Pardews Pre Tranmere comments

[dune]

How different a challenge in Tranmere away on Saturday to tonight?

 

AP: Well the only question mark against this team has been bogged down really by mud, we're kind of a horse race really that doesn't like the mud so i'm sure Tranmere will put some extra water on it and make it nice and boggy but that'll be good for us because we need to overcome that because it is something you can hold against us but i think this teams good enough to cope with any surface but we haven't proved that on a really tricky pitch so perhaps that something we need to cross on Saturday.

[The Kraken]

He really should make better use of commas and grammar.

 

Pardew out ffs.

[St Landrew]

How different a challenge in Tranmere away on Saturday to tonight?

 

AP: Well the only question mark against this team has been bogged down really by mud, we're kind of a horse race really that doesn't like the mud so i'm sure Tranmere will put some extra water on it and make it nice and boggy but that'll be good for us because we need to overcome that because it is something you can hold against us but i think this teams good enough to cope with any surface but we haven't proved that on a really tricky pitch so perhaps that something we need to cross on Saturday.

 

[and take a deep breath]

 

Yeah, I noted that last night. Pretty honest assessment.

[SNSUN]

Away games will always be tougher no matter who we're playing. Nevertheless, with the creativity and form we have shown in the last couple of games, even if Tranmere shut up shop and look for the draw, there's no reason we can't nick a goal or two.

 

Play ugly, win ugly. We can't play attractive football all the time.

[saint_stevo]

So Alpine was in fact right all along

 

http://saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=20451

[scotty]

So Alpine was in fact right all along

 

http://saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=20451

 

 

dangerous words...........

[Nineteen Canteen]

Horses for courses springs to mind and it is probably heresy to suggest but perhaps players like Waigo and maybe even the likes of Lallana and Puncheon should be given the weekend off. These types of game will continue to prove to be wars of attrition than dancing on grass and unless we make some changes the results like those at Wycombe, Exeter and Brentford are likely to continue to intersperse those games where we have the opportunity to show what a great footballing side we can be when conditions dictate.

[beatlesaint]

Horses for courses springs to mind and it is probably heresy to suggest but perhaps players like Waigo and maybe even the likes of Lallana and Puncheon should be given the weekend off. These types of game will continue to prove to be wars of attrition than dancing on grass and unless we make some changes the results like those at Wycombe, Exeter and Brentford are likely to continue to intersperse those games where we have the opportunity to show what a great footballing side we can be when conditions dictate.

 

Who are you bringing into the side to replace Lallana and Puncheon ?

[lambertsrightleg]

Who are you bringing into the side to replace Lallana and Puncheon ?

 

good question. james ont eh right would be more solid but puncheons on fire. maybe holmes on the left?

[beatlesaint]

good question. james ont eh right would be more solid but puncheons on fire. maybe holmes on the left?

 

James is injured anyway.

I would just like to see who 19C nominates for those two replacements to be honest

[Saint_clark]

Don't change the team...AT ALL.

[Legod Third Coming]

Don't change the team...AT ALL.

 

ever

[paulwantsapint]

If tranmere want to shut up shop & try to stop us playing sounds like dead ball practice for Rickie

 

Maybe leave tomorrow & ask to train on stockport's or wigan's pitches fri

[Ken Tone]

With Puncheon and Lallana out wide we'll always create chances. Yeah the pitch will be rubbish, but they'll have to learn to deal with it. We've won on poor pitches before and we will again. We have strikers who will take chances so there's no excuse.

 

I'm pretty confident so long as the first choice midfield is out there. Really found the right balance and quality with Puncheon Hammond Schneiderlin Lallana.

 

Even a muddy pitch usually has some grass on the wings, so if Adam and Jase do stay out wide they'll be ok.

 

K.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Who are you bringing into the side to replace Lallana and Puncheon ?

 

BS, the same players we would bring in if these two get injured from playing uncompromising teams packed with poor players intent on winning the ball at all cost on poor pitches. We have a big squad or have we indentified another reason why are playoff hopes are at best fragile unless we can play all our games on essentially what were premier league grounds a few years ago.

