Adam Armstrong

[Teddeer]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

The Leeds goal was a goal scored from fairly close range as a result of being in the right position no? The Burnley goal less so, but still one where put through without much beating of defenders required (one defender not getting close enough to him to block a shot). I think a lot of his chances (Volley from Livra cross in the Burnley game, shot from centre of the box when ball dropped to him in same game) tend to come from good positioning in the box more than actively beating a man.

Which I why I say he functions more as a poacher. He rolled a man and hit the post against West Ham but that I think is the only time he's made his own chance I can remember, maybe the one where he skied it although can't remember the game. I also don't recall him ever setting up a team mate. I think for Albania he has made chances but I question the quality of opposition. It is more that his threat mainly comes from being well placed to score and putting it away is why the poacher label fits so far. If he adapts his international game to the league then he could be a great all round player.

Then we differ in our opinions of how a poacher operates which is fair enough.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Teddeer said:

Then we differ in our opinions of how a poacher operates which is fair enough.

Yeah to be honest I think a lot of little disputes on this forum often come down to differences in how people use certain football words. I think we fundementally agree on Brojas skillset and the fact that skillset is definitely of use to us. We just differ on what we'd name it.

I personally think long term Armstrong will be of more use to us but that is a highly subjective view and we probably won't be able to test that hypothesis for a few years probably!

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Back to your usual Turkish? You start insulting and trying to belittle posters with a different opinion to your own then, when they respond in kind, you accuse them of becoming insulting. It seems we have a raft of such posters and posting style on here of late. Such a shame. You can clearly express your views and put across good arguments when you want to.

I didn't insult anyone pal, just pointing out that what he's saying is nothing new, it's been done before many times. Unfortunately he didn't seem to like this and responded telling me i was thick and a rather patronising comment about understanding books but not computers. I'm not even that old, i remember being in my teens and twenties though thinking i knew it all and all this brand new stuff i was discovering had already been done decades before. I used to think my parents and their age group didn't know anything and had never done any of the things i had, when you get to 35 you only leave the house to go to work. As you mature a bit you realise that isn't the case.  I guess that's what TWwar is going through now. 

[The Left Back]

We could be conflating several issues here.  Older v younger, pro-stats v anti-stats, progressive v traditionalist, player v non-player.

I'm 57.  I've been in the Kingsland stand since the stadium was built.  We've had a core of about 15 people round us that whole time, and have got to know them all pretty well. (during the dark times it's one of the things that keeps me renewing).  I say this because the cross-section of the group I sit with does not conform to the stereotypes above.  There is plenty of disagreement, particularly over the merits of Redmond, keep ball v more direct, Stephens v Bednarek, leaving a man up when we defend a corner - the list goes on.  But the stereotypes are different.  There's a young lad who's views on the game I imagine line up pretty will with someone like @Turkish.  And there is a granddad who talks about Paine and Davies, but considers comparison between eras meaningless and so is rooted in the game today.  We've got a guy my age who seems to know all the stats - a sort of John Motson type and a woman who swears like a trooper and loves to see fisticuffs.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's risky to make generalisations and can often end up in a fairly pointless debate.

Oh and I guess, to bang this old drum again, it safe to say that although we have disagreements in the stadium we never end up finding the need to disrespect those we disagree with.  There's often banter, but we realise we have to sit next to each other every match, and besides we actually quite like each other and share the ups and downs of the club.  There is a truism that we feel able to insult people when we are on-line in a way that most of us wouldn't in real life.   

Sorry for a second post today having a go at people's behaviour on here.  I must be in that sort of mood.

PS forgot to say.  I don't see Broja as a poacher at all.  The word I would use is a finisher.  I think I understand the suggestion that he doesn't create goals for others in the way that someone like Lambert was good at.  But I just haven't seen enough of him to know.  But he does look like someone who will be an excellent finisher.  

Edited 2 November, 2021 by The Left Back

[Billy the Kidd]

34 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

We could be conflating several issues here.  Older v younger, pro-stats v anti-stats, progressive v traditionalist, player v non-player.

