Lallana's Left Peg Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 but you don't know in what way or what impact it has actually had. So you're now willing to accept that actually his role has changed? Because half an hour ago you dismissed that anyone could. The impact of this change is hard to determine unless you are involved with the club on a day to day basis. All I've done is point out that Les Reed's role has increased considerably (he has lots of influence over first team matters now), that Adam Blackmore has pointed out that players do not like him, and that the club has lost at least 3 (and now looks to be at least 4) important players this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Agree. Some seem to be using an argument that means Cortese was the main footballing man at the club. Banking to PL Supremo in 3 or 4 years - maybe a quick learner, but somehow I doubt it and that he relied on a footballing man who (most likely) was Les Reed. Still, Cortese instigated the "Southampton Way" which to this day, and despite asking on here, no one can explain what it actually is. I think the "Southampton Way" was actually the "Cortese Way" and meant whatever he wanted it to mean for any given circumstance. In other words, it was b*llsh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 If he goes to Spurs I will hate him much more than if he goes to Arsenal, which is clearly a better move for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Nothing illustrates the contradictions and stupidity of the anyone-but-Cortese brigade than the volte-face on Les Reed. "Used to be a c**t but he's alright now" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 So you're now willing to accept that actually his role has changed? Because half an hour ago you dismissed that anyone could. The impact of this change is hard to determine unless you are involved with the club on a day to day basis. All I've done is point out that Les Reed's role has increased considerably (he has lots of influence over first team matters now), that Adam Blackmore has pointed out that players do not like him, and that the club has lost at least 3 (and now looks to be at least 4) important players this summer. You seem a bit simple, so I'll try and be clear. No-one knows, I don't, you don't. But you try to lecture with some sort of ITK view about what has changed, when you don't have a clue, just filling this message board up with more boring s**te. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 He listed all his responsibilities in the interview he gave in April. He also introduced himself as the DoF. He did not have those responsibilities under Cortese where he was the Head of the Football Development Centre or something like that. His responsibilities have greatly increased - especially when it comes to first team matters - in the new Board. And with it the infamous ego, which Cortese kept in order with his super ego during his tenure! Les's oft mentioned position as the 'football man' on the board is an interesting one - never played a football league game as a player, stepped in to manage Charlton for seven games (one win), otherwise the pre-SFC CV highlight is being on the periphery with the England coaching set up as 'development officer / director' (director for 18 months). Admittedly the career has been spent 'in football' but the tag 'football man' is not how he is seen by professional footballers. Makes Machiavelli look like Norman Wisdom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 The figures in that article are a nonsense and its by some random blogger. To be fair I didn't click the link at all. Just liked Killers Knee's calm and rational look at our current squad, the player movement so far and what, in his opinion, was the more important areas for us to improve. I have long given up trying to find 'factual information' about football finances online: some are surely more accurate than others, but even the 'authoritive' sites are, at best, educated guesses cobbled together from other sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 You seem a bit simple, so I'll try and be clear. No-one knows, I don't, you don't. But you try to lecture with some sort of ITK view about what has changed, when you don't have a clue, just filling this message board up with more boring s**te. I'm not pretending to be ITK. You're just not willing to listen to an opinion you don't agree with so will just dismiss. My view is that the club have made it easier for our better players to leave than they may otherwise have done. I've listed my reasons why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Not specifically no. Just find it curious why he got so much stick when we were marching up the leagues; and now his achievements are being rolled out in his defence. Simple consistency that's all. A strawman built by a master craftsman. Well done, son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan abnormal Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 BBC Journo David Ornstein on twitter @bbcsport_david: Arsenal no longer pursuing Khedira but still in market for DMF, will sign GK & probably DF depending on Jenkinson/Vermaelen situations #AFC switching their attention to Schneiderlin? Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed demon Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Honestly don't think it's KL's commitment or desire that has cost us but her inexperience and competency. The decision to appoint Krueger as Chairman over Williams was an absolute clanger in retrospect, and we seemed to sleepwalk through January to May with little public leadership or direction. There's been an improvement with Reed taking a more prominent role and Krueger kept back, but the damage was done - both to player morale and media perception - during that time. Exactly this. I know who owns the club and I know who the Chairman is but seriously, who the **** is actually in charge? Who is the leader, the ruler, the supremo? It's all a bit hollow and loose and gives me the overall impression of being a bit amateurish. I know it's been done to death but I still can't get my head around the concept of a club being powerless to retain a player that is contracted to that club. Why are we contractually bound to Osvaldo but MS or DL aren't contractually bound to us because even if they are, just throw a tantrum and stomp your feet and we'll roll over and let you go. It's a