Top 8?

[SNSUN]

Having a look at the table, it seems like the top 8 (thankfully including us) is starting to break away from the pack behind. Is this your view on the table, or is it still too early to tell? Can Saints stay there?

 

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[TD=class: team-name]Arsenal[/TD]

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[TD=class: goal-difference, align: center]13[/TD]

[TD=class: points, align: center]25[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Chelsea[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Liverpool[/TD]

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[TD=class: position]Moving up4[/TD]

[TD=class: team-name]Tottenham[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Man City[/TD]

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[TD=class: points, align: center]19[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Southampton[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Everton[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Man Utd[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Newcastle[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Hull[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]West Brom[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Swansea[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Aston Villa[/TD]

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[TD=class: goal-difference, align: center]-3[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]West Ham[/TD]

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[TD=class: goal-difference, align: center]0[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Fulham[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Cardiff[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Stoke[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Norwich[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Sunderland[/TD]

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[TD=class: team-name]Crystal Palace[/TD]

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[/TABLE]

[The Kraken]

There's typically a bit of break in the table from around 7th or 8th place. Last year Liverpool finished 7th, 15 points above WBA in 8th. Breaking that sort of structure would be an utterly phenomenal achievement. Too early to say either way right now IMO but nonetheless a thoroughly impressive start to the season.

[rpb]

Too early to say - we are 6 points off top but only five points ahead of 9th. Interestingly there's only one point between 2nd and 7th.

[S-Clarke]

Is too early to say. Will be an unreal achievement to finish top 8, reckon we'll be somewhere 10th-12th come the final reckonings. Trying not to get too carried away!

[Delboy Dave]

If we finish top 10 I for one will be mega happy!

[sandwichsaint]

Is too early to say. Will be an unreal achievement to finish top 8, reckon we'll be somewhere 10th-12th come the final reckonings. Trying not to get too carried away!

 

4 teams need to pass us for us to finish 10th, 6 teams for us to finish 12th.

 

Utd and Everton ought to pass us, not sure who else might at this stage?

 

If we can stay fit, fresh and injury free, and we can add one or two in Jan we have every chance of staying 6th-7th-8th.

[Sheaf Saint]

It's only a 3-point gap between 8th and 9th, but it also separates the teams with positive GD from those with equal or negative GD (with the exception of Swansea), and that's telling.

 

After our fine start, a few people said they would reserve judgement on whether or not we can keep it up until after at least 10 games. Well we have reached that point now, and we sit only one point off second place with the best defensive record in the division. How do those people see our chances now?

 

IMO, the big test will be the back to back away games at Arsenal and Chelsea in the coming weeks. If we can hold our own in those games, avoid defeat and maybe even snatch a win in one of them then I will be confident we can go on to great things this season.

[gjphilsaint]

The margin between keeping up with the front runners and being caught by the high mid tables is slim. There is a rhythm to it all and slim margins for error. For example yesterday we drew away at Stoke...we dropped a position, now a win next week whilst other teams above us stutter might mean a move up or stay as we are..depends...also when top 5 teams play each other it becomes an opportunity. Yesterday was a chance to go second ( for a while) we didn't take it, but that's the journey we are on.can we maintain that momentum, if we do we will need to avoid the silly losses, turn games we do not dominate in a minimum of draws and see off the weaker sides, and there are plenty of them this year. Margins are slim for a team like us, whereas, top 5 current will expect realistically to win and draw enough to keep them at the high levels. Can we? I think we can as long as we maintain the standards that others are defining us by, hardworking and skillful; that and a good run of injury free games. All of this as Lambert still IMHO on real form. Promising and certainly not intended as an arrogant post. The journey continues...not a bad 10 games really!

[gjphilsaint]

And I need to change my avatar! Any help for something more up to date?

[Chewy]

I think top 8 is realistic ... Though it will either be 7th or 8th between us and Everton. The top 6 are beyond our capabilities over a season, but I can't think of any of the rest who are good enough. Toon are inconsistent, villa are young and developing, Swansea play great stuff but have already dropped a few points (and look like dropping some more today) and west brom aren't the side they were last season. Aside from west ham (and my god I hope we finish above that anti-football team) I think the rest are all in the relegation scrap. The next two months look tough so I expect to see us drop a few places but if we can maintain our level of intensity over the whole season I really don't see many other teams getting ahead of us in the table. Which is pretty astounding, really. Assuming the uefa spots from the cup come from the top 6, it's probably between us and Everton for the last place in Europe. It really is ridiculous when you think about it.

[Amesbury Saint]

Head says 21 more points needed for safety.

