pn_neil_allen: #Pompey City Council say they will consider £1.45m short-term loan to help Trust buy Fratton Park off Portpin. http://t.co/4mTinuOy

 

"THE leader of Portsmouth City Council Gerald Vernon-Jackson says he will consider loaning taxpayers’ cash to help fans take over Pompey."

 

5284eee5-773b-e809.jpg

 

"He added a letter has been sent to the Premier League to request repayments to the council are guaranteed on future parachute payments."

 

Erm...aren't the players who's contracts have been dishonoured in front of you in the queue for they one...?

Edited by trousers
Link to comment
Share on other sites
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
@pn_neil_allen: #Pompey City Council say they will consider £1.45m short-term loan to help Trust buy Fratton Park off Portpin.

 

 

That would be the last they ever see of that. They had better try to get registered as football creditors ready for CVA3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Torres

Torres

Posted
Posted
The thing is, would that definitely work? Say a club goes into admin in September and they're relegated; what's the point in continuing at 100% if you're already down? It could become a bit of a farce. -10 ensures clubs remain competitive throughout the bulk of the season; but also allow for clubs to effectively avoid punishment. I know the current system doesn't work, but also its tough to say what the alternative should be.

 

I'd go further - instant relegation and a ban on promotion the following season. Yes, it might make the league a bit of a mess for the remainder of the season but it'd be one hell of a deterrent and I don't think it would happen very often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Torres

Torres

Posted
Posted

Well, that's that pretty dead then. Not only are the council only prepared to loan them a fraction of what they need to buy the ground from Chinny but they also want the PL to guarantee them first dibs on the PPs. The PL will never go for that because a) they'll rank football creditors first and b) making any guarantee to the council will ensure a legal challenge from a host of other creditors, with Chinny leadng the charge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

PORTSMOUTH North MP Penny Mordaunt has urged constituents to contact their local councillors and express their views on Pompey’s future.

 

It comes as the Pompey Supporters’ Trust revealed part of its proposals to take over the club includes a loan request to Portsmouth City Council of £1.45m.

 

Ms Mordaunt, who was at the trust’s press conference yesterday, believes the loan would pose ‘zero risk’ to the authority.

 

She said: ‘Most people might find it weird that a local authority might do what a bank might commonly do, but local authorities loan money to organisations and other local authorities all the time.

 

‘I think this is a really good investment and would yield more for our city than other things the council has done in the past. We’ve got a few days, so all councillors across our city, who will be alive to that fact that this is such an important issue to the people they represent, need to concentrate on this proposal.

 

Penny my dear...if it's such a low risk loan why don't you persuade one of the banks you part own and run to lend the money....no? I wonder why that is?

 

Low risk my arse.

 

If you wanna be a socialist then go and join the Labour Party FFS... ;-)

Edited by trousers
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

Still cannot believe for one minute that CHinny will agree to the deal as it stands.

 

In fact it gives him the perfect response from a PR perspective...

 

"The trust are limited in their funding so it is better for them to retain the 2.75mil to help secure the future of the club and I will rent them the stadium at a cost of 1mil a year fixed for 3 years (while the trust take responsibility for maintenance)"

 

His 18mil stays loaded on the club (by dint of never ending rent due) he retains an asset that he can leverage or sell on.

 

Nothing else would make any sense.

 

PST won't like it but as it gets closer to the 10th CHinny is the more experienced poker player

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted

Halford told Solent at the Aldershot friendly that 2 of the 3 players left have just about reached agreement to leave the club. He would not name the 2 but as Kanu is in dispute and not talking it must be the other 2!

 

Looks like the end game is approaching and I doubt it will be liquidation. They will emerge as a severely wounded club with a -10 and a bunch of trialists who are prepared to play for a song. Relegation next season and I will be happy they got what they deserved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brizzie Saints

Brizzie Saints

Posted
Posted (edited)
Is there a link to the PST proposal brochure? I may have missed it. Or is there a PDF available to see?

 

Ive got a copy on PDF, its f*ckin hysterical to read, cant upload it tho (too big) unless someone knows a way or where it could be hosted.

Edited by Brizzie Saints
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Waterside.saint

Waterside.saint

Posted
Posted
Halford told Solent at the Aldershot friendly that 2 of the 3 players left have just about reached agreement to leave the club. He would not name the 2 but as Kanu is in dispute and not talking it must be the other 2!

 

Looks like the end game is approaching and I doubt it will be liquidation. They will emerge as a severely wounded club with a -10 and a bunch of trialists who are prepared to play for a song. Relegation next season and I will be happy they got what they deserved.

 

If they can learn to live within their (admittedly limited) means that would do me, although I still believe they deserve to be wound up

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brizzie Saints

Brizzie Saints

Posted
Posted

OK.

