Mark Fry (Begbies Traynor) given award

[Fitzhugh Fella]

for the way he handled the "rescue" of Southampton FC. (from tonight's Echo)

 

The honour came at the 2009 Insolvency and Recue awards and the judges said "Begbies dealt with the emotions of the fans as well as the needs of different classes of creditors in this complex and high risk profile rescue".

 

Hmmmm!

 

I like the "different classes of creditors" quote.

 

For me I think Fry made a big mistake in giving Pinnacle exclusivity - without fully checking out their finances), and we were bloody lucky Liebherr was prepared to play second fiddle while a bunch of amateurs/quick buck merchants damn near killed our football club.

 

Perhaps Fry should hand over his award to Mr Liebherr?

Edited 7 November, 2009 by Fitzhugh Fella
spelling

[CWD]

I wish I could get an award for doing my job!

[aintforever]

To be fair, maybe he knew Leibherr was happy to play second fiddle.

[70's Mike]

Fry got lucky

i wonder if the details of other bids will ever come out?

[Whitey Grandad]

The other nominations must have been bad.

[Bucks Saint]

I am meeting him in two weeks so I will get a small chance to find out what he is really like

[saint lard]

I am meeting him in two weeks so I will get a small chance to find out what he is really like

Could you ask him that when he deals with the PFC admin that he could feck about as much as he did with us please;)

[red&white56]

I am meeting him in two weeks so I will get a small chance to find out what he is really like

 

It would be great if you could get some comments from him about how he viewed pinnacle - I was suckered in by them because of MLT's involvement - maybe he was as well...........

[benjii]

Glad to see everyone on here knows how to handle corporate insolvencies.

 

[dune]

[RonManager]

Glad to see everyone on here knows how to handle corporate insolvencies.

 

 

Yeeeaaaah, we've all done a few.:cool:

[Whitey Grandad]

I am meeting him in two weeks so I will get a small chance to find out what he is really like

I hope you're meeting him for personal and not professional reasons?

[OldNick]

big big Lol

[Whitey Grandad]

Is that the award for the flyweight division?

[Nineteen Canteen]

for the way he handled the "rescue" of Southampton FC. (from tonight's Echo)

 

The honour came at the 2009 Insolvency and Recue awards and the judges said "Begbies dealt with the emotions of the fans as well as the needs of different classes of creditors in this complex and high risk profile rescue".

 

Hmmmm!

 

I like the "different classes of creditors" quote.

 

For me I think Fry made a big mistake in giving Pinnacle exclusivity - without fully checking out their finances), and we were bloody lucky Liebherr was prepared to play second fiddle while a bunch of amateurs/quick buck merchants damn near killed our football club.

 

Perhaps Fry should hand over his award to Mr Liebherr?

 

I posted the fact he had been nominated a few week ago and I think it was in the businesses under £15m (or similar) turnover award where Begbies was one of two nominations! Not much of a contest tbh considering tne number of companies that must have gone to the wall these past 12 months - not many rescued as you say Duncan and this may have been down more to luck on Begbie's side than judgement IMO also.

 

I agree wholeheartedly about your summary of Pinnacle and it remains disappointing that two leading 'Saints' have remained awfully quiet about their role other than some 'straight bat, forward defensive' replies that we could have written for them, once again all in my less than expert opinion.

[Clifford Nelson]

The unbelievable bit is that Fry allowed Pinnacle exclusivity without having established that they had the money. Was he duped? Didn't he check at all? Did somebody withdraw the money which he had once seen? Why wasn't there any warning bells when LC coughed up the £1/2M instead of the consortium?

 

There are plenty of questions, but no answer which satisfactorily excuses the slip-up of a professional person. What I would have gotten in response would have been a carpeting and a grilling at the very least, but a price? Maybe insolvency is the business to get into...

[rooney]

Has anybody ever heard from Fry about their shares in Southampton Leisure Holdings Ltd?

