Saint IQ Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 With Wanyama being really deep and the other two (cork n Morgan) being so defensively aware that first 11 would really allow our full backs to push on as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Is there any evidence yet to suggest he is anything other than a Fourpast-like make-weight in the Osvaldo deal ? He had a pretty impressive cameo in the Leverkusen match. If he was playing anywhere else on the park he'd be a starter, but we have 5 or 6 players all worth a place ahead of him who've had the chance to show their worth in competitive matches at this level already, so he's still a bit of a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Anything other than that future being at Saints is going to leave me extremely cheesed off. This has already been by far worst window in my lifetime, don't want to countenance us losing another of our great players and this time for peanuts. Really? Jack Cork? This isn't the Championship you know. I don't want us to sell him, but some of the Cork-love on here is bizarre. He's a solid mid-table Premier League player who is very good at what he does, but he has some glaring weaknesses in his game and he's at best our 3rd best central midfielder - that doesn't say "great" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Really? Jack Cork? This isn't the Championship you know. I don't want us to sell him, but some of the Cork-love on here is bizarre. He's a solid mid-table Premier League player who is very good at what he does, but he has some glaring weaknesses in his game and he's at best our 3rd best central midfielder - that doesn't say "great" to me. "Solid mid table premier league player"-does that now mean that Cork is too good for us as I cant see this squad hitting those dizzy heights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 "Solid mid table premier league player"-does that now mean that Cork is too good for us as I cant see this squad hitting those dizzy heights. Currently he's a "not-getting-into lower mid-table Prem side" level player, so I'm not sure what that's based on? If we continue to perform around 15th-ish I'm sure he'll get the chance to prove why he should be starting every match - which to be fair to him he pretty much did when given the opportunity last season. It is symptomatic of the kind of "he runs around therefore he is amazing" thought process I see on here a lot, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Currently he's a "not-getting-into lower mid-table Prem side" level player, so I'm not sure what that's based on? If we continue to perform around 15th-ish I'm sure he'll get the chance to prove why he should be starting every match - which to be fair to him he pretty much did when given the opportunity last season. It is symptomatic of the kind of "he runs around therefore he is amazing" thought process I see on here a lot, though. Bertrand and Long will end up looking like superstars then, which has already started to happen with Bertrand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Well I'd be more than happy with this in a 4-3-3 ---------Forster Clyne Gardos Fonte Bertrand --------Wanyama-------- -----Cork----Morgan----- Ramirez------------Tadic ----------Pelle--------- It's a dilemma because I really like Cork as a player but we need more creativity not less (if we are going to do more than just survive in this league). That midfield without JWP and Davis is much too defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Bertrand and Long will end up looking like superstars then, which has already started to happen with Bertrand. It is an essential part of modern football for most positions, it's just more obvious in wide roles due to the linear nature of the sprints, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 It's a dilemma because I really like Cork as a player but we need more creativity not less (if we are going to do more than just survive in this league). That midfield without JWP and Davis is much too defensive. I look at that formation and think "if Ramirez or Tadic have it out wide, who are they going to pass to on the edge of the box who can open up the back line?". It's none of those midfield 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 I look at that formation and think "if Ramirez or Tadic have it out wide, who are they going to pass to on the edge of the box who can open up the back line?". It's none of those midfield 3. My early observations are that Koeman allows creativity on the wings to open up space for crosses rather than centrally to create clear cut goalscoring chances. He doesn't appear fussed with creativity in the middle of the park. Everything we do attack wise appears to be down the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Koeman has just denied he will leave in his press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Koeman has just denied he will leave in his press conference. Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 My early observations are that Koeman allows creativity on the wings to open up space for crosses rather than centrally to create clear cut goalscoring chances. He doesn't appear fussed with creativity in the middle of the park. Everything we do attack wise appears to be down the wings. If that is our starting XI for the remainder of the season we will struggle to score enough goals to stay up, let alone challenge upper mid-table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 My early observations are that Koeman allows creativity on the wings to open up space for crosses rather than centrally to create clear cut goalscoring chances. He doesn't appear fussed with creativity in the middle of the park. Everything we do attack wise appears to be down the wings. Well yeah, which is why I'm asking where the creative options would be on the edge of the box in that formation. We've been predictable already, crosses are easy to defend (and have been), and without a viable alternative they will become the only thing a team has to defend against. Steven Davis at least gives an outlet for a relative amount of creativity as he shifts the ball quickly in advanced positions, without losing the closing down and defensive ability from the Cork/Wanyama/Schneiderlin defensive midfield unit. It's not like Pelle has looked like a cross magnet so far either - in fact his relative successes in the air on Tuesday show that maybe that approach is better suited to exploiting a lower standard of defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Eh? Just denied CORK will leave, I'm guessing. It is the Jack Cork thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Just denied CORK will leave, I'm guessing. It is the Jack Cork thread... Righty o thought koeman was deny he was leaving. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Koeman has just denied he will leave in his press conference. Eh? Ronald Koeman in the last few minutes during his pre-match press conference said Jack Cork won't be sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 #TeamMLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Just denied CORK will leave, I'm guessing. It is the Jack Cork thread... Also gets confusing when exactly the same words are posted on two threads (well it does for me). :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Well yeah, which is why I'm asking where the creative options would be on the edge of the box in that formation. We've been predictable already, crosses are easy to defend (and have been), and without a viable alternative they will become the only thing a team has to defend against. Steven Davis at least gives an outlet for a relative amount of creativity as he shifts the ball quickly in advanced positions, without losing the closing down and defensive ability from the Cork/Wanyama/Schneiderlin defensive midfield unit. It's not like Pelle has looked like a cross magnet so far either - in fact his relative successes in the air on Tuesday show that maybe that approach is better suited to exploiting a lower standard of defending. I'm not saying someone who can create centrally isn't welcome, but I just think Koeman doesn't see it as an important part in his formation. If you look at our signings in that part of the pitch it's all about size and pace - nothing too subtle or clever about it. Redmond or Townsend would further add to that. Quick football in the final third with lots of width. No dragging players out of position and exploiting space, just law of averages and pounding away to make a breakthrough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Well that is positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 SaintsNews&Views @SaintsfcViews 2m RK will keep assessing Jack Corks performances before deciding whether to offer him a contract, but has been impressed by his performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 SaintsNews&Views @SaintsfcViews 2m RK will keep assessing Jack Corks performances before deciding whether to offer him a contract, but has been impressed by his performances. Wooo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 SaintsNews&Views @SaintsfcViews 2m RK will keep assessing Jack Corks performances before deciding whether to offer him a contract, but has been impressed by his performances. fantastic news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 ....and in the real world Cork will run down his contract to zero. Interesting thought process by Saints. Makes perfect sense football wise but no sense business wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Sign him up, criminal if we don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Sign him up, criminal if we don't Amen to that. If Saints have ANY intention of keeping him they should put up NOW, and not drag it out. He may be (unfavourably) compared to Wanyama, but he has seldom let us down whenever called upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 He'll be signed up by Xmas imo , needs to be can't he talk to other clubs in January? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 He'll be signed up by Xmas imo , needs to be can't he talk to other clubs in January? Foreign clubs I think, not UK clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 I'm not saying someone who can create centrally isn't welcome' date=' but I just think Koeman doesn't see it as an important part in his formation. If you look at our signings in that part of the pitch it's all about size and pace - nothing too subtle or clever about it. Redmond or Townsend would further add to that. Quick football in the final third with lots of width. No dragging players out of position and exploiting space, just law of averages and pounding away to make a breakthrough.[/quote'] .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Foreign clubs I think, not UK clubs. Any clubs, provided they're over 23. Both to freely negotiate and sign a pre-contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Any clubs, provided they're over 23. Both to freely negotiate and sign a pre-contract. Isn't that just a month before the existing contract expires ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 ....and in the real world Cork will run down his contract to zero. Interesting thought process by Saints. Makes perfect sense football wise but no sense business wise. Depends if you think he's worth losing the amount we'd get for selling him now in order to secure his services for the rest of the season. Or to look at it another way, would you pay, say, £5m (or however much) to buy Cork for a season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 Isn't that just a month before the existing contract expires ? Nope, from 6 months before expiry, i.e. in January. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_transfer_(association_football) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 28 August, 2014 Share Posted 28 August, 2014 .. That is just based on what I am seeing. It may be too early to make any conclusions but the three midfielders aren't too dynamic in the final third and the two wide players certainly play far wider than we experienced under Adkins and Pochettino. Maybe it will all come together and we'll start to see different things but at the moment I don't see much happening from anything we do in the middle of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 He'll be signed up by Xmas imo , needs to be can't he talk to other clubs in January? ...but of course his agent can talk to whoever he wants to ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 Depends if you think he's worth losing the amount we'd get for selling him now in order to secure his services for the rest of the season. Or to look at it another way, would you pay, say, £5m (or however much) to buy Cork for a season? Well the maths says that that is a (notional) £96,000 per week + his actual current wages. Slightly at odds with not giving him a new contract. Wouldn't make logical sense which is my point albeit in long hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 Corks Dad thinks he is being messed about....would be inclined (for once) to agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 Corks Dad thinks he is being messed about....would be inclined (for once) to agree with him. Cork's Dad has been twittering on for months. Can Jack not fight his own battles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 I look at that formation and think "if Ramirez or Tadic have it out wide, who are they going to pass to on the edge of the box who can open up the back line?". It's none of those midfield 3. Morgan pops up with the odd goal. That formation would be ideal against the top 6, not so much against a team that will sit back and play for a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 Alan Cork @alancorky Getting a bit fed up now, reading in the paper that RK says Jack has to earn a new contract, me thinks he is playing a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 Alan Cork @alancorky Getting a bit fed up now, reading in the paper that RK says Jack has to earn a new contract, me thinks he is playing a game I'm getting a bit fed up now of him spouting off to be honest. He's not helping his son in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 I'm getting a bit fed up now of him spouting off to be honest. He's not helping his son in the slightest. Its a fair point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 Its a fair point though. It is, but given who he is there are different ways to go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 It is, but given who he is there are different ways to go about it. He is just a Father commenting on his Son's situation. He might come across like a wally, but quite likely that he knows more about the situation than we do, and probably is echoing the way Jack feels. Not saying he is handling it very well, but his Dad is nothing to do with the club so he can do/say what he wants, as can we on here. Could not blame Cork for wanting to leave, the treatment of him is baffling and a little disrespectful for someone who has done a great job here and never been a minute's trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 He is just a Father commenting on his Son's situation. He might come across like a wally, but quite likely that he knows more about the situation than we do, and probably is echoing the way Jack feels. Not saying he is handling it very well, but his Dad is nothing to do with the club so he can do/say what he wants, as can we on here. Could not blame Cork for wanting to leave, the treatment of him is baffling and a little disrespectful for someone who has done a great job here and never been a minute's trouble. Fair enough. I definitely agree the treatment of him by the club seems very disrespectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 It is a strange one, maybe the club just don't fancy him? It's hard to say he has to prove himself, as he's proven himself for 2 seasons in the PL! And the club offered Fonte and Reed new contracts without allowing them to 'prove' themselves to the new manager. I reckon this will be a classic contract wind down job and will end up with us being forced to cash in during January for £2m or something - the club will still see it as making a profit on him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 He is too good a player for a club the size of Saints to lose this easily. Very strange decision. Was also interesting that Koeman has mentioned about "the club" deciding on his future rather than Koeman himself. In the programme, Fonte said Saints had been trying to get him to sign a deal since January, yet Cork hasnt seemingly been offered one. Maybe its more a club decision than Koemans? If so, thats never a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 It's just penny pinching from the Club....A new contract for Jack will result in a pay rise. If they delay the new contract for a month or so, they may risk ****ing him off to point that he want's to leave but they get to save a few bucks....That's the way things are done at SFC these days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratio_decidendi Posted 29 August, 2014 Share Posted 29 August, 2014 It's just penny pinching from the Club....A new contract for Jack will result in a pay rise. If they delay the new contract for a month or so, they may risk ****ing him off to point that he want's to leave but they get to save a few bucks....That's the way things are done at SFC these days.... You're working under a very cynical assumption there. Do you have any evidence to back it up? Considering that the board have spent heavily this summer, I'm not so sure you're right in suggesting they're penny pinching when it comes to the delay in giving Cork a new contract. In my opinion, it's about giving Jack an incentive to perform and improve his game. There's absolutely no point in rushing in and giving him a pay rise when come January he may be surplus to requirements. It's a sensible strategy from the board and Jack, being an astute professional, is probably under no illusions as to what's happening. Is he likely to kick off as other players have done? As much as I would like to see him stay with Southampton, I wouldn't be too comfortable if it's in the place of a different and more beneficial player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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