 

I don't know much about Otsemobor but could he play at RM and bring in Thomas at RB for these types of games? Pardew I'm sure has the answer as I would rather win 'ugly' than win playing the beautiful game and risk injury to some our stars that make us a joy to watch at home at the moment.

 

Bottom line is I don't know but neither is it my problem it's just an observation.

[tttdcs]

How different a challenge in Tranmere away on Saturday to tonight?

 

AP: Well the only question mark against this team has been bogged down really by mud, we're kind of a horse race really that doesn't like the mud so i'm sure Tranmere will put some extra water on it and make it nice and boggy but that'll be good for us because we need to overcome that because it is something you can hold against us but i think this teams good enough to cope with any surface but we haven't proved that on a really tricky pitch so perhaps that something we need to cross on Saturday.

 

It will be good practise for Wembley.............. Rooney said tonight that the pitch is awful and not acceptable.

[opthomps]

I don't think Prenton park will be that bad will it? It's not used for rugby or anything crazy like that is it?

 

Same team for me all the way

[Saint Fan CaM]

Even a muddy pitch usually has some grass on the wings, so if Adam and Jase do stay out wide they'll be ok.

 

K.

 

 

Absolutely correct. This is what we didn't do at Wycombe - tried to play far too centrally and consequently tried passing through a cabbage patch bog. Even Wycombe got it wide at every available opportunity.

[Ponty]

It will be good practise for Wembley.............. Rooney said tonight that the pitch is awful and not acceptable.

 

Well, now they've go the 2 bob Carling Cup and a poxy England friendly out of the way, they can do some groundswork on it ready for the big match.

[CanadaSaint]

I'm not sure what needs changing.

 

On dodgy pitches the quagmire is usually right up the middle. Keep the ball wide, attack down the flanks right into the final third, and resist the urge to play Rugby League up the middle.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Edit: Sorry, Ken, I missed your post.

Edited 3 March, 2010 by CanadaSaint
Apology to Ken Tone

[beatlesaint]

BS, the same players we would bring in if these two get injured from playing uncompromising teams packed with poor players intent on winning the ball at all cost on poor pitches. We have a big squad or have we indentified another reason why are playoff hopes are at best fragile unless we can play all our games on essentially what were premier league grounds a few years ago.

 

I don't know much about Otsemobor but could he play at RM and bring in Thomas at RB for these types of games? Pardew I'm sure has the answer as I would rather win 'ugly' than win playing the beautiful game and risk injury to some our stars that make us a joy to watch at home at the moment.

 

Bottom line is I don't know but neither is it my problem it's just an observation.

 

Well to be honest I think your observation is totally flawed. For one you dont know what sort of pitches Puncheon is used to playing on, he may not get "mud bound" like some apparently do.

When Morgan was out injured at Wycombe AP bought in Antonio who went off after 37 minutes, it wasnt an injury, so he obviously wasn't effective. Add to that you want a player you admit not knowing much about to play right midfield ? ummm.

 

Players who are "struggling" on anything that does not resemble a crown green bowls surface should not be taken out of such games, they need to learn how to play on these surfaces. Its not American Football where you have certain players only capable of playing certain moves.

 

The problem is that if we keep hearing about these bad pitches then the players will get a mental block about playing anywhere that isnt ideal, they will then be beaten before they step off the coach.

 

They need to adapt to these surfaces, AP has as good as admitted it. It is one of the last bits of the jigsaw that needs putting into place to ensure that this club gets promoted next season at the latest.

 

Chopping and changing the side during the Cup runs was after all the reason given for our dropping off the pace in the League. Introducing that policy again for tricky pitches would IMHO be folly.

Edited 4 March, 2010 by beatlesaint

[doddisalegend]

Don't change the team...AT ALL.

 

Well we're going to have to for the JPT at least two (three if you count Seabourne) of our strongest side are cup tied.

[alpine_saint]

So Alpine was in fact right all along

 

http://saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=20451

 

No, no, no...

