The Bundesliga!

[Barry Sanchez]

The Bundesliga at the moment is showing others how its done, better

 

 

Stadiums

Atmosphere

Prices

Attendances

51% of fams own their club

Fans on the board

Youth players in their team leading to a better National side

Safe standing

 

 

In short a lot better than our shower of **** Premiership that is a cash cow for Murdoch and Sky, our mercenary bastards could learn a thing or two from our cousins over the water.

Edited 24 April, 2013 by Barry Sanchez

[Saint-Armstrong]

Re: Prices

 

[Sour Mash]

The Bundesliga at the moment is showing others how its done, better

 

 

Stadiums

Atmosphere

Prices

Attendances

51% of fams own their club

Fans on the board

Youth players in their team leading to a better National side

Safe standing

 

 

In short a lot better than our shower of **** Premiership that is a cash cow for Murdoch and Sky, our mercenary bastards could learm a thing or two from our cousins over the water.

Mercenary? Why is Goetze moving to Bayern? Atmosphere? Lots of choreographed hand clapping and flag waving.

 

Having said that Bayern and Dortmund have been excellent in these two games.

[Tokyo-Saint]

They are German, of course it is going to be choreographed.

[Barry Sanchez]

That atmosphere was awesome, I have seen nothing like that in our stadiums to be fair.

[pap]

I really fancy going to a Bundesliga game.

 

Actually, I really fancy going to Germany in general.

 

What's it like for a non-German speaking person? Easy enough to get on out there?

[Wiggles31]

The Dortmund stadium is awesome.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Ja!

[SuperMikey]

Naturlich.

[John Boy Saint]

I really fancy going to a Bundesliga game.

 

Actually, I really fancy going to Germany in general.

 

What's it like for a non-German speaking person? Easy enough to get on out there?

Very easy, most Germans speak very good English especially the younger ones. I recently did a Trade Show in Frankfurt it was easier getting information over the phone and at the show its self with very little trouble (probably a damn sight easier than at the NEC Brum) with the very little German I have, in fact most folks defaulted to English instantly!

Give it a go Beer is good, Grub is good especially if you like meat and Pork in-particular.

[stevegrant]

I really fancy going to a Bundesliga game.

 

Actually, I really fancy going to Germany in general.

 

What's it like for a non-German speaking person? Easy enough to get on out there?

Very, most Germans speak English to a decent level. While all the attention is rightly on the terraces in German stadia, you'll find it very difficult (or expensive via the black market - ticket touting is legal in Germany) to get tickets in the standing areas as most are sold out to season ticket holders. You'd have more luck at second or even third division grounds, and there are some big sides in the second division at the moment - Cologne and Kaiserslautern regularly get 35k+.

[Andre]

great all round

[1885]

I really fancy going to a Bundesliga game.

 

Actually, I really fancy going to Germany in general.

 

What's it like for a non-German speaking person? Easy enough to get on out there?

 

99% of the people speak English over here, should not be a problem.

Might be different with older folks, but usually you will be understood.

 

51% of fans own their club

Youth players in their team leading to a better National side

 

Sorry, but that is simply not correct.

There are just rules in German football that a club is not allowed to sell 51% of its stocks to prevent being owned by a single person or company.

[Chorlton]

Saw Hertha play in the second division a couple of years back. There were 36000 there in a ground that holds twice that, and there is a huge running track (it is the Olympic Stadium from 1936) yet the atmosphere was better than anything I have seen in England for years. Yeh, some of it is choreographed, but so what? Could have got in for about 10 Euros, but splashed out 18 on seats right next to the press box

[farawaysaint]

I was going to post something similar, nice to see their forward thinking FA is finally getting the results their policies deserve.

[Asaint4ever]

I hate ze Germans

[eurosaint]

The Bundesliga at the moment is showing others how its done, better

 

 

Stadiums

Atmosphere

Prices

Attendances

51% of fams own their club

Fans on the board

Youth players in their team leading to a better National side

Safe standing

 

 

In short a lot better than our shower of **** Premiership that is a cash cow for Murdoch and Sky, our mercenary bastards could learn a thing or two from our cousins over the water.

 

 

Sounds like an advert for ' Fortress Fratton' to me

[Lord Duckhunter]

Raphael Honigstein's just been on Talksport. He said that Dortmund and Bayern were good sides and Schalke decent, but he said the rest of the league were very poor.

[scdean]

I really fancy going to a Bundesliga game.

