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Goalkeeper Situation


Saint Charlie

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Unbelievably naive, if not stupid, oversight not to get a better back up gk if we don't do it.

 

Imagine having to rely on KD or PG for a 5/6 game run , with a cup final place , and CL contention at stake.

 

Exactly. Those who say Davis is "good backup" must have missed the times he has played in the last two seasons and age and not playing would suggest he has declined since then.

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Boruc first loan was an emergency loan, we could have recalled and I'd be grateful if you post the link to where Koeman said that. His second loan is a long term loan. As Boruc is a goalkeeper we can recall. Rule 6.6.3

 

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/rules-of-the-association/2013-14/standardised-rules.ashx

 

I am sure the club want shot of Boruc, but if Fraser breaks a leg February 1st they will suffer him.

 

The first paragraph of the rules state they are for "Competitions at Steps 1 to 6 inclusive of the National League System". I don't think this includes the Premier League, Championship, League One or League Two. The NLS is everything outside the professional divisions. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_league_system

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Fine, but we have a number 2 keeper if Forster is injured - Boruc? The best part is he's been playing regularly so won't be rusty.

 

The worst part though is that he is at another club on loan. I believe he can only be recalled if that was agreed in the contract terms, which we're not privy too. The rule sheet that was shared earlier about how we can recall him applies to non-league football. FIFA's transfer rules are here: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/95/83/85/regulationsstatusandtransfer_2014_e_neutral.pdf

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The worst part though is that he is at another club on loan. I believe he can only be recalled if that was agreed in the contract terms, which we're not privy too. The rule sheet that was shared earlier about how we can recall him applies to non-league football. FIFA's transfer rules are here: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/95/83/85/regulationsstatusandtransfer_2014_e_neutral.pdf

 

Think it's different if it's a keeper as per St Chalet's post earlier.

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Not sure, you'd have to ask Koeman. Let's wait and see before speculating on something none of us, including you, have a clue about.

 

Of course. Just from what has been said by both so far.

 

Boruc has no future here so a bit rich to suddenly beg him to come in and perform brilliantly.

 

Also a proper kick in the teeth for our other keepers.

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The first paragraph of the rules state they are for "Competitions at Steps 1 to 6 inclusive of the National League System". I don't think this includes the Premier League, Championship, League One or League Two. The NLS is everything outside the professional divisions. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_league_system

How many keepers get loaned for whole/half seasons between, say, Hampshire League clubs?

 

Genuine question, can't imagine it is that many.

 

I think the point is that I am not sure the FA have jurisdiction over the Premier and Football League loan system. We already know the two leagues have different loan rules to each other, and the agreement from a couple of years ago for Prem teams to loan between themselves was agreed by the 20 clubs, it wasn't an FA ruling.

 

So the FA rules is not where we should be going for guidance on this, I guess.

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  • 2 months later...
The situation you feared. Kelvin didn't let us down today.

 

No he didn't.

 

But far from ideal going into the most crucial spell of the season with a 38 year old who has never been a successful PL keeper and is the third best keeper the club owns.

 

Nothing that can be done so hopefully Kelvin does well but every other time he has had a run of games in the PL he has been dropped.

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Kelvin was MOM contender in my opinion. 2 great saves (at least) which if they went past him could have meant a very different result. Also, good early running off his line to neutralize Burnley opportunities. No complaints at all. I was proud of him.

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Am I right in thinking we have had less direct shots on goal against us than any other team in the Premiership ?

i know I'm right that we have the best defensive record in the league.

So Kelvin in goal, and remember he is a good shot stopper, with that defence in front of him protecting him isn't the end if the world.

There have been a fair few games Forster has had little to do, I see no reason for that to change as long as Jose, Toby and the full backs stay fit !

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It's quite difficult to get a top keeper as backup. Maybe if you are one of the top teams in Europe, people will be happy to benchsit - but I think for us it's either gonna be the ageing pro with lots of experience, or the up and coming youth player, as your game time is virtually zero. Not sure we could do much better than Kelvin Davis as a backup.

