Not rating players/staff when they leave

[Batman]

Weird how this happens

 

So many predict MP won't last the season with spurs. Yet breathing fire about him leavening.... If he is now not that good, why all upset that such an average manager has gone?

 

Lallana. Now all of a sudden will hardly play for Liverpool. Yet, we some are desperately angry he left. Why? If he is so average he will spend time on the bench at Liverpool with the likes of joe Allen, then why are we bothered he left?

 

Shaw. Read a few posts that he will go to united to sit on the bench. Much like buttner last season. Amazed people are a little spiteful he left of he is not really all that.

 

Same for lovren etc

 

I appreciate not everyone feels like that and some of us can see what a massive miss theses players will be. But some of the crap being spouted is funny

[Saint Charlie]

Very weird, some sort of defence mechanism.

[hypochondriac]

I think Lallana flattered to deceive and may find it difficult this year. I think Shaw and Lovren are class and will have no problem in stepping up.

[CB Fry]

Rant rant rant rant absolute disgrace Roy picked Sterling ahead of Super Saint Lallana rant rant.....rant rant Judas Lallana won't get a game at Liverpool ahead of the likes of, errrr, Sterling rant rant rant...and so on.

[Sour Mash]

Hardly anyone has written off Shaw, quite rightly, as he's destined for a full career at the top.

 

Fair questions on whether Lallana or Lambert will cement starting spots at Liverpool every week.

 

Not many slagging off MP's managerial ability, fair question as to whether Spurs will give him enough time.

[Ewell]

I think with Pochettino it's more to do with the instant success demanded by Daniel Levy and the Spurs board. Lets be honest if Pochettino emulates his last season hen that won't be good enough for Spurs who no doubt will fire him.

Lallana is possibly due to the way he left but also Liverpool have lots of money and are improving their squad and even Rogers has stated Lallana has been bought as a squad player to compete and he won't necessarily be a starter.

The Shaw stuff is obviously spiteful. He will go on and be a regular for Man U and England for the next 10 years. Anyone can see that and anyone with any sense will realise at best we could have kept him until end of this season but once England came calling his head was obviously turned.

[sadoldgit]

Who cares? They have gone. Time to move on and look forward.

[Saint IQ]

I have no reason to believe they won't all do well, they're top players and a top manager. Can see Poch having a rocky start, will he get the time?Yet can also see poch starting off very well. Will be interesting to see how Lallana reacts to playing under more pressure, have a feeling Lambert and Shaw will be fine as Lambert has been stepping up the leagues with ease and Shaw has been making premier league football look easy at 17. Who knows though, who knows

Edited 12 July, 2014 by Saint IQ

[shirleysfc]

Lallana was fantastic for us last year but I'm not sure that he's a top 4 player. I don't think he's better than Couhtinho and if they do sign Greizzman he could very quickly find himself behind 2 or 3 people for the AMC spot. Fair play if he proves me wrong though.

 

He's still a bit of a knob for the way he handled his departure/arrival in Liverpool. The advert was plain cringey. I don't blame him for wanting to double his money.

 

I think Shaw is good but still has a lot to learn. As someone else said £30m for a full back who has played 60 odd top flight games and failed to get an assist is good business. He still has stuff to learn about defending as well - his pace gets him out of trouble sometimes. I think this was a good deal for both clubs.

 

I don't begrudge Lambert the move at all, I just hope we replace him well!

Edited 12 July, 2014 by shirleysfc

[Wes Tender]

Weird how this happens

 

So many predict MP won't last the season with spurs. Yet breathing fire about him leavening.... If he is now not that good, why all upset that such an average manager has gone?

 

Lallana. Now all of a sudden will hardly play for Liverpool. Yet, we some are desperately angry he left. Why? If he is so average he will spend time on the bench at Liverpool with the likes of joe Allen, then why are we bothered he left?

 

Shaw. Read a few posts that he will go to united to sit on the bench. Much like buttner last season. Amazed people are a little spiteful he left of he is not really all that.

