Reality Check

[spyinthesky]

As a long standing supporter, who has generally seen it all before, I never believed the hype that we would walk away with the League.

 

Too many disappointments to expect Saints to find it easy.

 

However whilst it is easy to condemn the team and the manager for 1 point out of 6, the fact is we are creating (but not taking chances) and have given away two soft goals from otherwise sound (ish) defensive performances.

 

On another day at least one of Barnard's efforts would have gone in and with a bit of daylight between the teams think we would have gone on to win handsomely, as really we should have done against Plymouth after a sparkling first half performance.

 

As most people realise the team is lacking in pace and creativity and a big striker is needed to take the onus off of Lambert who does not look fit.

 

I am sure this season will not be easy and it is worthy of note that both Nottm Forest & Leeds took 3 years to get out of L1

[Thedelldays]

neither forest or leeds had the financial muscle we have to bring in players from the league above/keep players who are clearly too good for this league...

[70's Mike]

neither forest or leeds had the financial muscle we have to bring in players from the league above/keep players who are clearly too good for this league...

 

just because they came from the league above does not make them good players, league one is about working hard, taking chances and most of all being a team not a collection of talented individuals.

[hypochondriac]

We haven't taken our chances. Our tactics are wrong and this needs to be addressed.

[aintforever]

It is also worthy of note that both Leicester and Norwich spent A LOT less and ****ed this league at the first attempt.

[70's Mike]

We haven't taken our chances. Our tactics are wrong and this needs to be addressed.

 

was thinking about the tactics during the second half, reminded me of England in world cup, sticking with 4-4-2 and no penetration from midfield.

AP needs to act soon or he will be out of a job, whether that is right or weong it will happen

[hypochondriac]

was thinking about the tactics during the second half, reminded me of England in world cup, sticking with 4-4-2 and no penetration from midfield.

AP needs to act soon or he will be out of a job, whether that is right or weong it will happen

 

 

We never spread the play either. I think we did it once in the whole match. At one point, everyone had drifted to the right side of the pitch with a huge gap on the left. We broke forwards and the guy with the ball had to wait for someone to run into the space on the left and the move broke down. We are so ridiculously easy to defend against. Close us down quickly and we have no answer. Our solution is to fire balls aimlessly into the box which is a piece of p*ss for the invariably massive CB to head away. Why when we are so good at playing football on the deck to we feel the need to launch it at every opportunity? IMO that comes from Pardew.

[70's Mike]

concerned about Harding his combination with Lallana down the left was vital in home games last season but rarely did he get behind defence today, not sure if that is because of concern regarding Jaidi's lack of pace but it has removed another attacking option.

Whilst i appreciate we have only played 2 games, a win next saturday becomes important because we could be 9 points behind with a lot of teams between us and top spot

[dan17]

We never spread the play either. I think we did it once in the whole match. At one point, everyone had drifted to the right side of the pitch with a huge gap on the left. We broke forwards and the guy with the ball had to wait for someone to run into the space on the left and the move broke down. We are so ridiculously easy to defend against. Close us down quickly and we have no answer. Our solution is to fire balls aimlessly into the box which is a piece of p*ss for the invariably massive CB to head away. Why when we are so good at playing football on the deck to we feel the need to launch it at every opportunity? IMO that comes from Pardew.

 

This is what is confusing me too!!!

[Stu Man Do]

It is also worthy of note that both Leicester and Norwich spent A LOT less and ****ed this league at the first attempt.

 

Which is a fair point aside from the fact that both those sides kept a good amount of their Championship squads from the season before. Our whole team needed re-building as I'm sure you'd agree Dave Mcgoaldrought or Rickie Lambert? ;-)

[Rebel]

to be honest I think both Pardew and Cortese have to take the blame for our slow start to the season - which looks like it will cost us automatic promotion coz at this rate it will be the middle of September before we've got our team sorted out - got the players match fit that is and brought in the players the squad is missing to challenge for the title that is - and that means we'll probably have lost 12 or so points we really should have put in the bag

 

today we looked at least five players short of a squad good enough to win League One - 1 CB, 2 Wingers, 1 RB, 1 LB, 2 CM and a CF

 

we've started this season much weaker than we finished last season without Waigo, Antonio and a clutch of midfielders gone - on top of that the players aren't match fit and team hasn't gelled yet

 

pre-season was a joke - the first team played 2 possibly 3 half hearted games - whereas we should have played at least 6 if not more semi-competitive games so they could hit the ground running

 

there are massive gaps in the squad - which I believe will be filled - but it could be too late by then!

