Away fans

[JCBSaint]

So Leicester put away fans in corner … where do we put ours?? 

[Crab Lungs]

We’ll make a bullshit excuse as to why it can’t be done and hope that everyone believes it.

[Turkish]

Wherever they are happiest, we should welcome our guests with open arms 

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, JCBSaint said:

So Leicester put away fans in corner … where do we put ours?? 

Behind the goal, in a stand where we can easily adjust the segregation depending on ticket sales, like they do in around 90% of grounds I’ve been to.

[AlexLaw76]

9 hours ago, JCBSaint said:

So Leicester put away fans in corner … where do we put ours?? 

why does it matter?

[SotonianWill]

Away fans should be put where the itchen north is, st mary’s is too much of a nice away day. it’s nice for the players and nice for the fans. 

they already segregate us from our own fans in the IN why not away fans? how many blocks do away fans take up?

[Lord Duckhunter]

It’s pretty obvious what we should do. Safe standing in the chapel, & move the family section to one of the Kingsland corners. Make the rest of the Northam a Noddy end, but charge a premium. Simple. 

[bangkoksaint]

1 hour ago, SotonianWill said:

Away fans should be put where the itchen north is, st mary’s is too much of a nice away day. it’s nice for the players and nice for the fans. 

they already segregate us from our own fans in the IN why not away fans? how many blocks do away fans take up?

In fairness it’s mainly a ‘nice away day’ for the opposition because of our shockingly poor players and inept management.

[SotonianWill]

13 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

In fairness it’s mainly a ‘nice away day’ for the opposition because of our shockingly poor players and inept management.

yes a win makes it 10x better but other things like getting majority of the area behind the goal, having good pubs and getting nicer treatment by authorities definitely helps. 

[64saint]

7 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

why does it matter?

Leicester stadium is an identical design to St Mary's. I'm guessing that's the point the op was making.  Coach parking for away fans always seem the sticking point with the police but I'm sure there's loads of solutions if the club looked a bit closer.

Edited 2 May, 2023 by 64saint

[alehouseboys]

Simple, lose the aways in either the Kingsland/Northam or Kingsland/Chapel corner (and out of sight of the TV cameras) and just keep the fuckers in for half hour after the game like the good ol’ days.

Alternatively, as Lord Ducky says.

Edited 2 May, 2023 by alehouseboys
Typo

[Lee On Solent Saint]

25 minutes ago, 64saint said:

Leicester stadium is an identical design to St Mary's. I'm guessing that's the point the op was making.  Coach parking for away fans always seem the sticking point with the police but I'm sure there's loads of solutions if the club looked a bit closer.

I don't particularly pay much attention to where the coaches are, how many are there? I know it's dependent on opposition, but do many away fans get a coach these days?

[AlexLaw76]

what is the end game of moving the fans a few blocks?

[Osvaldorama]

7 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s pretty obvious what we should do. Safe standing in the chapel, & move the family section to one of the Kingsland corners. Make the rest of the Northam a Noddy end, but charge a premium. Simple. 

100% agree with this. The club needs to do something drastic in my opinion.

 

Need to make St Mary’s loud, proud & fun again instead of Soulless FC. 

 

 

[64saint]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I don't particularly pay much attention to where the coaches are, how many are there? I know it's dependent on opposition, but do many away fans get a coach these days?

Britannia road , all parked up, twenty, thirty coaches maybe. Handy for Itchen Northam corner for away fans coming out so police can shut the car park to home fans , I guess the police will over rule the club on any decisions where away fans are located. 

Edited 2 May, 2023 by 64saint

[SotonianWill]

17 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what is the end game of moving the fans a few blocks?

Better atmosphere. Can liken it to cup games when the whole away team have the northam. the IN always gets outsung. The club could have that every game in our favour if they wanted.

[AlexLaw76]

40 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

Better atmosphere. Can liken it to cup games when the whole away team have the northam. the IN always gets outsung. The club could have that every game in our favour if they wanted.

why cant the singing home fans have a whole end...like the Chapel?

[SotonianWill]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

why cant the singing home fans have a whole end...like the Chapel?

But thats known to be a family stand and you aren't allowed to stand up. 

[AlexLaw76]

not allowed to stand up anywhere.

