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The refusal to sell a season ticket at Southampton FC

lenwilkins

By lenwilkins,
in The Saints

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lenwilkins

lenwilkins

Posted
Posted

This is the report from the IFO on the club's refusal to sell Nick Illingsworth a Season Ticket

 

http://www.theifo.co.uk/adjudications.html

 

http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/southampton/fb_mb.php?m=v&t=17766#0

 

"The IFO upholds the complaint that this long-standing and loyal supporter has been treated unfairly. The Club, having made its powers and authority clear, should now end the restriction and reinstate the complainant as a season ticket holder, preferably forthwith, but in any case no later than the beginning of the next season."

 

It certainly doesn't reflect well on the club. The press are going to have a field day.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
"The IFO operates a system of non-binding arbitration." - so Nicola can ignore this.

 

It may be unfair, but they don't have to sell you a ticket. If you have done something to offend the powers that be you can have the right to buy remove.

 

Just like John Bostock's family at Crystal Palace.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted

This is a fine example of certain individuals thinking they're more important than the football club.

 

Nick used to love the limelight he received....but it's time for him and a few others to realise that we're no longer here to sustain their ego's.

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saintscottofthenortham

saintscottofthenortham

Posted
Posted
This is a fine example of certain individuals thinking they're more important than the football club.

 

Nick used to love the limelight he received....but it's time for him and a few others to realise that we're no longer here to sustain their ego's.

 

This.

 

He always claimed to be the voice of the fans, yet had a constant stream of cr*p dripping off the end of his chin.

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John Smith

John Smith

Posted
Posted

I never minded Nik going to games, being a supporter, complaining about prices, parking, buses or whatever, but STOP doing it as the 'fans' representative. You are NOT. You are Saints Trust representative, which, is NOT representative of Saints supporters as it contains Nik, a couple of strangers, a guy who didn't even know he'd signed up, and Nik's dog!

 

Even in this IFO dossier, he is talked up as fans representative, often giving the fans view in TV interviews. This is just wrong, and using this Saints trust card again is sickening. I am considering writing to IFO and ask them to reconsider their opinion of Nik. Sure, let him back in, but wipe all trace of Saints trust from their records, it is a non-entity and holds no weight with the fans whatsoever. And, Nik using this again, just goes to show how unstable the guy is. They talk about the saints failure to publish its charter this season, where's the Saints trust charter this season, list of members, newsletters, updates, official demonstration in an outpouring of support for the trust secretary. It's all rubbish.

 

STOP IT NIK, JUST STOP IT.

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croydonsaint

croydonsaint

Posted
Posted
Honestly couldn't care less.

 

Maybe the question of why is relevant. But that it's that Illingsworth character removes any sympathy I could have held.

 

I think you should care less. On any leval the club has not acted well. If they are not prepared to give reasons for refusals one can only assume that they may not be good or fair reason. Regardless of personalities involved I am sorry that the club I support should act in what seems such a petty and disapointing way.

Hopefully at this late stage the may correct this feeble, customer relations.

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bitterne again

bitterne again

Posted
Posted
good

this man does not speak for me so why does he not just stop speaking to the media, he must know that he just rubs people up the wrong way just by giving an interview under the guise of "fans representative"

get out of here

YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well said, thankfully this club has moved into a new era, and there is no room for self opinionated dinosaurs like Mr Illingsworth anymore, its time he realised he never has been the "fans voice" for god's sake just support the club like everyone else.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted (edited)
I think you should care less. On any leval the club has not acted well. If they are not prepared to give reasons for refusals one can only assume that they may not be good or fair reason. Regardless of personalities involved I am sorry that the club I support should act in what seems such a petty and disapointing way.

Hopefully at this late stage the may correct this feeble, customer relations.

 

Hi Nick.

 

10,000 or so others had no problem. Including those who are far more prominent in fans circles. So why him? He will have crossed the line somewhere.

 

Our current administration may be occasionally haphazard with their PR but as proven since they have taken over the actions they do commit to are for good reason.

 

He's not been banned from the stadium, just from purchasing a seaon ticket. There will be a damned good reason I'm sure.

Edited by Colinjb
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SaintBobby

SaintBobby

Posted
Posted

Actually, unless the IFO document is a total hoax, I'm pretty apalled by this.

 

I'm no fan of Nick Illingsworth. I don't know the man personally at all. I have only not taken legal action against him for the JPT rip-off because my lawyer has found it neraly impossible to identify the legal party who "organised" the event.

 

I don't have any reason to believe that he is representative of Saints fans. I know quite a lot of Saints fans and none of them know Illingsworth. The broad brush view on here is that he doesn't really represent anyone. But that's really a complaint against SKY, The Echo etc for claiming that he does. Not against him as such.

 

But the club has some explaining to do here. Either this man is such a threat to national security that SFC can only discuss the matter with MI5 etc or they have acted in a petty and vindicative fashion.