 

at the moment we are not evening running - we are walking into trouble

[forever a red and white]

this is my view on things:

 

The player's don't look fully fit, partly because of injuries and not sure of the relevance of pre-season towards this.

Barnard was desperately unlucky not to get on the scoresheet, Rickie was.

 

Antonio and Waigo didn;t make the squad, but the key to the reletavie success they provided was that they enables us to change our shape i.e. to 4-3-3. Thats why we could score so many becuase of the flexibility we possessed.

 

Pardew tried it today for ten mins, puttinf Barnard wide left? and finally after 80 mins gave in and made a sub, which Chamberlain and Connoly, parti with his movement made some difference.

 

Pardew has assembled a good squad with some sensible signings. But too often he won;t change things and although I admire his sensinble approach in waiting for movement and the right moment; the facts are we need to get a couple of loans in and get a settled team and just get on with it.

 

Lets not forget, no other team has had to deal with the death of their owner just yet, and missing a game so early in the season has certainly done us now favours.

 

STAY PATIENT and KEEP THE FAITH

 

WIFM COYR ETC ETC ETC

[alpine_saint]

This season is unfolding (unravelling ?) in an entirely predictable manner.

 

Key issues were highlighted last season

Pre-season preparation was a joke

Pre-season transfer activity was a joke

[Deppo]

If we carry on this form we will end the season with 23 points. We are on track to be relegated.

[niceandfriendly]

Why when we are so good at playing football on the deck to we feel the need to launch it at every opportunity? IMO that comes from Pardew.

 

absof***inglutely. I like AP and don't want him to be sacked but this tactic is confusing and frustrating the hell out of me.

[eelpie]

We on this forum are pretty much in agreement (surprise, surprise) in diagnosing the teams weaknesses and faults and it is so frustrating watching the predictable.

Why is AP so expressionless and inactive on the touchline? He should be bollocking the players for not getting stuck in, for failing to win the ball so often. A repeat (lack of) performance of how they played against Plymouth.

Simply not good enough.

[hypochondriac]

This season is unfolding (unravelling ?) in an entirely predictable manner.

 

Key issues were highlighted last season

Pre-season preparation was a joke

Pre-season transfer activity was a joke

 

I know you are incapable of talking to me in a sensible manner, but I agree with that.

[hypochondriac]

We on this forum are pretty much in agreement (surprise, surprise) in diagnosing the teams weaknesses and faults and it is so frustrating watching the predictable.

Why is AP so expressionless and inactive on the touchline? He should be bollocking the players for not getting stuck in, for failing to win the ball so often. A repeat (lack of) performance of how they played against Plymouth.

Simply not good enough.

 

I was thinking that today. I want to see him get angry once in a while.

[bpsaint]

What worries me with the squad at the moment is at the hour mark today I was trying to figure out who we could bring on that would provide a bit of spark to change the game and there isn't anyone. Connolly is a like for like replacement for Barnard and whilst OXO has some raw talent he is still young and I don't see him having the same impact that Walcott or Bale had.

 

At least Waigo gave us something different and quite often swung games in our favour when he came on. Not saying we should resign him but we definitely need some players who offer a decent alternative.

[John B]

today we looked at least five players short of a squad good enough to win League One - 1 CB, 2 Wingers, 1 RB, 1 LB, 2 CM and a CF

 

 

I think this could apply to all the clubs in the League we have a good squad and with a couple of additions will do well.

[70's Mike]

We on this forum are pretty much in agreement (surprise, surprise) in diagnosing the teams weaknesses and faults and it is so frustrating watching the predictable.

Why is AP so expressionless and inactive on the touchline? He should be bollocking the players for not getting stuck in, for failing to win the ball so often. A repeat (lack of) performance of how they played against Plymouth.

Simply not good enough.