What will happen if 1000 of the northam's finest just bought a ST in/around the family stand? 

Never see that proposed on here.

[EssEffCee]

We don't have enough supporters willing to sing to have a proper home end.

Where the away fans are whilst annoying isn't the main cause of poor atmosphere at the ground imo. It's only a huge problem for FA Cup games and that's also on the club inexplicably offering more tickets than we have to. 

The idea that moving away fans to a corner or trying to create a home end is going to turn the ground into some sort of bear pit is for the birds. 

[Give it to Ron]

18 hours ago, 64saint said:

Britannia road , all parked up, twenty, thirty coaches maybe. Handy for Itchen Northam corner for away fans coming out so police can shut the car park to home fans , I guess the police will over rule the club on any decisions where away fans are located. 

Why is that an issue on many away grounds we have to walk a lot further to parked coaches. Fulham and Chelsea 2 examples

[Saint Fan CaM]

In terms of a club reset back in the Championship this deserves serious consideration. One of the reasons I’ve not been inclined to keep hold of my ST has been the awful atmosphere at SMS and unregulated away fans in home areas. Part of the issue with the atmosphere is the placement of the away fans - it’s just too easy for them to create their own intimidating atmosphere, sometimes making SMS feel like an away day!

There are many possible solutions, however due to Police restrictions (apparently) it has to include the Northam end due to coach travel. The most sensible option then is to put them in the Kingsland/Northam corner or Itchen/Northam corner. I suspect ultimately though that the club just don’t give a monkeys toss as long as they’re getting the gate receipts.

[64saint]

5 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

Why is that an issue on many away grounds we have to walk a lot further to parked coaches. Fulham and Chelsea 2 examples

Good question but probably only Mr Plod could answer that.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, EssEffCee said:

We don't have enough supporters willing to sing to have a proper home end.

Where the away fans are whilst annoying isn't the main cause of poor atmosphere at the ground imo. It's only a huge problem for FA Cup games and that's also on the club inexplicably offering more tickets than we have to. 

The idea that moving away fans to a corner or trying to create a home end is going to turn the ground into some sort of bear pit is for the birds. 

Then please explain why so many away teams score so many goals in front of their own fans in the second half, which is usually when they are playing towards them.

[Appy]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Then please explain why so many away teams score so many goals in front of their own fans in the second half, which is usually when they are playing towards them.

Because we’re shit

[Lord Duckhunter]

Interesting that Bournemouth have released a statement & written to their supporters regarding their behaviour at away games, specifically mention the “flare” at our game.
 

They’ve been told they now have to show ID and will only be allowed in if their in possession of a ticket purchased in their name. They claim checks will be in place and they need to arrive early. They’ve also be told their account will be frozen & they won’t be able to buy anymore tickets if somebody is found with a ticket in a different name. Not sure how it’ll work in practise and probably just an idle threat, but away fans behaviour is obviously becoming an issue. Probably to do with identifying who is in each seat for cctv as they’ve also been told they must sit in allocated seat (although I can’t see how they enforce that). Eventually, they’ll probably be able to print names on tickets easily, so I imagine all games will end up like this. 

Edited 12 May, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[Turkish]

On 02/05/2023 at 14:21, AlexLaw76 said:

what is the end game of moving the fans a few blocks?

We could put them in the corner and turn the northam into a kop end?

[Dman]

17 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Interesting that Bournemouth have released a statement & written to their supporters regarding their behaviour at away games, specifically mention the “flare” at our game.
 

They’ve been told they now have to show ID and will only be allowed in if their in possession of a ticket purchased in their name. They claim checks will be in place and they need to arrive early. They’ve also be told their account will be frozen & they won’t be able to buy anymore tickets if somebody is found with a ticket in a different name. Not sure how it’ll work in practise and probably just an idle threat, but away fans behaviour is obviously becoming an issue. Probably to do with identifying who is in each seat for cctv as they’ve also been told they must sit in allocated seat (although I can’t see how they enforce that). Eventually, they’ll probably be able to print names on tickets easily, so I imagine all games will end up like this. 

Surely that’s really, really easy…

 

It’s all a threat and won’t work in practice. The home clubs stewards man the doors, so unless they have some kind of collection point on the day (like England fans have to), then I don’t see how any of it is enforceable. 

