The official Lloyd James at RB thread

[CWD]

This topic was starting to take over other threads so I thought it should have one of its own.

 

SO what do the majority of ppl think? is he wasted RB? is he letting the team down at RB? How desperate do we need a replacement?

 

FWIW I really rate LJ. He will never set the world alight, but all last year he did a job and is doing it consistently now. I think people forget that we are a L1 team, and just because the majority of our team is CCC standard then we expect that in every position. imo LJ is (and proved last year) that he is, or will be a solid CCC right back. James will learn from Murty too.

 

I also dont think RB is a priority for us. We have three very capable players who can fill that role in Murty, James and Thomas, all of which are perfectly solid AT THIS LEVEL. By all means find a top RB in the summer but for now we need cover for other positions, and not one for which we have three suitors

[Saint_clark]

The trouble is that just as he's getting used to playing at RB, Murty gets fit again and he's moved back to midfield. I think he's a very talented young player with flaws - like all young talented players have.

[Andy_Porter]

100% agree with everything.

 

One of only four players to have started every league game this season, it's clear that Pardew rates him. I find it strange how one player can split opinion so much - just football I suppose.

[Faz]

I think he's adequate and getting better at RB. The other issue, is we don't have anyone more capable of delivering quality from set pieces as yet. That makes him an important player.

[Thedelldays]

he is alright...one of the better assists provider in the league..

[Andy_Porter]

he is alright...one of the better assists provider in the league..

 

Is there a list anywhere? would be interesting to see who he's ahead of.

[derry]

James is a short term answer to an immediate problem. Because of his lack of pace he will never be the long term right back. It is only a matter of time, as new players are brought in, before he becomes a regular substitute, then eventually moves on.

[Thedelldays]

Is there a list anywhere? would be interesting to see who he's ahead of.

I had a look into the stats on the FL website...he would be in the top2/3 of most of the teams above us

[Joesaint]

I like him at RB not the best I know but improving fast and I feel that at this level he has an opportunity to get up to standard, we will see hay!

 

COYR

[Topcat]

His pace would not be a problem if he was able to read the game better. Bobby Moore was slow but read the game well.

 

Lloyd is not a good right back.

[beatlesaint]

I have no problem with him in midfield, I still think he would be quite good as a right sided midfield player so he could provide cover for the right back.

 

But at right back - he is too slow if anyone with any pace is up against him, his positional play is not all it should be, he tends to ball watch at times and he isn't very good at holding the line.

 

Now in this league you can probably get away with it 50%, maybe more, of the time but if we intend to take this league by the scruff of the neck next season Lloyd at right back would be a very big weakness unfortunately.

[saintstr1]

Think it is time everyone got off his back, LJ is doing just fine. Excellent team player in the mould of Dodd & Benali . Niether of them were what you would call World Class full backs but they never let us down, Lloyd is still learning but for my money is more than worth his place in the team. I do not understand why people want a right back as a priority with James , Murty & Thomas we are well covered for the position IMO

[Andy_Porter]

I had a look into the stats on the FL website...he would be in the top2/3 of most of the teams above us

 

Hoolahan Norwich - 12

McGovern Swindon - 11

Lambert - 11

Kavanagh Carlisle - 10

Snodgrass Leeds- 10

Hackett Milwall - 8

Lappin Norwich - 8

Welsh Yeovil - 8

James - 7

 

7 assists from 30 games isn't a bad return at all considering he didn't take and set pieces for the first handfull of games. Should get 11-13 assists if we keep scoring so many.

 

I wonder when we last got 10+ assists from our set piece taker? Must have been Le Tissier.

[Toadhall Saint]

Think it is time everyone got off his back, LJ is doing just fine. Excellent team player in the mould of Dodd & Benali . Niether of them were what you would call World Class full backs but they never let us down, Lloyd is still learning but for my money is more than worth his place in the team. I do not understand why people want a right back as a priority with James , Murty & Thomas we are well covered for the position IMO

 

.+1

[Weston Saint]

James is not a right back. He lacks pace, awareness, positional play and experience.

 

As a midfielder he is ok but will be found out at the next level.

 

Pardew seems to like him presumably because he can cross the ball (from the wrong places imo) May be a good utility player to cover for injuries but no more than that at present.

 

Murty is our best RB. Might lack a bit of pace now but has everything else to compensate. Thomas would be my second choice although he is better in the centre

[Crowds]

James is a short term answer to an immediate problem. Because of his lack of pace he will never be the long term right back. It is only a matter of time, as new players are brought in, before he becomes a regular substitute, then eventually moves on.

