James Ward-Prowse's list of indisputable, unimprovable weaknesses

[shurlock]

Everyone is replaceable with a better player, we can't afford them - we wouldn't be able to afford probably half of the current team at their existing market value.

 

Long is a bit of an outlier from our transfer policy of buying cheap and improving players, he obviously came up high on the black box and hit a lot of the intangibles and does a lot of unheralded stuff.

 

#moneyball

[Donatello]

He gets loads of support from the Management who always bring him back into the starting XI despite average performances.

 

He should start repaying that faith!

 

What would you call that assist on Saturday? I'm not hyping a single assist, but that's exactly the sort of 'repayment' I'd be looking for.

[saint1977]

I think JWP will mature into a fine player, and it's just time and physical development. He needs to play at a level currently where he'd stand out to gain consistency and that would be the Championship. Might not get a game at Derby or Boro but Hull might be a good bet or a side on the fringe of the play offs. He should be part of the future plans but with the bottom sides picking up points this weekend and the TV deal next season, we need to freshen up the midfield in the short-term to get results. I'd also sell Wanyama to achieve that aim.

[Whitey Grandad]

What would you call that assist on Saturday? I'm not hyping a single assist, but that's exactly the sort of 'repayment' I'd be looking for.

 

Is that the assist for their corner where he ran out several yards and left a gaping channel for them to hammer the ball across goal to Lescott?

 

As others have said, he may well develop into a great midfielder, it's just that he's some way off that at the moment and probably not what we need at the moment.

Edited 7 December, 2015 by Whitey Grandad
Speeling

[St Marco]

He is ****. For someone with nearly 100 pl games under their belt you would think he would show more experience in certain situations.

His stats are terrible.

[baggytrousers]

He is not **** by any stretch of the imagination. That's just using him as a scapegoat for some unimpressive team results recently.

 

That having been said I don't think he should get into our current first team ahead of Clasie or even Romeu. However, I'm also not upset if I see his name on the teamsheet as he's an OK player.

 

Would hope he can turn into a very good player in the coming years but he's clearly not there yet. Still learning. He may get there, he may not but some of the rubbish written on this thread isn't doing him any favours at all.

[VectisSaint]

I think JWP will mature into a fine player, and it's just time and physical development. He needs to play at a level currently where he'd stand out to gain consistency and that would be the Championship.

Think he would actually do better with a loan to Spain, rather than the Championship. Gary Neville could take him on and give him a season to develop in a league where pace is not so critical and where his decent technique would be valued.

In the Championship he would probably get kicked off the park.

[Dangermouth]

and even that can be improved with the correct gym work he may never be lightning quick but his pace could improve with the correct conditioning.

 

The challenge is doing the right gym work to improve his strength and athleticism without damaging his other attributes!

 

Well he's been a professional footballer for years. Been at a good club. Played a large number of games at a high level and now the coaches will decide he's a bit slow. Would have thought they'd have noticed a few years ago and worked on it since. Would have thought there were other things they'd have noticed too. As for the coaches/managers liking him. I don't care what he shows in training, only in games. If he can't do enough in those then he's not good enough. And he's had a lot of opportunity, he's been given a lot of time by the fans and posters here who have only really started to criticise him all the time here recently and he has not yet put even two good games together. Let alone half a season which would make him inconsistent. He's poor and that's it. There's no point in loaning him out and I can't see us selling him until he turns out to be good. So we're stuck with him and left to just hope he can do more than copy Jonny Wilkinson.

[Saint Charlie]

Think he would actually do better with a loan to Spain, rather than the Championship. Gary Neville could take him on and give him a season to develop in a league where pace is not so critical and where his decent technique would be valued.

In the Championship he would probably get kicked off the park.

He wouldn't get anywhere near the Valencia team!

[Dangermouth]

What would you call that assist on Saturday? I'm not hyping a single assist, but that's exactly the sort of 'repayment' I'd be looking for.