 

"it's nothing more than a troll/ wind up attempt" (tm Saint_Clark)

[saintmonkey1979]

Why cant we just over water one of our training pitches (we still have 2 + the match pitch dont we?) and turn it into a L1 pitch and play practice matches on it and get used to the conditions. For me that beats disrupting the squad by making changes and trying to fit square pegs into round holes as far fitting players into unfamiliar or unprefered positons.

[The9]

Absolutely correct. This is what we didn't do at Wycombe - tried to play far too centrally and consequently tried passing through a cabbage patch bog. Even Wycombe got it wide at every available opportunity.

 

Not sure that's true, Puncheon had a lot of the ball (and was the nearest we had to a decent player), but we just didn't seem to have possession very much in that match. Wycombe were able to run through the "mud" and we were just giving it back to them all the time despite not really trying to pass it much.

[The9]

Why cant we just over water one of our training pitches (we still have 2 + the match pitch dont we?) and turn it into a L1 pitch and play practice matches on it and get used to the conditions. For me that beats disrupting the squad by making changes and trying to fit square pegs into round holes as far fitting players into unfamiliar or unprefered positons.

 

Risk of injury, I suppose ?

[irishsaint83]

I don't get this at all - how can we have "professional" players who grew up playing on sh!te turf, now got a taste of the creme de la creme of finely cut grass at St Marys and are incapable of pulling expected results away because of the "mucky" ground....... I can understand Manchester United complaining when they are away in the Champions League to "FC Never Heard off" who play in front of 2,000 somewhere in Romania.... but ffs, were league one and have had to play on poor surface quite regularly as has half our bloody team for the past few seasons... Lambert, Seabourne, Barnard etc - this is the level they have played at and if there not able to play dog eat dog football on semi waterlogged mud baths, how the hell have they lasted this long? Fact is, we've been sh!te at times and YES the conditions have gone against us at times but no team wants to play on a pitch where the ball stops dead in a pile of mud every two seconds. We just need the likes of Lallana to stop thinking he is Brazillian when we have to play on though surfaces, neat tricky football is not going to work.

[Scummer]

What were the pitches / weather like at:

 

Southend

Oldham

Hartlepool

Walsall

 

?

[Colbury]

Makes me laugh professional footballers moaning about poor surfaces.

 

They should try playing down T******d Rec on a Sunday morning.

[Charlie Wayman]

There is a lot of bleating going on about muddy pitches. Why don't they adapt by training on muddy pitches instead of effing Astro Turf or whatever other synthetic concoction they us up at Staplewood for "pitch perfect"

 

For Heavens sake man train on Millbrook Rec or somewhere similar after a heavy weekend of use for pub league matches to get the effect you need... you don't need an 'O' level in nuclear effing physics to work that one out.

 

Stop bleatin', start thinking, get training on Effing MUD!!!!

[saintmonkey1979]

Didn't i say something similar?

[Scummer]

Didn't i say something similar?

 

Yes you did but some people like the sound of their own voice.

[Charlie Wayman]

Didn't i say something similar?

 

Fair Do's! If you and I have enough common sense to work this out how come our be-striped pampered friends who are paid to be quick witted haven't worked it out.

 

Bugger me, they say it's an "easy" game to play from the stands.. I'm beginning to think it IS!

[Junior Mullet]

There is a lot of bleating going on about muddy pitches. Why don't they adapt by training on muddy pitches instead of effing Astro Turf or whatever other synthetic concoction they us up at Staplewood for "pitch perfect"

 

For Heavens sake man train on Millbrook Rec or somewhere similar after a heavy weekend of use for pub league matches to get the effect you need... you don't need an 'O' level in nuclear effing physics to work that one out.

 

Stop bleatin', start thinking, get training on Effing MUD!!!!

 

I said this on another thread a while back. The pithces at Staplewood are beautiful and of a similar quality to SMS. I think they need a boggy pitch there to play on in the build up to games like Wycombe. It sounds silly and I can't beleive I am saying this but feel this is the best option in view of some of our away performaces on cruddy pitches.