 

Totally agree he has cost us points si gle handedly this season with a lack of pace meaning rash or late challenges. Going forward he's found out also as he has no pace he always ops for the early cross becuase he cannot beat the player. IMO he's a l1 midfileder atm certainly not a defender that we can utilise in the road to the prem.

 

Crowds

[CWD]

Totally agree he has cost us points single handedly this season with a lack of pace meaning rash or late challenges. Going forward he's found out also as he has no pace he always ops for the early cross becuase he cannot beat the player. IMO he's a l1 midfileder atm certainly not a defender that we can utilise in the road to the prem.

 

Crowds

 

Sorry but when exactly has he done this? very harsh statement

[Kevtherev]

James is not a right back. He lacks pace, awareness, positional play and experience.

 

As a midfielder he is ok but will be found out at the next level.

 

Pardew seems to like him presumably because he can cross the ball (from the wrong places imo) May be a good utility player to cover for injuries but no more than that at present.

 

Murty is our best RB. Might lack a bit of pace now but has everything else to compensate. Thomas would be my second choice although he is better in the centre

 

Well said, Thomas on his way, Murty injury prone but best RB we have, so in my opinion we needed to make four to five signings now or inthe summer:- RB CH MF and CF Lambert is good scores goals has hard shot but we still need CF who wins the ball in the air with Ricky playing off him (New Thread my be)?

[Crowds]

Sorry but when exactly has he done this? very harsh statement

 

To name two that stupid penalty he gave away? Or lack of defending against brentford for that late late equaliser? There are more.. I like him as a CM when others are unavailable but he's no defender

[krissyboy31]

One of the slowest players I've ever seen in a Saints' shirt. Possibly could get away with it as a defensive, holding midfielder but anywhere else of the field his lack of pace is a real problem. Decent enough on the ball and can cross the ball (but as Weston says, generally from far too far out). Can't just pick him because he can take a decent corner IMO.

[Kingsland Red]

As a right back you need to either stay tight and steer your opponent down the line or get in a tackle / block. Too many opponents get past the outside of him and with a lack of pace he is then out of the game. As he never gets tight on his opponent but backs off, he rarely gets in a block.

He also puts balls into the mixer from way too far back from the bye line, at a difficult angle for the central players to attack.

At best I would say adequate cover for Murty in this division.

[hypochondriac]

James is not a right back. He lacks pace, awareness, positional play and experience.

 

As a midfielder he is ok but will be found out at the next level.

 

Pardew seems to like him presumably because he can cross the ball (from the wrong places imo) May be a good utility player to cover for injuries but no more than that at present.

 

Murty is our best RB. Might lack a bit of pace now but has everything else to compensate. Thomas would be my second choice although he is better in the centre

 

I agree. If Murty is going to be injured all the time though then we need a RB.

[hypochondriac]

Sorry but when exactly has he done this? very harsh statement

 

Not harsh at all. Many times he has been skinned by their winger before they cross it in for a goal or near miss. He just isn't a defender.

[Avenue Saint]

dont rate him. Effects way we play, too much hoof ball. Murty, older, slower but stll better!

[Junior Mullet]

Doesn't have the right attributes to be a very good RB IMO. We are lookikng for excellece throougout the team and whilst James has done OK he's not been good enough.

 

On the plus side he has a great attitude, can cross the ball well, is a hard tackler and seems to get on with the rest of the team.

 

On the downside, he is too slow (pace and acceleration) and positioning at times is wobbly (althoug he has not been helped by team mates at times). He also lacks height and has regularly been beaten in the air at the back stick and that has lead to conceding goals.

 

I think he has a decent future ahead of him as a tenacious defensive midfielder.

[hectors house]

I do think James is better in midfield than RB but IMO he is nowhere near as bad a player as some people on here feel he is. I think his lack of pace will stop him ever being a quality RB, both defensively defending a ball over the top and also offensively as he rarely attacks the byline but instead crosses from deep (which I should add he often does to great effect). However he is relatively new to the position and hopefully he can only learn from the quality coaches we now have at the club and also from the likes of Murty. Should we (sorry I mean "when we") get back to the PL I don't think James will be our RB but at the moment he will do for me. Besides I still live in a world where Pardew can do no wrong so if he rates him then it is good enough for me.