 

watching AP yesterday we let others go out and do the shouting, thought crossed my mind that he looked like a dead man walking

[Windmill Arm 2]

This season is unfolding (unravelling ?) in an entirely predictable manner.

 

Key issues were highlighted last season

Pre-season preparation was a joke

Pre-season transfer activity was a joke

Two games in and the usual hysterical tarts who never attend matches have started. Mods, this forum is shyte, i'm off !!

[trousers]

I'm just back from 2 weeks holiday. Anyone care to summarise the last two weeks before I wade through the forum?

 

Thanks.

[Fan The Flames]

Do people really think we now can't make automatic promotion. I thought we would miss Antonio's inventiveness and I thought we might have splash some more cash, but even without those two things its too early to write the season off.

Edited 23 August, 2010 by Fan The Flames

[WATERSIDEIFASAINT]

If we don't get these necessary players in fast we will definateley miss automatic promotion imo.Our squad does not have enough depth and some of the 1st 11 seem complacent and unmotivated at the moment due to lack of decent competition in our squad.

 

We will probably also have the upheaval of AP being sacked in the next few games if things don't change fast which probably won't help our cause for the automatics

[derry]

watching AP yesterday we let others go out and do the shouting' date=' thought crossed my mind that he looked like a dead man walking[/quote']

 

What was that players huddle about, before the players went in at half time.

[70's Mike]

What was that players huddle about, before the players went in at half time.

 

Getting their excuses ready?

[ThorpG]

to be honest I think both Pardew and Cortese have to take the blame for our slow start to the season - which looks like it will cost us automatic promotion coz at this rate it will be the middle of September before we've got our team sorted out - got the players match fit that is and brought in the players the squad is missing to challenge for the title that is - and that means we'll probably have lost 12 or so points we really should have put in the bag

 

today we looked at least five players short of a squad good enough to win League One - 1 CB, 2 Wingers, 1 RB, 1 LB, 2 CM and a CF

 

we've started this season much weaker than we finished last season without Waigo, Antonio and a clutch of midfielders gone - on top of that the players aren't match fit and team hasn't gelled yet

 

pre-season was a joke - the first team played 2 possibly 3 half hearted games - whereas we should have played at least 6 if not more semi-competitive games so they could hit the ground running

 

there are massive gaps in the squad - which I believe will be filled - but it could be too late by then!

 

at the moment we are not evening running - we are walking into trouble

 

 

'Will cost us automatic promotion' - really? Most of these comments are so knee jerk. According to the stats we had 19 chances with 9 shots on target - to score just one of these is unusual, it was just a bad day. Performance was OK, nothing special, but not terrible either against a team packing defense and midfield. Most times we play like that we will win comfortably. As the team play more games they will get more ryhtmn, match sharpness etc...

 

It is likely we will bring in 1 - 2 players over the next few days, as Pardew has hinted at, which will just create that bit more competition for places which we are maybe missing at the moment, and providing that one of these players is a quicker, attacking player a la Antonion or Waigo then we will have the bit of variety that we are currently missing in tight games like yesterday.

 

If we had won two games out of two people would be saying 'calm down it is 46 games, a marathon not a sprint' yet somehow when we don't win the first two it is a disaster and you would think our title challenge was over. Things are never as bad or as great as they seem and by the time we get to the business end of the season I am sure we will be in the mix. You can't win a title in August and you can't lose one either.

[toofarnorth]

We never spread the play either. I think we did it once in the whole match. At one point, everyone had drifted to the right side of the pitch with a huge gap on the left. We broke forwards and the guy with the ball had to wait for someone to run into the space on the left and the move broke down. We are so ridiculously easy to defend against. Close us down quickly and we have no answer. Our solution is to fire balls aimlessly into the box which is a piece of p*ss for the invariably massive CB to head away. Why when we are so good at playing football on the deck to we feel the need to launch it at every opportunity? IMO that comes from Pardew.

 

Are we really that good on the deck? We could barely string a few passes together at times yesterday with simple balls going astray. Absolutely no penetration from midfield, with very little in the way of creativity. We made a few decent passes at times but then too often cut inside and ran into a wall of defenders.

