Vindication...

[Legod Third Coming]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~1824943,00.html

 

Well done to all those who spotted these two as stars early in the season...

[RedAndWhite91]

Wotton looks like an excited child in that picture.

[Glasgow_Saint]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~1824943,00.html

 

Well done to all those who spotted these two as stars early in the season...

 

Thank you

[Thedelldays]

Both have done well as the season goes along

both young still, both have great futures ahead and both very talented

 

fair play to them. Hope it continues.

[krissyboy31]

http://saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17226

[Legod Third Coming]

http://saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17226

 

Ah, apols looked for a thread, been a long day!!!!

[Saint_clark]

Thanks very much.

And Delldays, fair play for admitting you were wrong.

[dubai_phil]

http://saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17226

 

I just get some advert explaining why the women in Rock Bottom are all fat?

[Saint Fan CaM]

Oh dear, another better supporter than you thread.

[SaintBobby]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~1824943,00.html

 

Well done to all those who spotted these two as stars early in the season...

 

Your congratulations are noted and accepted.

[SaintRobbie]

I wonder if they'd have been in 'Team of the Week' under Wotte?

 

... no I think not.

 

Well done to all those who helped remove the last regime! Vindicated!

[shurlock]

Bearing in mind the team of the week accolade, will be interested to see if Schneiderlin starts against Oldham or if Mellis comes back in. Its three from Wotton, Hammond, Mellis and Schneiderlin. Personally, I'd like to see Perry try Wotton's role but failing that just start Hammond, Mellis and Schneiderlin, even away from home.

[Legod Third Coming]

Oh dear, another better supporter than you thread.

 

I was thinking more 'better football judge' than you thread...

[chivvy1664]

thay have had a couple of decent games. Lets not get carried away. Lets hope they remain consistent. i think we are a better team which also is helping.

[alpine_saint]

Whilst Lallana is currently blowing his critics (such as myself) out of the water with his performances, I am not convinced that Schneiderlin is the sort of player we need.

 

I accept that he has improved the last few games, but I am having trouble dispelling my recollections of how bloody ineffective he was at the beginning of the season.

 

What the hell, a couple of more wins and I'll probably be convinced too ;-)

[NickG]

why?

if so many watching him have been impressed, Pardew raving about him in the last game saying he was class above etc??

 

He has struggled with consistency and disappears (Pardew said same) but if he maintains 80% of the form he can he will be excellent for us in this league.

[RedAndWhite91]

Whilst Lallana is currently blowing his critics (such as myself) out of the water with his performances, I am not convinced that Schneiderlin is the sort of player we need.

 

I accept that he has improved the last few games, but I am having trouble dispelling my recollections of how bloody ineffective he was at the beginning of the season.

 

What the hell, a couple of more wins and I'll probably be convinced too ;-)

 

I am convinced that Schneiderlin is the sort of player that we need, he has definitlely become a bit of an unsung hero in our midfield, whilst his play is not all-out 'look at me' stylee, he does the job, spreads the ball well, and overall has had a great past few weeks. I am also convinced he will go from strength to strength as we climb the table.

[West End Saint]

Both players have skill & ability way above the standard they are playing in I have always thought Morgan is proper player his passing is 1st class & I have always thought that Lallana is a gifted very skillfull player.

 

In the past I have been critical of Lallana for being ineffective but fair play to both players & to AP for getting the end product from them long may it continue.

 

At Southend both had very good games particularly Lallana second half in really bad conditions he got the ball held onto it and caused all sorts of problems for Southend he was my MOM.

 

We have got a good team and the players around these two are now of a much better standard than we had this is helping them make the most of there talents again AP deserves a lot of credit for the players brought in.

[alpine_saint]

I am convinced that Schneiderlin is the sort of player that we need, he has definitlely become a bit of an unsung hero in our midfield, whilst his play is not all-out 'look at me' stylee, he does the job, spreads the ball well, and overall has had a great past few weeks. I am also convinced he will go from strength to strength as we climb the table.

 

I just think "Matt Oakley" when I read that, and I didnt rate him much either.

[Chez]

I'd like to see Perry try Wotton's role

oh dear

[rallyboy]

player of the season, manager of the month, yes - but a League One team of the week?

Nice to be included but let's not get too excited about a thinly-veiled attempt at thrusting fizzy pop further down our throats.

[corky morris]

I think Morgan is a class act. He makes mistakes, no doubt, but he sees a pass well before most of our players & makes himmself available anywhere on the park.

For me possession of the ball makes it impossible for the opposition to score - I think he is our best player in that kind of environment.

Lallana has always had loads of potential. I remember the finish at the baggies & thought the boy can play.

Lets hope they can maintain their current form.

Although a wet day in Oldham might make a difference - cant wait until Saturday!