 

Actually, I really fancy going to Germany in general.

 

What's it like for a non-German speaking person? Easy enough to get on out there?

 

 

i lived in germany for three years in frankfurt. loved going to bundesliga games. eintracht frankfurt were going well til christmas my last year then went down by end of the season. they still had full stadium every week. you could buy a (plastic) pint outside the stadium and take it all the way through the gates past security up to your 'seat' (standing terrace). all for about 20-25quid.

 

you cant understand the songs too much but the sheer passion is enough to get your to shout along with them.

 

it really is a great experience.

[dronskisaint]

Sounds like an advert for ' Fortress Fratton' to me

 

Which would be where the OP would be getting his influence from:rolleyes:

[Wes Tender]

I really fancy going to a Bundesliga game.

 

Actually, I really fancy going to Germany in general.

 

What's it like for a non-German speaking person? Easy enough to get on out there?[/quote

 

Don't mention the war. I did once, but I think I got away with it.

[qwertySFC]

Premiership for fans is sterile - The Germans know how to create an atmosphere - where as here, you are treated like a terrorist if you have a flag longer than six inches - pathetic sterile atmospheres

[Convict Colony]

Just cos we are talkin germany I saw this the other day and don't know if this was picked up else where but a really good article on Dortmund and their recovery from nearly being bankrupt and their graduation to champions league football.

 

Something for us to aspire to given similarities of our stories (I am not comparing the club size just CL affordability) especially more so the fact they are a selling club, hopefully something we will only have to do in extremis.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/23/jurgen-klopp-borussia-dortmund

[MINIBARCELONASAINT]

I really fancy going to a Bundesliga game.

 

Actually, I really fancy going to Germany in general.

 

What's it like for a non-German speaking person? Easy enough to get on out there?

 

Hi Pap,

 

Do you coach/have any coaching badges?

 

There's a soccer school based in Cologne that work with the German FA that regularly seek out Level 2 coaches from England to do their multilingual Soccer Camps. You get put up for the duration of the camps, train and coach at some top facilities and get a little salary on top

[ant]

Funny how it took so long for people to catch onto the emergent standard of domestic German football. Jamie Redknapp stating that "Lewandowski has announced himself to the world" was particularly laughable.

 

Agree with most of the OP but the 50+1 rule really doesn't relate to fan ownership and essentially removes the competitive nature from the league - in the long term Bayern will inevitably win out because nobody can compete financially. Ah, but Dortmund won the last two titles! Yep, so Bayern nick in and sign their best player. You have to bear in mind that their commercial revenue is roughly equal to United's and Liverpool's combined. No team can compete with that for more than a couple of seasons.

 

You could argue that this gulf is little worse than what the PL has and I'd agree to an extent, but I'd rather see the 50+1 ruling's rough edges smoothed before we wholesale move to implement it here.

 

Anybody that says The Yellow Wall isn't impressive has to be kidding themselves.

[Sour Mash]

Funny how it took so long for people to catch onto the emergent standard of domestic German football. Jamie Redknapp stating that "Lewandowski has announced himself to the world" was particularly laughable.

 

Agree with most of the OP but the 50+1 rule really doesn't relate to fan ownership and essentially removes the competitive nature from the league - in the long term Bayern will inevitably win out because nobody can compete financially. Ah, but Dortmund won the last two titles! Yep, so Bayern nick in and sign their best player. You have to bear in mind that their commercial revenue is roughly equal to United's and Liverpool's combined. No team can compete with that for more than a couple of seasons.

 

You could argue that this gulf is little worse than what the PL has and I'd agree to an extent, but I'd rather see the 50+1 ruling's rough edges smoothed before we wholesale move to implement it here.

 

Anybody that says The Yellow Wall isn't impressive has to be kidding themselves.

I agree with most of that, can only see Bayern going on to dominate for the next few years more than any English club will be doing going forward. Outside of the top two, the standard is a bit hit and miss, Saints or Swansea versus Mainz or Stuttgart?

 

The "yellow wall" is very impressive, but they don't make much noise for a dull league game on a Saturday afternoon, same principle the way the Kop turns it on for Liverpool's big European night's or games against the Mancs etc.

[melmacian_saint]

Re: the Arsenal prices.

 

Too high no doubt, but you compare Dortmund to London, and the world rep of the PL v. that of the Bundesliga.

 

Even at SMS I've heard people talk Spanish and other European (I think) languages, even a few Asians. I presume this is something that repeats itself throughout other stadia of the country.