[John B]

Despite a reasonable performance last night we are no where near getting a team like Bolton to challenge in the Premier League.

 

 

It is going to take money luck time and hardwork

[St_Tel49]

It is also worthy of note that both Leicester and Norwich spent A LOT less and ****ed this league at the first attempt.

 

Starting with better players in the first place.

[up and away]

Pardew has decided to wait for better players, rather than accept less immediately. I don't know if that is right or wrong and can easily accept that he may be correct and the loss of a few points now can be rewarded by greater dividends later down the line, if we do get those better players. That's a valid decision and it would be unfair not to give him time for that to unravel.

 

What I do not accept is the hoofing or lack of ideas is not down to him. How long or how many players does he need to get that to work? Even Poortvliet sorted that out from the beginning of a shortened pre-season with youth team players. After all this time, the solidity of the midfield has never been permanently addressed, always resurfacing to bite us in the arse. We need someone like Fonte holding the base of that midfield together. I have already made my point about prioritising the league and accept we were not truly bad in the league, albeit against two poor teams. That said, we always seem to have the measure of any team that try to play football against us.

 

Very similar to last season and the quality of the players we get in, will decide whether this one is going to be any different. Though I don't feel Pardew is doing himself any favours with some of his decisions and we should have done better with what we have, it will all come down to those players we get in.

[Weston Saint]

Totally agree with up and away. Good post

[SnailOB]

We've heard plenty about AP waiting for 'better' players but i am starting to have my doubts about this. He has been saying for a while that signings on the way and so far we have signed Guly who is an unknown quantity. Wouldn't class that as waiting for better players.

 

That said - I still believe this team/squad is able to beat anything in this division so don't believe we are desparate for 4-5 more players. What they do need to do is start turning the plentiful chances we have had into goals pretty soon.

[tartanowl]

It's quite simple. If we don't win this league, it'll either be won by a team going back up at the first attempt, or a team achieving more than us on far less money. So it has to be seen as a management issue. We clearly have more resources than any other L1 side. Even if we spend nothing now, we've spent more, pay more wages and have players who Championship, and some Premiership teams would like.

 

So yes, it's very high expectations, but so it should be in such a low league. For me, even coming 2nd means someone elsewhere has done a far better job over the season than Pardew in getting the best out of their resources.

 

What is your current wage budget?

[Saints foreva]

It's quite simple. If we don't win this league, it'll either be won by a team going back up at the first attempt, or a team achieving more than us on far less money. So it has to be seen as a management issue. We clearly have more resources than any other L1 side. Even if we spend nothing now, we've spent more, pay more wages and have players who Championship, and some Premiership teams would like.

 

So yes, it's very high expectations, but so it should be in such a low league. For me, even coming 2nd means someone elsewhere has done a far better job over the season than Pardew in getting the best out of their resources.

 

My guess would be that Sheffield Wednesday have a bigger wage bill than us.

[derry]

The better managers make their teams perform better than expected, for example Eddie Howe at Bournemouth. Pardew doesn't do that, at the moment the allegedly best squad in the league isn't performing to par never mind better.

[Bakovnetski]

 

today we looked at least five players short of a squad good enough to win League One - 1 CB, 2 Wingers, 1 RB, 1 LB, 2 CM and a CF

 

 

So that means 8 Saints players on the park are good enough in your opinion?

 

Then we do not have much of a first team!!

[CB Fry]

My guess would be that Sheffield Wednesday have a bigger wage bill than us.

 

 

My guess would be they don't. We're the biggest spenders, transfers and wages, by a mile. By an absolute mile.

[NickG]

to be honest I think both Pardew and Cortese have to take the blame for our slow start to the season - which looks like it will cost us automatic promotion coz at this rate it will be the middle of September before we've got our team sorted out - got the players match fit that is and brought in the players the squad is missing to challenge for the title that is - and that means we'll probably have lost 12 or so points we really should have put in the bag

 

today we looked at least five players short of a squad good enough to win League One - 1 CB, 2 Wingers, 1 RB, 1 LB, 2 CM and a CF

 

we've started this season much weaker than we finished last season without Waigo, Antonio and a clutch of midfielders gone - on top of that the players aren't match fit and team hasn't gelled yet

 

pre-season was a joke - the first team played 2 possibly 3 half hearted games - whereas we should have played at least 6 if not more semi-competitive games so they could hit the ground running

 

there are massive gaps in the squad - which I believe will be filled - but it could be too late by then!

