dubai_phil Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 We're a mess. The squad is a mess. There are many "motivational management" reasons to keep quiet, especially in sport. However I think it is time that the new owners should start to let the fans know some of the reality of the mess that they inherited. Tell us about the never published accounts before Admin. Let us know WHY the players we have left seem to be terrified The healing process is always said to begin when you start accepting the truth and talking about things We're Saints fans, we know much of it. trust us and tell us the truth. Just how bad WAS it on the day you walked in and what the plans really are. The ST sales are in the bank, just for once, we might just understand and may just stop whingeing and start coming in more numbers. Are the kids REALLY that bad? Are they REALLY that naive? How many players do you think we REALLY need? Where are we REALLY hoping to end up this season? The truth is in there. Time to do an X files and get the truth OUT HERE so we AND the players can move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanovski Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 We're a mess. The squad is a mess. There are many "motivational management" reasons to keep quiet, especially in sport. However I think it is time that the new owners should start to let the fans know some of the reality of the mess that they inherited. Tell us about the never published accounts before Admin. Let us know WHY the players we have left seem to be terrified The healing process is always said to begin when you start accepting the truth and talking about things We're Saints fans, we know much of it. trust us and tell us the truth. Just how bad WAS it on the day you walked in and what the plans really are. The ST sales are in the bank, just for once, we might just understand and may just stop whingeing and start coming in more numbers. Are the kids REALLY that bad? Are they REALLY that naive? How many players do you think we REALLY need? Where are we REALLY hoping to end up this season? The truth is in there. Time to do an X files and get the truth OUT HERE so we AND the players can move on. And how much Pinnacle's "never gonna happen" takeover held us back. We are now suffering from a very disorganised close season and there are some who supported Pinnacle who should be asking themselves serious questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 well FF tell us the answers....which you say you know you have...(about pinnacle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 And how much Pinnacle's "never gonna happen" takeover held us back. We are now suffering from a very disorganised close season and there are some who supported Pinnacle who should be asking themselves serious questions. Sorry, so are you saying that from the very outset you never supported the Pinnacle bid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 August, 2009 And how much Pinnacle's "never gonna happen" takeover held us back. We are now suffering from a very disorganised close season and there are some who supported Pinnacle who should be asking themselves serious questions. FF, as I am sure you are aware by now, the Pinnacle debale is an excuse, not the reason. We dodn't have a close season and we lost Surman & DMG as a result, but my point is not JUST about them. From what I HEAR, the players are scared to death, the 1st half today was sideways football which ahsn't worked for the past 5 years. There is FAR more that WAS wrong than Pinnacle & Admin and somehow it has affected every fibre of the club. The new team need HELP to get us out the rut. We are here, we are fans, we are ready to help, but we need to know the facts and talk about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 TDD..,...is it not obvious to you?..Pinnacle never had any substantial funds. Look at that clown Fialka: still living at home with mummy and daddy yet he was the front person for the consortium and many on here said they were impressed with him!!!!! We had no real pre-season and are paying the price. Bringing in a new team a week or two before the start of the season will do us no good. Norwich brought in 7 new players and look what is happening to them! Pinnacle were chancers and beacuse they had MLT as a figurehead everyone swooned and forgave them. You would have thought people on here would have thought twice before thanking Lynam for constantly posting on here. Seem to remember another chancer doing that and look where we got to. And MLT should have done at least some due diligence before throwing his weight behind Pinnacle. Because MLT was involved people were not prepared to ask tough questions. Long, long season ahead....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Lynam's the one to blame, you can guarantee he gave Le Tiss the same bull**** he gave us. He needs a good kickin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 FF, as I am sure you are aware by now, the Pinnacle debale is an excuse, not the reason. We dodn't have a close season and we lost Surman & DMG as a result, but my point is not JUST about them. From what I HEAR, the players are scared to death, the 1st half today was sideways football which ahsn't worked for the past 5 years. There is FAR more that WAS wrong than Pinnacle & Admin and somehow it has affected every fibre of the club. The new team need HELP to get us out the rut. We are here, we are fans, we are ready to help, but we need to know the facts and talk about it When is the solent forum? I agree it would be interesting to raise these points and the ones in your original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS1980 Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Also the scouting problems, didn't AP say he had no reports on Swindon to use for tonights game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silversaint Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Give it time, Pardew knows its going to be tough, if anyone was expecting anything other than survival this year they were being optimistic. Fortunately we have had this happen at the start of the season which allows us time to invest in a couple of new players before the window shuts. As soon as Pardew gets a squad he's happy with we will start turning it around. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that. I know its difficult considering where we were 5 years ago but we are in this position so it's pointless moaning. We need to get behind the team and look to build a team around players like Davis, Lambert, Morgan etc. Lets count ourselves lucky that we still have a club to support as it wasn't looking likely at one stage. Think what the fans of Wimbledon have had to go through, you know every single one of them would swap their position for ours right now so we may as well get behind the players we've got. COYR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 We're a mess. The squad is a mess. There are many "motivational management" reasons to keep quiet, especially in sport. However I think it is time that the new owners should start to let the fans know some of the reality of the mess that they inherited. Tell us about the never published accounts before Admin. Let us know WHY the players we have left seem to be terrified The healing process is always said to begin when you start accepting the truth and talking about things We're Saints fans, we know much of it. trust us and tell us the truth. Just how bad WAS it on the day you walked in and what the plans really are. The ST sales are in the bank, just for once, we might just understand and may just stop whingeing and start coming in more numbers. Are the kids REALLY that bad? Are they REALLY that naive? How many players do you think we REALLY need? Where are we REALLY hoping to end up this season? The truth is in there. Time to do an X files and get the truth OUT HERE so we AND the players can move on. You've had a miraculous conversion since this morning when you had all of the answers! However, I agree a little bit of frankness would be welcome, and an interview with ML or NC with a clear plan for the immediate, medium and long term would help. I feel that people like you Phil (no disrespect intended) have been telling me what will happen and how great it is, when you have no idea really. So this seems very "unreal" almost as if you're not allowed to suggest things are not right or need changing. Almost as if ML is the messiah with AP the anointed one and non believers are Judas. Well smell the coffee, this is Saints and we are rubbish, and miles behind at the bottom of div 1 with less than 2 weeks to rebuild this team. I for one will not be making excuses for AP and co. They are well paid and need to get their fingers out and prove they're worth it! COYR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitalsaint Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 I personally think that every fan should watch the documentary about laporta taking over at barcelona. The first half of their season was terrible, by their standards, and there are many similarities to our situation (ie new owners, manager, and trying to fix a system that has long been infected). If i wasn't a poor student i'd start a new thread about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 It may be a long long season ahead, but at least we have a Chairman who is many times more successful and wealthy than the last one. You don't become worth 2.5 billion without being more than quite good. The fact of the matter is that our last Chairman (or previous ones for that matter) didn't have the will or ability to invest. I am sure ML will do what is required. We have been going downhill for 5 years and it takes time to turn that around. If people's expectations were just to stay up and consolidate this season, then we have stabilised and can then build on from there. Norwich came down with us, bought 7 players and have achieved exactly the same....actually worse if you look at goal difference. OK, we're on -9 now, but come January, if we are still in the proverbial, ML will make the required funds available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Also the scouting problems, didn't AP say he had no reports on Swindon to use for tonights game. An unbelieveable situation really - you can see why we are such a shambles and how much work there is to do at all levels in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 TDD..,...is it not obvious to you?..Pinnacle never had any substantial funds. Look at that clown Fialka: still living at home with mummy and daddy yet he was the front person for the consortium and many on here said they were impressed with him!!!!! We had no real pre-season and are paying the price. Bringing in a new team a week or two before the start of the season will do us no good. Norwich brought in 7 new players and look what is happening to them! Pinnacle were chancers and beacuse they had MLT as a figurehead everyone swooned and forgave them. You would have thought people on here would have thought twice before thanking Lynam for constantly posting on here. Seem to remember another chancer doing that and look where we got to. And MLT should have done at least some due diligence before throwing his weight behind Pinnacle. Because MLT was involved people were not prepared to ask tough questions. Long, long season ahead....... Agree 100% Micky I supported Pinnacle at the outset mainly because of MLT. I since feel very let down. Hope that answers your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddick Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 I have had enough of beating around the bush. The old administration are to blame for the problems up to the administration period. The new administration saved the club and are