 

Same for lovren etc

 

I appreciate not everyone feels like that and some of us can see what a massive miss theses players will be. But some of the crap being spouted is funny

 

Spurs was the poison chalice for Pochettino because of Levy. Levy's past record of sacking managers if they don't achieve success within a fairly short timespan makes comments about him probably not lasting long there fair comment. I'm not upset that he has gone, as I believe that we have replaced him with a better manager.

 

Lallana is now longer a big fish in a small pond as he was here. He will almost certainly be spending more time warming the bench there. Do you really need to have it explained why people were angry at his leaving? Most of the anger was because of the way that he left. The same bile has been aimed at Lovren for precisely the same reason.

 

Shaw will be the best left back probably in the World for the next decade. It won't be long before he follows Bale to Real Madrid, or Suarez to Barcelona. He will always be a product of our academy, like Bale, so good luck to him.

 

These players and Pochettino might be a big loss. That depends on who we get in to replace them.

[doddisalegend]

Hardly anyone has written off Shaw, quite rightly, as he's destined for a full career at the top.

 

Fair questions on whether Lallana or Lambert will cement starting spots at Liverpool every week.

 

Not many slagging off MP's managerial ability, fair question as to whether Spurs will give him enough time.

 

err this usual over the top bollix from the OP.

[Batman]

err this usual over the top bollix from the OP.

 

Just look around. It clearly isn't

[Lord Duckhunter]

I called Lallana a 5-a-side player on one thread and got plenty of abuse, told I didn't know anything about football. I also said he should grow a pair and the club made fools of themselves over the ****enburg incident. God I took some clog for that one as well. Glad to see I was right all along lol.

 

Actually, I was wrong about Adam, he put in some bloody good performances last season and fully deserved his England call up. In fact he should of played more in Brazil. He certainly turned into a better player than I thought he would. I also know someone very close to him and he did love his time with the club. Its all ended rather sadly , and I hope over time people forget his stupidity recently and remember the service he gave. I do remember Bally taking terrible stick when returning with City, so time can be a healer.

 

Poch, only had a year, so I won't be welcoming him back ever. Of all the ones who have left he is the one I want to see fall flat on his face. Never really warmed to him and he didn't go out of his way to embrace us. I can't help thinking he played us, and loves himself a bit too much. He's obviously the bright new thing in the press, but they build them up to knock them down, so hopefully he'll get his comeuppance.

 

It is the one eyed rule of all supporters, players are pony till they sign for your team and they're ****e when they leave.

[Fan The Flames]

Weird how this happens

 

So many predict MP won't last the season with spurs. Yet breathing fire about him leavening.... If he is now not that good, why all upset that such an average manager has gone?

 

Lallana. Now all of a sudden will hardly play for Liverpool. Yet, we some are desperately angry he left. Why? If he is so average he will spend time on the bench at Liverpool with the likes of joe Allen, then why are we bothered he left?

 

Shaw. Read a few posts that he will go to united to sit on the bench. Much like buttner last season. Amazed people are a little spiteful he left of he is not really all that.

 

Same for lovren etc

 

I appreciate not everyone feels like that and some of us can see what a massive miss theses players will be. But some of the crap being spouted is funny

 

Well if you can't work it our then you have a weak understanding of human nature.

 

Anyway being an integral part of one team and then being peripheral part of a better team can happen you know.

[Verbal Kint]

Think MP is a very talented coach but I'm not sure Spurs is the right fit. Not sure he has the right midfielders there to implement the press and doesn't appear as though there are big funds to play with after last year's spending spree. It wouldn't surprise me if he flopped there but bounced back strongly somewhere else. Even if he does do well there, what's the best he can do with that squad? 5th? No real improvement on last season.

 

Lallana will do ok but doubt he'll live up to the price tag and he certainly won't get a team built around him like he had here. Shaw will take a couple of seasons developing but will no doubt go on to be one of the best left backs in the world, but the fee reflects that. Lovren is a very good defender but is he really worth 25 million? I think we can replace him for half of that. Liverpool's transfer policy strikes me as being fairly lazy. I can understand wanting proven premier league players but they're having to pay huge prices for them when they could get better value elsewhere.

 

My opinion on them as players hasn't changed at all but that doesn't mean they will be successful elsewhere, plenty of examples over the years of players not fitting in at new clubs for a variety of reasons. As people, Lambert and Shaw have behaved immaculately IMO and go with my best wishes. MP and Lovren I find it hard to be bothered by in all honesty. Both only been here a year or so and MP in particular seemed to have very little affinity to the club. I'm really not bothered by them leaving.