[saint_stevo]

Fry nearly ruined us by ignoring the Swiss even though they had the exclusivity money before the Pinnacle Jokers

 

Utter Cant

[stardustonmyfeet]

Mark Fry for chairman

[saint_mears]

LOL what a total joke.

 

Liebherr should of been signing exclusivity on 29th May and thus the farce would not of continued all the way to 6th July.

[saintofme]

How the hell did he get an award ? apart from **** of the year maybe. He damn near killed us !

[shurlock]

Was a c**ts hair away from f**king up. forget the initial exclusivity, the haughty way he dealt with the ML/NC throughout -paraphrasing Cortese it was like "he didnt want them" was a joke.

 

By contrast, ML/NC are model professionals and both knew a good deal for what it was and quickly smelt the Pinnacle bulls**t (no doubt before fry). They were confident and patient enough not to get flustered when others would have blinked and/or taken offense and walked away.

Edited 7 November, 2009 by shurlock

[Dark Munster]

Could you ask him that when he deals with the PFC admin that he could feck about as much as he did with us please;)

 

And to give Pinnacle permanent exclusivity.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Was a c**ts hair away from f**king up. forget the initial exclusivity, the haughty way he dealt with the ML/NC throughout -paraphrasing Cortese it was like "he didnt want them" was a joke.

 

By contrast, ML/NC are model professionals and both knew a good deal for what it was and quickly smelt the Pinnacle bulls**t (no doubt before fry). They were confident and patient enough not to get flustered when others would have blinked and/or taken offense and walked away.

 

What is the one reason you can think of as to why Fry at the time may have thought Pinnacle was the stronger bid and had the greater chance of success? Lynam's sweet talk, Le Tissier's endorsement or Crouch's back up money? Perhaps the fact a Saints Leg end was with the bid and safe in the knowledge of the interest this would generate in the fanbase may have influenced his decision, just a thought.

 

It's not just Fry who needs to provide some answers or should be given some golden **** award IMO.

[benjii]

None of you know what you're talking about though do you? (Cue some boring ITKer).

 

His job was not to get the best deal for Saints it was to get the best deal for creditors whilst allowing the business to continue existing. We don't know the details of Liebherr's purchase. Maybe Pinnacle were offering more. Clearly they could provide proof of funds at some point. If someone buggered off half-way through then that is a risk of the game.

 

At the end of the day, brinksmanship and big balls are part of his job. He would've only taken it on for the public profile and Begbies wouldn't have got paid properly if it went tits up.

 

Ultimately, everyone is happy.

[alpine_saint]

for the way he handled the "rescue" of Southampton FC. (from tonight's Echo)

 

The honour came at the 2009 Insolvency and Recue awards and the judges said "Begbies dealt with the emotions of the fans as well as the needs of different classes of creditors in this complex and high risk profile rescue".

 

Hmmmm!

 

I like the "different classes of creditors" quote.

 

For me I think Fry made a big mistake in giving Pinnacle exclusivity - without fully checking out their finances), and we were bloody lucky Liebherr was prepared to play second fiddle while a bunch of amateurs/quick buck merchants damn near killed our football club.

 

Perhaps Fry should hand over his award to Mr Liebherr?

 

Cant you drop it, Dunc ?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Cant you drop it, Dunc ?

 

I am merely reporting something that was in tonight's echo.

 

And, as you will see from some of the posts, there are still questions remaining unanswered.

 

Forgive me, as a historian I like questions answered even if it takes years, that is why I enjoy talking to old players. Terry Paine told me something this week about the 60s I found very interesting and I had never heard before - the fact that it happened 50 years to me was irrelevant.

 

No disrespect Apline, but if you find these sort of posts passe - stay off them, mate.

Regards and all that!

[alpine_saint]

I am merely reporting something that was in tonight's echo.

 

And, as you will see from some of the posts, there are still questions remaining unanswered.