doing their best. Pinnacle and all who were strongly involved with it, knowing it was a hiding to nothing, are to blame for the current mess. If we had had a pre-season and we had tonight's result I would wholeheartedly blame the team but we didn't. That Pinnacle bid has cost us so, so dear. If after the transfer window and when there has been several breathing spaces between matches for Pardew to act and results are the same then the fault will lie with the team and management. Tonight everyone under-performed and the reason is total lack of preparation. Total and complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Don't despair two bad results a whole season to get it right, the past has gone the future is the real concern. I have no idea if we have the right manager or the right players, however I am optimistic it will turn and we will be out of danger by Christmas. All the breast beating will achieve nothing except despondancy, it will not bring confidence to either the team , supporters or the management. We are NOT planning to fail, we will improve before long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Also the scouting problems, didn't AP say he had no reports on Swindon to use for tonights game. Christ doesn't AP have any contacts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Christ doesn't AP have any contacts? it was Swindon not ****ing Hartlepool!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Talking of unanswered questions.....I would still like to know the circumstances behind this chain of events: Dec 08: WH Ireland recommends Begbies Traynor as a 'one to watch' in their end of year report Apr 09: Barclays (c/o Richard Fry) force Southampton Leisure Holdings to call in the administrators (cue Mark Fry from a certain Begbies Traynor) Jul 09: Mark Fry sees out a protracted c.100 day administration period at around the same time that Richard Fry (Barclays) joins Begbies Traynor (not before his profile was mysteriously removed from their website upon this being 'discovered' by people on here) All very curious IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Talking of unanswered questions.....I would still like to know the circumstances behind this chain of events: Dec 08: WH Ireland recommends Begbies Traynor as a 'one to watch' in their end of year report . Surely any company that works with companies in administration is going to make lots of money in a recession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 (edited) Surely any company that works with companies in administration is going to make lots of money in a recession Indeed. So why single out just one company? Three months before engaging them to administer one of your other companies? I'm not suggesting anything sinister. Just pointing out the obvious in that is seems a bit curious. Edited 18 August, 2009 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Indeed. So why single out just one company? Three months before engaging them to administer another one of your other companies? I'm not suggesting anything sinister. Just pointing out the obvious in that is seems a bit curious. Dont know the details but there is usually a simple explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Saint Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Some bad voodoo sh*t has been happening at St Marys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 the kids aren't that good - at least no where near as good as some peole thought they were - well not the ones that are left anyway Matt Mills, Walcott, Bale and Cranie were the pick of them - but they've been gone for a while lets not forget Best, Blackstock, McGoldrick, Dyer and Surman has also left James, Lallana, Thomson, Paterson, Lancashire simply aren't as good they've also been all but destroyed by being thrown into the first team far too much and far too soon - with for the most part a few old has beens for support unless they are a Rooney or an Owen they should not be playing week in week out until they are 22/23 at 19/20 players have still got a lot to learn, and a lot of growing to do both physically and mentally - not to mention tactically and technically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 It's taken years to get into this mess. It's not going to be turned round in a couple of weeks, and certainly not with some of the players that have been party to the mess. When does the transfer window close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Army Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Talking of unanswered questions.....I would still like to know the circumstances behind this chain of events: Dec 08: WH Ireland recommends Begbies Traynor as a 'one to watch' in their end of year report Apr 09: Barclays (c/o Richard Fry) force Southampton Leisure Holdings to call in the administrators (cue Mark Fry from a certain Begbies Traynor) Jul 09: Mark Fry sees out a protracted c.100 day administration period at around the same time that Richard Fry (Barclays) joins Begbies Traynor (not before his profile was mysteriously removed from their website upon this being 'discovered' by people on here) All very curious IMHO. Trousers, this is a complete non event. WH Ireland are stockbrokers, their job is to issue reports and opinions on the companies they cover. They make hundreds (probably thousands) of recommendations every year. The recommendations would be issued by analysts, and go through all the usual compliance and research checks. None of this has anything at all to do with Rupert Lowe who was on the board of directors. The analysts are paid to cover their companies, and it is hardly a stretch to expect increased profits for administrators in a severe recession! You're only curious because you don't really understand what stockbrokers so and how the dynamics of the firm work - from someone who works in financial services and utilities a couple of dozen sell-side