 

Lallana? An absolute disgrace. Spouting all those lies when signed that contract and his constant badge thumping last season only to turn around and go on strike when the ££££ came calling. I have no issue with players wanting to earn more money but don't give it the big "mr southampton" when you're going to jump ship as soon as a bigger club come sniffing. He's a complete ****, and his 14 years of 'service' (3 good seasons in all honesty with the club standing by him during serious illness and yet apparently he's the loyal one and not the club?) have been totally undone by his threats to go on strike IMO. The daily echo thing summed him up - me me me. Clattenburg was right.

 

They all did very well for us but we've got inflated prices for all of them and if we spend the money really well we could end up with a better team. Unlikely, but possible

[cellone]

Weird how this happens

 

So many predict MP won't last the season with spurs. Yet breathing fire about him leavening.... If he is now not that good, why all upset that such an average manager has gone?

 

Lallana. Now all of a sudden will hardly play for Liverpool. Yet, we some are desperately angry he left. Why? If he is so average he will spend time on the bench at Liverpool with the likes of joe Allen, then why are we bothered he left?

 

Shaw. Read a few posts that he will go to united to sit on the bench. Much like buttner last season. Amazed people are a little spiteful he left of he is not really all that.

 

Same for lovren etc

 

I appreciate not everyone feels like that and some of us can see what a massive miss theses players will be. But some of the crap being spouted is funny

 

Not as weird as grown men acting like 9yr olds looking the next opportunity to belittle fellow fans, but this site has more post of that ilk than it does about football.

[SimplyRed&White]

Excellent posts from Batman and CB Fry.

[simo]

They are no longer part of our tribe therefore they are now our enemy!

[KingdomCome]

Couple of factors:

 

- They are going to bigger/better clubs. There will be among a better class of player, so they will not be as good comparatively.

 

- Football is a team game, take one player out of a well defined and drilled team, he might not be the same player.

 

I agree, suggesting they will fall flat on their face and are suddenly incapable buffoons is a bit over the top, but I don't think many think that.

[Donatello]

You can isolate individual comments all you like, but the simple truth is most aren't of the persuasion you convey. And it's not unreasonable to highlight that our star players may not (automatically) be star players at their respective new clubs. The competition for places at Liverpool, Man U, etc, is far greater than it is here e.g. if Lallana replicates the form of his first season back in the Prem then he'll be supplanted sharpish. Furthermore, Levy is to stability, what Lallana is to humility (Villas Boas anyone?)

[Tamesaint]

Excellent posts from Batman and CB Fry.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Saint Charlie]

I've seen quite a few posts saying we now have a better Manager. Which nobody can say before he has even managed a game for us, surely?

 

Pochettino was the best Manager we have had in 20 years in terms of the quality and style of football, and how much the players bought into his methods.

 

He will do really well at Spurs I think.

[Heisenberg]

I've seen quite a few posts saying we now have a better Manager. Which nobody can say before he has even managed a game for us, surely?

 

Pochettino was the best Manager we have had in 20 years in terms of the quality and style of football, and how much the players bought into his methods.

 

He will do really well at Spurs I think.

 

Mopo also had the best team weve had in 20 years, perhaps ever. So how do you now compare?

[Lets B Avenue]

More a case of people hoping they fail, so as they can say "See you should never have left us."

 

I will be doing that for Lallana.

[St_Tel49]

Has anybody suddenly not rated the players who have left? If so, it is a shallow viewpoint. The comments were more about the attitude of the players leaving or seeking to leave. In MoPo's case the comments are less about his ability as a manager and more about Levy's shortsightedness as a chairman.

[Wes Tender]

I've seen quite a few posts saying we now have a better Manager. Which nobody can say before he has even managed a game for us, surely?

 

Pochettino was the best Manager we have had in 20 years in terms of the quality and style of football, and how much the players bought into his methods.

 

He will do really well at Spurs I think.