 

Forgive me, as a historian I like questions answered even if it takes years, that is why I enjoy talking to old players. Terry Paine told me something this week about the 60s I found very interesting and I had never heard before - the fact that it happened 50 years to me was irrelevant.

 

No disrespect Apline, but if you find these sort of posts passe - stay off them, mate.

Regards and all that!

 

Look, I have forever been told to put the Lowe and Burley years aside (not by you admittedly). I have no issue with you pursuing your known bent for putting things into their historical context, I just reckon that the wounds are still too raw in this case.

[saintwarwick]

None of you know what you're talking about though do you? (Cue some boring ITKer).

 

His job was not to get the best deal for Saints it was to get the best deal for creditors whilst allowing the business to continue existing. We don't know the details of Liebherr's purchase. Maybe Pinnacle were offering more. Clearly they could provide proof of funds at some point. If someone buggered off half-way through then that is a risk of the game.

 

At the end of the day, brinksmanship and big balls are part of his job. He would've only taken it on for the public profile and Begbies wouldn't have got paid properly if it went tits up.

 

Ultimately, everyone is happy.

 

I agree with you benjii seems a few on here no nothing about how insolvencies work, still let them carry on with their unfound rants.

[saint_stevo]

I agree with you benjii seems a few on here no nothing about how insolvencies work, still let them carry on with their unfound rants.

 

If the swiss bid was good enough in the end, why ignore them in favour of the tyre kicking moron and his home boy fialka earlier on in the process when they had the money for exclusivity before Pinnacle and obvious proof of funds?

[Thedelldays]

If the swiss bid was good enough in the end, why ignore them in favour of the tyre kicking moron and his home boy fialka earlier on in the process when they had the money for exclusivity before Pinnacle and obvious proof of funds?

thing is..we just dont know what really happened.....there must be a reason why he is getting praised so much...

[eelpie]

for the way he handled the "rescue" of Southampton FC. (from tonight's Echo)

 

The honour came at the 2009 Insolvency and Recue awards and the judges said "Begbies dealt with the emotions of the fans as well as the needs of different classes of creditors in this complex and high risk profile rescue".

 

Hmmmm!

 

I like the "different classes of creditors" quote.

 

For me I think Fry made a big mistake in giving Pinnacle exclusivity - without fully checking out their finances), and we were bloody lucky Liebherr was prepared to play second fiddle while a bunch of amateurs/quick buck merchants damn near killed our football club.

 

Perhaps Fry should hand over his award to Mr Liebherr?

 

I agree with your sentiments, Duncan, and I doubt if we'll get to the truth of why Pinnacle was given exclusivity over Liebherr. But one thing that might have swung the vote in Mark Fry's favour in landing the award may lie with the judges first phrase above:

 

"Begbies dealt with the emotions of the fans..."

 

It is true that when Mark Fry was FIRST appointed Saints fans were impressed with his early statements of support, and we (well I certainly was) were encouraged that he might actually be able to save the club. He made the right noises. So Fry was so over-awed by club legend MLT's support of Pinnacle that he persisted in repeatedly favouring them over Liebherr. Was he not in contact with Liebherr during this time? He sounded doubtful that the Swiss were going to come up with an offer at all, after Pinnacle pulled out. There must have been a lot of dis-information and tough last-minute negotiating between Marcus and Fry? Whatever, it was a bloody close damn thing. We were very, very lucky.

 

Right now, I can't care less if Fry gets the plaudits he does or doesn't deserve. I'm enjoying my football.

And perhaps he'll go on to save the likes of others, like Southend. I hope he or someone else does. I can't care if he, or someone else, makes a very fat living out of saving football clubs by skill - or by luck. (It doesn't actually leave a nice taste in my mouth that the Insolvency industry profits so much from others' misfortunes.) So long as the fans benefit in the end. That's what matters.

 

So good luck to Southend, and all the many other clubs who are going to find themselves in the situation we were in.