 

I do get a bit fed up when James always seems to be the scapegoat these days, I read the match threads and people who obviously have not even been to the match are slagging him off - sometimes it just seems to be the "thing to do". IMO whilst I also rate Harding he has been just as prone to defensive lapses as James, I see just as many attacks coming down our left flank as I do the right but somehow he seems to "walk on water" whilst James makes one mistake and it is picked to pieces. Personally I rate them both as good enough to get us out of L1 and I accept that at times they will have bad games or make mistakes but if that were not the case they would not be playing for a team in L1.

[RonManager]

1 bad - Oldham's goal - left for dead.

 

1 good - his 1st time volley pass for Connolly to run onto for the 1st a Walsall.

[Window Cleaner]

I agree. If Murty is going to be injured all the time though then we need a RB.

 

But Murty is injured most of the time, 5 league starts from 24 isn't what you'd expect from a core player.

[The9]

I don't think James has been particularly bad at RB but he seems to be better as a defensive midfielder, and he probably won't get in the side much there any more if our rumoured signings are true.

 

FWIW I've been much more impressed with Thomas at RB in Murty's absence, when James plays there we always seem to be slinging crappy crosses at the first defender from deep. At least James has reeled in his tendency to slide tackle from behind and get booked all the time...

[The9]

1 bad - Oldham's goal - left for dead.

 

1 good - his 1st time volley pass for Connolly to run onto for the 1st a Walsall.

 

Bit simplistic, and you missed the excellent outside of the foot through ball a few games ago at St Mary's (think it was to Waigo to square for Lambert).

[Legod Third Coming]

Totally agree he has cost us points si gle handedly this season with a lack of pace meaning rash or late challenges. Going forward he's found out also as he has no pace he always ops for the early cross becuase he cannot beat the player. IMO he's a l1 midfileder atm certainly not a defender that we can utilise in the road to the prem.

 

Crowds

 

He has earned us more points than he's cost. He pretty much single-handedly beat Exeter. I don't recall many rash/late challanges.

 

He undoubtedly lacks pace and his positional play needs work - he irritates me by often going the wrong side of the attacker. And that does need addressing - having said which, he's doing it less and less as he learns.

 

He is young but his delivery is first-class. Where he delivers from is clearly something for the manager. If he was repeatedly delivering from the wrong place then the manager would either drop him or tell him!

[Legod Third Coming]

I do think James is better in midfield than RB but IMO he is nowhere near as bad a player as some people on here feel he is. I think his lack of pace will stop him ever being a quality RB, both defensively defending a ball over the top and also offensively as he rarely attacks the byline but instead crosses from deep (which I should add he often does to great effect). However he is relatively new to the position and hopefully he can only learn from the quality coaches we now have at the club and also from the likes of Murty. Should we (sorry I mean "when we") get back to the PL I don't think James will be our RB but at the moment he will do for me. Besides I still live in a world where Pardew can do no wrong so if he rates him then it is good enough for me.

 

I do get a bit fed up when James always seems to be the scapegoat these days, I read the match threads and people who obviously have not even been to the match are slagging him off - sometimes it just seems to be the "thing to do". IMO whilst I also rate Harding he has been just as prone to defensive lapses as James, I see just as many attacks coming down our left flank as I do the right but somehow he seems to "walk on water" whilst James makes one mistake and it is picked to pieces. Personally I rate them both as good enough to get us out of L1 and I accept that at times they will have bad games or make mistakes but if that were not the case they would not be playing for a team in L1.

 

I agree 110% with this lot.

[RonManager]

Bit simplistic, and you missed the excellent outside of the foot through ball a few games ago at St Mary's (think it was to Waigo to square for Lambert).

 

I can give loads more good and bad examples - that was just a starter.

 

I could also give the same good and bads for all the other players in the team.

 

The point I'm making is that just about anything can be said about anybody by picking odd examples. I rate Lloyd James as a midfielder in League 1, he tackles well, doesn't get booked much and his distribution is good.

 

I also agree that he is not ideal as a RB for the reasons stated by others.

[Third Division South Days]

James is not a right back. He lacks pace, awareness, positional play and experience.

 

As a midfielder he is ok but will be found out at the next level.

 

Pardew seems to like him presumably because he can cross the ball (from the wrong places imo) May be a good utility player to cover for injuries but no more than that at present.

 

Murty is our best RB. Might lack a bit of pace now but has everything else to compensate. Thomas would be my second choice although he is better in the centre

 

Cannot argue with any of the above. So frustrating see to crosses coming from nearer the halfway line than byeline. There does not appear to have to have been any attempt to improve that aspect of his game so I'm starting to think he's under instruction to play that way.