 

If the Bundesliga ever becomes able to attract people to weekend breaks just to watch the football, you watch those prices...

[Sour Mash]

Re: the Arsenal prices.

 

Too high no doubt, but you compare Dortmund to London, and the world rep of the PL v. that of the Bundesliga.

 

Even at SMS I've heard people talk Spanish and other European (I think) languages, even a few Asians. I presume this is something that repeats itself throughout other stadia of the country.

 

If the Bundesliga ever becomes able to attract people to weekend breaks just to watch the football, you watch those prices...

Loads of people already do German football weekends, more than come to Southampton. And seats are expensive, not too disimilar to the Premier League. The big terraces sell out well in advance, either season ticket holders or members, if you just pick a random game and try to get a seat you'll be paying circa £35.

[disintegration87]

St Marys will always be better than going to a Bundesliga match. Don't believe the hype (too much). I live in Frankfurt and have been to a few matches including at Eintracht. Yeh they all stand up and you can drink a 5 Euro beer and smoke in the stadium if you like but the atmosphere always feels more sterile to me than in England. Althought it is definitely worth going once or twice! The crowds don't really believe in spontaneous chants imo nor do they do humour what they do do is have some chump climb the fences with a megaphone and wave stupid flags in your face. I'm also not too certain on the standard of football outside of Dortmund or Munich. I reckon Saints would beat most of the rest on a good day. The fact that Dortmunds 'song' is to the tune of Pet Shop Boys 'Go West' kind of speak volumes about how 'hip' they really are. Thers's also a growing negative undertone with regards to fan violence which the Bundesliga are turning a blind eye to imo. I'm also sceptical about the standing sections as I know for a fact that due to lapse security those stand always have more people in them than they should (basically you can walk in with 5 mates who have tickets for that section then go out again with the tickets of your mates who are already in the stand and bring in another 4 guys who don't have tickets for that section. This is because your tickets are only properly checked when you enter the stadium area not each stand).

[captain sensible]

I really fancy going to a Bundesliga game.

 

Actually, I really fancy going to Germany in general.

 

What's it like for a non-German speaking person? Easy enough to get on out there?

 

 

I wouldn't bother......Germany will soon be coming to you! With Cameron, Clegg and Osborne upfront we don't stand a chance! We need to bring on Farage to give our midfield a bit more bite!

 

For you.....ze war is over!

[Frank's cousin]

NOt quite sure why there is this obsession the 'best league in the world tag' - which seems to be the work of the SKY/PL jugernaut... The PL remains the biggest global TV export becaus ethey have bene so clever in their marketing and hype. To be fair to the prem, we can say that there are 4 or 5 sides who should be competitive at the top which is more than in other main leagues - yet whilst its easy to mistake the global financial success that it is with 'best', and even with some great European successes in the past few years, it cant be said to have offered the 'best' quality football. OK so it depends on how you want to define best football - some will just go by results, but for me its about HOW sides play, and in a way why I love the what Saints have been trying to do... Swansea should also be applauded and its just a shame that within the PL, siides like Swansea and us will not have the 'pull' or perhaps the finances to compete within the Prem at the very top, no matter what. Simply put, culturally whilst the media and the armchair fans consistently are told that good players need to move to the 'top' teams, we will always see talent move before we benefit from it. The difference in Germnay seems to be that even though the best talent will move, players tend to wait until they have acheived something with their home club first...eg. what odds Luke Shaw will move before he is 19/20? In Germany he would probably stay till 22/23... less 'want it now'.

 

Yes Bayern dominate, and yes clubs like Dortmund will see their best talent leave and will have to start again, but AFTER they have been to a CL final and possibly won it, not before the club even qualify... same with Bayer Leverkusen a few years back.

 

Its that churn below Bayern that is good for the league and fans - Although the 49% max stock sale limits investment in other clubs, it also prevents the situation that has happened in the PL, with Chelsea and City buyiong there way to the top and staying there not on the influx of home grown taklent, but on 200mil + spending sprees and wage payouts - What clubs like Dortmund have shown is that you CAN compete without that sort of wage bill and transfer budget, even if you end up losing that talent and have to satrt again - it why I will always admire clubs like that far more than our Champions league contenders or even Bayern.

 

Ultimately, I guess its because if you took Saints with its current squad, manager and say 30 mil investmnet in the summer, we might with luck and a good season get 8/9 spot. Same deal in the Budesliga and we would probably qualify for the CL. In both cases probably lose several players, but it woudl not be so bad after they had helped us to a CL season...