 

There are plenty of petty and vindicative people in football. No surprise there. I'm just a tad worried that SFC have clearly gone to some considerable length to act in a petty and vindicative way and then not even apologise. If you're going to do dictatorial loony behaviour, do it properly. Ban him from SMS altogether. But what sort of totally warped bureaucrat thinks "no....don't ban him from the ground...let him buy tickets as and when he pleases...let him come to any game he wants....just don't let him have the satisfaction of owning a season ticket"

 

The only conclusion I can draw is that one or more people on the payroll of the club went through exactly this thought process.

 

I find that creepy, weird and unacceptable.

 

I don't think a response of "So what? It's Illingsworth!" is a fair one.

 

Nick Illingsworth shoudl lodge a subject access request with the club under s8 of the Data Protection Act of 1998 to find out what happened.

 

This isn't going to knock the meltdown in Eygpt off thefront pages. But that's not the basis for deciding what's right and wrong.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
This is a fine example of certain individuals thinking they're more important than the football club.

 

Nick used to love the limelight he received....but it's time for him and a few others to realise that we're no longer here to sustain their ego's.

 

How sad that at the end of a ground breaking transfer window and an away win tonight, such bitter and illinformed posts like this one are back on the board.

 

Just for the record I have met Nick, don't know him in any other than to say hi to, with the exception of a converstaion I had with him, when our ref didnt turn up and someone phoned him short notice to fill the gap, which he duly did (And gave a very harsh penalty against me). The conversation was about his media work.

 

You will not ever find a quote from him, claiming to be the voice of the fans or indeed to speak on behalf of all Saints fans (Despite the 20 posts already saying he does - You are all lying or are just sheep)

 

He loved the limelight so much he offered on numerous occassions to pass it over to others (Some on this board I believe) but there were no takers. My understanding is that offer still stands, although you will need to check with him.

 

Whether I think he is a nice guy or not is irrelevant, but one thing beyond question is he is Saints through and through and whilst you character assainate him on here, he is probably on his way back from Exeter, whilst you cyber warriors put the boot in.

 

He is a ******* Saints fan, home and away, rain or shine and has been treated very very badly. What if one of you lot shout something at a player or a sing a song that the Cortese doesn't like and he takes away your Season ticket ( Not relevant for 99% posters so far on this thread). This is flip side to the brilliance he showed in the transfer window and at a time when it seemed it was picking fights with everyone. But just as the photographic ban was stupid so is this and lets hope he can back down gracefully as he did with that.

 

Oh and Nick your wrong, the IPO is sanctioned by the footballing governing bodies, so the club can ignore but will be fined by the FL and just for good measure, the IPO have reported us to the FL for being in breach of our own charter....... Very professional.....NOT.

 

We owe Cortese alot, but on this occassion he owes Nick.

 

In passing, the IFO requests that the Football League explores whether the Club is in breach of League regulations by not having its Charter available on its website

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted (edited)

The club have already said that the charter published was for last season, when it was explained that the season ticket instalment plans were withdrawn due to so many people not paying up in the past. So we can scrub round that right away.

It's a very bizarre set of circumstances and it seems the club has to give an answer now either way. I'll wait and see what response they give before condemning anyone.

Edited by Saint_clark
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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
The club have already said that the charter published was for last season, when it was explained that the season ticket instalment plans were withdrawn due to so many people not paying up in the past. So we can scrub round that right away.

 

Im afraid not Saint Clark ...... Apart from the fact that the charter was removed from OS the afternoon after it was announced that they were removing installment plans, but that is another story.

 

FA handbook (And right down to kids football) ( I will go and check the exact wording) but the charter has to be available and accessible to all and where a web site exisists or tickets are sold it has to be one there. We are in breach which is why the IPO are reporting us.

 

Oh and the club MUST have a charter

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted (edited)

Have you not seen this, linked from the official site then? The Supporters Charter, 10-11 season;

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/staticFiles/a/67/0,,10280~157450,00.pdf

 

And the page I found it on...http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/SupporterServices/0,,10280,00.html

 

The IFO must have had an absolute amateur working on this case if he couldn't even find that.

Edited by Saint_clark
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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
Have you not seen this, linked from the official site then? The Supporters Charter, 10-11 season;

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/staticFiles/a/67/0,,10280~157450,00.pdf

 

And the page I found it on...http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/SupporterServices/0,,10280,00.html

 

The IPO must have had an absolute amateur working on this case if he couldn't even find that.

 

Not on there at time of enquiry..........How bizarre it is one there now, i wonder why:)

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Kingsland Nick

Kingsland Nick

Posted
Posted
Have you not seen this, linked from the official site then? The Supporters Charter, 10-11 season;

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/staticFiles/a/67/0,,10280~157450,00.pdf

 

And the page I found it on...http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/SupporterServices/0,,10280,00.html

 

The IFO must have had an absolute amateur working on this case if he couldn't even find that.

 

"Posted on: Wed 19 Jan 2011", 13 days after the IFO adjudication.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
I thought they said the charter was nowhere to be found? How could they know if we were in breach of it or not?

 

They requested one from the club. Go and read the report.

 

You can try and spin it and argue as much as you like, this is wrong on every level and for all the fantastic things Cortese has done, this is just silly.