[eelpie]

...... a Saints Leg end was with the bid.......

 

Surely you're not suggesting....?

[saintwarwick]

If the swiss bid was good enough in the end, why ignore them in favour of the tyre kicking moron and his home boy fialka earlier on in the process when they had the money for exclusivity before Pinnacle and obvious proof of funds?

 

Do you have any evidence they were up front with the money before Pinnacle?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I agree with your sentiments, Duncan, and I doubt if we'll get to the truth of why Pinnacle was given exclusivity over Liebherr. But one thing that might have swung the vote in Mark Fry's favour in landing the award may lie with the judges first phrase above:

 

"Begbies dealt with the emotions of the fans..."

 

It is true that when Mark Fry was FIRST appointed Saints fans were impressed with his early statements of support, and we (well I certainly was) were encouraged that he might actually be able to save the club. He made the right noises. So Fry was so over-awed by club legend MLT's support of Pinnacle that he persisted in repeatedly favouring them over Liebherr. Was he not in contact with Liebherr during this time? He sounded doubtful that the Swiss were going to come up with an offer at all, after Pinnacle pulled out. There must have been a lot of dis-information and tough last-minute negotiating between Marcus and Fry? Whatever, it was a bloody close damn thing. We were very, very lucky.

 

Right now, I can't care less if Fry gets the plaudits he does or doesn't deserve. I'm enjoying my football.

And perhaps he'll go on to save the likes of others, like Southend. I hope he or someone else does. I can't care if he, or someone else, makes a very fat living out of saving football clubs by skill - or by luck. (It doesn't actually leave a nice taste in my mouth that the Insolvency industry profits so much from others' misfortunes.) So long as the fans benefit in the end. That's what matters.

 

So good luck to Southend, and all the many other clubs who are going to find themselves in the situation we were in.

 

Can't argue with any of that - however still an intriguing episode in our history and one that in later years people will study with interest. After all SFC nearly disappeared after 123 years and yet none of us with the exception of Fry know exactly why that was.

 

As Alpine implies right now, we have bigger fish to fry (please excuse the intentional pun) but nevertheless the fact the guy actually got an award was enough to make me put my head above the Saints Web Forum parapet - never a comfortable place to be.

 

Shame about Eastleigh!

[dubai_phil]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Enough said..

 

Next topic

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Fry got lucky

i wonder if the details of other bids will ever come out?

 

I doubt it as there were a lot of N.D.A.s flying around at the time.

[Wes Tender]

Has anybody ever heard from Fry about their shares in Southampton Leisure Holdings Ltd?

 

I was a small shareholder along with my son, just a token thing, really. But your point is a valid one, I think. As far as I am concerned and I'm certain that somebody will put me right on this, the administrator surely has a duty to notify every shareholder, no matter how small, what the position is with their shareholding. I have not heard a dicky bird.

 

I don't really care about the shares, as I would gladly pay three times the amount if it meant that we had Markus Liebherr owning us, but I wonder whether correct procedures have been followed.

[saintwarwick]

I was a small shareholder along with my son, just a token thing, really. But your point is a valid one, I think. As far as I am concerned and I'm certain that somebody will put me right on this, the administrator surely has a duty to notify every shareholder, no matter how small, what the position is with their shareholding. I have not heard a dicky bird.

 

I don't really care about the shares, as I would gladly pay three times the amount if it meant that we had Markus Liebherr owning us, but I wonder whether correct procedures have been followed.

 

I'm sure they have but you can always write to them and ask what has happened to your shares and are they worth anything.

[CB Saint]

I was a small shareholder along with my son, just a token thing, really. But your point is a valid one, I think. As far as I am concerned and I'm certain that somebody will put me right on this, the administrator surely has a duty to notify every shareholder, no matter how small, what the position is with their shareholding. I have not heard a dicky bird.