Heart says we could finish top 5

[WATERSIDEIFASAINT]

If we are still in touch after another 10 games then it will look very hopeful of a top 8 finish. Our next 10 games include Arsenal, Chelsea & Everton away and Man City,Spurs and Chelsea at home. From the corresponding fixtures last season we got 10 points from the next 10 games.

 

These fixtures will show us how far we have come

[Window Cleaner]

Head says 21 more points needed for safety.

Heart says we could finish top 5

 

 

21 ?? more like 18 or 19, Palace and Sunderland are already gone because they are both abysmal and have both sacked managers after less than 10 games, Norwich will join them because of their iffy defence. Can't see any of them getting any more than 36 points this season.

[SaintBobby]

I'm still a mild pessimist, I think 8th is around about the best we can hope for.

[CB Fry]

I'm still a mild pessimist, I think 8th is around about the best we can hope for.

 

Nah, that's realism. 5th/6th/7th would be astonishing, and not impossible....Pardew's Newcastle managed 5th only last year.

 

But 8th feels about right to me and would be a fine achievement.

 

We should be going for the League Cup alongside it IMO.

[washsaint]

got to say......I believe I posted if we were doing well after 10 games then that would be a time to be impressed. Boy, how well are we playing....I see no reason we can;t finish top 6 this season. The defence is magnificent and Wanyama is a beast in front of them.

 

Really feel this team could do something special this year: the football has been exquisite at times and most teams can't live with the passing and pressing style.

[doggface]

Agree about going for a cup. Would be happy with league cup but the fa cup would be a dream come true, the ultimate for a club like ours. Still can't believe Wigan won it last year!

[Turkish]

got to say......I believe I posted if we were doing well after 10 games then that would be a time to be impressed. Boy, how well are we playing....I see no reason we can;t finish top 6 this season. The defence is magnificent and Wanyama is a beast in front of them.

 

Really feel this team could do something special this year: the football has been exquisite at times and most teams can't live with the passing and pressing style.

 

Which one out of these 6 are we going to finish about to get into the top 6. Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Man United, Tottenham and Liverpool?

[kwsaint]

Which one out of these 6 are we going to finish about to get into the top 6. Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Man United, Tottenham and Liverpool?

 

None of them. I think that we will finish 7th or 8th this season. Which will still be an amazing achievement. However, if we keep all our players, then I think that top 6 is achievable next season.

 

We haven't played any of the 'big 6' at home yet. Can't imagine that they are looking forward to it that much given our current form.

[Nolan]

Which one out of these 6 are we going to finish about to get into the top 6. Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Man United, Tottenham and Liverpool?

 

Man U are yet to beat a team that lie above 13th in the table. Man City's away form so far is shocking for a team of that calibre. Every team you name has failings this year.

[Turkish]

Man U are yet to beat a team that lie above 13th in the table. Man City's away form so far is shocking for a team of that calibre. Every team you name has failings this year.

 

So you think we will finish above Man United and Man City?

[Saint Garrett]

7th would be incredible. Still think there is a top 3 this season (Chelsea, City, Arsenal) and then Liverpool, Spurs and Man Utd fighting for 4th.

 

If us or Everton can have a very good season and stay injury free, then maybe we could cause a shock and finish in the top 6, but very unlikely. Would be more than happy to finish 8th.

[Nolan]

So you think we will finish above Man United and Man City?

 

I see no reason why we won't be in the mix, like I said all six teams you mentioned have exploitable failings this year.

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[Turkish]

I see no reason why we won't be in the mix, like I said all six teams you mentioned have exploitable failings this year.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

 

Do you think one from those six will win the title and 3 others will qualify for the champions league?

 

Let's flip this, can you give the reason why you think we will be in the mix, rather than not being able to think why we won't be.

[hypochondriac]

So you think we will finish above Man United and Man City?

 

We will finish below both.

[NickG]

7th would be incredible. Still think there is a top 3 this season (Chelsea, City, Arsenal) and then Liverpool, Spurs and Man Utd fighting for 4th.

 

If us or Everton can have a very good season and stay injury free, then maybe we could cause a shock and finish in the top 6, but very unlikely. Would be more than happy to finish 8th.

 

Agree with this.

 

It would be silly to write off our chances of finishing above, for example Man U.

 

Over ¼ of the season is a fair indicator and we are currently performing better - both in results and performances. If their shortcomings in midfield and defence are not sorted and we keep performing they are easily within our sights.

 

However, if RVP and Rooney perform, Lovren injured etc they should pull well clear of us.