[Saint Fan CaM]

James is not a right back. He lacks pace, awareness, positional play and experience.

 

As a midfielder he is ok but will be found out at the next level.

 

Pardew seems to like him presumably because he can cross the ball (from the wrong places imo) May be a good utility player to cover for injuries but no more than that at present.

 

Murty is our best RB. Might lack a bit of pace now but has everything else to compensate. Thomas would be my second choice although he is better in the centre

 

 

Weston as usual (well mostly :wink:) is spot on with his analysis. However, I would be slightly more forgiving and say James is an adequate RB at this level playing the lower half teams.

[Golden Balls]

I would say RB is a position we need to prioritise. He just isn't good enough! Yes he has an ok cross but like others have said, he does it from too far away.

 

Compare him to Harding on the other side and you can see we need to strengthen RB. People have said Murty is too slow...I'm pretty sure he is quicker than James.

[Legod Third Coming]

I would say RB is a position we need to prioritise. He just isn't good enough! Yes he has an ok cross but like others have said, he does it from too far away.

 

Compare him to Harding on the other side and you can see we need to strengthen RB. People have said Murty is too slow...I'm pretty sure he is quicker than James.

 

Er, how many assists does Harding have, from anywhere???

 

I want to see your evidence for judging them differently.

 

To me, there's not a lot between them.

[krissyboy31]

dont rate him. Effects way we play, too much hoof ball. Murty, older, slower but stll better!

 

Murty is quicker than James, despite being about 10 years older.

[ringwood]

James, slow on the turn, unable to read the player against him and keep him on his weaker foot, which may mean either inside or outside. To often he needs to lunge in desperate attempt to stop the player only to get skinned. If he holds the player up, slows the game it gives the CB's the GK and the MF a chance to get back and cover ,to often crosses get put in and we have a GK who doesn't cope well with crosses.

 

Midfield or maybe he's the rear of the diamond, if Pards gets to coach him to defend but without being the last man then I think theres a place for him.

 

RB isn't his best position the same could be said of Fish though he's an LB but gets brought on in LM

 

Each part of the pitch demands specialist players if we are to progress and not players who can make do, we need the best in the division or rather the best blend of players

[SnailOB]

Can't be helping him that he seems to be a utility player. Already forum users have quoted he is better at either RM, RB or DM.

 

IF he is to be our regular RB then IMO he needs someone like CMFG in front of him to bring him on. Lets be honest, when he plays RB, his cover at RM changes week to week and even then the RM position is a bit 'make do' with what we have at the moment ! Did feel upto the Birmingham game that he looked very assured in RM with Murty behind him as you could see Murty constantly talking to him and offering guidance so he obvioulsy reacts to that.

 

On plus side - can deliver a ball (one of our better ones at that)

On negative - he really does wind me up when he continually backs off when players run at him

 

Overall, do feel that the way some fans single him out is very harsh. Seems some fans just must have a scapegoat for everything !

[Golden Balls]

Er, how many assists does Harding have, from anywhere???

 

I want to see your evidence for judging them differently.

 

To me, there's not a lot between them.

 

Er, how many corners and free kicks does Harding take?

 

All round Harding is a better player and shows how that role should be played. He's a better tackler, quicker, reads the game better, better in the air, better touch, better at taking people on (as in getting to the bar line, therefore getting in a more dangerous cross), has a better shot...seriously, I could go on and on.

 

My evidence for me judging them differently? Well I've been to every game bar Luton.

 

For anyone to think there is not a lot between them simpley doesn't know a lot about football.

Edited 10 January, 2010 by Golden Balls

[AndyNorthernSaints]

This season i think James's best games have been in midfield and he is the best crosser of a ball we have, although he was poor at Leeds along with the rest of midfield. Maybe that game was too big for him?

[Under Weststand]

I think that all the chopping & changing position for LJ hasn't helped him develop. I don't think he is the answer at RB, Ok as an emergency RB. I feel he could become a good defensive holding midfielder, but he needs time to develop into that. By that I mean he needs to be given a decent run at that position to grow into it. The lads been unfortunate really as he's done a decent job wherever he's been asked to play, and continually is asked to fill in whenever & wherever required. but if this continues he will always be a Jack of all trades & master of none.

[Chez]

no pace, seems to bottle tackles, and is crap in the air.

Great on the ball, lots of composure, decent passer, puts in the some great crosses allbeit from too deep.