 

 

It was a corner. It went through a load of people it shouldn't have and Romeu kind of shinned it in. Hardly great play, more as much as a cock up as Villa's.

[Saint Without a Halo]

He certainly has his critics on here but he is highly thought of by previous managers, Koeman, Southgate and Hodgson, there opinions mean more to me, a lot to come from the youngster yet.

 

This!

a lot of managers rate him highly he has the ability and also importantly the commitment and temperament to improve a lot more and he will

[Saint Without a Halo]

Think he would actually do better with a loan to Spain, rather than the Championship. Gary Neville could take him on and give him a season to develop in a league where pace is not so critical and where his decent technique would be valued.

In the Championship he would probably get kicked off the park.

 

Juanmi is proven in Spain and already a Spanish Imternational but can't get a run in mid table premier side

JWP has 100 premier appearances and is a year younger

Not sure how Spain will help?

Give him time he will come good remember Morgan got slagged off for not being league 1 standard at a similar age and look how he developed!

[Saint Benali]

This!

a lot of managers rate him highly he has the ability and also importantly the commitment and temperament to improve a lot more and he will

 

They rate him so highly that younger players who played far less get picked ahead of him for the national team. Delle Alli etc. And those who are the same age and have far less experience get picked ahead of him Eric Dier, Lingard (who played a total of 4 pl games in his life when he was picked).

 

All I hear is how they rate his ability from dead ball situations. Football is far more then that.

[Tom & Gerry]

I thought the team looked better balanced with him in on Saturday. I bet he covered more ground than most other players. The trouble is that Clasie (whatever his attributes) has not fitted in as yet.

[saintdean]

Give him time he will come good remember Morgan got slagged off for not being league 1 standard at a similar age and look how he developed!

I do wonder if the people slagging off JWP are the same people that were slagging off Morgan back in league 1? We don't seem to have much patience with young players.

[angelman]

He's got more bite to his game these days. His shooting needs some work on, but he isn't the only one that applies to. I'm not sure quite where he is playing. He seems to come as DM and then be expected to be the creative play maker. Certainly I feel the midfield with him, Wanyama and Davies lacks a bit of creativity.

[Village Saint]

I thought the team looked better balanced with him in on Saturday. I bet he covered more ground than most other players. The trouble is that Clasie (whatever his attributes) has not fitted in as yet.

 

Indeed it did. Hopefully the flirtation with Clasie is over. JWP should be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Has come on leaps and bounds this year and all the signs are that he will get better and better.

[Saint Benali]

I do wonder if the people slagging off JWP are the same people that were slagging off Morgan back in league 1? We don't seem to have much patience with young players.

 

Who were these people slagging Morgan off? I have tried to find that thread but couldn't.

 

All I remember was that first season in League one we were ****. Everyone was really. Morgan was 18-19 that season not 21 as is JWP.

 

The difference I find with the two is that we all knew what type of player Morgan was. We knew he would be a defensive CM. He had to build up a lot of his game and physical attributes to become that type of player.

Where as JWP after 100+ appearances I still have no idea what type of player he is or what position he will develop into. He isn't a creative CM, he isn't a winger, he isn't a defensive CM. For me that is what annoys me about the team right now. If we had a creative player in the middle in the mould of someone like Silva, Mata or even Rat Boy we would score more goals.

Those players are expensive and obviously wouldn't come here. But the point remains the same, we need someone who can create things now, not 'could maybe one day'.

[saintdean]

Who were these people slagging Morgan off? I have tried to find that thread but couldn't.

 

All I remember was that first season in League one we were ****. Everyone was really. Morgan was 18-19 that season not 21 as is JWP.

 

The difference I find with the two is that we all knew what type of player Morgan was. We knew he would be a defensive CM. He had to build up a lot of his game and physical attributes to become that type of player.

Where as JWP after 100+ appearances I still have no idea what type of player he is or what position he will develop into. He isn't a creative CM, he isn't a winger, he isn't a defensive CM. For me that is what annoys me about the team right now. If we had a creative player in the middle in the mould of someone like Silva, Mata or even Rat Boy we would score more goals.