I'm 57.  I've been in the Kingsland stand since the stadium was built.  We've had a core of about 15 people round us that whole time, and have got to know them all pretty well. (during the dark times it's one of the things that keeps me renewing).  I say this because the cross-section of the group I sit with does not conform to the stereotypes above.  There is plenty of disagreement, particularly over the merits of Redmond, keep ball v more direct, Stephens v Bednarek, leaving a man up when we defend a corner - the list goes on.  But the stereotypes are different.  There's a young lad who's views on the game I imagine line up pretty will with someone like @Turkish.  And there is a granddad who talks about Paine and Davies, but considers comparison between eras meaningless and so is rooted in the game today.  We've got a guy my age who seems to know all the stats - a sort of John Motson type and a woman who swears like a trooper and loves to see fisticuffs.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's risky to make generalisations and can often end up in a fairly pointless debate.

Oh and I guess, to bang this old drum again, it safe to say that although we have disagreements in the stadium we never end up finding the need to disrespect those we disagree with.  There's often banter, but we realise we have to sit next to each other every match, and besides we actually quite like each other and share the ups and downs of the club.  There is a truism that we feel able to insult people when we are on-line in a way that most of us wouldn't in real life.   

Sorry for a second post today having a go at people's behaviour on here.  I must be in that sort of mood.

PS forgot to say.  I don't see Broja as a poacher at all.  The word I would use is a finisher.  I think I understand the suggestion that he doesn't create goals for others in the way that someone like Lambert was good at.  But I just haven't seen enough of him to know.  But he does look like someone who will be an excellent finisher.  

One of the better posts ive read on here since i joined.

I totally agree with the insulting piece, people wouldn’t do that face to face, I’m likely guilty of it on here from time to time, but it is pretty stupid. 

I think part of the reason for this is it is harder to get feelings, emotions, and our proper points across, sometimes it is harder to do these things in writing.

[Saint Garrett]

5 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

One of the better posts ive read on here since i joined.

I totally agree with the insulting piece, people wouldn’t do that face to face, I’m likely guilty of it on here from time to time, but it is pretty stupid. 

I think part of the reason for this is it is harder to get feelings, emotions, and our proper points across, sometimes it is harder to do these things in writing.

Yes - and keyboard warriors are all over the internet, people feel like they can say something to someone behind a laptop screen or phone. It's not exclusive to this forum for sure!

[BERMUDASAINT]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Neither are you pal, but sadly you think you are. Such a shame you had to get insulting. I'll leave to you carry on trying to convince people Broja is nothing more than a poacher 🤣

You are a piece of work! U look at the likes  you get , always the same old grumpy asses, negative, bullies that constantly try to derail an intelligent discussion with your negative drivile. You and your bully gang try to shit on anything positive.

 

I read all post and I have my opinion of who understands football and who doesn't,  I have seen your gang wrong on so many occasions and derail a good discussion to petty insults consistently. Your input is rarely insightful but most certainly going to be insulting!

Come on give me shit, it is what your gang does best! 

Ps keep up the good work Twar and the like! Very intelligent postings, let me repeat it for the bully gang, VERY INTELLIGENT POST. 

 

 

[Charlie Wayman]

The conclusion from last Saturday's performance is that Armstrong is overly anxious and as a result over trying so causing himself more problems than he is solving.

Evidently he is brilliant on the ball, once in possession the ball seems to stick to his feet rather like Boufal and clearly defenders are scared of touching him in the box. Instead of shooting every time he nears goal he needs to improve his pacing and awareness of where his team mates and oppo defenders are and choose the right option.

He needs to understand that an assist is as valuable as a goal, 10 goals and 10 assists will please as much as trying to impress by notching the elusive 20 goals benchmark for top strikers.

[Turkish]

23 minutes ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

You are a piece of work! U look at the likes  you get , always the same old grumpy asses, negative, bullies that constantly try to derail an intelligent discussion with your negative drivile. You and your bully gang try to shit on anything positive.

 

I read all post and I have my opinion of who understands football and who doesn't,  I have seen your gang wrong on so many occasions and derail a good discussion to petty insults consistently. Your input is rarely insightful but most certainly going to be insulting!

Come on give me shit, it is what your gang does best! 

Ps keep up the good work Twar and the like! Very intelligent postings, let me repeat it for the bully gang, VERY INTELLIGENT POST. 

 

 

hi Always 🤣

[Teddeer]

5 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The conclusion from last Saturday's performance is that Armstrong is overly anxious and as a result over trying so causing himself more problems than he is solving.