 

A Community Pompey club will be underpinned by seven core values:

 

  • The club will aspire to play at the highest level of competition possible
  • The club will represent the City of Portsmouth with pride
  • Our supporters are the club. They will feel valued
  • The club will operate in an open and transparent way
  • The club will operate on sound financial principles
  • The club will be an active and integral member of the community
  • All the club’s representative sides will embody the finest of sporting values

This is our chance. It must not pass us by. We can be different. We can be distinctive. We can win. But only if we stand together.

This document outlines the proposed bid for Portsmouth Football Club by the Portsmouth Supporters’ Trust (PST). Detailed within this document are the financial forecasts of the trust, for the next three seasons, based on a list of assumptions also set out below.

[h=2]2 Proposal[/h]

PST is looking to acquire the business and assets of the club including, but not limited to:

· The property know as Fratton Park, unencumbered · Premises improvements · Plant and Machinery, computers and electronic equipment · Fixtures and Fittings · Stock on hand · The right to receive all parachute payments from the premier league · Players · Cash relating to season tickets sales for the 2012/13 season, plus any deposit received for future events · Future income relating to historic player sales

The purchase consideration for the business and assets will be payable as follows:

· On completion, £2.75m for the unencumbered freehold property know as Fratton Park · £1 for goodwill · £1 for all other assets · £850,000 as a contribution to the CVA, payable £500,000 within 60 days of completion and £350,000 payable on the first anniversary of completion · Payments of Football creditors as follows: (i) Full payment of monies owed to other clubs, assuming this amount does not exceed £1.75m (ii) Full payment of monies owed to non-playing staff, assuming this amount does not exceed £330,000 (iii) A maximum of £2m to the football players owed monies · An additional one off contribution of £3,000,000 to the football creditors in the event that Portsmouth FC is promoted to the FA Premier League any time before June 2022

[h=2]3 Key Assumptions[/h]

The figures are based on the following assumptions, which are vital to the success of the PST bid.

· The current high earning players will have left the club · The maximum cost for player salaries, including taxes and performance related pay is £2.65m per annum · The wage bill for non-playing staff can be reduced to £1.1m, including all taxes and bonuses · Portsmouth football club remain in Division One (third tier of English football) for the next three years. Although relegation to Division Two isn’t thought would have a significant impact on the finances of the club, with both revenue streams and costs falling only slightly · The average attendance for the 2012/13 season will be 11,500, with season ticket sales making up 7,500 of this (nb 7000 already sold as at 27 July 2012). [h=2]4 Investments[/h]

PST aims to have four types of investment, in order to raise the necessary funds for the bid. These four investments are detailed below. [h=2]4.1 Share Scheme[/h] Fans have been given the opportunity to purchase a share in the club for £1,000. In order to gauge the serious interest in this, an initial refundable pledge of £100 was required. PST is hopeful of raising over £2m through this scheme. With over £2m pledged by the end of June 2012, the forecasts have been prepared assuming a 75% take-up. The receipt of this cash by PST is likely to be the slowest source of funds out of all four types of investment. The forecast assumes this investment will be spread evenly over four months from September to December. [h=2]4.2 Associate Directors[/h] PST aim to recruit a number of fans prepared to pay a five figure sum to become an ‘Associate Director’. The forecast assumes £750,000 is raised through this form of investment. [h=2]4.3 High Net Worth Investors[/h] High Net Worth Investors (HNW) are a group of people who are each prepared to invest six figure sums into a community club. Whilst individually they are investing the largest amount, no one individual will have control of the club. The club will be a community club owned by all the fans that have invested. PST aim to raise £750,000 from HNW’s of which £630,000 has at 27 July 2012 already been subscribed in cash and is held in the Trust’s escrow account. This would become available to the trust within the first 30 days of completion. It should also be noted that some of the HNW’s have offered additional small loans, however as no firm arrangements yet to be made, this source of finance hasn’t been included in the forecasts, and is regarded as a safety net for source of short-term working capital for the club. [h=2]4.4 Loan[/h] To enable PST to purchase the ground, a medium term loan would be required. Unlike the other sources of investment, this is the only one that is geared towards generating a return for the investor in the short term. PST’s preferred supplier of this loan would be Portsmouth City Council, as this would enhance the ethos of a community club. As per the figures in this forecast, PST would require a facility of £1.5 million in order to purchase the ground, make the football creditor payments and fund necessary investments in the team and the ground, and to provide a measure of working capital headroom in 2012/13. It is likely that the council would be able to borrow this amount at a rate of between 0.5% and 2.0%. PST would be prepared to pay an interest rate of 4% on this loan, with repayment in one tranche from “parachute” payments due from the Premier League in 2013/14. The loan would be secured on the ground and by way of an assignment of the parachute payment due from the Premier League, thereby minimising ay risk to the Council.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...