Those players are expensive and obviously wouldn't come here. But the point remains the same, we need someone who can create things now, not 'could maybe one day'.

 

I remember plenty of people slagging him off at games, it could have just been the vocal minority but there was definitely a lot.

 

I disagree about knowing Morgans position though, I remember him being played in the more advanced position quite often (under Pardew I think). I do agree though that the club need to decide on which position they want him to play and let him (attempt to) master it.

[simo]

No chance they will sell him. But Long certainly replaceable with a better player.

 

Long currently has 3 goals in 6 starts !

[Window Cleaner]

I remember plenty of people slagging him off at games, it could have just been the vocal minority but there was definitely a lot.

 

I disagree about knowing Morgans position though, I remember him being played in the more advanced position quite often (under Pardew I think). I do agree though that the club need to decide on which position they want him to play and let him (attempt to) master it.

 

The old fogies "get it forward into the box" were rampant at the time, why we even had a poll concerning the relative merits of Paul Wotton and Morgan.

 

Some people know very little about modern football I suppose, then again they pays their money and that's their prerogative.

[simo]

They rate him so highly that younger players who played far less get picked ahead of him for the national team. Delle Alli etc. And those who are the same age and have far less experience get picked ahead of him Eric Dier, Lingard (who played a total of 4 pl games in his life when he was picked).

 

All I hear is how they rate his ability from dead ball situations. Football is far more then that.

 

He is being held back in the u21s on purpose to develop and lead them to qualification !

[derry]

If we are to move forward we have to bring in midfielders that can get forward on the break and score goals as Wijnaldum did for Newcastle, not pass it backwards and sideways slowing the momentum. Davis, JWP, Clasie and Wanyama by not scoring enough goals are holding us back. JWP hasn't scored in play in four seasons, forget it, he isn't going to start now, he needs replacing with somebody who wants to score. We are very limited with only two players that get goals as Tadic rarely does either.

[derry]

He is being held back in the u21s on purpose to develop and lead them to qualification !

 

Then get left out in the finals, dream on. His last game was a mess until the Sunderland lad game on and turned it around in fifteen minutes including getting JWP a penalty in the process.

Edited 7 December, 2015 by derry

[northam soul]

Indeed it did. Hopefully the flirtation with Clasie is over. JWP should be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Has come on leaps and bounds this year and all the signs are that he will get better and better.

 

What signs are they , please enlighten me. To say he runs around a lot is not a reason to play

him. Did you see his booking on saturday and that was the closest he got to making a tackle. If he hadn't come through our academy you would all be wanting him out.

[Donatello]

It was a corner. It went through a load of people it shouldn't have and Romeu kind of shinned it in. Hardly great play, more as much as a cock up as Villa's.

 

I suggest you re-watch the goal.

 

As for it being a corner, what does that have to do with the value of an assist? Ramirez was lauded by many for a 5 yard tap on the 40-yard line a few weeks back.

[doddisalegend]

If the lad had come from somewhere other than our academy and was called Yakov Wardov-Prowsivich or something he wouldn't half as many fans as he does. Personally think he is technically good with a ball at his feet but he really doesn't have any outstanding features to nail down a position in the team Davis is better in the AM role (though we could do better there to), Claise, Romeu and Vic are all better DMs and Tadic is better out wide . I think he is one of those utility players who can do an OK job in a few different positions (without being really outstanding) which makes him a useful player to have in the squad IMO.

[Donatello]

Is that the assist for their corner where he ran out several yards and left a gaping channel for them to hammer the ball across goal to Lescott?

 

You think him responsible for their first goal? Two words, 'man-marking'

[derry]

I suggest you re-watch the goal.

 

As for it being a corner, what does that have to do with the value of an assist? Ramirez was lauded by many for a 5 yard tap on the 40-yard line a few weeks back.