[Chez]

I just think "Matt Oakley" when I read that, and I didnt rate him much either.

 

Did you see Schneiderlin's first league game for Saints. You could see immediately that the guy was two footed, had a great first touch, had vision, confidence on the ball, great composure and could get about the pitch at a decent rate. Missing attributes were tackling, heading, shooting, grit and fight. If you saw his first game this season you will have noticed that he has added tackling and a bit more grit

[NickG]

quite simply good young players who will go a lot further in their career, without doubt.

 

young players often lose form, or disappear in games.

 

Schneiderlin came to a new country last year, as 18 year old, and joined a club in chaos.

 

We are lucky to have both.

[Guest flickjax]

quite simply good young players who will go a lot further in their career, without doubt.

 

young players often lose form, or disappear in games.

 

Schneiderlin came to a new country last year, as 18 year old, and joined a club in chaos.

 

We are lucky to have both.

 

Great post and well said.....

 

Alpine I would be happy for another Matt Oakley right now

[SFC Forever]

quite simply good young players who will go a lot further in their career, without doubt.

 

young players often lose form, or disappear in games.

 

Schneiderlin came to a new country last year, as 18 year old, and joined a club in chaos.

 

We are lucky to have both.

 

Agree wholeheartedly. Just wish we could have kept Drew as well.

[david in sweden]

Wotton looks like an excited child in that picture.

 

Nah, he's just happy for the children in the team !!

[SFC Forever]

Nah, he's just happy for the children in the team !!

 

I thought he looked like a very happy parent with his kids.

[derry]

The two are playing better because they have more space now that Waigo is opening up defences with the threat of his pace and ability to get goals.

 

Lallana always had the ability on the ball but it was wasted in midfield causing poor performances. He is a different proposition altogether as a forward now the room is there and the goals are flowing. I hope he stays up front.

 

Another wide left player would open up things even more rather than a holding midfielder. If we are going to play that way I would like to see us maybe play Hammond there and play Schneiderlin + 1 or get in a good passing holding midfielder.

[opthomps]

I did, it was always obvious they are class. They just need to play in a good system with better players than they were previously playing with - and voila its starting to finally come good. Long way to go still though.

[suewhistle]

Did you see Schneiderlin's first league game for Saints. You could see immediately that the guy was two footed, had a great first touch, had vision, confidence on the ball, great composure and could get about the pitch at a decent rate. Missing attributes were tackling, heading, shooting, grit and fight. If you saw his first game this season you will have noticed that he has added tackling and a bit more grit

 

Yep, saw him up at Huddersfield (quite a drive from Italy!) and although we were generally crap he _can_ tackle and use his height to head the ball, it's just that it isn't the major feature of his game. Definitely quality and he's still young and, not a quality to be underated, not an Academy dwarf.

[benjii]

I just think "Matt Oakley" when I read that, and I didnt rate him much either.

 

Lol - our best midfielder for years!

[OldNick]

I myself have been sceptical of AL but the reson for that was he was poor. last season he relied on his overrating on here. Recently he has been much more effective, perhaps he could add heading to his repertoire. Well done to both of them

[Capel Saint]

And also well done to Pards and the coaches for getting more out of these players than the last lot did.

[eelpie]

I did!

 

But oh dear, Adam's hair's beginning to fall out already.

Perhaps he will be another Alan Shearer.

[Andy_Porter]

They've both won me over in recent weeks. It was obvious Adam would come good eventually he had everything to his game he just wasn't using his ability properly in the right areas. Now he's actually using his energy to get into the box he looks the real deal can't wait to see if he can keep up this impressive form.

 

I really didn't expect much from Schneiderlin after last season I thought he was a massive waste of money who didn't help the defence and didn't create or score goals he was just a luxury player. He seems to gave really stepped up this season, there's a bit of fight and spirit about him and he's started to get in the box more. Was unlucky not to get a penalty on Friday. He's even learnt to tackle, if he keeps improving he will be a class player for us.

[Saint Richard of Woolston]

Yep, saw him up at Huddersfield (quite a drive from Italy!) and although we were generally crap he _can_ tackle and use his height to head the ball, it's just that it isn't the major feature of his game. Definitely quality and he's still young and, not a quality to be underated, not an Academy dwarf.

 

Spot on, Sue. Too many lads from the Academy has not had the physical attributes. They don't ALL need to be giants but they don't ALL need to be midgets either and we did seem to get stuck on underweight (never an accusation leveled at me) and under-sized players.

[Clifford Nelson]

I am one of the non-believers some way into the season. AP's tactical nous have made Lallana into a really hot goalscorer. I apologize, although I always felt he had talent.

 

MS is not the same thing. I've seen him in every home game he has played and I remained unconvinced. I wasn't at Southend, but the story is that he played as an offensive midfielder jointly with Hammond and with Wotton behind him and was MOM. I'm looking forward to seeing him in the next game.