Great utility player. Can we do better at right back?

[Sour Mash]

no pace, seems to bottle tackles, and is crap in the air.

Great on the ball, lots of composure, decent passer, puts in the some great crosses allbeit from too deep.

Great utility player. Can we do better at right back?

 

Absolute spot on answer, won't find a better description of James' footballing abilities anywhere!

[dubai_phil]

Not that it counts for much as a coach, but IMHO James could benefit from spending a few hours with MLT on his crossing/kicking technique (and NO not a hark bark to SCW days)

 

The games I have seen, I just think his balls into the box would be so much more effective with a flatter faster trajectory on them.

 

He's a damned good squad player. We now seem to be buying quality so eventually others currently in the team will also fit into that role as they get replaced.

 

This season due to injuries we've needed him, he isn't likely to be player of the season but he won't be last in the vote either. he's just a Telfer in disguise, all squads need them

[Weston Saint]

I think that all the chopping & changing position for LJ hasn't helped him develop. I don't think he is the answer at RB, Ok as an emergency RB. I feel he could become a good defensive holding midfielder, but he needs time to develop into that. By that I mean he needs to be given a decent run at that position to grow into it. The lads been unfortunate really as he's done a decent job wherever he's been asked to play, and continually is asked to fill in whenever & wherever required. but if this continues he will always be a Jack of all trades & master of none.

Good points.

[hectors house]

Er, how many corners and free kicks does Harding take?

 

All round Harding is a better player and shows how that role should be played. He's a better tackler, quicker, reads the game better, better in the air, better touch, better at taking people on (as in getting to the bar line, therefore getting in a more dangerous cross), has a better shot...seriously, I could go on and on.

 

My evidence for me judging them differently? Well I've been to every game bar Luton.

 

For anyone to think there is not a lot between them simpley doesn't know a lot about football.

 

If the basis for a correct opinion is how many games you have been to then Alan Pardew has been to every game (including Luton) and every training session. Add to that he has played and managed at the top level and I guess he is fairly qualified? And he seems to rate the lad.

 

That aside you stated that you have been to most games so your thoughts are based on some experience and are worth listening to but then you come out with a line like “For anyone to think there is not a lot between them simply doesn't know a lot about football” - that seems a bit arrogant to me and is not likely to bring anyone around to your point of view?

 

My feeling is that Harding is a better fullback but he is not above criticism. After all he has been playing as a fullback a lot longer (all of his career as far as I am aware), plays there every game for Saints and also has an established left side midfielder (AL) in front of him. James is new to the position, keeps being moved to midfield and then back to RB and it seems most games has a different player in front of him in right midfield.

 

Personally I expect a message board to have its fair share of critics but I just feel that it is not a level playing field. James has to be outstanding otherwise every mistake is analysed but Harding can have a poor game but hardly be mentioned. If I thought every player was treated fairly then I may be more open to criticism of James but I reckon many people on here just jump on the bandwagon. I have been to most home games and IMO whilst he is not a superstar the lad is okay and will only get better with experience. I think the whole debate started because many feel we need to sign a RB but with James/Murty/Thomas (and I believe Perry played RB for Luton) I reckon we have plenty of cover at the moment. Murty first choice without question and then debatable between Thomas and James as both have their strengths and weaknesses but for me both are good enough at this level.

[JackFrost]

Lloyd James at RB very much reminds me of the Jermaine Wright situation.

 

He's trying to do the best he can in a position he just isn't supposed to be in.

 

Graeme Murty is 35 and injury prone, and Pardew doesn't appear to rate Thomas and he could well be on his way soon.

 

Harding should be our first choice at RB

 

I hope James at RB is a short term solution, I'm thinking AP's thoughts were, we'll try him out at RB, if it doesn't happen for him I'll buy someone else to for cover in January.

Edited 10 January, 2010 by JackFrost

[Window Cleaner]

Lloyd James at RB very much reminds me of the Jermaine Wright situation.

 

He's trying to do the best he can in a position he just isn't supposed to be in.

 

Graeme Murty is 35 and injury prone, and Pardew doesn't appear to rate Thomas and he could well be on his way soon.

 

Harding should be our first choice at RB

 

I hope James at RB is a short term solution, I'm thinking AP's thoughts were, we'll try him out at RB, if it doesn't happen for him I'll buy someone else to for cover in January.

 

except that James played most of last season at right back as well.

Something about him must makes coaches and managers think that he's a right back.