f****** joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambsaint Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Would you stay in your job if you considered there was a better offer available? I doubt it very much. Also never forget the influence of agents who want their cut, and don't want their players to stay at any club for more than a couple of years. Pointless exercise trying to make a player do what he doesn't want to. If you want an example look at Rooney, Man U got him to stay with a ridiculous wage offer, but in retrospect he hasn't been worth the money and they would probably have been better off selling him for top price and investing in players keen to play for M.U. A fan's viewpoint is very rarely the logical one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 the person he put in place was still there though,who was following through ML's wishes. You and many others did not have the same confidence in him of course but whatever you say he delivered. The new lot have not done anything to help the club move on since Partially because they were put in an impossible position by the sales job Cortese did being based on his imagination alone and nothing that had been agreed with the person who was actually funding it - leaving the "new lot" having to either live up to unsustainable goals or reduce expectations based on the reality of the situation. I think they could have managed the transfers better so far (always bring players in before letting others go being the obvious example), but they were left with a bunch of players who'd been told we were aiming for the Champions League when clearly last season's squad could only have done that if the first XI was fit and available for every match - Cortese didn't oversee a squad that could get into Europe, just a first XI that thought it could, many of whom jumped when it became obvious they wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 If we are destined to lose Morgan, would be very happy to see Arsenal gazump Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 And with it the infamous ego, which Cortese kept in order with his super ego during his tenure! Les's oft mentioned position as the 'football man' on the board is an interesting one - never played a football league game as a player, stepped in to manage Charlton for seven games (one win), otherwise the pre-SFC CV highlight is being on the periphery with the England coaching set up as 'development officer / director' (director for 18 months). Admittedly the career has been spent 'in football' but the tag 'football man' is not how he is seen by professional footballers. Makes Machiavelli look like Norman Wisdom... His name is on quite a few of the FA's coaching books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 the person he put in place was still there though,who was following through ML's wishes. You and many others did not have the same confidence in him of course but whatever you say he delivered. The new lot have not done anything to help the club move on since The new lot have employed Ronald Koeman who could, potentially, be a better manager than Pochettino. I would say that was moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 The figures in that article are a nonsense and its by some random blogger. Take Norwich City for example. It says their wages were... 2012/13 - £75m When Norwich's accounts actually show they were £50.8m, £75m is actually their turnover in 2012/13. The article has numerous errors like that throughout it and isn't in the slightest bit reliable. In any case clubs haven't even revealed accounts for 2013/14 season yet, so where on earth are those figures from? The figures re us are correct. The wage bill last year was £52m. No idea about other clubs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Everton manage to keep their best players... Coleman is the best RB in the PL and he signed a new contract rather than go to Arsenal. Admittedly, they are further down the progression line, but they are not a power club by any means. Anyway, the only way I can see Schneiderlin staying is if there are no bids for him... Talk about rewriting history! Did I imagine Rooney, Lescott, Rodwell and fellaini being sold for big money to other clubs? If one of the top clubs bid £25m plus for Coleman he would be gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Talk about rewriting history! Did I imagine Rooney, Lescott, Rodwell and fellaini being sold for big money to other clubs? If one of the top clubs bid £25m plus for Coleman he would be gone Staggered over about 10 years, not one window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 10 years! Doubt any club would accept that. 48 months maximum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 The difference is the imagine Cortese gave the club was solid and ' don't mess with us' to a degree, where as les and the hockey guy appear a soft touch and weak. Morgan and Lovren are are as much of a loss as Shaw and Lallana.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Staggered over about 10 years, not one window. Principle is the same though. If those 4 players had had their best seasons at once, there may well have been bids for all of them. We've been very unlucky in that a) our top players have had brilliant seasons at the same time b) there are teams with stupid amounts of money who are prepared to pay over the odds for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Principle is the same though. If those 4 players had had their best seasons at once, there may well have been bids for all of them. We've been very unlucky in that a) our top players have had brilliant seasons at the same time b) there are teams with stupid amounts of money who are prepared to pay over the odds for them I'm sure there's an element of truth in that (although it was by no means Rickie's best season) but something doesn't sit right that there appears a desire to get away from the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 I'm sure there's an element of truth in that (although it was by no means Rickie's best season) but something doesn't sit right that there appears a desire to get away from the club. In this case the captain has led by example. Threatening not to play in order to get a transfer. Kind of sets a precedent. Looking back you can see why the club were so ****ed off with Lallana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 People half