Edited 12 May, 2023 by Dman

[stevegrant]

On 02/05/2023 at 13:50, 64saint said:

Leicester stadium is an identical design to St Mary's. I'm guessing that's the point the op was making.  Coach parking for away fans always seem the sticking point with the police but I'm sure there's loads of solutions if the club looked a bit closer.

But it's not an identical design at all. Similar number of seats and built by the same company, certainly, but anyone who has been in the away end at Leicester will not recognise the layout there as being anything we have in place at St Mary's. Their stadium was built with the away section in the corner factored in from the start. St Mary's evidently was not, given where the police control room is located.

The layout of the stadium under the stands making it nigh-on impossible to do what people seem to think is a piece of piss and just move them round to take up the corner blocks. You have the ticket office plus other offices and rooms in that corner of the stadium, with no turnstiles able to service a segregated corner. Perhaps the only corner where it might be manageable would be the Northam/Kingsland corner, but then you have access issues because that corner is where a large portion of home fans arrive at the ground, and away fans would naturally have to cross paths with home fans to get back to coaches parked in Britannia Road.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, stevegrant said:

But it's not an identical design at all. Similar number of seats and built by the same company, certainly, but anyone who has been in the away end at Leicester will not recognise the layout there as being anything we have in place at St Mary's. Their stadium was built with the away section in the corner factored in from the start. St Mary's evidently was not, given where the police control room is located.

The layout of the stadium under the stands making it nigh-on impossible to do what people seem to think is a piece of piss and just move them round to take up the corner blocks. You have the ticket office plus other offices and rooms in that corner of the stadium, with no turnstiles able to service a segregated corner. Perhaps the only corner where it might be manageable would be the Northam/Kingsland corner, but then you have access issues because that corner is where a large portion of home fans arrive at the ground, and away fans would naturally have to cross paths with home fans to get back to coaches parked in Britannia Road.

It’s to do with the layout of the concourses apparently although I can’t believe it would be difficult to devise some sort of partitioning.

[stevegrant]

58 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It’s to do with the layout of the concourses apparently although I can’t believe it would be difficult to devise some sort of partitioning.

It equates to the same problem. The existing concourses can be partitioned to an extent - as seen in the Northam, that can be increased and decreased where necessary by using the metal shutters - but in all four corners of the stadium there is no public way of people moving between concourses, there's literally just a small door between each. Each stand is separated by walls of concrete, and obviously these are massive supporting structures for the entire building, you can't just knock them down.

[Give it to Ron]

17 hours ago, stevegrant said:

It equates to the same problem. The existing concourses can be partitioned to an extent - as seen in the Northam, that can be increased and decreased where necessary by using the metal shutters - but in all four corners of the stadium there is no public way of people moving between concourses, there's literally just a small door between each. Each stand is separated by walls of concrete, and obviously these are massive supporting structures for the entire building, you can't just knock them down.

But where is the issue here at every game fans cross each other  on the bridge? Often away fans walk pass the Kingsland turnstiles.

Fans pass each other in Britannia Rd. 

You go to away games Steve at Fulham we even shared the same bars and turnstiles this year

[spyinthesky]

On 02/05/2023 at 00:08, Turkish said:

Wherever they are happiest, we should welcome our guests with open arms 

Perhaps away fans could be twinned with a home supporter and we could sit and learn how life is in the dark satanic mills oop north, share our cups of bovril and make friends for life,

[Lighthouse]

36 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

But where is the issue here at every game fans cross each other on the bridge? Often away fans walk pass the Kingsland turnstiles.

Fans pass each other in Britannia Rd. 

You go to away games Steve at Fulham we even shared the same bars and turnstiles this year

Am I understanding this right, you're saying it'd be a good idea to have mixed fans in the same concourse? That's quite unequivocally a bad idea and there's no way it'll get approved by the club or the Police, regardless of what goes on at Fulham.

[wadesmith]

I don’t mind the current set up.It’s pretty unique. The real problems are the team.This debate rarely came up during the Strachan/Poch/Koeman era. It’s a bit like ‘I’m sick of modern football’ debate. This also always seem to bubble up when we’re crap on the pitch.