 

The top six is most likely to be as expected, but bookies odds show we have a realistic chance.

 

Those saying we will never catch them, and calling others deluded for considering it, forget that sometimes top teams under perform.

 

Think top 8 is there for the taking - and as CB said cup win would make it a great season!

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[washsaint]

In anser to Turkish......if we continue playing the way we are right now, there is no reason at all why we can't finish above any 1/2/3 of Liverpool, Man U, Spurs. Liverpool have 0 points from top of the table of the clashes (losses to us and Arsneal) and Spurs ahve not been impressive and neither have Man U.

 

Not to say it will happen but why not?

[Barry Sanchez]

Top half of the table with good performances will please me, I have said it before and I will say it again, significant frequent investment will be needed to break in to the TOP 6 consistently, massive investment for the top 4.

[Turkish]

In anser to Turkish......if we continue playing the way we are right now, there is no reason at all why we can't finish above any 1/2/3 of Liverpool, Man U, Spurs. Liverpool have 0 points from top of the table of the clashes (losses to us and Arsneal) and Spurs ahve not been impressive and neither have Man U.

 

Not to say it will happen but why not?

 

A lot would have to go right for us to do that. We'd need all of our key players to be fit and in form for the entire season. We'd need Man United to continue to massively under perform, which they won't do. As things stand despite your sneering at how unimpressive Liverpool and Spurs have been, they both currently sit above us, this despite us being amazing and spurs not being impressive and Liverpool supposedly losing to everyone in sight of the top half. Of course its not impossible for it to happen, as mentioned Newcastle did it a couple of years back and Villa did it 3 years in a row, but there is a lot that would need to go right for us and wrong for the others for it to happen. I keep reading no one can think of a reason why we can't. Well how about people start giving a few reasons why we can

Edited 3 November, 2013 by Turkish

[slickmick]

There's no way we will finish in the top 5. 7th or 8th at the very best. Some peeps getting far to carried away on here.

[Nolan]

A lot would have to go right for us to do that. We'd need all of our key players to be fit and in form for the entire season. We'd need Man United to continue to massively under perform, which they won't do. As things stand despite your sneering at how unimpressive Liverpool and Spurs have been, they both currently sit above us, this despite us being amazing and spurs not being impressive and Liverpool supposedly losing to everyone in sight of the top half. Of course its not impossible for it to happen, as mentioned Newcastle did it a couple of years back and Villa did it 3 years in a row, but there is a lot that would need to go right for us and wrong for the others for it to happen. I keep reading no one can think of a reason why we can't. Well how about people start giving a few reasons why we can

 

Just look how we performed against the top teams last season, and we've improved since then. We've only lost 3 in 20 and that includes victories against Liverpool (twice), and Chelsea. We've also only conceded 13 in the last 20. (3 of those against West Brom).

 

There is absolutely no reason why we can't keep mixing it. There is a reason why Sky are showing our matches against 'big' teams.

 

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[RobM]

I'm still a mild pessimist, I think 8th is around about the best we can hope for.

 

I'm an optimist and think 8th is where we'll finish, which would be an excellent result and show real improvement over last season. In all honesty, as long as we're comfortably ahead of where we were last season, I'll be happy. It's long-term progress I'm hoping for, rather than being 'that team' who have a cracking season and then drop back the next.

[Cabrone]

If what we have done so far was to be continued throughout the season 8th is doable and would be a realistic target.

 

However if Ossie fires up and we stay clear of big injuries + strengthen in one or two areas in January then maybe, just maybe we could gatecrash top 6. Ossie is a key man, just a moderate number of goals from him ontop of our already stingy defence would add a lot of extra points.

 

That said, the converse could happen and we could fall down to 12-14th.

 

Top 6 = beyond all expectations

Top 8 = realistic ambition

9th/10th = par for the course

[SaintBobby]

Which one out of these 6 are we going to finish about to get into the top 6. Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Man United, Tottenham and Liverpool?

 

I agree these teams are probably going to be the top six.

 

But to hit an optimistic note, I think it is possible (though not likely) that we will finish ahead of one of these teams.

 

To do a bit of nerdy, off the cuff maths, let's say EACH of these six teams have a 95% chance of finishing above Saints. That would mean the chance of ALL of them finishing above Saints is 73.5%. Still pretty damned likely, but far from cast iron certain.

 

I think those that want to map out how we might finish in the top six, probably need to rely on one or more of the big teams blowing up this season.

 

Maybe this looked like Arsenal after their first game.

 

With Man Utd trailing Stoke 2-1 at home with 15 mins left in their last home game, perhaps it was possible to imagine them underperforming chronically this year.