Evidently he is brilliant on the ball, once in possession the ball seems to stick to his feet rather like Boufal and clearly defenders are scared of touching him in the box. Instead of shooting every time he nears goal he needs to improve his pacing and awareness of where his team mates and oppo defenders are and choose the right option.

He needs to understand that an assist is as valuable as a goal, 10 goals and 10 assists will please as much as trying to impress by notching the elusive 20 goals benchmark for top strikers.

Agree with this. He is a tricky customer so perhaps he should be more selective when deciding to shoot and might often be better holding the ball especially in the box as he may draw fouls and win penalties. I just think on occasions he is too eager to get a shot away - that's ok and I get that he wants to score goals but sometimes holding on to the ball causes more problems for the opposition. Making the right decisions is always subjective and never easy in the heat of the game.

[Minsk]

5 hours ago, The Left Back said:

We could be conflating several issues here.  Older v younger, pro-stats v anti-stats, progressive v traditionalist, player v non-player.

I'm 57.  I've been in the Kingsland stand since the stadium was built.  We've had a core of about 15 people round us that whole time, and have got to know them all pretty well. (during the dark times it's one of the things that keeps me renewing).  I say this because the cross-section of the group I sit with does not conform to the stereotypes above.  There is plenty of disagreement, particularly over the merits of Redmond, keep ball v more direct, Stephens v Bednarek, leaving a man up when we defend a corner - the list goes on.  But the stereotypes are different.  There's a young lad who's views on the game I imagine line up pretty will with someone like @Turkish.  And there is a granddad who talks about Paine and Davies, but considers comparison between eras meaningless and so is rooted in the game today.  We've got a guy my age who seems to know all the stats - a sort of John Motson type and a woman who swears like a trooper and loves to see fisticuffs.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's risky to make generalisations and can often end up in a fairly pointless debate.

Oh and I guess, to bang this old drum again, it safe to say that although we have disagreements in the stadium we never end up finding the need to disrespect those we disagree with.  There's often banter, but we realise we have to sit next to each other every match, and besides we actually quite like each other and share the ups and downs of the club.  There is a truism that we feel able to insult people when we are on-line in a way that most of us wouldn't in real life.   

Sorry for a second post today having a go at people's behaviour on here.  I must be in that sort of mood.

PS forgot to say.  I don't see Broja as a poacher at all.  The word I would use is a finisher.  I think I understand the suggestion that he doesn't create goals for others in the way that someone like Lambert was good at.  But I just haven't seen enough of him to know.  But he does look like someone who will be an excellent finisher.  

 

4 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

One of the better posts ive read on here since i joined.

I totally agree with the insulting piece, people wouldn’t do that face to face, I’m likely guilty of it on here from time to time, but it is pretty stupid. 

I think part of the reason for this is it is harder to get feelings, emotions, and our proper points across, sometimes it is harder to do these things in writing.

 

4 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Yes - and keyboard warriors are all over the internet, people feel like they can say something to someone behind a laptop screen or phone. It's not exclusive to this forum for sure!

 

4 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The conclusion from last Saturday's performance is that Armstrong is overly anxious and as a result over trying so causing himself more problems than he is solving.

Evidently he is brilliant on the ball, once in possession the ball seems to stick to his feet rather like Boufal and clearly defenders are scared of touching him in the box. Instead of shooting every time he nears goal he needs to improve his pacing and awareness of where his team mates and oppo defenders are and choose the right option.

He needs to understand that an assist is as valuable as a goal, 10 goals and 10 assists will please as much as trying to impress by notching the elusive 20 goals benchmark for top strikers.

 

3 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Agree with this. He is a tricky customer so perhaps he should be more selective when deciding to shoot and might often be better holding the ball especially in the box as he may draw fouls and win penalties. I just think on occasions he is too eager to get a shot away - that's ok and I get that he wants to score goals but sometimes holding on to the ball causes more problems for the opposition. Making the right decisions is always subjective and never easy in the heat of the game.

All very good posts which I completely agree with.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 hours ago, TWar said:

The Leeds goal was a goal scored from fairly close range as a result of being in the right position no?

No.

He raced half the length of the pitch in order to be in the right place and it wasn't from 'fairly close range' by any means of the words. Nothing of the poacher about it.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No.

He raced half the length of the pitch in order to be in the right place and it wasn't from 'fairly close range' by any means of the words. Nothing of the poacher about it.