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
They requested one from the club. Go and read the report.

 

You can try and spin it and argue as much as you like, this is wrong on every level and for all the fantastic things Cortese has done, this is just silly.

 

As I said earlier, i'll wait for a response from the club before I form any real opinion - i'm more just playing devils advocate here as I can see this turning into one of the ol' "Cortese is the devil" type threads.

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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted

You can try and spin it and argue as much as you like, this is wrong on every level and for all the fantastic things Cortese has done, this is just silly.

 

Totally disagree.

 

It is like someone slagging off some guy then crying about it when he is not invited to his party.

 

I respect you sticking up for him but please don't try and portray him as some angel of Southampton. I am sure those who went to Silverspoons (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/johnstones_paint_trophy_2010/6452016.Saints_fans__party_was__a_victim_of_success__say_organisers/) or were involved with the proposed music concert would disagree. And on top of that wasen't he pimping out un-official merchandise outside Wembley Del Boy style?

 

Maybe those things played a part in it?

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MarkSFC

MarkSFC

Posted
Posted

If the club was in breach of FL rules in the way they handled the complaint then fair enough, let there be appropriate sanction.

 

However and regardless of any report surely a Private Company has the right to sell their product to whoever they wish and under their own terms as long as they are legal.

 

For example a bank will sell one loan to one person at X rate and terms and the same amount to someone else on Y terms so if SFC decide that they will only allow Nick Illingsworth to buy tickets on a match by match basis so be it. As long as their reasons which do not have to be made public are reasonable and not racist, agist, sexist or contravine the Disbulities Act that fine by me.

 

On a personal note I have met him a couple of times andnd found him pleasant enough and clearly a very passionate Saints fan. On the other hand I was careless enough to get sucked into the Silverspoons con and the way my complaint was handled - not by him personally mind you - was shambolic and added insult to injury.

 

Maybe Nick I should remember that he was part of and used his name and media contacts to con hundreds of his fellow fans in going to an horendously organused and wildly mis-sold event.

 

What goes around comes around and maybe he should move on and take the moral high ground rather than attempt to score some limelight points.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)
I thought they said the charter was nowhere to be found? How could they know if we were in breach of it or not?

 

Because, as it says here :

 

In this regard, it would appear that Southampton FC is in breach of Football League Regulation 18.2 which states that “a copy of the customer charter…shall be made available to the public through…their web site”.

So the club were in breach of Football League's regulations in not having its Supporters' Charter on the OS.

And now they're not - but the ruling refers to the promises broken from the 2009/10 charter in the absence of this new document at the time.

 

As for the ruling :

Given that the Club has chosen to confide neither in the League nor in the IFO, it is not possible to discern the real reason for the treatment of the complainant, which the Club admits is unique. Club officials stated that the Club had chosen to demonstrate its powers on this occasion and it would appear that a similar motive explained recent disputes over press accreditation and access for photographers. The IFO is left with no alternative other than to draw the inference that it can only be the complainant’s roles as chair of the Trust and prominent supporter activist which have caused him to be singled out for this special treatment. Perhaps this is to set an example and to deter other critics of the Club’s management. If that is not the motive then the Club has the opportunity to prove otherwise. In the absence of such proof, the IFO finds that on the balance of probability the Club has discriminated against and victimised the complainant.

 

Which all sounds reasonable.

 

Also, the allegations of breach of intellectual property by Nick Illingsworth (which I'm guessing are due to the word "Saints" appearing in the name of the Saints Trust - which is only relevant to this discussion as the IFO has decided that it was the reason the club discriminated against Illingsworth) sound like the kind of spurious bullying guff I've heard they've been sending the Echo regarding their desire to get a quote from MALI employees after Markus' death. Neither makes the club sound very good, and they're both massive PR gaffes.

 

And I really do wish you lot would get over this idea that he passes himself off as the voice of the fans. Maybe 5 years ago it might have been an issue, but that was exactly when the Trust was trying to do something about the way the club was being run - it's not a concern that we're going to go into debt right now, but these kind of things don't exactly win goodwill for operating with the interests of the fans underpinning the business either.

Edited by The9
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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted

Sounds like a load of bitter sorts here whose noses are out of joint by someone taking their limelight.

I don't have the background but crap to slag off someone from relative anonymity and if I were him I would want to take it further if my club refused me a season ticket. At least have the courage to give the man an explanation.

 

As for the press having a field day - assume we are only thinking of the Echo?

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

Now I HAVE met Nic,and spoken to him on a couple of occasions - Sure its annoying when the media add the 'voice of fans tag' - ****es me off no end, but It does not stem from Nick. He obviously cares deeply about Saints and has in the past been prepared to get involved when others have not... not saying i agree with everything he says, or believes, but I do think he is a decent bloke with his heart very much in the right place.

 

However, we do not know the reasons for the ST ban. iIs it just vindictiveness on part of the club because of negative things said on his web site UI? Did he break the ST rules in some way? Has he infringed copyright on his site? I dont know and untilo I do, I wont pass judgement on either.

 

Was this ban not put in place by previous owners? dont recall.

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