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It's quite difficult to get a top keeper as backup. Maybe if you are one of the top teams in Europe, people will be happy to benchsit - but I think for us it's either gonna be the ageing pro with lots of experience, or the up and coming youth player, as your game time is virtually zero. Not sure we could do much better than Kelvin Davis as a backup.

 

Being blunt - most other PL teams do have better backup than Davis, so it is possible.

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Being blunt - most other PL teams do have better backup than Davis, so it is possible.

 

That's fair - was more responding to the attitude of some that we should have a backup that could actually compete with main one, which would be hard as there's no real rotation in keepers (which also means it's hard to assess as an ordinary fan the relative strength of them, especially if they have no premier league game' time.

 

I wonder if anyone could find a list of backup keepers in the prem!

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I'm not particularly worried with KD in goal, our defence is so much stronger than it was when he was first choice and he showed today he still has his reflexes. More work in training and some more match fitness and i'm fairly confident we won't miss Fraser too much.

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That's fair - was more responding to the attitude of some that we should have a backup that could actually compete with main one, which would be hard as there's no real rotation in keepers (which also means it's hard to assess as an ordinary fan the relative strength of them, especially if they have no premier league game' time.

 

I wonder if anyone could find a list of backup keepers in the prem!

 

Yeah of course a club of our size won't have a no 2 as good as the 1.

 

Other backups include Cech, Valdes, Szeczny, Joel, Jaaskalinen, Henessey, Elliott, Butland, Vorm, Friedel, Tremmel, Myhill, Hamer, Jones, Mannone, McCarthy etc.

 

Some fairly decent keepers there. Someone like McCarthy is a great prospect yet is behind Green at QPR.

 

It is possible to have a solid no 2. Maybe Davis will be that in which case we are fine but he has not been great since we returned to the PL over a run of 5-10 games.

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Being blunt - most other PL teams do have better backup than Davis, so it is possible.

 

Most others or a few topsides? Any keeper who is happy being a number 2 is either an old pro at the end of their career or youngster just starting out. At least Kelvin is a club man and understands what being a saints player means.

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Most others or a few topsides? Any keeper who is happy being a number 2 is either an old pro at the end of their career or youngster just starting out. At least Kelvin is a club man and understands what being a saints player means.

 

Most IMO. Lots of Intls sat on benches of the likes of Palace, QPR, Newcastle etc.

 

But true, he is Saints through and through.

 

Main issue is Gazza hasnt progressed as planned. If he had then he really should have overtaken KD as no 2 keeper by now.

 

Not Saints related but WBA just confirmed Ben Foster has had ligament reconstruction surgery and is out for 6 months, targetting an October return. He walked off the pitch last week.

 

Forster could easily be similar. Hopefully not.

Edited by Saint Charlie
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Most others or a few topsides? Any keeper who is happy being a number 2 is either an old pro at the end of their career or youngster just starting out. At least Kelvin is a club man and understands what being a saints player means.

 

:thumbup:

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Don't really understand the panic, Kelv hasn't been kept on for sentimental reasons! and Boruc was allowed to go on loan because management believed Kelv was still good enough enough to be backup, he has a solid defence in front of him, Management has shown time and again that they know what their doing, so lets all relax and enjoy the end to this amazing season.......not bad for relegation fodder are we!:smug:

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Figuratively crapped my pants when Kelv came on today. I have never been impressed with him as a Premier League keeper. That said, he has never had a finer Southampton outfield in front of him than he did today. The goalkeeper should be a last resort, and when called upon, Kelv did his job.

 

Prior experience would suggest doom based on individiual performance, and I'm not trying to sugarcoat this. We are poorer without Forster in goal. However, we are richer on other areas of the pitch, and the services of the goalkeeper can be greatly facilitated by the work that other players do.

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