Can a poacher not run half a pitch to get in the position to finish? Is a poacher rooted to the spot? I thought a fairly important part of a good poacher was getting in the right position?

Also, if that isn't "fairly close range" what is? It was like 10 yards out at most? 

Edited 2 November, 2021 by TWar

[Minsk]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

I didn't insult anyone pal, just pointing out that what he's saying is nothing new, it's been done before many times. Unfortunately he didn't seem to like this and responded telling me i was thick and a rather patronising comment about understanding books but not computers. I'm not even that old, i remember being in my teens and twenties though thinking i knew it all and all this brand new stuff i was discovering had already been done decades before. I used to think my parents and their age group didn't know anything and had never done any of the things i had, when you get to 35 you only leave the house to go to work. As you mature a bit you realise that isn't the case.  I guess that's what TWwar is going through now. 

Oh come on pal. You know full well that you used the phrase 'wet behind the ears spreadsheet jockey' in an insulting, derogatory, way. It was worded that way as a put down. TWar didn't then call you thick, he merely stated that you weren't a very, very, intelligent person. I know you know this as well. Like I said, reverting to type. The type Bermuda was referring to. No surprise that you and Dman were the first 2 to laugh at him. As I said previously, in your particular case, it is a shame when you revert back to this way of posting because you can be far better than that. I have seen many very good and reasoned posts from you. I'm sure you are the more polite person, who enjoys a bit of banter, in real life.

I think TLBs posts are rubbing off on me today. Probably because we are about the same age, which I feel is slightly older than you. 

[Minsk]

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

Can a poacher not run half a pitch to get in the position to finish? Is a poacher rooted to the spot? I thought a fairly important part of a good poacher was getting in the right position?

Also, if that isn't "fairly close range" what is? It was like 10 yards out at most? 

I've got to say that I wouldn't put Broja in the poacher category either. It's all about opinions though.

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Minsk said:

I've got to say that I wouldn't put Broja in the poacher category either. It's all about opinions though.

Yeah exactly. As I said in the other thread, I think poacher is a bit contentious a phrase. Allow me to rephrase as "player who excels at getting in the right position and finishing but not necessarily at creating the chances for himself or others atleast in the premier league, he has shown himself to be more well rounded internationally albeit against weaker opposition". I think that's more fair. 

Edited 2 November, 2021 by TWar

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Oh come on pal. You know full well that you used the phrase 'wet behind the ears spreadsheet jockey' in an insulting, derogatory, way. It was worded that way as a put down. TWar didn't then call you thick, he merely stated that you weren't a very, very, intelligent person. I know you know this as well. Like I said, reverting to type. The type Bermuda was referring to. No surprise that you and Dman were the first 2 to laugh at him. As I said previously, in your particular case, it is a shame when you revert back to this way of posting because you can be far better than that. I have seen many very good and reasoned posts from you. I'm sure you are the more polite person, who enjoys a bit of banter, in real life.

I think TLBs posts are rubbing off on me today. Probably because we are about the same age, which I feel is slightly older than you. 

that was after he started the insults saying he know plenty of old clever people and i'm not one of them, plus understand books but not computers. Dont like it dont dish it out.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

that was after he started the insults saying he know plenty of old clever people and i'm not one of them, plus understand books but not computers. Dont like it dont dish it out.

In fairness this bit was an analogy. Some older people pretend younger people don't know how books work because they don't get how computers work and they assume it works both ways.

This is analogous to you thinking I don't watch games so can't perform the "eye test" as they call it, as you don't/can't use stats and assume it works both ways. You quite obviously can use a computer, you are on an internet forum.

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, TWar said:

In fairness this bit was an analogy. Some older people pretend younger people don't know how books work because they don't get how computers work and they assume it works both ways.

This is analogous to you thinking I don't watch games so can't perform the "eye test" as they call it, as you don't/can't use stats and assume it works both ways. You quite obviously can use a computer, you are on an internet forum.

I can understand them i just dont think they are the be all and end all, they only tell part of the story. It's also more than an eye test, it's not just a case of watching the match, you need to understand whats going on as well. That's why some fans thought Steve De Ridder was brilliant for a while, because he ran around a lot and was fast, on the eye first impressions good but in reality he wasn't. 