[saintmonkey1979]

Fair Do's! If you and I have enough common sense to work this out how come our be-striped pampered friends who are paid to be quick witted haven't worked it out.

 

Bugger me, they say it's an "easy" game to play from the stands.. I'm beginning to think it IS!

 

I didn't get my wisdom from the stands. It all came from Winchester and District sunday morning football. Now THATS an education in poor pitch play

[Barry the Badger]

I never really understand the mentality of "It's a crap pitch, we had better bring in some crap players and leave out the skillfull ones".

[del boy]

ever

Cant see us mounting much of a challenge for the 2050 FA Cup then

[pap]

Crap pitch = crap excuse.

 

Plenty of decent suggestions on this thread already on how to overcome that. Every other team in the League has to play on this crap. The main difference between us and them is that they tend to play on crap week-in, week-out.

 

Looking forward to Tranmere. Third away game this year (and actually the easiest for me).

[Lets B Avenue]

I didn't get my wisdom from the stands. It all came from Winchester and District sunday morning football. Now THATS an education in poor pitch play

 

Played in that in the early eighties. We got a side up from our cricket club and played our home games at Fryern Rec. Won Divs 3 and 2 in successive seasons playing at such fine stadia as Worthies and Twyford.

 

Played a s/f against an army team from the Light Division. They included Horace Notice, later to be British Heavyweight Boxing champ. I bounced 20 yards off him going for a header. :confused:

[Nineteen Canteen]

Well to be honest I think your observation is totally flawed. For one you dont know what sort of pitches Puncheon is used to playing on, he may not get "mud bound" like some apparently do.

When Morgan was out injured at Wycombe AP bought in Antonio who went off after 37 minutes, it wasnt an injury, so he obviously wasn't effective. Add to that you want a player you admit not knowing much about to play right midfield ? ummm.

 

Players who are "struggling" on anything that does not resemble a crown green bowls surface should not be taken out of such games, they need to learn how to play on these surfaces. Its not American Football where you have certain players only capable of playing certain moves.

 

The problem is that if we keep hearing about these bad pitches then the players will get a mental block about playing anywhere that isnt ideal, they will then be beaten before they step off the coach.

 

They need to adapt to these surfaces, AP has as good as admitted it. It is one of the last bits of the jigsaw that needs putting into place to ensure that this club gets promoted next season at the latest.

 

Chopping and changing the side during the Cup runs was after all the reason given for our dropping off the pace in the League. Introducing that policy again for tricky pitches would IMHO be folly.

 

Totally flawed, or just flawed? We could have a reasonable debate here BS but not if you are prone to exaggeration. The example I gave was given without knowledge as I said of that players ability to play out of position as many do. We could even convert to a 4-3-3 and throw in Wotton with Schnederlin and Hammond in midfield and play one of a few options to play alongside Lambert and Barnard.

 

Looking at some of our less decent results they tend to be when Hammond and Schneiderlin are not both present. Schneiderlin being out at Wycombe was underestimated by Pardew in hindsight and equally Hammond being out and Schneiderlin on the bench didn't help at Brentford.

 

I think a manager's ability to know the strengths of his individual players and field a side according to the conditions and the opposition is key. Simply keeping a winning side is not always possible or logical and surprising and enjoyable as Tuesday night was it is surely not beyond the realms of possibility that Tranmere would have done their homework on us and snuff out our expectations and worse any undue over-confidence in the side regardless of what Pardew will be telling them.

 

The fact Antonio was substituted at Wycombe for tactical reasons goes to prove my point in choosing horses for courses and IMO in a squad as large as ours we should be able to identify obvious alternatives to not playing Lallana and Waigo for example. Is it my fault I can make a reasonable suggestion but can't readily identify a solution without getting the usual over the top response? Perhaps, you are suggesting that we don't have the great squad and strength in depth that everyone seems to allude to?

 

I agree with you regards Puncheon and by all accounts he was our best player at Wycombe but remember I did say maybe he could be rested and primed for the Leeds and Swndon home games that will both be proverbial 6 pointers especially the latter.