 

at the moment we are not evening running - we are walking into trouble

 

There are not massive gaps in the squad - this squad should be good enough to get promoted, hopefully will improve a bit further. I bet that opposition supporters would look at our squad in envy already. We are getting greedy.

 

This first 11 (but with a worse RB) was doing well enough for promotion last season. Yes we are lacking a fast impact sub (although don't know why sub is suddenly the most important position!?) but not much else.

[alpine_saint]

There are not massive gaps in the squad - this squad should be good enough to get promoted, hopefully will improve a bit further. I bet that opposition supporters would look at our squad in envy already. We are getting greedy.

 

This first 11 (but with a worse RB) was doing well enough for promotion last season. Yes we are lacking a fast impact sub (although don't know why sub is suddenly the most important position!?) but not much else.

 

There are massive gaps in the squad. Stop spinning and deal with it.

[Barry the Badger]

There are massive gaps in the squad. Stop spinning and deal with it.

 

No, there aren't.

 

I can give you two players in each position and these players should be capable of promotion.

 

GK: Davis/Bialkowski

LB: Harding/Dickson

RB: Richardson/Butterfield

CB: Fonte/Martin

CB: Jaidi/Seaborne

LM: Lallana/Mills

RM: Puncheon/Oxlade-Chaimberlain

CM: Scneiderlin/Guly

CM: Hammond/Wotton

ST: Barnard/Connoly

ST: Lambert/??

 

Ok, so we are one short. But really aside from that this squad should be good enough to challenge. There is a tendancy to always think we need more players, more players, more players, rather than focus on what really matters, which is making the (quite frankly excellent) team we already have play better!

 

Of course you can always improve the squad, but I believe our players are already good enough and now it's about getting them playing like they were from January onwards last season.

[Torres]

There are not "massive gaps" in the squad - missing decent backups for CM and the wide men is not a massive gap. It really, really, isn't.

[alpine_saint]

No, there aren't.

 

I can give you two players in each position and these players should be capable of promotion.

 

GK: Davis/Bialkowski -OK

LB: Harding/Dickson -Maybe, Dickson not yet proven

RB: Richardson/Butterfield - Maybe, neither proven

CB: Fonte/Martin - OK, can agree here

CB: Jaidi/Seaborne - NO

LM: Lallana/Mills - Maybe, never been completely convinced by Mills

RM: Puncheon/Oxlade-Chaimberlain - NO - not convinced by Puncheon, A O-C has great potential but I doubt can sustain a level this season to make a key difference

CM: Scneiderlin/Guly - Maybe - Goolie not proven, Schneiderlin hasnt got back in the groove yet.

CM: Hammond/Wotton - NO

ST: Barnard/Connoly - Maybe - not exaclty found their shooting boots yet

ST: Lambert/?? - NO - simply because Rickie has no cover, and asking him to keep up his form for the last 2 seasons is a big ask.

Ok, so we are one short. But really aside from that this squad should be good enough to challenge. There is a tendancy to always think we need more players, more players, more players, rather than focus on what really matters, which is making the (quite frankly excellent) team we already have play better!

 

Of course you can always improve the squad, but I believe our players are already good enough and now it's about getting them playing like they were from January onwards last season.

 

See my comments above.

[John B]

See my comments above.

 

Ridiculous as we are in League 1 not some league in the figment of your imagination

 

What other team in our League has a squad as good as ours.

 

God knows what you would be like if you supported Rochdale at least you would be off this Forum

[doddisalegend]

See my comments above.

 

So what you think we need around 11-13 top quaility replacemets/first teamers to be in with a chance? really?

[alpine_saint]

So what you think we need around 11-13 top quaility replacemets/first teamers to be in with a chance? really?

 

Nope. Would settle with a new CM (or Goolie turning out to be good) and cover for Rickie. Between Puncheon and A O-C hopefully we can hold our own on RM, even if it needs a substitution every game. Would prefer that someone is brought in there though.