[Whitey Grandad]

47 minutes ago, TWar said:

Can a poacher not run half a pitch to get in the position to finish? Is a poacher rooted to the spot? I thought a fairly important part of a good poacher was getting in the right position?

Also, if that isn't "fairly close range" what is? It was like 10 yards out at most? 

No, that is nothing like a poacher. That is a very good goal scorer. A poacher is someone who pounces on rebounds from the keeper or a post. A poacher would normally be found in the six yard box. 

I suggest that you do us all a favour and go and look at that goal again. If that's the goal of a poacher then almost evry goal ever scored is a poacher's goal.

 

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No, that is nothing like a poacher. That is a very good goal scorer. A poacher is someone who pounces on rebounds from the keeper or a post. A poacher would normally be found in the six yard box. 

I suggest that you do us all a favour and go and look at that goal again. If that's the goal of a poacher then almost evry goal ever scored is a poacher's goal.

 

Your definition of poacher is very very narrow. Basically just rebounds.

Not every ever, any which require beating a man, a shot from outside the box, a shot with defenders in the way, a run in behind which beat an offisde trap, a shot when marked wouldn't count. Most goals really. Brojas other goal doesn't really count I guess as there is a defender in the way, albeit a poor one who didn't get nearly tight enough to get a meaningful block in. You don't find many where someone is given just the keeper to beat in the box on a plate, and I think people would call that a poachers goal. Either way, it is getting towards just semantics at this point.

Edited 2 November, 2021 by TWar

[Ex Lion Tamer]

44 minutes ago, TWar said:

Your definition of poacher is very very narrow. Basically just rebounds.

Not every ever, any which require beating a man, a shot from outside the box, a shot with defenders in the way, a run in behind which beat an offisde trap, a shot when marked wouldn't count. Most goals really. Brojas other goal doesn't really count I guess as there is a defender in the way, albeit a poor one who didn't get nearly tight enough to get a meaningful block in. You don't find many where someone is given just the keeper to beat in the box on a plate, and I think people would call that a poachers goal. Either way, it is getting towards just semantics at this point.

Sorry TWar but a poacher is someone who relies on movement in the 6 yard box or at a stretch the penalty box. No running allowed.

What we could perhaps debate is whether any players are solely poachers by this definition, but that's definitely what a poacher is

https://sportmob.com/en/article/954118-top-goal-poachers-in-football-history

Edited 2 November, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Lord Duckhunter]

The  goal poacher has pretty much disappeared from the modern game, so it’s funny to watch the modern hipster stato twisting himself in mental knots to try and justify his erroneous opinion of Broja. You just wouldn’t get in a modern side if you played like Gerd  Muller. 

[Toadhall Saint]

Gary lineaker, sniffer Clark were poachers or another name that has been used fox in the box 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

6 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Gary lineaker, sniffer Clark were poachers or another name that has been used fox in the box 

The thing is, I can remember Lineker breaking the offside trap and running through on goals loads of times. He definitely got his share of tap ins though

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The  goal poacher has pretty much disappeared from the modern game, so it’s funny to watch the modern hipster stato twisting himself in mental knots to try and justify his erroneous opinion of Broja. You just wouldn’t get in a modern side if you played like Gerd  Muller. 

Charlie Austin???

[stknowle]

10 hours ago, The Left Back said:

We could be conflating several issues here.  Older v younger, pro-stats v anti-stats, progressive v traditionalist, player v non-player.

I'm 57.  I've been in the Kingsland stand since the stadium was built.  We've had a core of about 15 people round us that whole time, and have got to know them all pretty well. (during the dark times it's one of the things that keeps me renewing).  I say this because the cross-section of the group I sit with does not conform to the stereotypes above.  There is plenty of disagreement, particularly over the merits of Redmond, keep ball v more direct, Stephens v Bednarek, leaving a man up when we defend a corner - the list goes on.  But the stereotypes are different.  There's a young lad who's views on the game I imagine line up pretty will with someone like @Turkish.  And there is a granddad who talks about Paine and Davies, but considers comparison between eras meaningless and so is rooted in the game today.  We've got a guy my age who seems to know all the stats - a sort of John Motson type and a woman who swears like a trooper and loves to see fisticuffs.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's risky to make generalisations and can often end up in a fairly pointless debate.