make a load of crap up just to make their point sound more dramatic. Why do that? It's because they don't believe their point is dramatic enough otherwise, therefore confirmation that they are going OTT. What people can't see to grasp is that we had quite a unique situation, a club like ours quite often has 1 top class player who is sought after - but Lovren, Morgan, Lallana, Shaw - top, top level quality players who are wanted by the elite all at the same time. What can we actually do about that? Ensure we get the best possible fee and move on....if you start blocking bids and rejecting bids as many here are proclaiming, then you get the terrific interviews appearing in the press from the Lovrens and the like. Is that what you want? We're not a big club, I don't care what anyone says or what anyone has bought over the last few years. We will never, ever make the champions league - our club isn't big enough for it, and if we ever did push for it, we'd likely end up in a right old mess. We're a provisional club on the South Coast, who have managed to gather a group of amazingly talented players. I'll throw this out there as this will screw a few arguments. Last season there were approaches rejected for Morgan (Napoli I believe), and NC said to give it one more year and then he'd be allowed to leave, as bigger clubs would want him. Trust me, NC knew exactly what was going to happen - and he got off like a shot as soon as the interest starting gathering momentum. It's ended up exactly how he wanted, he looks like some sort of messiah who held it all together and the new lot look like a bunch of weak sellers - but it's not the case, what's happening now would have happened under him as well. People do say that he wouldn't sell, but during his tenure one Top 4 club came in for one of our players - what happened? He left for Arsenal. You cannot stand in a players way if an elite club comes calling. We're just victims of our own success. This, This and this again why some on here can't grap these basic ideas is beyond me....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Principle is the same though. If those 4 players had had their best seasons at once, there may well have been bids for all of them. We've been very unlucky in that a) our top players have had brilliant seasons at the same time b) there are teams with stupid amounts of money who are prepared to pay over the odds for them If they had recieved bids for multiple key first team players, Everton (like us), would be under no obligation to sell them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakovnetski Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 The difference is the imagine Cortese gave the club was solid and ' don't mess with us' to a degree, where as les and the hockey guy appear a soft touch and weak. Morgan and Lovren are are as much of a loss as Shaw and Lallana.. I would argue more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 If they had recieved bids for multiple key first team players, Everton (like us), would be under no obligation to sell them all. Indeed. See Baines, Leighton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Back to topic, any more news on Schneiderlin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Indeed. See Baines, Leighton. Who, a few months after the window closed, signed a new contract on 75k a week. Maybe we should have done that for Lallana, Shaw, Lovren and Morgan. Just give them all 80k a week contracts. It's all so easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 If they had recieved bids for multiple key first team players, Everton (like us), would be under no obligation to sell them all. Exactly... some half wits on here think we are the only team with quality players that the top four want. Everton have far better players, hence why they ended up with 16pts more than us. What we are, are the only team with a Board not strong enough to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 We're a provisional club on the South Coast, who have managed to gather a group of amazingly talented players. We're a provincial club. The provisional club is the lot along the other end of the M27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 I don't like the five players leaving any more than the next supporter. Last year we had a chemistry that in most games made the team perform well. If the five players were kept against their wills I maintain that there would have been no chemistry and we would have been on a slippery slope. Were these players as good individually as it appeared or were they effective because of the chemistry and blend? I am looking forward to next season because that question will be well and truly answered. Will Lovren be as effective without Shaw and the defensive midfielders or will it be that he isn't any better than Skrtl , Agger, or Sakho with Johnson, Gerrard and Henderson. Can Lallana fit in with the Liverpool forwards not accommodating his off the cuff idiosyncrasies. Will Lambert play much at all? Shaw I think will be the best but if he makes some of the mistakes he made for us I can't see the MU fans accepting it. Schneiderlin will be Schneiderlin, it's the way he plays but will it work. Football teamwork depends on the blend and there is no guarantee that blend will be there for those players. One thing they will have is a lot more money, but could there be a sting in the tail. Together they were good but separated there is no guarantee. If Saints buy sensibly and try and find a team that blends we could yet be a lot better than it looks at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 If they had recieved bids for multiple key first team players, Everton (like us), would be under no obligation to sell them all. And we are under that obligation? Seems to me that we have to sell the players because they simply refuse to stay. Why that is heaven only knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block34 Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Who, a few months after the window closed, signed a new contract on 75k a week. Maybe we should have done that for Lallana, Shaw, Lovren and Morgan. Just give them all 80k a week contracts. It's all so easy Presuming that equated to 'only' a £25k uplift each per week, that's an increase of £5.2M pa in our wages bill - means we blow FFP rules without adding anything to the squad. Not really a starter is it? Does illustrate the issues we could