 

JWP would probably passed it backwards, not played a one touch play in. Nice header for Mane's equaliser at Liverpool.

[Donatello]

If the lad had come from somewhere other than our academy and was called Yakov Wardov-Prowsivich or something he wouldn't half as many fans as he does. Personally think he is technically good with a ball at his feet but he really doesn't have any outstanding features to nail down a position in the team Davis is better in the AM role (though we could do better there to), Claise, Romeu and Vic are all better DMs and Tadic is better out wide . I think he is one of those utility players who can do an OK job in a few different positions (without being really outstanding) which makes him a useful player to have in the squad IMO.

 

That's about the sum of it. Certainly how I see it.

 

P.S Although I would add that his corners are the best in the team (imo), so that's 'outstanding' to an extent.

Edited 7 December, 2015 by Donatello

[Saint Benali]

To be fair that corner was pretty horrific. People slate Romeu sometimes but I thought he was very brave, as how many times do we see balls like that come in and a player goes into the post?

[doddisalegend]

That's about the sum of it. Certainly how I see it.

 

P.S Although I would add that his corners are the best in the team (imo), so that's 'outstanding' to an extent.

 

Certainly better than Tadic's corners in recent weeks. I guess the argument is weather it's worth having JWP in the team to take good corners.

[Saint_clark]

Out of those only the first is "unimprovable". Which isn't a word, by the way.

[Window Cleaner]

Out of those only the first is "unimprovable". Which isn't a word, by the way.

 

Then again irremediable is probably unknown to 3/4 of our posters.

The standard of English on this forum goes downhill by the day, I just assume it's a fair reflection of the standard of education in the UK of the time.

1 post down "weather" instead of whether but I presume that's predictive text again.

[Whitey Grandad]

Out of those only the first is "unimprovable". Which isn't a word, by the way.

 

It is now, and I don't think it can be bettered

[ScepticalStan]

Interesting how absolutely no managers have made a bid for him despite his supposed talent and potential, coupled with the fact that we're a club obviously willing to sell at the right price.

 

Funny that isn't it?

 

And incredibly inconvenient for those that insist that his getting selected by Koeman (with no other options available to him of course) proves that experienced footballing minds actually rate his ability.

 

Mane was written off after 10 matches in which he showed bags of ability and will be the subject of bids for £30Mn+ in the summer.

 

JWP has been given 'time and patience' after having absolutely no impact on the 100 or so matches he's played in and will attract no suitors whatsoever in the summer.

 

I wonder why?

[Wopper]

If he improves he won't hang round this club long.

[Roger]

Indeed it did. Hopefully the flirtation with Clasie is over. JWP should be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Has come on leaps and bounds this year and all the signs are that he will get better and better.

 

Just utter rubbish.

[StMarv]

This is a crazy thread. He does whatever Ron tells him to do if he didn’t he wouldn’t get picked. Yes the club are patient with him and rightly so, he’s 21 years old. It’s complete BS to quote his ‘100 games and no progress’ fact. He’s clocked 100 games in the PL because he’s a good young talent and been picked by successive managers. He is judged harshly simply because he hasn’t continued along the exponential progress rate he set as a kid and teenager.

Sell him in January? … F***ing mental!

Loan him to a championship side?..... Even more F***cking Mental!

At 21 he is competing in midfield in the toughest league in the world, against some the best midfielders in the world, and lets not forget he’s one of our own and loves our club.

Time is a real gentleman, let’s give him the time he needs!

[Dangermouth]

I suggest you re-watch the goal.

 

As for it being a corner, what does that have to do with the value of an assist? Ramirez was lauded by many for a 5 yard tap on the 40-yard line a few weeks back.

 

Thank you for your erudite post. I have watched the goal again. Same conclusion. It should have been cleared by a half decent defence before it got near Romeu.

 

As for the validity of the response, if you can I suggest you look at Can's ball to Sturridge as what would be considered a 'proper' assist rather than say a punt from the keeper which bounces over everyone and lands at someone's feet.