Oh and I guess, to bang this old drum again, it safe to say that although we have disagreements in the stadium we never end up finding the need to disrespect those we disagree with.  There's often banter, but we realise we have to sit next to each other every match, and besides we actually quite like each other and share the ups and downs of the club.  There is a truism that we feel able to insult people when we are on-line in a way that most of us wouldn't in real life.   

Sorry for a second post today having a go at people's behaviour on here.  I must be in that sort of mood.

PS forgot to say.  I don't see Broja as a poacher at all.  The word I would use is a finisher.  I think I understand the suggestion that he doesn't create goals for others in the way that someone like Lambert was good at.  But I just haven't seen enough of him to know.  But he does look like someone who will be an excellent finisher.  

Good post. Just on Broja creating goals, it was him that set up Redmond for his astounding miss against Burnley so, whilst we are talking about a limited sample size of games, he clearly has that in his locker. Based on the same limited sample size he sure as hell ain't no poacher.

Edited 2 November, 2021 by stknowle

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

The thing is, I can remember Lineker breaking the offside trap and running through on goals loads of times. He definitely got his share of tap ins though

There’s always the exception to the rule 😉

[Lord Duckhunter]

One thing for certain is Armstrong needs to start knocking one or two of these chances in. Adams hasn’t got a great record, we can’t afford 2 strikers that misfire so often.  

[Ex Lion Tamer]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The  goal poacher has pretty much disappeared from the modern game, so it’s funny to watch the modern hipster stato twisting himself in mental knots to try and justify his erroneous opinion of Broja. You just wouldn’t get in a modern side if you played like Gerd  Muller. 

Javier Hernandez is still playing. But they're definitely rarer.

Is Ronaldo a poacher now? He doesn't move much

[Lord Duckhunter]

19 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

 

Is Ronaldo a poacher now? He doesn't move much

Nah, too much creativity.  A poacher is a bloke who can do fuck all but put the ball in the net. Half of them don’t even look like footballers, look at Mick Quinn. Gerd Muller, only came alive when the ball was around the 6 yard box, little fat bloke waddling about , then, bang, in the net. 
 

Ronaldo’s an interesting case study. I always put Messi & Maradona above him, but he’s definitely made me think again with his restyled game. His finishing is exceptional and his very cleverly redefined himself. For all his showmanship Bestie was a great finisher, shame the grog got him otherwise he could have done what Ronaldo is doing now. 

Edited 2 November, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Billy the Kidd]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Nah, too much creativity.  A poacher is a bloke who can do fuck all but put the ball in the net. Half of them don’t even look like footballers, look at Mick Quinn. Gerd Muller, only came alive when the ball was around the 6 yard box, little fat bloke waddling about , then, bang, in the net. 
 

Ronaldo’s an interesting case study. I always put Messi & Maradona above him, but he’s definitely made me think again with his restyled game. His finishing is exceptional and his very cleverly redefined himself. For all his showmanship Bestie was a great finisher, shame the grog got him otherwise he could have done what Ronaldo is doing now. 

Fuck me what a goal he just got then…

[Ex Lion Tamer]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Ronaldo’s an interesting case study. I always put Messi & Maradona above him, but he’s definitely made me think again with his restyled game. His finishing is exceptional and his very cleverly redefined himself. For all his showmanship Bestie was a great finisher, shame the grog got him otherwise he could have done what Ronaldo is doing now. 

I always liked that he was good at heading. Not just a typical winger - a proper all round player

[SuperSAINT]

 

[saintscottofthenortham]

On 01/11/2021 at 19:48, TWar said:

True, but he is also low for chances created. Broja is quality but he's a bit of a poacher. I could see a world where he plays well with Adams though as said previously. 

I've seen nothing of Broja to even remotely put him in the Poacher bracket. Makes something of literally nothing. Che on the other hand, bar his worldy at Watford, I think all his goals epitomise that of a Poacher in the sense that his goals come from chances falling to him in the right position in and around the six yard box (Stamford Bridge).

Edited 3 November, 2021 by saintscottofthenortham

[Sheaf Saint]

18 minutes ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

I've seen nothing of Broja to even remotely put him in the Poacher bracket. Makes something of literally nothing. Che on the other hand, bar his worldy at Watford, I think all his goals epitomise that of a Poacher in the sense that his goals come from chances falling to him in the right position in and around the six yard box (Stamford Bridge).

And his worldy against Man City, and his thunderbolt against Sheff Utd.