face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Exactly... some half wits on here think we are the only team with quality players that the top four want. Everton have far better players, hence why they ended up with 16pts more than us. What we are, are the only team with a Board not strong enough to deal with it. I dont see Liverpool and Manchester United going after a load of Everton players though so they dont have the issue we do do they? When United wanted Rooney what happened there? Fellani too last season. It just so happens it is our players they are after now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 And we are under that obligation? Seems to me that we have to sell the players because they simply refuse to stay. Why that is heaven only knows. As Adam Lallana's father mentioned double their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 I dont see Liverpool and Manchester United going after a load of Everton players though so they dont have the issue we do do they? When United wanted Rooney what happened there? Fellani too last season. It just so happens it is our players they are after now. Their time might come yet, starting here... http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-rumours-louis-3877396 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibizasaint Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Personally am a bit worried that if Spurs dont get Morgan they will go after VW. On the whole tho am amazed at the attitude being shown by these players. Morgan should remember that if there is any loyalty to be shown on his behalf it should be to the club he has represented for so long as opposed to a manager he played for for just over a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Presuming that equated to 'only' a £25k uplift each per week, that's an increase of £5.2M pa in our wages bill - means we blow FFP rules without adding anything to the squad. Not really a starter is it? Does illustrate the issues we could face. Sorry was being sarcastic. My point is when a club holds onto a player who wants out (Suarez, Benteke, Baines) they nearly always sign a new contract fairly quickly, always on massive money and normally with release clauses. That's why they were persuaded to stay in the first place, because the club had assured them they would pay them what they would be able to get elsewhere (or near enough the same amount). We aren't in a position where we can hand out massive contracts to 4 or 5 players. That's why they're all leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 And we are under that obligation? Seems to me that we have to sell the players because they simply refuse to stay. Why that is heaven only knows. Because football is a team game and if you have a bunch of players who arent happy where they are it impacts upon team performaance. We heard that about QPR the year before last didnt we? Dischord in the dressing room. You could get away with it with one player but not several. How ould you feel if a load of your mates got jobs elsewhere doing the same job for three or four times the money at "better" companies and one of these was interested in you. You go to your boss and say I'd like to leave please and he says no, you are under contract and you have to stay. Are you going to be a happy bunny? I doubt it. Why would you want people like that in your team when you need people to pull together? I'd love it if they could be pursuaded to stay but if they really want out I would prefer we had players here who wanted to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 As Adam Lallana's father mentioned double their money. But I'm not at all sure that it's only about money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 But I'm not at all sure that it's only about money. Big money + big club + Champions League football. Only going to be one outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Big money + big club + Champions League football. Only going to be one outcome. Absolutely but the order in which those 3 things fall in the minds of the players concerned probably varies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 But I'm not at all sure that it's only about money. Sure as hell outranks all the forum bol locks about broken hearted players not believing in our vision anymore. Or the guff around if only the club had returned all of Adam Lallana's phone calls he would never have dreamed of leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Back to topic, any more news on Schneiderlin? The merits of selling our best players directly impacts Schneiderlin. If there is specific update, someone will post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 On that front it seems to me we have to get a few decent signings in ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 On that front it seems to me we have to get a few decent signings in ASAP. I'd be surprised if there was much to argue about that statement. Normally I wouldn't be concerned about the timing of the new arrivals within the window but as it's looking like we will have new players in several key positions they're going to need some time together to hit the start of the season running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 And we are under that obligation? Seems to me that we have to sell the players because they simply refuse to stay. Why that is heaven only knows. I was saying that we don't have a specific obligation to sell players under contract to saints. Several people on here reckon that we simply have to sell and that there is nothing we can do, we're just part of an unlucky set of circumstances which is ****** in my view. The other view is that it's all Cortese's fault after leaving the new board with such a difficult situation to inherit. Clearly nonesense as we were in a great spot, on and off the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 I was saying that we don't have a specific obligation to sell players under contract to saints. Several people on here reckon that we simply have to sell and that there is nothing we can do, we're just part of an unlucky set of circumstances which is ****** in my view. The other view is that it's all Cortese's fault after leaving the new board with such a difficult situation to inherit. Clearly nonesense as we were in a great spot, on and off the pitch. I like your theory best of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now