 

I don't really care about the shares, as I would gladly pay three times the amount if it meant that we had Markus Liebherr owning us, but I wonder whether correct procedures have been followed.

 

I am pretty sure that as a shareholder you whistle for it. The creditors get updated as and when something significant happens - usually the administrator announcing that he has now spent enough time on the job to soak up any remaining funds.

[CB Saint]

With regards to Mark Fry getting an award - the contraversial view would be that SFC still exists and was rescued when we were up to our necks in it and therefore he did a good job (despite the length of time it took).

 

I reckon that there will be a number of other footie clubs feraturing in the insolvency awards over the next few years.

[John D]

I was a small shareholder along with my son, just a token thing, really. But your point is a valid one, I think. As far as I am concerned and I'm certain that somebody will put me right on this, the administrator surely has a duty to notify every shareholder, no matter how small, what the position is with their shareholding. I have not heard a dicky bird.

 

I don't really care about the shares, as I would gladly pay three times the amount if it meant that we had Markus Liebherr owning us, but I wonder whether correct procedures have been followed.

 

I've heard nothing either but I would have thought shareholders would have got some form of letter to say the company has been wound up etc

[Bucks Saint]

There is no requirement to notify shareholders. The company (SLH) has not yet been wound up. The formal notice of appointment of Fry is publicly available info at Companies House and at the Stock Market as it was listed, quite apart from the publicity in the media. His overriding duty is to get the best return for creditors and only if he does that to the extent that they get paid in full do shareholders become relevant again. From all the info about the Aviva mortgage debt etc there is no chance of this.

 

If SLH goes into liquidation later shareholders will get notice then. Meantime Fry has to file annual accounts of his receipts and payments at Companies House if you want to find out more

[benjii]

If the swiss bid was good enough in the end, why ignore them in favour of the tyre kicking moron and his home boy fialka earlier on in the process when they had the money for exclusivity before Pinnacle and obvious proof of funds?

 

I don't know. Neither do you. Obviously there was a reason. He's not some sort of idiot. His peers, who know about these things, seem impressed. His job was to get a deal acceptable to creditors not fans of SFC, hence the praise for him apparently doing both.

[luvaduck]

We have to look at this in perspective.

The judges for this award would not have experienced the heart-stopping moments that most of us went through this summer.

As objective outsiders what they would see is that a once successful Premiership football club fell on hard times, went into administration, was kept alive throughout the worst part of the year, was successfully sold off to a Swiss Billionaire and is now attracting one of the highest attendances in League One.

From an objective point of view that sounds like a successful outcome

Remember that Fry’s job was to obtain the best deal for the creditors, not the fans.

The simplest (and to him, less stressful and probably also on a time/income basis the most profitable ) would have been to have wound up the company, sold off all the assets individually, pocketed his fee and walked away.

But he recognised that there is a hardcore of loyal fans and there was a possibility of selling the company/club as a going concern.

To do that the company/club had to generate income throughout the period of administration to pay for the ongoing expenses- that is why we were all asked to turn up in numbers to the last few games of the season

But once the season was over there is no income (Bon Jovi are not touring until next year!) but the expenses/wages still have to be paid

That is why our “best” players were sold – that is why Crouch put in his first contribution to make sure the wages were paid.

From my reading of the situation Fry had got to a stage where unless he received a further contribution he would have had to wind up the company – so he set the target for exclusivity in return for a financial contribution.

AS far as I can remember the Swiss Consortium were not ready to make a contribution in that timescale

So I don’t think Pinnacle were AWARDED exclusivity, they BOUGHT it when Crouch aligned himself to their bid and stumped up the cash – and Fry had bought himself another month to keep the club going and hope that a sale could go ahead

Thankfully Cortese/Liebherr held their nerve and patiently waited until Pinnacle fell apart – true professionals who have dealt with this sort of thing before – which is why our owner is a billionaire!!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

We have to look at this in perspective.