 

To play him as a more offensive midfielder might be the trick, and that is great for the club, but bad news for Mellis. I'm looking to getting a longer term replacement for Wotton, who is doing OK, but I'm looking forward to a younger version who can hold on to the ball and deliver good passes further up the field. We haven't got that player in the club yet, I don't think.

[NickG]

for most of Bristol game thought it was starting to look a good set up

 

Mellis Hammond Morgan

Papa Lambert Lallana

 

AP said he would have kept those together for next games if all were available

[callysaint76]

Thanks!

[Scudamore]

The two are playing better because they have more space now that Waigo is opening up defences with the threat of his pace and ability to get goals.

 

Lallana always had the ability on the ball but it was wasted in midfield causing poor performances. He is a different proposition altogether as a forward now the room is there and the goals are flowing. I hope he stays up front.

 

Another wide left player would open up things even more rather than a holding midfielder. If we are going to play that way I would like to see us maybe play Hammond there and play Schneiderlin + 1 or get in a good passing holding midfielder.

 

So we need width in our play you say? Interesting...

[derry]

So we need width in our play you say? Interesting...

 

No. More width, it is only since Waigo came into the side that we have had any width at all, enough at the moment to give us enough space to score some goals from open play.

 

At the moment everything we create comes in from the right side, we create nothing down our left. That gives us two potential problems, firstly the better sides will work us out and load up their left side and block off our supply. Secondly and it happened against Bristol Rovers we leave our left side open and Harding is exposed to a triangle of right back, and two midfielders coming at him down our left leaving us wide open.

 

It is only by occupying the forward width that we protect our full backs, which we do down our right. It is all well and good having a front sweeper, but unless he fills that gap in front/behind Harding (depending on his attacking position) as the opposition break out down our left, which Wotton doesn't, we are exposed.

 

By playing a wide player on the left rather than a very limited, poor passing front sweeper, would make us more balanced in attack and provide better defence down our left.

[Micky]

So we need width in our play you say? Interesting...

 

Sorry - Derry on the "We need width" soapbox - that would be a first, errrr then again maybe not...!!!

 

More width Mr Pardew, please more width....!

[Clifford Nelson]

No. More width, it is only since Waigo came into the side that we have had any width at all, enough at the moment to give us enough space to score some goals from open play.

 

At the moment everything we create comes in from the right side, we create nothing down our left. That gives us two potential problems, firstly the better sides will work us out and load up their left side and block off our supply. Secondly and it happened against Bristol Rovers we leave our left side open and Harding is exposed to a triangle of right back, and two midfielders coming at him down our left leaving us wide open.

 

It is only by occupying the forward width that we protect our full backs, which we do down our right. It is all well and good having a front sweeper, but unless he fills that gap in front/behind Harding (depending on his attacking position) as the opposition break out down our left, which Wotton doesn't, we are exposed.

 

By playing a wide player on the left rather than a very limited, poor passing front sweeper, would make us more balanced in attack and provide better defence down our left.

 

Two issues, Derry. Firstly we tightened up the left side after Bristol. Harding wasn't struggling without help against Gillingham, and I don't believe against Southend either in the same way. Secondly, the 4-3-3 formation has created enormous movement and the scoring of goals in a way we haven't seen for too many years to remember.

 

AP realised that the wingers were not available at this club to play 4-4-2, and I agree. Fish is probably a left back at best, and AP doesn't fancy Holmes. I don't know why, but his judgements have been accurate so far, so why should I argue.

 

I will be much happier to see an attacking team where the opposition doesn't know who is coming running from where, rather than half hearted crosses nobody can get on the end of. Wingers must be bought in if we want them. To be honest I don't think wingers could possibly improve on the attacking entertainment which was on display against Bristol and Gillingham. And on top of that the 4-3-3/4-5-1 system is very much more flexible. It certainly has suited us.

[derry]

Sorry - Derry on the "We need width" soapbox - that would be a first, errrr then again maybe not...!!!

 

More width Mr Pardew, please more width....!

 

Okay, I'm wrong we didn't need any width and the goals have magically appeared.

 

If Waigo gets injured it won't make any difference. Ferguson is wrong, Capello is wrong, the Brazilians are wrong, we are going to walk into the Premier playing narrow, just like Total football was going to pulverise the Championship last year.

[Legod Third Coming]

Two issues, Derry. Firstly we tightened up the left side after Bristol. Harding wasn't struggling without help against Gillingham, and I don't believe against Southend either in the same way. Secondly, the 4-3-3 formation has created enormous movement and the scoring of goals in a way we haven't seen for too many years to remember.

 

AP realised that the wingers were not available at this club to play 4-4-2, and I agree. Fish is probably a left back at best, and AP doesn't fancy Holmes. I don't know why, but his judgements have been accurate so far, so why should I argue.