brokerages I can assure you there is nothing untoward or even suspicious about this. I would be less sure when refuting your third point, as I have no idea how competently Mark Fry handled the administration process. From the outside peering in, it doesn't seem to have been smooth or effective, but it is all speculation and hearsay rather than facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 And how much Pinnacle's "never gonna happen" takeover held us back. We are now suffering from a very disorganised close season and there are some who supported Pinnacle who should be asking themselves serious questions. Once again that is the whole crux of the issue. IF Phil's analysis is correct then all the uncertainity and disappointment is IMO down to the Pinnacle bid and ALL those involved and until everyone comes clean about their involvement seeing the likes of some of these people swan around as if nothing happened it's difficult to take, especially when the abuse has already started to fly at Pardew and presumably a back hander to those who appointed him. The club itself is in a good position, no debt, a clean slate and some impressive people on the board. Some of the fanbase though are an utter shambles and clearly expected us to cakewalk a league on -10pts and effectively no pre-season to shape and build a team like 23 of our opponents. Completely unrealistic and an example of heads in sand as you'll ever likely to find anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Give it time, Pardew knows its going to be tough, if anyone was expecting anything other than survival this year they were being optimistic. Fortunately we have had this happen at the start of the season which allows us time to invest in a couple of new players before the window shuts. As soon as Pardew gets a squad he's happy with we will start turning it around. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that. I know its difficult considering where we were 5 years ago but we are in this position so it's pointless moaning. We need to get behind the team and look to build a team around players like Davis, Lambert, Morgan etc. Lets count ourselves lucky that we still have a club to support as it wasn't looking likely at one stage. Think what the fans of Wimbledon have had to go through, you know every single one of them would swap their position for ours right now so we may as well get behind the players we've got. COYR. Good post that just needs to tell those fans seemingly starting to lose the plot after 3 games where to channel their anger. Just hope I'm not taking le tiss by assuming they know where to start asking questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 It may be a long long season ahead, but at least we have a Chairman who is many times more successful and wealthy than the last one. You don't become worth 2.5 billion without being more than quite good. The fact of the matter is that our last Chairman (or previous ones for that matter) didn't have the will or ability to invest. I am sure ML will do what is required. We have been going downhill for 5 years and it takes time to turn that around. If people's expectations were just to stay up and consolidate this season, then we have stabilised and can then build on from there. Norwich came down with us, bought 7 players and have achieved exactly the same....actually worse if you look at goal difference. OK, we're on -9 now, but come January, if we are still in the proverbial, ML will make the required funds available. I think this reliance / hope on ML is a red herring and one the fans need to drop as it fosters the wrong expectations. IMO ML will only use profits the club generates for squad strenghthening and if your logic was correct he would surely have already given Pardew £5m to get who he wants as oppose to scratching around in the main for loans and freebies. The Liebherr empire was built on the concept of only spend what you earn and that loans are to be avoided as they are viewed as a gamble. I don't think ML will change from the concept just to bail the club out and it is critical the fans carry on supporting and don't walk away as some misguided / unconscious move to blackmail our owner to provide funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Saint Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Trousers, this is a complete non event. WH Ireland are stockbrokers, their job is to issue reports and opinions on the companies they cover. They make hundreds (probably thousands) of recommendations every year. The recommendations would be issued by analysts, and go through all the usual compliance and research checks. None of this has anything at all to do with Rupert Lowe who was on the board of directors. The analysts are paid to cover their companies, and it is hardly a stretch to expect increased profits for administrators in a severe recession! You're only curious because you don't really understand what stockbrokers so and how the dynamics of the firm work - from someone who works in financial services and utilities a couple of dozen sell-side brokerages I can assure you there is nothing untoward or even suspicious about this. I would be less sure when refuting your third point, as I have no idea how competently Mark Fry handled the administration process. From the outside peering in, it doesn't seem to have been smooth or effective, but it is all speculation and hearsay rather than facts. Correct, some people are way too suspicious. Swindon beat us 1-nil tonight, not Fry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Some bad voodoo sh*t has been happening at St Marys. LOL and Trousers is looking for a seat cover with the alleged impression of Lowe's backside bulging with folding and the sacred feminine who kept telling us about their father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST Randy Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 LOL and Trousers