[Dangermouth]

This is a crazy thread. He does whatever Ron tells him to do if he didn’t he wouldn’t get picked. Yes the club are patient with him and rightly so, he’s 21 years old. It’s complete BS to quote his ‘100 games and no progress’ fact. He’s clocked 100 games in the PL because he’s a good young talent and been picked by successive managers. He is judged harshly simply because he hasn’t continued along the exponential progress rate he set as a kid and teenager.

Sell him in January? … F***ing mental!

Loan him to a championship side?..... Even more F***cking Mental!

At 21 he is competing in midfield in the toughest league in the world, against some the best midfielders in the world, and lets not forget he’s one of our own and loves our club.

Time is a real gentleman, let’s give him the time he needs!

 

I really can think of no game where he has excelled, or done so for any real amount of time nor taken the game by the scruff of its neck or anything. Yes, he's young but he's also played lots of games which most agree is the best way to learn the game and even though he's being treated a bit like a journeyman being expected to fill in here and there he should be doing better than he does many of us think. We also do not see any sign that he's brilliant but inconsistent or any indication that he hasn't reached the very heights of his ability. One of the criticisms of Reed is that all he does is play the ball safely and keep it moving but doesn't actually do anything and the same is true of JWP for the most part and we all know that propaganda football might look pretty but it's wholly ineffective.

[Convict Colony]

The return of goals from attempts on goal from free kicks is abysmal for a dead ball specialist.

 

0 goals from a lot of free kicks

 

Seriously probability would of said he should of fluked one in by now.

[derry]

Targett put in a nice free kick last night, into the danger area between the GK and defenders and attackers inside the far post bending in.

[haddock22]

He's a right footed Andrew Surman , may have a premiership career at a yoyo club , but no way he'll ever deliver on the hype . If he plays for England , then we really will be pony . Has not progressed anywhere near enough to justify any hope he'll be the next big thing.

 

Good at bouncing the ball prior to a free kick or corner , shame he's not 6ft 9 as he maybe better at basket ball .

 

yes thats the best description of him so far a one pace andrew surman.cheque please

[The9]

And incredibly inconvenient for those that insist that his getting selected by Koeman (with no other options available to him of course) proves that experienced footballing minds actually rate his ability.

 

"No other options available to him" apart from Wanyama, Romeu, Clasie, Reed, Tadic, Mane, Davis, Ramirez, Juanmi, Long, Rodriguez (when fit) and a bunch of U21s. I've probably forgotten someone too. Yeah, he's in "by default".

[The9]

yes thats the best description of him so far a one pace andrew surman.cheque please

 

Bit of a tautology that. That was the main thing holding Surman back.

[The9]

The return of goals from attempts on goal from free kicks is abysmal for a dead ball specialist.

 

0 goals from a lot of free kicks

 

Seriously probability would of said he should of fluked one in by now.

 

He might do if he stopped aiming a yard wide of the post. I assume that's where he's aiming, as all of his free-kicks end up there.

[baggytrousers]

yes thats the best description of him so far a one pace andrew surman.cheque please

 

This whole thread is as daft as the Everton fans who gave Barkley stick last season

[ScepticalStan]

"No other options available to him" apart from Wanyama, Romeu, Clasie, Reed, Tadic, Mane, Davis, Ramirez, Juanmi, Long, Rodriguez (when fit) and a bunch of U21s. I've probably forgotten someone too. Yeah, he's in "by default".

 

Absolutely none of those players play the position of a technical, ball-playing central-midfielder other than Clasie who's been injured.

 

Let me ask you a question.

 

In the summer. Do you think any big clubs will come in for JWP? How much will they bid?

 

Conversely, same question with regard to Mane and Wanyama

[austsaint]

This whole thread is as daft as the Everton fans who gave Barkley stick last season

 

Prowsey will never be as good or as influential as Barkley, Dia, Dier etc - he just hasn't got the attributes that many other young English players do - I think that's the point of this whole thread.