 

I am juut making suggestions and surprised my logic is 'totally flawed'. Knowing we have a problem playing clubs on bad pitches more intent to spoil our own game plan than play their own is it not totally illogical to not try something different to overcome the problem? What that difference is, is open to debate and given we are not going to Charlton, Norwich, Leeds etc on Saturday and therefore probably playing on a pitch more primed for a ploughing contest than billiards, it's a debate worth having.

 

We don't use the wings so beat them through the middle with our 3 strongests midfielders and ensure the game is over by half time by playing 3 up front. More flawed logic? Maybe but playing the same 11 or formation is unlikely to work if the pitch is poor and Tranmere play to spoil and take a draw.

[sadoldgit]

So Alpine was in fact right all along

 

Even a broken watch is right twice a day!

[alpine_saint]

So Alpine was in fact right all along

 

Even a broken watch is right twice a day!

 

Which makes me right...lets see....twice per day more than you are

[batterseasaint]

Seen it mentioned a couple of times in this thread about Antonio being taken off at Wycombe, with the intimation being that he couldn't handle the bad pitch.

 

The way I saw it, the reason Antonio was taken off was not because of his own performance, but because it just wasn't working with Puncheon in central midfield. And rather than replace Puncheon with Wotton, Pards decided to shift Puncheon out to the wing, and that obviously meant Antonio had to go.

[Junction 9]

I take it there is a certain "standard" of pitch a L1 team has to provide in order to stage the game? If so what is the criteria? They can't be that bad surely.

[brmbrm]

So Alpine was in fact right all along

 

Even a broken watch is right twice a day!

 

... but wrong an infinite number of times. Not very good odds are they, really?

[Nineteen Canteen]

Seen it mentioned a couple of times in this thread about Antonio being taken off at Wycombe, with the intimation being that he couldn't handle the bad pitch.

 

The way I saw it, the reason Antonio was taken off was not because of his own performance, but because it just wasn't working with Puncheon in central midfield. And rather than replace Puncheon with Wotton, Pards decided to shift Puncheon out to the wing, and that obviously meant Antonio had to go.

 

That may well be the case but I wasn't at the game, having to be content with the Merrington musings which are not always an accurate reflection. The opinion I got was Antonio was not involved and struggling but if you were there then I would be happy to take your word.

 

It's a worry though that the common denominator for below par performances away from home is the inability to field our first choice central midfield pairing and that Puncheon is unlikely to fulfill that role should the need occur in accordance with your observation.

 

There are two reasons why we won't make the play offs IMO and it's nothing to do with bad pitches and poor teams and their spoiling tactics.

 

1) Pardew's intent to go for glory in the cup competitions.

2) The club's inability to sign a recognised and credible Central Midfielder.

 

I know we are all looking forward to a Wembley final but I would trade it in without blinking to be 4pts off 6th instead of 4pts off the false summit of 9th.

[Charlie Wayman]

I take it there is a certain "standard" of pitch a L1 team has to provide in order to stage the game? If so what is the criteria? They can't be that bad surely.

 

You would have thought so wouldn't you but knowing the FL they probably don't bother to police it and let's be cynical about it as well, unless a pitch is frozen solid and opens them up to prosecution by the HSE in case of a bad accident they seem to be conditioned to the mentality that the game must go on to avoid the hassle of costly last minute postponements, refunds and fixture congestion.

 

"Never mind the quality feel the wealth... "

[Bevans]

Seen it mentioned a couple of times in this thread about Antonio being taken off at Wycombe, with the intimation being that he couldn't handle the bad pitch.

 

The way I saw it, the reason Antonio was taken off was not because of his own performance, but because it just wasn't working with Puncheon in central midfield. And rather than replace Puncheon with Wotton, Pards decided to shift Puncheon out to the wing, and that obviously meant Antonio had to go.

 

I would agree with that. Antonio was not having a particularly bad game (taking into account the overall performances) however Puncheon in the middle, especially with Hammond looking somewhat non-existent, really wasn't working.