[Whitey Grandad]

38 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Am I understanding this right, you're saying it'd be a good idea to have mixed fans in the same concourse? That's quite unequivocally a bad idea and there's no way it'll get approved by the club or the Police, regardless of what goes on at Fulham.

Some of us are old enough to remember when there was no segregation. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Give it to Ron said:

But where is the issue here at every game fans cross each other  on the bridge? Often away fans walk pass the Kingsland turnstiles.

Fans pass each other in Britannia Rd. 

You go to away games Steve at Fulham we even shared the same bars and turnstiles this year

The latest arrangements with the north car park closed off we’re introduced after the perceived problems during the game against Man United last season (?).

[Wurzel]

19 hours ago, stevegrant said:

But it's not an identical design at all. Similar number of seats and built by the same company, certainly, but anyone who has been in the away end at Leicester will not recognise the layout there as being anything we have in place at St Mary's. Their stadium was built with the away section in the corner factored in from the start. St Mary's evidently was not, given where the police control room is located.

The layout of the stadium under the stands making it nigh-on impossible to do what people seem to think is a piece of piss and just move them round to take up the corner blocks. You have the ticket office plus other offices and rooms in that corner of the stadium, with no turnstiles able to service a segregated corner. Perhaps the only corner where it might be manageable would be the Northam/Kingsland corner, but then you have access issues because that corner is where a large portion of home fans arrive at the ground, and away fans would naturally have to cross paths with home fans to get back to coaches parked in Britannia Road.

I get the turnstile/concourse argument but not the Britannia Rd one. If they used Kingsland /Chapel corner coaches could drop off and wait in Melbourne St which would actually be easier to segregate than Britannia Rd as home fans could stick to the parallel Marine Parade if heading towards Chapel/Ocean Vilage/Itchen Bridge after the game.  And with quality and abundance of CCTV today there's no reason the away end needs to be below the security/surveilance suite. Can't remember the concourse layout in that corner though, groundsman's "tunnel" might be the problem there.

[Pamplemousse]

If the councourses can't be separated, surely just have 1500 in the Northam corner and 1500 in the Itchen North? 

Next season most teams will bring 1500 maximum anyway so hopefully won't be an issue. Just the likes of QPR and Millwall and the teams who go down with us that'll probably take 3000, maybe some of the other southern teams.

[tunit]

This is less of an issue than the actual football but going down gives the club a big opportunity to finally sort the fan arrangements out with lower supporter numbers. My suggestion would be having away fans in the Kingsland north and after the game making the footbridge away fans only. This is the most direct route to the station and the away coaches can be parked on Northam Road. It doesn't matter where the police control room is because now we have HD CCTV everywhere. They also need to introduce safe standing to the entire Northam (and the new away end in the Kingsland north.) Derby used to have the same issue as us (I remember the atmosphere there being terrible), but they moved away fans and gave the entire south stand behind the goal home only.

Next best as mentioned above would be having away fans in Kingsland south and having Melbourne Street away fans only. Can't have away fans in the itchen because of the boxes.

Edited 13 May, 2023 by tunit
Added context

[Give it to Ron]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Am I understanding this right, you're saying it'd be a good idea to have mixed fans in the same concourse? That's quite unequivocally a bad idea and there's no way it'll get approved by the club or the Police, regardless of what goes on at Fulham.

No your not

[SaintsLoyal]

St Marys designed to have away fans in the northam and maybe if tickets were more than £30, they still would be in the corner.

Certainly going to see corner fans next season.

Police and safety council wont allow any movement, which makes sense.

Never an issue unless we are not winning games like recent seasons.

 

 

 

 

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

No your not

So what are you saying? Steve’s point about the partitioning of the concourses is perfectly valid, there’s no feasible way of just moving them up into a corner without having to structurally alter the stadium.

[AlexLaw76]

Why not have a 'home end' opposite the aways in the Chapel?

Or is that too far for 'banter'?