is looking for a seat cover with the alleged impression of Lowe's backside bulging with folding and the sacred feminine who kept telling us about their father. Isn't this now the time for all true supporters to get behind the club?? To start now to make snide references to another one of your hate figures, Mary Corbett, is just pathetic. You are a sad individual who should just grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Trousers, this is a complete non event. WH Ireland are stockbrokers, their job is to issue reports and opinions on the companies they cover. They make hundreds (probably thousands) of recommendations every year. The recommendations would be issued by analysts, and go through all the usual compliance and research checks. None of this has anything at all to do with Rupert Lowe who was on the board of directors. The analysts are paid to cover their companies, and it is hardly a stretch to expect increased profits for administrators in a severe recession! You're only curious because you don't really understand what stockbrokers so and how the dynamics of the firm work - from someone who works in financial services and utilities a couple of dozen sell-side brokerages I can assure you there is nothing untoward or even suspicious about this. I admire your faith and trust in the kind of people that have oiled the wheels of the worlds financial institutions over the last few years... Me? I'm more than happy with my levels of curiosty... Never did any harm to my pussy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 I think this reliance / hope on ML is a red herring and one the fans need to drop as it fosters the wrong expectations. IMO ML will only use profits the club generates for squad strenghthening and if your logic was correct he would surely have already given Pardew £5m to get who he wants as oppose to scratching around in the main for loans and freebies.. Granted he has and will not just throw money at the problem, but if we are in the proverbial at xmas, he won't stand idly by. Relegation will be seen as a failure and people like ML don't do failure. The Liebherr empire was built on the concept of only spend what you earn and that loans are to be avoided as they are viewed as a gamble. I don't think ML will change from the concept just to bail the club out I agree to an extent whereby he isn't going to throw sack loads of cash at the club, but at the end of the day, you don't buy a club like Saints in the state that it was without expecting to spend something. It is akin to buying an old derelict house, whereby due diligence was like a full structural survey. To restore it to its former glory you have to invest something as you can't live in it if the roof is leaking. it is critical the fans carry on supporting and don't walk away as some misguided / unconscious move to blackmail our owner to provide funds. We have got a big name manager (proven in this league) and have made some good signings - Lambert could be the signing of the season in this league and that is before considering that hanging on to KD looks like the second best. On top of that, we have got a few more to come and it is quite refreshing to look at who we will be signing rather than who we will be selling. Why would the fans walk away at this stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 (edited) Agree 100% Micky I supported Pinnacle at the outset mainly because of MLT. I since feel very let down. Hope that answers your question. And so did virtually everybody else on here, but suddenly we have the "I am ITK and I knew from Day One that Pinnacle were just tyre-kickers" mob coming on here and re-writing history just like they did after the "Saints Go Wilde" fiasco. We all started having doubts when things dragged on, but Fialka was only put on show at the end of, or just after the period of exclusivity officially ended. Hind-sight is a wonderful thing isn`t it? Make you feel really important doesn`t it? This isn`t aimed at FF particularly, there are plenty on here who fit the bill! Edited 19 August, 2009 by miserableoldgit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August, 2009 OK MM - as I mentioned before I was helping MJ's bid, so I did not have a one day conversion to understand how BIG a mess the club was in BEFORE Admin, or the panic during the Pinnacle phase. That is why I have been preaching that the recovery will take time. My "CONVERSION" is now that I feel it is time that the story is told by the CLUB, not by leaks, nudges or winks from NDA supplied information. Others mention the damage done to the youngsters by being pushed to play before they were mentally, emotionally, tactically and even physically ready Others mention the delay to pre-season caused by Pinnacle Others mention the mess of our scouting system. I would add to that the shortage of FOOTBALL people in the club Others have mentioned the issues NC is having with credit lines etc So, this is NOT about putting forward my own pet solutions, I am actually EXTREMELY impressed by how the new management are pulling the club BACK together. But I think that a lot of the knee-jerk reactions by fans would be eased, and a lot of the pressure on the players (which seems to be scaring them to death) could be alleviated by our own equivalent of a "Truth & Reconciliation" Commission. Everyone of us knows that the club is recovering from a near terminal illness. One thing about being a fan of House is that it is always helpful to know WHAT the whole extent of the disease and it's symptoms really was. So - my opinion is the same, recovery from ALL the damage done in the past 6 years will take at least one year, and we should be ECSTATIC that this will be the case. Rather than as now, many fans being in a state of shock that we are not already top of the table ready for automatic promotion. Some information will go a long way to help. The interim accounts and the destruction of the backroom staff up to Admin may be a start. It may be Lowe's fault, it may not, but at LEAST we will understand how much surgery/physio/care and TLC we all need. In plain English - NC give all the fans all the facts Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 We're a mess. The squad is a mess. There are many "motivational management" reasons to keep quiet, especially in sport. However I think it is time that the new owners should start to let the fans know some of the reality of the mess that they inherited. Tell us about the never published accounts before Admin. Let us know WHY the players we have left seem to be terrified The healing process is always said to begin when you start accepting the truth and talking about things We're Saints fans, we know much of it. trust us and tell us the truth. Just how bad WAS it on the day you walked in and what the plans really are. The ST sales are in the bank, just for once, we might just understand and may just stop whingeing and start coming in more numbers. Are the kids REALLY that bad? Are they REALLY that naive? How many players do you think we REALLY need? Where are we REALLY hoping to end up this season? The truth is in there. Time to do an X files and get the truth OUT HERE so we AND the players can move on. I think you summed it up when you said KIDS. There are far too many young players in the squad and although James and Morgan played most of last season, the rest have only a handful of games between them. Our "success" with KIDS in the distant past has been in bringing in ONE, perhaps TWO into a well-organised, reasonably successful and EXPERIENCED sides, and slowly develop around " older heads." Go back as far as you like but players like; Channon, Stokes, Nick Holmes, Steve Williams, the Wallaces, Shearer, MLT. etc etc, Bridge .....came into f. good sides and had time to settle in. Most of them only played a few times for the first 1-2 seasons before becoming established. Many of the present crop got rave reviews .....at an U18 / Reserve level........the real world of League 1 is something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Unfortunately the mess we are in makes another relegation more likely. That is why I agree that the facts about the "state we are in" needs to be communicated by the Club. Lowe cost us the 10 point deduction this season and his "play cheap youth" policy brought about relegation. Pinnacle then wasted valuable time that should have been spent by the new regime preparing for this season. We therefore have a squad demoralised and short of suitable players. Just staying up in League 1 is the best we can hope for this season. Let us get realistic. Long term our prospects are very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August, 2009 I think you summed it up when you said KIDS. There are far too many young players in the squad and although James and Morgan played most of last season, the rest have only a handful of games between them. Our "success" with KIDS in the distant past has been in bringing in ONE, perhaps TWO into a well-organised, reasonably successful and EXPERIENCED sides, and slowly develop around " older heads." Go back as far as you like but players like; Channon, Stokes, Nick Holmes, Steve Williams, the Wallaces, Shearer, MLT. etc etc, Bridge .....came into f. good sides and had time to settle in. Most of them only played a few times for the first 1-2 seasons before becoming established. Many of the present crop got rave reviews .....at an U18 / Reserve level........the real world of League 1 is something else. Another critical question to ask is WTF does the Academy TEACH these players? We were told they play a fluid system 4-2-3-1 or something (you cannot pigeonhole young kids etc) And yet 75% of all football is still played 4-4-2 It is clear we lack any width in the team, yet the kids have had 6+ years of intensive coaching in a style that doesn't use wide players? The Academy should be a production line for the players the TEAM needs trained in the formation the TEAM needs. Not used as it has been as a profit earning share dividend creating "incremental revenue stream" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Unfortunately the mess we are in makes another relegation more likely. That is why I agree that the facts about the "state we are in" needs to be communicated by the Club. Lowe cost us the 10 point deduction this season and his "play cheap youth" policy brought about relegation. Pinnacle then wasted valuable time that should have been spent by the new regime preparing for this season. We therefore have a squad demoralised and short of suitable players. Just staying up in League 1 is the best we can hope for this season. Let us get realistic. Long term our prospects are very good. The perfect example of why the FACTS should be made public. This is the perceived wisdom, (by all of us) but is it actually all true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 And how much Pinnacle's "never gonna happen" takeover held us back. We are now suffering from a very disorganised close season and there are some who supported Pinnacle who should be asking themselves serious questions. Perhaps it's time for the Tony Lienam memoirs ... ????:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Once again that is the whole crux of the issue. IF Phil's analysis is correct then all the uncertainity and disappointment is IMO down to the Pinnacle bid and ALL those involved and until everyone comes clean about their involvement seeing the likes of some of these people swan around as if nothing happened it's difficult to take, especially when the abuse has already started to fly at Pardew and presumably a back hander to those who appointed him. The club itself is in a good position, no debt, a clean slate and some impressive people on the board. Some of the fanbase though are an utter shambles and clearly expected us to cakewalk