[Barry Sanchez]

The fact is and remains the Bundesliga has had a better atmosphere since at least 2006.

Edited 25 April, 2013 by Barry Sanchez

[Hatch]

can we have a thread for German terrace songs?

 

Stand us in good stead for our European Tours starting in 2014.

[Frank's cousin]

St Marys will always be better than going to a Bundesliga match. Don't believe the hype (too much). I live in Frankfurt and have been to a few matches including at Eintracht. Yeh they all stand up and you can drink a 5 Euro beer and smoke in the stadium if you like but the atmosphere always feels more sterile to me than in England. Althought it is definitely worth going once or twice! The crowds don't really believe in spontaneous chants imo nor do they do humour what they do do is have some chump climb the fences with a megaphone and wave stupid flags in your face. I'm also not too certain on the standard of football outside of Dortmund or Munich. I reckon Saints would beat most of the rest on a good day. The fact that Dortmunds 'song' is to the tune of Pet Shop Boys 'Go West' kind of speak volumes about how 'hip' they really are. Thers's also a growing negative undertone with regards to fan violence which the Bundesliga are turning a blind eye to imo. I'm also sceptical about the standing sections as I know for a fact that due to lapse security those stand always have more people in them than they should (basically you can walk in with 5 mates who have tickets for that section then go out again with the tickets of your mates who are already in the stand and bring in another 4 guys who don't have tickets for that section. This is because your tickets are only properly checked when you enter the stadium area not each stand).

 

...80s pop song.... versus our 'song' - an 18th centurey gospel song... not sure you can use that one as a 'negative'

[captain sensible]

I do believe Go West was not a Pet Shop Boys song, but the Village People follow up to the dire YMCA?

[Frank's cousin]

I do believe Go West was not a Pet Shop Boys song, but the Village People follow up to the dire YMCA?

 

I believe that was 'In the Navy' - tehfact that I know that is rather worrying...

[RichTea]

They seem to make their money back on merchandising, a home shirt is about £60, nearly £20 more than a Saints shirt.

[skintsaint]

The fact is and remains the Bundesliga has had a better atmosphere since at least 2006.

 

so why wait 7 years to start a thread on it?

 

just saw it on TV last night and jumped on the bandwagon me thinks.

[Saint Billy]

I went with my cousin an Arse season ticket holder to watch them play Bayern Munich in the Champions league a few months back and the bayern fans were just awesome and gave far more entertainment than the Arse fans who were pathetic in comparison.

 

The bayern fans were even singing songs in english like "Sing when your winning and Three lions on your shirt", plus they would do these clapping routines along with coordinated jumping and arm movement, sounds tacky but in actual fact looked really impressive with 3000 plus all in sync. What with flags and flares it was a real spectical, not to mention their quality of football.

I would love to go over there for a game to capture the atmosphere.

 

I dont know what has happened over here, but it has become all so predictable and sanitised, same songs, same chants ie(were by far the greatest team the world has ever seen) fecking pathetic and sung by every fan of every club in this country, lack of any real atmosphere and charging outrageous prices to witness it.

[Cabrone]

Good for them, the Bundesliga is the way we should go. Bigger stadiums, cheaper prices and more atmosphere.

 

Glad to see a more fan centric approach paying dividends.

[Barry Sanchez]

I have always said this, for years in fact, safe standing would go some way to improve it, our atmosphere in stadiums have been **** since the mid 90's, progression? No regression as far as atmosphere goes, its crap, the Germans have always had a good atmosphere in their stadiums contrary to the popular belief of the Spanish and Italians.

La Liga has been the flavour of the month for years and years, they are not a patch on the Bundesliga, their sides are under control with their spending unike others.

As always we should follow the Germans.

[Sour Mash]

I went with my cousin an Arse season ticket holder to watch them play Bayern Munich in the Champions league a few months back and the bayern fans were just awesome and gave far more entertainment than the Arse fans who were pathetic in comparison.

 

The bayern fans were even singing songs in english like "Sing when your winning and Three lions on your shirt", plus they would do these clapping routines along with coordinated jumping and arm movement, sounds tacky but in actual fact looked really impressive with 3000 plus all in sync. What with flags and flares it was a real spectical, not to mention their quality of football.

I would love to go over there for a game to capture the atmosphere.