[stevegrant]

On 13/05/2023 at 10:12, Wurzel said:

I get the turnstile/concourse argument but not the Britannia Rd one. If they used Kingsland /Chapel corner coaches could drop off and wait in Melbourne St which would actually be easier to segregate than Britannia Rd as home fans could stick to the parallel Marine Parade if heading towards Chapel/Ocean Vilage/Itchen Bridge after the game.  And with quality and abundance of CCTV today there's no reason the away end needs to be below the security/surveilance suite. Can't remember the concourse layout in that corner though, groundsman's "tunnel" might be the problem there.

That's perhaps the only corner that could work, but it still wouldn't be a proper "corner" like at Leicester. There is, I think, a vertical fence that starts above that entrance tunnel (which is predominantly for emergency vehicles) which would be a natural segregation point, which would basically mean the away section would be the blocks from that fence around to some point along the Kingsland touchline.

I still think it'll never happen because the police would rather not create potential ambush points, which that industrial estate probably is, and Britannia Road allows much quicker exit for the coaches.

On 13/05/2023 at 10:21, Pamplemousse said:

If the councourses can't be separated, surely just have 1500 in the Northam corner and 1500 in the Itchen North? 

Next season most teams will bring 1500 maximum anyway so hopefully won't be an issue. Just the likes of QPR and Millwall and the teams who go down with us that'll probably take 3000, maybe some of the other southern teams.

The Itchen North concourse currently caters for blocks 1-6 (maybe 7 too?), and is - in my opinion - far too small to cater comfortably for that number anyway. It has only one set of turnstiles. As a result, it cannot be segregated. There's also precisely zero chance that they would allow an away section right next to or in front of corporate hospitality.

 

On 13/05/2023 at 15:00, AlexLaw76 said:

Why not have a 'home end' opposite the aways in the Chapel?

Or is that too far for 'banter'?

People tried that when we first moved to St Mary's in 2001. The problem was that there was no real organised movement to ensure that the most vocal element went to one specific place, so some went either side of the away section in the Northam and Itchen North, and some initially went to the Chapel, but presumably saw the way the wind was blowing and ended up moving to the Northam.

Probably fair to assume there are some that just want to be close to the away fans, so you can count those people out already. To be honest, I think a lot of people have been where they are for years now and just don't want to up sticks and move.

[Lord Duckhunter]

10 minutes ago, stevegrant said:

 

 

People tried that when we first moved to St Mary's in 2001. The problem was that there was no real organised movement to ensure that the most vocal element went to one specific place, so some went either side of the away section in the Northam and Itchen North, and some initially went to the Chapel, but presumably saw the way the wind was blowing and ended up moving to the Northam.

Probably fair to assume there are some that just want to be close to the away fans, so you can count those people out already. To be honest, I think a lot of people have been where they are for years now and just don't want to up sticks and move.

When safe standing comes in, they should put it in the chapel and then enforce seating everywhere else. 

[SotonianWill]

On 13/05/2023 at 15:00, AlexLaw76 said:

Why not have a 'home end' opposite the aways in the Chapel?

Or is that too far for 'banter'?

Anything to get rid of football banter. The Itchen North is shite now, few of us singing about Southampton, then most of it is the same shit every week. You can probably guess the chants as it is the same every game everywhere in england.

[100%Red&White]

I agree, make the Chapel safe-standing. I could be wrong but believe some safe-standing needs to be provided for visiting supporters, if so, just make it a small area in front of the Police Box in the corner seating.

But the club would have to entice home fans to move, they'd need to make the much-maligned stand far more attractive to a younger fan. Start by renaming it and make it easier to get a pint at halftime!

[saintwbu]

Not sure why police control rooms and safety make a difference to where the away fans sit, because clearly they pay fuck all attention to the away end as it is. Can’t keep your bottle lid on in the Itchen but you can bring whatever you want into the away end. 

[100%Red&White]

3 hours ago, saintwbu said:

Not sure why police control rooms and safety make a difference to where the away fans sit, because clearly they pay fuck all attention to the away end as it is. Can’t keep your bottle lid on in the Itchen but you can bring whatever you want into the away end. 

I only mentioned the Police Box because that's where visiting fans already are, and they ain't moving them.

Safe-standing was mooted as being only in the Northam for both home and aways but if they did stick in the Chapel for home fans then the only realistic area they could provide rail seating for aways is in that corner so not to obstruct the view of those sitting down either side of them. But very unlikely.