 

Perhaps it's now Chelsea who look like they might just run into the sand.

 

It would definitely need something quite odd to happen for Saints to make the top six, but it wouldn't be an outright miracle.

 

Of course, we'd still need Everton to underperform as well as continuing to outperform teams like Newcastle and Swansea. So, all in all, offer me 8th now and I'd take it. But top six isn't (quite) a total pipedream.

[Window Cleaner]

I'd say we have and excellent chance of finishing above Liverpool, thought they looked pretty poor against the Arse. If you can tame Suarez you can beat Liverpool fairly easily because they're not good in midfield and their 3 man defence is oft strewn with errors. Spurs looked pretty toothless yesterday as well, they seem to have spent a lot of money and gotten very little for it that they didn't already have.

[Harry Faz]

I think the top 6 will be the big 6 with the deepest squads. I would be really pleased with 7th - the best of the rest .

 

If we do that - the next question for the club is whether they are able and prepared to spend the big cash which will be need it to have a real consistent go at establishing ourselves with the big boys. Many teams have had a decent season or two , but over time it needs big investment to sustain a challenge on those top places. Clearly that is Saints aim - but its as big a step again - as all the steps weve taken so far with Cortese.

[Saint_Tony]

I predicted 10th at the start, I'll stick with it. The highest we could possibly finish is 7th imo, but that would take a monumental effort

[RobM]

I think the top 6 will be the big 6 with the deepest squads.

 

Depth of squad is the key, IMO. We have a very, very good starting 11, but it will only take an injury or suspensions in one or two positions to make us look weak, or to have to change our style.

 

And I know we have good players coming through the ranks, plus players like Cork on the bench, but how confident are we that they match our style of play? Cork, for instance, was superb last season but we brought in Wanyama to play a very different game, much more defensive than Cork. Losing him will be a challenge.

 

Same with Clyne and Shaw. We have Chambers to come in, but as good as he is, he can't quite cover the attacking threat that our FB's offer. All our width comes from Clyne and Shaw so losing them without somebody ready to play the same style will also be a challenge.

 

Then there is Boruc, who has won us points this season for sure. I do believe both Kelvin and Gazza could cover for a game or two, but not with the same quality and assurance.

 

January is going to be critical.

[Baird of the land]

For me the longer the league keeps throwing up surprise results & the top half remains tightly bunched the better for Saints prospects of finishing higher up the top half & make for an extremely interesting season too. Finishing 10th was what i was hoping for before the season started, now while i still would consider that a very good achievement, i have some optimistic dreams of 7th.

[The9]

There's typically a bit of break in the table from around 7th or 8th place. Last year Liverpool finished 7th, 15 points above WBA in 8th. Breaking that sort of structure would be an utterly phenomenal achievement. Too early to say either way right now IMO but nonetheless a thoroughly impressive start to the season.

 

My main concern is that we've played 2 teams in the top half and 8 in the bottom half. For some reason this massive skewing of fixtures doesn't matter to Saints fans this season the way it did last.

 

Ok we've got 4 points from the visits to Liverpool and Man U already which gives me some hope for the forthcoming fixtures, but we've also only got 3 points from the 4 matches against Norwich, Sunderland, Stoke and West Ham.

[The9]

Depth of squad is the key, IMO. We have a very, very good starting 11, but it will only take an injury or suspensions in one or two positions to make us look weak, or to have to change our style.

 

...Boruc, who has won us points this season for sure. I do believe both Kelvin and Gazza could cover for a game or two, but not with the same quality and assurance.

 

I don't see any other top half teams with as weak back up keepers as Saints have. A Boruc injury would be more significant than anyone else except maybe Lovren or Schneiderlin.

[Window Cleaner]

My main concern is that we've played 2 teams in the top half and 8 in the bottom half. For some reason this massive skewing of fixtures doesn't matter to Saints fans this season the way it did last.

 

Ok we've got 4 points from the visits to Liverpool and Man U already which gives me some hope for the forthcoming fixtures, but we've also only got 3 points from the 4 matches against Norwich, Sunderland, Stoke and West Ham.

 

but at this stage of the season and for the teams 9th to 14th a win or a loss is the difference between top half and bottom half. I think i'd be right in saying that if West Brom and Swansea had beaten us they'd be top half and we'd be bottom half. As for Norwich,Sunderland and West Ham it obviously took us a few games to get into our stride and despite our lofty league position we still need to be able to score more goals which was no doubt at the root of our failing to beat any of those. I just am not convinced by Lambert and still believe we need to replace him.