 

I dont know what has happened over here, but it has become all so predictable and sanitised, same songs, same chants ie(were by far the greatest team the world has ever seen) fecking pathetic and sung by every fan of every club in this country, lack of any real atmosphere and charging outrageous prices to witness it.

Most German teams sing the same songs to the same tunes. Plus all orchestrated and choreographed with a bloke with a loud hailer stood at the front, banging a drum doesn't reflect or respond to anything that is actually happening on the pitch - sounds like the sort of thing the Skates would try. Would hate that to ever catch on over here.

[VectisSaint]

I do believe Go West was not a Pet Shop Boys song, but the Village People follow up to the dire YMCA?

It was both, greater success with PSB, but VP had original hit, though it was not the follow up to YMCA, In The Navy was the follow up to that pile of crap.

[Turkish]

Lets face it, all the top leagues are overhyped. we've got the self titled 'greatest league in the world', then La Liga, which in reality only two teams can win, then you've got a handful of decent sides beneath that and the rest of the sides are pretty average, sound familiar? Same goes for Germany and Italy and France. With the top players from the lesser clubs being picked off by the biggers ones with the most money. All of the top teams from the top leagues are obsessed by becoming global brands and selling as much of their sh*te as is possible to as many people as possible. It's even spread here with people walking around in Barcelona tops, a middle aged bloke i used to work with who was a lifelong Watford fan now claims he's a Barcelona fan and clutters up my facebook feed every champions league game with his boring drivel about a club he supports when hehas never seen them play live, never been there and doesn't even live in the same country FFS.

 

The fact of the matter is proper football culture is dead, at least as far as the top leagues in Europe go. These days it's all about having the club branded gear, atmospheres created by marketeers with piped music, drums and designated singing areas rather than the old days of proper terrace wit and banter with fans there for the football not 'matchday experience'. Buy this that and the other from the club shop, signing players from far afield countries to increase shirt sales there. A lot of people have become football consumers rather than football fans. It certainly isn't the same game i fell in love with in the early 80s that's for sure. All that mattered then was what went on on the pitch and catching glimpses of Steve Moran, Peter Shilton and Mark Dennis which would excit me for weeks before and after, not the 'matchday experience'

Edited 25 April, 2013 by Turkish

[Webby]

No one bothered by the crowd being caged in then?

[Saint Billy]

Most German teams sing the same songs to the same tunes. Plus all orchestrated and choreographed with a bloke with a loud hailer stood at the front, banging a drum doesn't reflect or respond to anything that is actually happening on the pitch - sounds like the sort of thing the Skates would try. Would hate that to ever catch on over here.

 

Maybe, but I dont think I heard many of the chants repeated twice. As for "Would hate that to ever catch on over here", well I for one would prefer the atmposhere created by German fans. When I was a kid going to the Dell in the 60's the atmosphere was as enticing to me as the football.

 

Weirdly enough, when I went to the new wembley to watch us in the JP final a couple of years back, the atmosphere there came close what with the banks of red and white and the flags and general noise etc, unforunately the chants were as per standard but all in all pretty damn good, add a bit of the german type chanting etc and general celebration and it would have been amazing.

[Barry Sanchez]

The French and Germans still have a good atmosphere, I will be hopefully going to see Lyon soon once their new ground is opened, my sister in laws family have an interest in the new ground and shopping centre they are building out there.

[Barry Sanchez]

Who said they would be caged in?

[Sour Mash]

Maybe, but I dont think I heard many of the chants repeated twice. As for "Would hate that to ever catch on over here", well I for one would prefer the atmposhere created by German fans. When I was a kid going to the Dell in the 60's the atmosphere was as enticing to me as the football.

 

Weirdly enough, when I went to the new wembley to watch us in the JP final a couple of years back, the atmosphere there came close what with the banks of red and white and the flags and general noise etc, unforunately the chants were as per standard but all in all pretty damn good, add a bit of the german type chanting etc and general celebration and it would have been amazing.

Modern Bundesliga crowds are nothing like English crowds from the 1960s - modern German crowds are dressed head to toe in expensive merchandise bought from their club shop and follow an orchestrated, unspontaneous set of songs, nothing like the terrace wit and banter that used to set our support apart from the rest.

[Barry Sanchez]

Now we have Tarquin and Jeremy off to the game sitting down, there is no banter or wit now is there? Give me a coordinated dance off or a organised sing song anyday over our dour "Fawley on a Sunday" routine.