 

One can't make a reasoned assessment on whether Koeman will be a better manager than Pochettino was until he has had some time to prove himself, and yet it is apparently perfectly acceptable for people to express the opinion that the players who have left cannot possibly be replaced by better players. Don't you find that ironic?

 

And equally it is just as valid for people to think that Koeman is an upgrade on Pochettino, as it is to express the opinion that Pochettino will do really well at Spurs, neither of them having managed a game yet for their new clubs.

[Verbal Kint]

More a case of people hoping they fail, so as they can say "See you should never have left us."

 

I will be doing that for Lallana.

 

Which won't really happen. They left for the money, that won't really be affected if they fail. MP could get sacked, but he's on a 5 year contract worth 15 million quid. He wouldn't have gone to Spurs if he cared about the champions league as they have very little chance of qualifying for it and we all know how he feels about the Europa league and the domestic cups. He went for the money and he's laughing all the way to the bank. Same with Lallana, knowing full well he gets the odd game against fc Copenhagen or similar this year (how exciting) and the chances are next year he's back to scrapping for the top 6. But he's on 100k a week now so who cares? Happy days for him

[Wes Tender]

Which won't really happen. They left for the money, that won't really be affected if they fail. MP could get sacked, but he's on a 5 year contract worth 15 million quid. He wouldn't have gone to Spurs if he cared about the champions league as they have very little chance of qualifying for it and we all know how he feels about the Europa league and the domestic cups. He went for the money and he's laughing all the way to the bank. Same with Lallana, knowing full well he gets the odd game against fc Copenhagen or similar this year (how exciting) and the chances are next year he's back to scrapping for the top 6. But he's on 100k a week now so who cares? Happy days for him

 

Spot on. In Pochettino's case though, he maybe thought that Spurs raised his profile to the extent that if he does well there, then he could be in the frame for one of Europe's top glory clubs. But like you, I don't think that he has made the right move with Spuds, as their expectations are too high for their resources, and if he doesn't make it past Christmas, although he will be quids in, his reputation will have received a massive knock.

[Convict Colony]

Thought Delldays was a overrated but think Batman is quality

[sadoldgit]

I've seen quite a few posts saying we now have a better Manager. Which nobody can say before he has even managed a game for us, surely?

 

Pochettino was the best Manager we have had in 20 years in terms of the quality and style of football, and how much the players bought into his methods.

 

He will do really well at Spurs I think.

 

And yet Pochettino didnt come within a sniff of winning anything for us whereas Pardew won a cup and Adkins back to back promotions. Go figure.

[Batman]

And yet Pochettino didnt come within a sniff of winning anything for us whereas Pardew won a cup and Adkins back to back promotions. Go figure.

 

Pardew won a cup with a squad that costs more than the bottom half of the league combined

 

The promotion from the champ was quality, mind.

[CB Fry]

And yet Pochettino didnt come within a sniff of winning anything for us whereas Pardew won a cup and Adkins back to back promotions. Go figure.

Go figure what? Winning the JPT is no a better achievement than 8th in the Prem? Okay then.

[Saint IQ]

All based on the posts of a few bitter people.

 

Most your posts seem aimed at generalising the fanbase into something simple you can criticise and place yourself above.

 

I'm inclined to agree with this

[Batman]

All based on the posts of a few bitter people.

 

Most your posts seem aimed at generalising the fanbase into something simple you can criticise and place yourself above.

 

Which you do quite often

[sadoldgit]

Go figure what? Winning the JPT is no a better achievement than 8th in the Prem? Okay then.

 

Yes, finishing 8th was truly wonderful but my point is we have other managers who have acheived things in the last 20 years (no matter what the squad cost Delldays - Pardew built the basic squad that helped Adkins and Pochettino no end) and I dont see why Pochettino gets all the plaudits. I would say Adkins achieved more.

[sadoldgit]

Pardew won a cup with a squad that costs more than the bottom half of the league combined

 

The promotion from the champ was quality, mind.

 

So what, it is not what you spend it os who you spend it on. Plenty of clubs spend big and it doesnt work. Pardew laid the foundations of where we ae now - not least from brining oin Rickie Lambert - I would put that signing down as one of the biggest factors in our success - Pochettino benefitted from the work he and Pardew did big time.