[studentsaint]

This was always going to be the season that the gap between the 'top 6' and 'the rest' was going to close and that teams like ourselves had a real chance of causing a shock. It's a season of transition certainly for united, city, Everton and even Chelsea too all with new managers. Spurs without bale and a whole new team. Arsenal are performing above expectations for now, as are Liverpool, but this will fade. Saints, having won at anfield and drew at old Trafford are playing their best football and making it difficult. I think we can do what we did last season under poch, beating the big teams at home and now we are better. The only thing that will stop us is inconsistency against poorer teams and injuries.

[Window Cleaner]

This was always going to be the season that the gap between the 'top 6' and 'the rest' was going to close and that teams like ourselves had a real chance of causing a shock. It's a season of transition certainly for united, city, Everton and even Chelsea too all with new managers. Spurs without bale and a whole new team. Arsenal are performing above expectations for now, as are Liverpool, but this will fade. Saints, having won at anfield and drew at old Trafford are playing their best football and making it difficult. I think we can do what we did last season under poch, beating the big teams at home and now we are better. The only thing that will stop us is inconsistency against poorer teams and injuries.

 

 

It is also a WC season, just watch all those Brazilian,English,Belgian etc stars start pulling out of tackles from about March onwards. Spurs got 4th place in 2010 with only 70 points, mainly because they beat Arsenal,Chelsea and City in the space of about 2 weeks at the end of the season, probably because they had less WC players than any of the other top sides.

[Leicestersaint]

Ask me again on new year's day just after we have beaten Chelski at home.

[Turkish]

My main concern is that we've played 2 teams in the top half and 8 in the bottom half. For some reason this massive skewing of fixtures doesn't matter to Saints fans this season the way it did last.

 

Ok we've got 4 points from the visits to Liverpool and Man U already which gives me some hope for the forthcoming fixtures, but we've also only got 3 points from the 4 matches against Norwich, Sunderland, Stoke and West Ham.

 

Quite. Last season people were indignant that we were so bad because our tough start and that once we played a few of the lesser teams we'd start to improve. This season this doesn't seem to be the case and that despite us playing 8 teams in the bottom half, including teams many on here have labelled sh*t, awful, terrible, anti football and so on people are now claiming we are as good as the top 6 and might well finish above Man United.

[CB Fry]

This was always going to be the season that the gap between the 'top 6' and 'the rest' was going to close and that teams like ourselves had a real chance of causing a shock. It's a season of transition certainly for united, city, Everton and even Chelsea too all with new managers. Spurs without bale and a whole new team. Arsenal are performing above expectations for now, as are Liverpool, but this will fade. Saints, having won at anfield and drew at old Trafford are playing their best football and making it difficult. I think we can do what we did last season under poch, beating the big teams at home and now we are better. The only thing that will stop us is inconsistency against poorer teams and injuries.

 

If Liverpool and Arsenal "can fade" then I think we can too.

[Turkish]

This was always going to be the season that the gap between the 'top 6' and 'the rest' was going to close and that teams like ourselves had a real chance of causing a shock. It's a season of transition certainly for united, city, Everton and even Chelsea too all with new managers. Spurs without bale and a whole new team. Arsenal are performing above expectations for now, as are Liverpool, but this will fade. Saints, having won at anfield and drew at old Trafford are playing their best football and making it difficult. I think we can do what we did last season under poch, beating the big teams at home and now we are better. The only thing that will stop us is inconsistency against poorer teams and injuries.

 

 

We're performing above expectitions too, why will Arsenal and Liverpool fade but us not?

[Minty]

So presumably the conclusion we can come to is that: we will probably perform as expected in some games, do really well in others, but not as well in the rest; we'll get the results we deserve in some of those games, and get results we didn't deserve in others; some other teams will perform better than expected from now to the end of the season, whilst others will do worse, with more than one or two fluctuations for most sides along the way; and that we'll ultimately finish anywhere between 1st and 20th?

 

I think that covers all the bases.

[Minty]

And more seriously - if people are willing to stick their necks out and makes some predictions, it is clearly going to be based on a lot of gut feeling and guesswork. To ask for in depth justifications in what should, really, be a light-hearted prediction thread, is all a bit silly IMO. Who f*cking knows what will happen?

 

Personally, I think we'll finish about 7th or 8th, but IF MP can get us creating and converting a few more chances then there's a chance we'll sneak into 6th, as that is my main area of concern ('concern' being a relative term... it's the area we can currently improve the most).

 

But hey, it's far more enjoyable so far this season, so go with it, and who knows what we might achieve?