 

Personally I would have taken Lallana off because he seemed to struggle all night and stuck Punch on the left and bring Wotton on in the middle.

 

I have to say that I don't think it's a coincidence that we were woeful with Morgan out of the side. He is central (literally) to the way we play and we looked rather lost without him, the ideas just weren't there from the middle of the park. I'd be interested to know (should anybody have the inclination to look it up) what our stats are like with / without Morgan in the side?

[beatlesaint]

The fact Antonio was substituted at Wycombe for tactical reasons goes to prove my point in choosing horses for courses and IMO in a squad as large as ours we should be able to identify obvious alternatives to not playing Lallana and Waigo for example. Is it my fault I can make a reasonable suggestion but can't readily identify a solution without getting the usual over the top response? Perhaps, you are suggesting that we don't have the great squad and strength in depth that everyone seems to allude to?

 

I agree with you regards Puncheon and by all accounts he was our best player at Wycombe but remember I did say maybe he could be rested and primed for the Leeds and Swndon home games that will both be proverbial 6 pointers especially the latter.

 

I am juut making suggestions and surprised my logic is 'totally flawed'. Knowing we have a problem playing clubs on bad pitches more intent to spoil our own game plan than play their own is it not totally illogical to not try something different to overcome the problem? What that difference is, is open to debate and given we are not going to Charlton, Norwich, Leeds etc on Saturday and therefore probably playing on a pitch more primed for a ploughing contest than billiards, it's a debate worth having.

 

We don't use the wings so beat them through the middle with our 3 strongests midfielders and ensure the game is over by half time by playing 3 up front. More flawed logic? Maybe but playing the same 11 or formation is unlikely to work if the pitch is poor and Tranmere play to spoil and take a draw.

 

Sorry 19C if I offended you by saying your logic is "totally flawed", perhaps just flawed. Unfortunately you have only compunded that ill thought out logic by suggesting we play 3 in midfield and 3 up front. Simple reason being, when a pitch is a mud bath which area of the pitch is most likely to be worst affected ? You should by now be saying to yourself "through the middle" !! Unless the whole thing is a ploughed field then the wings nearly always retain an element of grass and are easier to play on. The other point to remember IF playing 4-3-3 is that you would, currently, have to play Papa or Lallana as with Connolly not fully fit yet we are limited on choice.

 

As to your point about me questioning our strength of squad then yes I am. I dont believe it is that strong once you get past the first 15 or 16 that AP normally picks from. With James out injured, and now Holmes again as well the choice of who plays through the middle if Hammond or Morgan are not availiable becomes limited. He will play Wotton but who else ? Doesn't seem to rate Simon Gillett very much so you would have to move Puncheon back into the middle and go with Antonio. Puncheon through the middle seemed not to work at Wycombe according to those who went. We may have the squad numbers but out of the 40 odd players listed on the matchday programme every week then I defy you to get past 20 and still retain any real quality.

 

With Connolly, James, Murty and Holmes all unfit for selection on Saturday removing Puncheon, Lallana and/or Papa would leave us extremely light. If we had signed that one extra quality central midfielder like Stock or Danns then just maybe we could do it but then you open a whole new cann of worms by deciding who to leave on the bench every week. Quality players cannot be used as just cover in League 1, they would never come here for cameo appearences.

Edited 5 March, 2010 by beatlesaint

[Gordon Mockles]

Horses for courses springs to mind and it is probably heresy to suggest but perhaps players like Waigo and maybe even the likes of Lallana and Puncheon should be given the weekend off. These types of game will continue to prove to be wars of attrition than dancing on grass and unless we make some changes the results like those at Wycombe, Exeter and Brentford are likely to continue to intersperse those games where we have the opportunity to show what a great footballing side we can be when conditions dictate.

 

 

Thank god you're not the manager! You'd change our emphatically winning starting 11 then & actually drop Puncheon & Lallana after their last 2 performances?! Who would you start with instead, Wotton, Pulis & Gillet?

 

It take all sorts....

 

PMSL:rolleyes: