Should we have kept Tall Paul?

[washsaint]

Based on Still's preferred style (wingers whipping crosses in allegedly) would we have been better to keep Tall Paul?  Both Downs and Stewart are an utter, utter waste of space.

At least with him we had a player who could act as a focal point (not saying he was great) and definitely an upgrade on both our 2 useless lumps we have.

In our least CHampionship season we had Adams acting as a focal point and bringing Armstrong (and others) into play.  NOw we have no-one.

[Saint_clark]

Yes, I said it all last season and in the summer. You only have to look at McBurnie and Moore in this league to realise you aren't needing someone to be an all round forward to score goals, just be utterly effective at one or two things. Christ, remember Rasiak banging goals in for us? He was terrible on the ball.

[AlexLaw76]

what we should be doing is playing in a way that gets the most out of what we have, given the manager is a supposed master tactician and does not have a single style of play (utter bollox BTW)

[Harry_SFC]

Technically limited but would easily get double figures in this league. Can't see any of our other strikers doing that currently. 

[Lighthouse]

15 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Yes, I said it all last season and in the summer. You only have to look at McBurnie and Moore in this league to realise you aren't needing someone to be an all round forward to score goals, just be utterly effective at one or two things. Christ, remember Rasiak banging goals in for us? He was terrible on the ball.

We must be remembering a different Rasiak, the one I watched was decent enough technically and an excellent finisher, just slow and lazy.

Onuachu on the other hand is a donkey in English football, who had nothing going for him other than height. No we shouldn’t have kept him, we should be playing in a way which suits the massive amount of Championship fire power we have in the squad.

[washsaint]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

We must be remembering a different Rasiak, the one I watched was decent enough technically and an excellent finisher, just slow and lazy.

Onuachu on the other hand is a donkey in English football, who had nothing going for him other than height. No we shouldn’t have kept him, we should be playing in a way which suits the massive amount of Championship fire power we have in the squad.

Not sure you can say this....he was still our top scorer in the Prem.  WHat 'massive amount of CHampionship firepower' do we have?  Surely you cannot be referring to Downs, Stewart or Archer?  All as lightweight as they come with no heart.
 

[Mboto Gorge]

18 minutes ago, washsaint said:

Not sure you can say this....he was still our top scorer in the Prem.  WHat 'massive amount of CHampionship firepower' do we have?  Surely you cannot be referring to Downs, Stewart or Archer?  All as lightweight as they come with no heart.
 

“No heart “ and “lightweight” seem to be pre-requisites for SR when scouting players to sign. Absolute joke

Edited Sunday at 16:40 by Mboto Gorge

[lambtiss]

16 minutes ago, Mboto Gorge said:

“No heart “ and “lightweight” seem to be pre-requisites for SR when scouting players to sign. Absolute joke

Can I add to that list, no experience in the league that they will be playing in

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Yes, I said it all last season and in the summer. You only have to look at McBurnie and Moore in this league to realise you aren't needing someone to be an all round forward to score goals, just be utterly effective at one or two things. Christ, remember Rasiak banging goals in for us? He was terrible on the ball.

You must be joking? McBurnie and Moore are completely different to Onachu, they are physical and put themselves around, Onachu couldn't even last 30 minutes without blowing out of his ass

[trousers]

We need another player in the mould of Rickie Lambert, Pelle or Ings. Simple as that. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

A definite no. 

Further, it was a poor signing. As were Stewart, Archer, Downs, AA (for the PL and centrally), BBD.

The common denominator is that SR's recruitment model is not only broken, but shows an utter lack of knowledge in what's required to build a successful squad.

[OttawaSaint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what we should be doing is playing in a way that gets the most out of what we have, given the manager is a supposed master tactician and does not have a single style of play (utter bollox BTW)

Every manager we've had in the last 5 years has fallen into this trap. Trying to be so fucking clever. We're not Real, City, or Liverpool. You've got to set the formation and tactics based on what we have. 

Fucking square pegs and all that.

Edited Sunday at 17:22 by OttawaSaint

[Osvaldorama]

Yeah. He would have been good at this level.  
Our only striker that could do anything. 
 

He has 3 goals already in a league that is arguably not much different in quality. Our strikers can only dream of that many  

Strange decision making all around, as usual. 

Edited Sunday at 17:50 by Osvaldorama

[egg]

He's a carthorse, but it's mind-blowing that we've spent good money replacing him with the inferior Downs. If the choice was either, it'd be Onuachu, but the correct answer is to play tactics to suit the players we've got. 

[chiknsmack]

12 hours ago, washsaint said:

Based on Still's preferred style (wingers whipping crosses in allegedly)

Still doesn't have a preferred style, his preferred strategy is "whatever wins". At Reims it was Ralph-style counterpress and playing long balls in behind after a turnover to send a pacey striker (Balogun) through one-on-one with the keeper. At Lens it was a 4-2-5 (with the keeper as part of the four) when being pressed, with the front five a long way up the pitch and looking to drop into the massive space between them and the holding midfielders to pick up the ball. Or a 3-2-5 when further up the pitch (with the keeper staying at home). The wingers pushed right up to pin the fullbacks, which meant if Plan A (AMs dropping back from the front five into central pockets to pick up the ball from the back five) wasn't working, Plan B was the AMs dropping back and wide where the defenders and holding mids couldn't follow them and fullbacks couldn't go to them for fear of leaving their man (the wingers) free.

Even on the occasions where "wingers whipping in crosses" has been a thing, it's been from Plan B and the crosses have generally been low crosses after an AM has drifted wide and worked an overload on the opposition fullback. It hasn't been "float one to the back post and let the big man go get it" type crossing.

Archer, Downs, and Armstrong are all well-suited to the Reims plan, but that plan overall suits an underdog better than one of the (allegedly) best teams in the league. You could try to force that plan by consistently punting the ball long to the opposition (forcing them to have most of the possession and try to play though you) and then pressing the fuck out of them, but at this level and against us they're more likely to just punt the ball back and maybe win it with their Moore/McBurnie-style CFs. So I'd expect the Lens plan (pack the central areas, play short passes, if playing through the middle isn't working force overloads in wide areas and fire crosses/pullbacks into the box) to be more like what we see.

Tall Paul isn't built for pressing. He also isn't built for tapping in low crosses (there's past evidence of him getting into good poaching positions and scuffing them in, which is a little better than Downs so far who gets into the right position but whiffs the shot entirely). There's no evidence of him running in behind and scoring a goal like Downs did in preseason. So no, we shouldn't have kept him.

[chivvy]

Bravery and willingness to put head in where it might hurt and bully centre backs is where we are missing upfront.

[Toussaint]

10 minutes ago, chivvy said:

Bravery and willingness to put head in where it might hurt and bully centre backs is where we are missing upfront.

All over the pitch really, I get the impression the club are under the illusion we should win because we have a superior squad (debatable) and just tuning out is enough. We are just not earning the right to play. 

[AlexLaw76]

Is this where we are at… questioning whether we should have kept Onuachu?

 

[Patrick Bateman]

If the question is "should we have kept tall Paul", then just how awful has the player recruitment up front been? Yes, we know ... 🤨

[Tommy Mulgrew]

On 21/09/2025 at 18:08, trousers said:

We need another player in the mould of Rickie Lambert, Pelle or Ings. Simple as that. 

 

14 hours ago, chivvy said:

Bravery and willingness to put head in where it might hurt and bully centre backs is where we are missing upfront.

What is Kevin Davies doing these days?  Surely he wouldn’t turn down the chance of getting 100 (or more) yellow cards.  I’d suggest George Kirby but he’s a bit past it!
 

 

[There when Franny scored]

16 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

Still doesn't have a preferred style, his preferred strategy is "whatever wins". At Reims it was Ralph-style counterpress and playing long balls in behind after a turnover to send a pacey striker (Balogun) through one-on-one with the keeper. At Lens it was a 4-2-5 (with the keeper as part of the four) when being pressed, with the front five a long way up the pitch and looking to drop into the massive space between them and the holding midfielders to pick up the ball. Or a 3-2-5 when further up the pitch (with the keeper staying at home). The wingers pushed right up to pin the fullbacks, which meant if Plan A (AMs dropping back from the front five into central pockets to pick up the ball from the back five) wasn't working, Plan B was the AMs dropping back and wide where the defenders and holding mids couldn't follow them and fullbacks couldn't go to them for fear of leaving their man (the wingers) free.