[Saint Charlie]

I didnt say achieved, I said best in terms of quality and style of football.

 

If you want to dispute that then fine. But I think its true.

 

Our team last season were certainly the best Ive watched in 25 years.

[sadoldgit]

As you say, it is all about opinion. Last year was fab but the promotion from the Championship, for me, was more enjoyable. More so because we weren't spending silly money on over inflated egos.

[Saint Charlie]

As you say, it is all about opinion. Last year was fab but the promotion from the Championship, for me, was more enjoyable. More so because we weren't spending silly money on over inflated egos.

 

Enjoyable, quite possibly. But in terms of quality of football last year was brilliant. Pochettino deserves credit for that, of course. There is a reason Spurs wanted him and we tried to keep him, afterall.

[sadoldgit]

Enjoyable, quite possibly. But in terms of quality of football last year was brilliant. Pochettino deserves credit for that, of course. There is a reason Spurs wanted him and we tried to keep him, afterall.

 

Yes, he and the coaching staff do. Yes, we did try and keep him an Spurs wanted him. So does that mean that Adkins and Pardews contributions were any less worthy? It is nice that you are so attached to Pochettino. I have a feeling that Koeman will prove to be a better manager but only time will tell.

[Roger]

One can't make a reasoned assessment on whether Koeman will be a better manager than Pochettino was until he has had some time to prove himself, and yet it is apparently perfectly acceptable for people to express the opinion that the players who have left cannot possibly be replaced by better players. Don't you find that ironic?

 

And equally it is just as valid for people to think that Koeman is an upgrade on Pochettino, as it is to express the opinion that Pochettino will do really well at Spurs, neither of them having managed a game yet for their new clubs.

 

Saint Charlie just keeps expressing negative views. We are all down with what's happened but being ultra pessimistic is tiring after a while.

[Roger]

Enjoyable, quite possibly. But in terms of quality of football last year was brilliant. Pochettino deserves credit for that, of course. There is a reason Spurs wanted him and we tried to keep him, afterall.

 

Fair point.

[Patrick Bateman]

Hardly anyone has written off Shaw, quite rightly, as he's destined for a full career at the top.

 

Fair questions on whether Lallana or Lambert will cement starting spots at Liverpool every week.

 

Not many slagging off MP's managerial ability, fair question as to whether Spurs will give him enough time.

 

Totally agree with this. Shaw is an incredible talent and will go on to be properly 'world class', I'm sure of that.

 

People are decrying Lallana (I love the way Koeman says his name, by the way), simply because he won't be starting week in week out at Liverpool. He's been a great player for us, has talent, but it was only really last season that he exploded. If he doesn't start week in, week out, can he maintain it?

 

And yes, Pochettino and Spurs is a very different match to him and Saints. Spurs will want instant success and he's inherited a disjointed, dysfunctional team of players compared to the friendly, performing group of players that Adkins left him.

 

It's that simple, DellDays!

[SaintSteve]

Enjoyable, quite possibly. But in terms of quality of football last year was brilliant. Pochettino deserves credit for that, of course. There is a reason Spurs wanted him and we tried to keep him, afterall.

 

Absolutely, and IMO we can thank MP for us losing our best players... he improved many of them in a short period. Whether those that have left can continue to progress remains to be seen.

[sadoldgit]

Saint Charlie just keeps expressing negative views. We are all down with what's happened but being ultra pessimistic is tiring after a while.

 

It is, especially before anyone has kicked a football. We are all hoping that Koeman will continure to build on the success that Parderw, Adkins and Pochettino have contributed too in the last few years. We have a new manager and are clearly getting new players in over the next few weeks. If it all goes pear shaped so bet it and I am sure the negative posters will have a field day - but the point is we just dont know how things are going to go at the moment and things could be even better. No one is irreplaceable and Pochettino was only here for a relatively short time. All this getting dumped at the alter cr*p is very tiresome. We have a new bird now who could well turn out to be fitter than the last - time to move on!

[Leicestersaint]

I wish Pochettino nothing but ill-will and I hope he fails at Spurs - and I think that is quite likely.

[buctootim]

Shaw is an incredible talent and will go on to be properly 'world class', I'm sure of that.