Aside from those, I agree 😉

[Piran]

If you want the definitive example of a poacher, one of them used to play for Saints - Ted MacDougall! Ted was amazing, there would be a melee in a crowded penalty box, a goal would be scored for Saints, and the man coming out with his arm raised would be Ted. Outside of the box, he struggled to trap a bag of cement, and his passing often resembled a rugby player kicking for touch, but in the box he was transformed!

[CAH61]

14 minutes ago, Piran said:

If you want the definitive example of a poacher, one of them used to play for Saints - Ted MacDougall! Ted was amazing, there would be a melee in a crowded penalty box, a goal would be scored for Saints, and the man coming out with his arm raised would be Ted. Outside of the box, he struggled to trap a bag of cement, and his passing often resembled a rugby player kicking for touch, but in the box he was transformed!

He smashed the windows of the block of flats in Archers Road a few times as well IIRC.

[CAH61]

I could see AA scoring 15 a season once he recalibrates his shooting sights.

[Saint Garrett]

Poacher is Charlie Austin.  Literally offers nothing outside of the 6 yard box. And even that he didn't really do a great job at for us.

Broja on the other hand, creates something out of nothing, carries the ball up the pitch, and gets well involved in general play. 

[Billy the Kidd]

24 minutes ago, CAH61 said:

I could see AA scoring 15 a season once he recalibrates his shooting sights.

Yeah agree with this, I certainly see him as a more direct goal threat than Che, and he got 9 in the league I believe last season.

I dont gamble, but may stick 50p on him getting a goal on Friday…

[verlaine1979]

Didn't Broja play as a lone striker for both his starts? You wouldn't expect the expected assists to be as high compared to two strikers who have generally always started as a pair.

[Matthew Le God]

38 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Didn't Broja play as a lone striker for both his starts?

No, he played in a strike pairing pair with Redmond in the usual 442/4222 formation.

[verlaine1979]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

No, he played in a strike pairing pair with Redmond in the usual 442/4222 formation.

When Redmond players as a striker, he doesn't play as a striker. Certainly not the way Adams and Armstrong play together.

[Minsk]

9 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

When Redmond players as a striker, he doesn't play as a striker. Certainly not the way Adams and Armstrong play together.

I agree. It was said that the formation was 4222 but, to me, in reality it looked far more like a 4231 (albeit somewhat disjointed). So maybe a 42211? Redmond was certainly playing slightly behind and around Broja; not alongside him as a partner.

[egg]

14 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

When Redmond players as a striker, he doesn't play as a striker. Certainly not the way Adams and Armstrong play together.

It reminds me of the old fashioned little and big man up front with one staying long and the other coming short. It's definitely a different approach to how Adams and Armstrong play together though. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Playing with Redmond as a partner, must be like playing as a lone striker. 

[verlaine1979]

Also, whatever name you put to Broja's two league goals for us, the quality of the finishes renders pretty much all quibbling moot. He's more composed, more accurate, and makes a better connection with the ball than anyone else we've got.

Couple that with the fact that he looks good in the air and is almost on par with Tino running with the ball into space, and I'd say that's pretty much the definition of a complete striker. If he also turns out to be great at hold up and creative interplay, then Chelsea are going to have a star on their hands.

Edited 3 November, 2021 by verlaine1979

[egg]

4 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Also, whatever name you put to Broja's two league goals for us, the quality of the finishes renders pretty much all quibbling moot. He's more composed, more accurate, and makes a better connection with the ball than anyone else we've got.

Couple that with the fact that he looks good in the air and is almost on par with Tino running with the ball into space, and I'd say that's pretty much the definition of a complete striker. If he also turns out to also be great at hold up and creative interplay, then Chelsea are going to have a star on their hands.

Nail. Head. 

[Chez]

22 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

A poacher is a bloke who can do fuck all but put the ball in the net. Half of them don’t even look like footballers, look at Mick Quinn. Gerd Muller, only came alive when the ball was around the 6 yard box, little fat bloke waddling about , then, bang, in the net. 

Saints wise, Colin Clarke immediately sprung to mind, but not even sure he came alive. Definitely a fat bloke waddling about.

The `do fuck all but put the ball in the back of the net' description  made me think of Robbie Fowler for some reason, can't recall if he had an all round game or not, but the king of all poachers in the modern game has to have been Filippo Inzaghi.