The judges for this award would not have experienced the heart-stopping moments that most of us went through this summer.

As objective outsiders what they would see is that a once successful Premiership football club fell on hard times, went into administration, was kept alive throughout the worst part of the year, was successfully sold off to a Swiss Billionaire and is now attracting one of the highest attendances in League One.

From an objective point of view that sounds like a successful outcome

Remember that Fry’s job was to obtain the best deal for the creditors, not the fans.

The simplest (and to him, less stressful and probably also on a time/income basis the most profitable ) would have been to have wound up the company, sold off all the assets individually, pocketed his fee and walked away.

But he recognised that there is a hardcore of loyal fans and there was a possibility of selling the company/club as a going concern.

To do that the company/club had to generate income throughout the period of administration to pay for the ongoing expenses- that is why we were all asked to turn up in numbers to the last few games of the season

But once the season was over there is no income (Bon Jovi are not touring until next year!) but the expenses/wages still have to be paid

That is why our “best” players were sold – that is why Crouch put in his first contribution to make sure the wages were paid.

From my reading of the situation Fry had got to a stage where unless he received a further contribution he would have had to wind up the company – so he set the target for exclusivity in return for a financial contribution.

AS far as I can remember the Swiss Consortium were not ready to make a contribution in that timescale

So I don’t think Pinnacle were AWARDED exclusivity, they BOUGHT it when Crouch aligned himself to their bid and stumped up the cash – and Fry had bought himself another month to keep the club going and hope that a sale could go ahead

Thankfully Cortese/Liebherr held their nerve and patiently waited until Pinnacle fell apart – true professionals who have dealt with this sort of thing before – which is why our owner is a billionaire!!

 

That is an intersting and plausible scenario you paint but Cortese's comments in the Echo soon after Liebherr's arrival would indicate he at least felt Fry did not take the Swiss bid as seriously as he should have, expecially when it came to light that Pinnacle were not much more than speculators.

 

I think Fry took the easy option, plumped for Pinnacle on the sole basis Leon Crouch had delivered hard cash up to that point. Leon was well-intentioned I am sure but his generosity gave Pinnacle the "clout and gravitas" they did not deserve or warrant.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

As he was charged with getting the creditors the 'best deal' did they, the creditors, have the opportunity to vote ? as we, the fans, were referenced in the decision to give him the award were we asked how we felt he had dealt with our emotions ? thought we were largely, at the end, pretty much ignored/kept in the dark(rightly or wrongly under the circumstances)

[NickG]

successful conclusion.

 

came across exceptionally well with updates to fans - often praised on here.

 

This appears to be what the award is for so best of luck to him -sounds justified.

[luvaduck]

That is an intersting and plausible scenario you paint but Cortese's comments in the Echo soon after Liebherr's arrival would indicate he at least felt Fry did not take the Swiss bid as seriously as he should have, expecially when it came to light that Pinnacle were not much more than speculators.

 

I think Fry took the easy option, plumped for Pinnacle on the sole basis Leon Crouch had delivered hard cash up to that point. Leon was well-intentioned I am sure but his generosity gave Pinnacle the "clout and gravitas" they did not deserve or warrant.

 

That’s exactly my point – he took the easy option at that time because he was desperate for cash to keep the club going and Pinnacle/Crouch were the only ones prepared to come up with what he needed.

Perhaps he saw the lack of urgency from Cortese/Liebherr as a lack of commitment

I am sure that he was also aware of the fans opinions

Remember at the time there was the buzz from the fans about MLT being the chairman/figurehead – pity that his backers were amateurs playing at being football club owners

We had a lucky escape!!

[alpine_saint]

successful conclusion.

 

came across exceptionally well with updates to fans - often praised on here.

 

This appears to be what the award is for so best of luck to him -sounds justified.

 

Indeed, I have no problem with him getting a pat-on-the-back either.

 

On balance, we should be grateful to him