 

I have doubts about Shaw. He's an incredible talent for his age, but I wonder whether he will continue to develop to the stratospheric level Man U expect (gauging by the fee).

 

If you compare him with someone like Bale or even Lallana, Shaw is better at the same age, but thats in part because he already has the strength and physical development that many players don't develop until early 20s. He's also a bit thick. Most of the great players are bright, sharp enough to continue to develop through their career, understanding the finer nuances of the game. Im not sure Shaw has that. He is freakishly good for a 18 year old but I wonder whether he will just be a good top half club PL professional by 25.

[Minsk]

Hardly anyone has written off Shaw, quite rightly, as he's destined for a full career at the top.

 

Fair questions on whether Lallana or Lambert will cement starting spots at Liverpool every week.

 

Not many slagging off MP's managerial ability, fair question as to whether Spurs will give him enough time.

 

Spurs was the poison chalice for Pochettino because of Levy. Levy's past record of sacking managers if they don't achieve success within a fairly short timespan makes comments about him probably not lasting long there fair comment. I'm not upset that he has gone, as I believe that we have replaced him with a better manager.

 

Lallana is now longer a big fish in a small pond as he was here. He will almost certainly be spending more time warming the bench there. Do you really need to have it explained why people were angry at his leaving? Most of the anger was because of the way that he left. The same bile has been aimed at Lovren for precisely the same reason.

 

Shaw will be the best left back probably in the World for the next decade. It won't be long before he follows Bale to Real Madrid, or Suarez to Barcelona. He will always be a product of our academy, like Bale, so good luck to him.

 

These players and Pochettino might be a big loss. That depends on who we get in to replace them.

 

Totally agree with this. Shaw is an incredible talent and will go on to be properly 'world class', I'm sure of that.

 

People are decrying Lallana (I love the way Koeman says his name, by the way), simply because he won't be starting week in week out at Liverpool. He's been a great player for us, has talent, but it was only really last season that he exploded. If he doesn't start week in, week out, can he maintain it?

 

And yes, Pochettino and Spurs is a very different match to him and Saints. Spurs will want instant success and he's inherited a disjointed, dysfunctional team of players compared to the friendly, performing group of players that Adkins left him.

 

It's that simple, DellDays!

 

All of the above.

 

As per usual, I think you are being a bit dramatic Jamie. Indeed, I think you are doing a Turkish in taking an odd post here and there and conveying that as the opinion of everyone on this forum.

 

As for my personal views:

 

I never liked MP, as a person, but did concede he had us playing great football to watch. I am not sure he will replicate that in time at Spurs. We all know how trigger-happy Levy is. Indeed, I sincerely HOPE he fails there!

 

Lambert has clearly been bought as a squad player. However, I wish him well and hope he enjoys his time at Livel.

 

Lallana will now be competing for a first team place with Coutinho, Sterling, and whoever else Liverpool sign. I am sure he play a fair few matches either from the start or as a sub. I do rate him as a player, but severely dislike the way he left us.

 

As for Shaw, he is going to be one of the best left-backs ever (IMHO). However, why did United resign Evra for another year? Just to sit on the bench and be Shaw's understudy? Will Evra will be happy with that? Or is more likely that Shaw will be Evra's understudy FOR THIS ONE COMING SEASON? Of course, it is likely that Utd will let Evra go to Juventus; but then there is the rumour of them wanting to sign Blind. Again, if this were to happen, who do you think LVG will use as his first choice LB this season - Shaw or Blind? Maybe, just maybe, Evra will go and Utd won't sign another LB, trusting solely to Shaw; I guess we will have to wait and see.

[mitch01]

It's bizarre. Appreciate they were great for us and wanted to move on. Disappointing but not a lot to be hateful about, it's wasted energy.

[Fan The Flames]

I've seen quite a few posts saying we now have a better Manager. Which nobody can say before he has even managed a game for us, surely?

 

Pochettino was the best Manager we have had in 20 years in terms of the quality and style of football, and how much the players bought into his methods.

 

He will do really well at Spurs I think.

 

Of course you can claim that one manager is better than another manager if you think their record is better. Whether RK does it at Southampton remains to be seen, but the better the manager you employ the smaller the risk of failure, but a risk remains.