 

I will be much happier to see an attacking team where the opposition doesn't know who is coming running from where, rather than half hearted crosses nobody can get on the end of. Wingers must be bought in if we want them. To be honest I don't think wingers could possibly improve on the attacking entertainment which was on display against Bristol and Gillingham. And on top of that the 4-3-3/4-5-1 system is very much more flexible. It certainly has suited us.

 

 

4-4-2 is dead as a system. Managers have woken up to the flexibility and variability of 4-3-3. It offers no less width, if anything it offers more.

 

4-4-2 is not a 'wingers system' anyway, since that would have to be 4-2-4 which no-one in their right mind would play! 4-4-2 could be the most defensive system on earth if you have two lines of 4, flat and play with no zest or movement.

 

We haven't scored any goals from bye-line crosses from my memory, but we've scored 6 excellent and 1 scrambled goal from open play in 2 games. We've also missed half a dozen sitters and hit the post twice.

 

Yes, players dragging the defence out out of shape is a massive contributory factor but you don't need the ball to do that, nor wingers, just a bit of vision.

 

Bloody hell, easy this management game ain't it...

[NickG]

think we play more like 4-3-3!

[derry]

Two issues, Derry. Firstly we tightened up the left side after Bristol. Harding wasn't struggling without help against Gillingham, and I don't believe against Southend either in the same way. Secondly, the 4-3-3 formation has created enormous movement and the scoring of goals in a way we haven't seen for too many years to remember.

 

AP realised that the wingers were not available at this club to play 4-4-2, and I agree. Fish is probably a left back at best, and AP doesn't fancy Holmes. I don't know why, but his judgements have been accurate so far, so why should I argue.

 

I will be much happier to see an attacking team where the opposition doesn't know who is coming running from where, rather than half hearted crosses nobody can get on the end of. Wingers must be bought in if we want them. To be honest I don't think wingers could possibly improve on the attacking entertainment which was on display against Bristol and Gillingham. And on top of that the 4-3-3/4-5-1 system is very much more flexible. It certainly has suited us.

 

It isn't going to work in the long term. You are right in one respect a pacy left sided player will have to be brought in to play 4-4-2, furthermore a proper front sweeper with a high pass completion will be needed if 4-3-3 is to be played.

 

Gillingham were a poor team, Southend aren't much either and the space in front of/behind Harding will be exploited by the better sides.

[Micky]

Okay, I'm wrong we didn't need any width and the goals have magically appeared.

 

If Waigo gets injured it won't make any difference. Ferguson is wrong, Capello is wrong, the Brazilians are wrong, we are going to walk into the Premier playing narrow, just like Total football was going to pulverise the Championship last year.

 

Derry, Derry, Derry, calm yourself mate. I didn't say that we didn't need width, I didn't say that I don't agree with you.

 

It's just that you seem to be fixated with the subject - every other post has something about 'lack of width', it's becoming the 'holy grail', will fix all our ills. Sadley, I rarely read your contributions now because I know that I am likely to be 'Width Lectured' yet again - sorry, and no offence meant, but it gets a little tedious.

 

Yes we do need width, but likewise, sometimes we need to be narrow - width does not guarantee goals. Blow me, Kelvin could lump it straight down the middle, Adam could break the offside trap, run on and bury it - you never know it could happen!

 

I don't care how we score goal, so long as we score, width is just one element of pitch use, and yes it is pleasing on the eye (when it works) but (IMHO) it is not the be all and end all of successful teams.

[Clifford Nelson]

4-4-2 is dead as a system. Managers have woken up to the flexibility and variability of 4-3-3. It offers no less width, if anything it offers more.

 

4-4-2 is not a 'wingers system' anyway, since that would have to be 4-2-4 which no-one in their right mind would play! 4-4-2 could be the most defensive system on earth if you have two lines of 4, flat and play with no zest or movement.

 

We haven't scored any goals from bye-line crosses from my memory, but we've scored 6 excellent and 1 scrambled goal from open play in 2 games. We've also missed half a dozen sitters and hit the post twice.

 

Yes, players dragging the defence out out of shape is a massive contributory factor but you don't need the ball to do that, nor wingers, just a bit of vision.

 

Bloody hell, easy this management game ain't it...

 

It is indeed for as long as you can do it from the comfort of your own home. In addition to your comments, which I agree with, any opposition in this league and the CCC knows all about how to defend against 4-4-2. They do it every week and have done all through their careers. They will find it difficult to defend against anything else.

 

You will see the argument every so often that it will be different when they have figured out how we play. Maybe so, but to use that as an argument for 4-4-2 is really scraping the barrel.

 

We need to be comfortable to play 4-5-1/4-3-3 and 4-4-2 as well. But you're right, I can't remember a bye line cross at all over the last 20 years or so.