a league on -10pts and effectively no pre-season to shape and build a team like 23 of our opponents. Completely unrealistic and an example of heads in sand as you'll ever likely to find anywhere. Do we know if Crouch helped Pinnacle with the deposit as a loan or gift or at all? I dont doubt Crouch had the best interests of the club at heart, but would he not have recognised that the Swiss bid was far more likely to succeed? Why give Pinnacle the chance by fronting the cash? Why not recognise the Swiss bid as the only realistic option and allow it to go ahead? I just dont see how someone would front 500k without seeing the deal in writing. If It was the only way to save the club but was independent of any bid, I could see how that would be a generous proposition, but given we have been told the Swiss literally missed out by minutes surely Fry would have let Crouch know this was in the offing and given the wealth and seriousness of their bid , was Crouch bailing out pinnacle with the deposit necessary? I know this is going to be controvercial, but it does lead to speculation that maybe Crouch backed that particular horse because it may have meant he stayed involved in some way - which was as we have seen not going to be the case when the Swiss broom came in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 The perfect example of why the FACTS should be made public. This is the perceived wisdom, (by all of us) but is it actually all true? Dubai phil, what alternative wisdom is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Do we know if Crouch helped Pinnacle with the deposit as a loan or gift or at all? I dont doubt Crouch had the best interests of the club at heart, but would he not have recognised that the Swiss bid was far more likely to succeed? Why give Pinnacle the chance by fronting the cash? Why not recognise the Swiss bid as the only realistic option and allow it to go ahead? I just dont see how someone would front 500k without seeing the deal in writing. If It was the only way to save the club but was independent of any bid, I could see how that would be a generous proposition, but given we have been told the Swiss literally missed out by minutes surely Fry would have let Crouch know this was in the offing and given the wealth and seriousness of their bid , was Crouch bailing out pinnacle with the deposit necessary? I know this is going to be controvercial, but it does lead to speculation that maybe Crouch backed that particular horse because it may have meant he stayed involved in some way - which was as we have seen not going to be the case when the Swiss broom came in? Again FC my point assumed knowledge vs The Real Story - DID Crouch actually front up the cash? The battle scars are still very new, the lack of trust by the fans in the club is still very real, and the pain of continual glossing over another worst ever performance is still there. So, rather than more ITK leaks, what REALLY happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 The truth is that that we have no leaders on the pitch. Hopefully Hammond and a robust centre back can turn this around. A verbal leader not accepting half hearted performances around him is what this club has lacked for years. Also it is time to stop the academy hype. Saints academy's potential stars have all gone, as noted earlier those left are mediocre at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 And so did virtually everybody else on here, but suddenly we have the "I am ITK and I knew from Day One that Pinnacle were just tyre-kickers" mob coming on here and re-writing history just like they did after the "Saints Go Wilde" fiasco. We all started having doubts when things dragged on, but Fialka was only put on show at the end of, or just after the period of exclusivity officially ended. Hind-sight is a wonderful thing isn`t it? Make you feel really important doesn`t it? This isn`t aimed at FF particularly, there are plenty on here who fit the bill! You say hindsight MoG but I actually had "words" with MLT re Pinnacle's authenticity before (before I repeat) the announcement came they were pulling out and at the time posted stuff on here to back up my doubts. That got me into a lot of trouble and I was threatened with the police. Don't think I am one of your Johnny come lately blame Pinnacle brigade. I smelt a rat as soon as Tony Lynam began posting inconsistencies on here and Matt and Leon were photographed with KK. (What was that all about?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Again FC my point assumed knowledge vs The Real Story - DID Crouch actually front up the cash? The battle scars are still very new, the lack of trust by the fans in the club is still very real, and the pain of continual glossing over another worst ever performance is still there. So, rather than more ITK leaks, what REALLY happened? Do you think this will ever come out Phil? I just see the new owner concentrating on teh future unfortunately!! Think we just need to survive this year and hit next season running! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Dubai phil, what alternative wisdom is there? Lol - then I would be making the OP irrelevant! This thread per se isn't about our opinions or perceived knowledge, they've been posted by all of us until even we get bored. My point is really is that it would be helpful to the fans to know what really went on. Perhaps it is the tructh, was deliberate, perhaps it was outside interference, perhaps he was waiting for Godot, perhaps his return and the Dutch was his revenge on all of us, perhaps it was an inspired choice that was unlucky. I just used it as an example of part of the WHOLE story that needs to be told The people involved will know the story, time to write the book, sell it to the NotW or whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.29e38131fa8680ec93d955d1d4052a3d.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now