[Deppo]

Ridiculous as we are in League 1 not some league in the figment of your imagination

 

What other team in our League has a squad as good as ours.

 

God knows what you would be like if you supported Rochdale at least you would be off this Forum

 

Please don't use personal insults. Apline has alread been severely abused by sadoldgit and is naturally quite upset aout it all.

 

Thanks,

Deppo.

[Barry the Badger]

and right back at ya....

 

 

GK: Davis/Bialkowski -OK

LB: Harding/Dickson -Maybe, Dickson not yet proven - Dickson is proven at this level and was excellent for Brentford.

RB: Richardson/Butterfield - Maybe, neither proven - Richardson is proven at this level, Butterfield is proven at the level above.

CB: Fonte/Martin - OK, can agree here

CB: Jaidi/Seaborne - NO -I will give you this one for now as Jaidi has been poor, however I still believe he will be fine and is just having an iffy start.

LM: Lallana/Mills - Maybe, never been completely convinced by Mills - But as a backup Left Mid for a League 1 side he is plenty good enough, remember he was a regular in a promotion winning L1 side 2 seasons ago

RM: Puncheon/Oxlade-Chaimberlain - NO - not convinced by Puncheon, A O-C has great potential but I doubt can sustain a level this season to make a key difference - Puncheon is easily good enough for this level, he just needs to play like he did at the back end of last season, and I'm sure thats something Pardew is working on

CM: Scneiderlin/Guly - Maybe - Goolie not proven, Schneiderlin hasnt got back in the groove yet. - Guly not proven either way so whilst you can't say that position is sorted, you equally cannot class it as a gap. Either way I find it hard to believe that a player playing in Serie B last season will not be at least good enough to be backup to Schneiderlin.

CM: Hammond/Wotton - NO - Hammond has not started the season well, but he was excellent last season and is another who just needs to find his best form again

ST: Barnard/Connoly - Maybe - not exaclty found their shooting boots yet - Well Barnard scored over 20 goals in this league last season, I would say that classes him as good enough.

ST: Lambert/?? - NO - simply because Rickie has no cover, and asking him to keep up his form for the last 2 seasons is a big ask. - Agree on this, we do need somebody here

 

 

 

I suppose my point overall is that I don't believe there are "massive gaps". A lot of players are being written off as **** based on the start to this season. Hammond, Puncheon, Jaidi etc. But I beleive that they are just out of form, that doesn't mean they need replacing, they just need managing back into form.

 

Somewhere along the line you have to draw the line and say this team should be good enough. This team were certainly good enough last season. Hammond is the best example as he was excellent alongside Schneiderlin last year, he hasn't started the season well but that doesn't make him a bad player.

 

There is a tendancy to decide that players are crap when they are simply in a run of bad form, so far this season we have had a few too many exhibiting bad form or patchy confidence, but I don't think the transfer market is the place to go to solve this.

 

I am frustrated that we've not hit the ground running, and I don't neccesarily feel that pre-season was the best preparation it could have been. That said, I think the lads just need a league win and we will be off, lets just hope that first win comes sooner rather than later.

[alpine_saint]

and right back at ya....

 

 

 

I suppose my point overall is that I don't believe there are "massive gaps". A lot of players are being written off as **** based on the start to this season. Hammond, Puncheon, Jaidi etc. But I beleive that they are just out of form, that doesn't mean they need replacing, they just need managing back into form.

 

Somewhere along the line you have to draw the line and say this team should be good enough. This team were certainly good enough last season. Hammond is the best example as he was excellent alongside Schneiderlin last year, he hasn't started the season well but that doesn't make him a bad player.

 

There is a tendancy to decide that players are crap when they are simply in a run of bad form, so far this season we have had a few too many exhibiting bad form or patchy confidence, but I don't think the transfer market is the place to go to solve this.

 

I am frustrated that we've not hit the ground running, and I don't neccesarily feel that pre-season was the best preparation it could have been. That said, I think the lads just need a league win and we will be off, lets just hope that first win comes sooner rather than later.

 

Fair enough, makes sense. Lets hope you are right.

 

Does make you wonder what pre-season was all about though.