Even on the occasions where "wingers whipping in crosses" has been a thing, it's been from Plan B and the crosses have generally been low crosses after an AM has drifted wide and worked an overload on the opposition fullback. It hasn't been "float one to the back post and let the big man go get it" type crossing.

Archer, Downs, and Armstrong are all well-suited to the Reims plan, but that plan overall suits an underdog better than one of the (allegedly) best teams in the league. You could try to force that plan by consistently punting the ball long to the opposition (forcing them to have most of the possession and try to play though you) and then pressing the fuck out of them, but at this level and against us they're more likely to just punt the ball back and maybe win it with their Moore/McBurnie-style CFs. So I'd expect the Lens plan (pack the central areas, play short passes, if playing through the middle isn't working force overloads in wide areas and fire crosses/pullbacks into the box) to be more like what we see.

Tall Paul isn't built for pressing. He also isn't built for tapping in low crosses (there's past evidence of him getting into good poaching positions and scuffing them in, which is a little better than Downs so far who gets into the right position but whiffs the shot entirely). There's no evidence of him running in behind and scoring a goal like Downs did in preseason. So no, we shouldn't have kept him.

Very interesting. Nice to have an informed poster 

[Greedyfly]

16 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

Still doesn't have a preferred style, his preferred strategy is "whatever wins". At Reims it was Ralph-style counterpress and playing long balls in behind after a turnover to send a pacey striker (Balogun) through one-on-one with the keeper. At Lens it was a 4-2-5 (with the keeper as part of the four) when being pressed, with the front five a long way up the pitch and looking to drop into the massive space between them and the holding midfielders to pick up the ball. Or a 3-2-5 when further up the pitch (with the keeper staying at home). The wingers pushed right up to pin the fullbacks, which meant if Plan A (AMs dropping back from the front five into central pockets to pick up the ball from the back five) wasn't working, Plan B was the AMs dropping back and wide where the defenders and holding mids couldn't follow them and fullbacks couldn't go to them for fear of leaving their man (the wingers) free.

Even on the occasions where "wingers whipping in crosses" has been a thing, it's been from Plan B and the crosses have generally been low crosses after an AM has drifted wide and worked an overload on the opposition fullback. It hasn't been "float one to the back post and let the big man go get it" type crossing.

Archer, Downs, and Armstrong are all well-suited to the Reims plan, but that plan overall suits an underdog better than one of the (allegedly) best teams in the league. You could try to force that plan by consistently punting the ball long to the opposition (forcing them to have most of the possession and try to play though you) and then pressing the fuck out of them, but at this level and against us they're more likely to just punt the ball back and maybe win it with their Moore/McBurnie-style CFs. So I'd expect the Lens plan (pack the central areas, play short passes, if playing through the middle isn't working force overloads in wide areas and fire crosses/pullbacks into the box) to be more like what we see.

Tall Paul isn't built for pressing. He also isn't built for tapping in low crosses (there's past evidence of him getting into good poaching positions and scuffing them in, which is a little better than Downs so far who gets into the right position but whiffs the shot entirely). There's no evidence of him running in behind and scoring a goal like Downs did in preseason. So no, we shouldn't have kept him.

That's a great summary and all, but then I have to ask, why isn't it working? Are our players that shite?

 

You're right about Downs being in the right positions(ish) but he's so far fallen over twice from 2 yards out and been completely inept against Hull. I actually want to like him, lovely finish in preseason, but he's been infuriatingly shit since. And my thoughts on Archer are well documented here. AA cannot lead a line. Stewart ? (He'd be my gamble)...Scienza the next gamble even though it's not really where he plays.

 

Basically I'm asking you to give me some hope to hang on to 😂

[saintant]

On 21/09/2025 at 16:47, washsaint said:

Based on Still's preferred style (wingers whipping crosses in allegedly) would we have been better to keep Tall Paul?  Both Downs and Stewart are an utter, utter waste of space.

At least with him we had a player who could act as a focal point (not saying he was great) and definitely an upgrade on both our 2 useless lumps we have.

In our least CHampionship season we had Adams acting as a focal point and bringing Armstrong (and others) into play.  NOw we have no-one.

No, we should have signed an experienced big powerful centre forward for far less than we paid for Downs. They're about but just not on the radar of our far-too-clever recruitment team led by Spors. This was a catastrophic error and many fans including me were saying we should sign such a player during the window. We didn't need a Downs type player who needs time and we've been crying out for a proper centre forward for numerous windows but it is never sorted. Now Still has to try to operate with wingers but they have nobody to get on the end of their crosses - ludicrous state of affairs.

[Mboto Gorge]

28 minutes ago, saintant said:

No, we should have signed an experienced big powerful centre forward for far less than we paid for Downs. They're about but just not on the radar of our far-too-clever recruitment team led by Spors. This was a catastrophic error and many fans including me were saying we should sign such a player during the window. We didn't need a Downs type player who needs time and we've been crying out for a proper centre forward for numerous windows but it is never sorted. Now Still has to try to operate with wingers but they have nobody to get on the end of their crosses - ludicrous state of affairs.

Indeed, the transfer window was largely ok for us, yet we’ve still neglected two of the single most important game changing positions on the pitch. Goalkeeper and centre forward. We also have an abundance of stock piled average to mediocre centre backs all of similar ability levels, but none particularly good that you’d say they’re our best centre back.
 

You can’t say we’ve learned any lessons with recruitment while we have Bazunu as first choice goalkeeper, and whilst we still don’t know who to pick up front because no one is performing , having not signed a proper centre forward in the window. 

Edited Monday at 21:57 by Mboto Gorge

[Saint Fan CaM]

Simply put no, although I understand why the OP might suggest it. But this is the way of Saints player recruitment over the last 4-5 years. Sign player X - oh player X is worse than previous players, let’s sign player Y - oh player Y is worse than X and the players before that, let’s sign player Z - oh, player Z is worse than X, Y and all those before. Shall we re-sign player X as they’re definitely better than Y and Z? 

And so it goes on…each successive signing a further decline in quality, but that doesn’t mean the first one was actually decent.

[ant]

Shall we go back for Elyounoussi while we're at it? Playing at a similar standard in the Danish Superliga, and been averaging 1 in 3 over the past two-and-a-bit seasons. 🙄

[Midfield_General]

10 hours ago, Mboto Gorge said:

Indeed, the transfer window was largely ok for us, yet we’ve still neglected two of the single most important game changing positions on the pitch. Goalkeeper and centre forward. We also have an abundance of stock piled average to mediocre centre backs all of similar ability levels, but none particularly good that you’d say they’re our best centre back.
 

You can’t say we’ve learned any lessons with recruitment while we have Bazunu as first choice goalkeeper, and whilst we still don’t know who to pick up front because no one is performing , having not signed a proper centre forward in the window. 

Sorry, but the transfer window can’t be judged as anything other than a disaster. 

£60m spent while leaving glaring weaknesses in the three most important positions on the pitch - GK, CB and CF - that any fan in the street could have told  you needed to be sorted first is staggering incompetence. 

We’re only a few games in but that triple fuck up has already cost us numerous points and from what we’ve seen so far I’d say it’s already cost us our best shot at automatic promotion this season because we are just going to drop too many points by not being able to score goals at one end or keep them out at the other. 

That is a basic, fundamental error of squad planning, and despite spending more money than most in this division could dream of, the club has managed to royally fuck it up, yet again. 

It’s a joke. 

Edited yesterday at 08:00 by Midfield_General

[Mboto Gorge]

16 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Sorry, but the transfer window can’t be judged as anything other than a disaster. 

£60m spent while leaving glaring weaknesses in the three most important positions on the pitch - GK, CB and CF - that any fan in the street could have told  you needed to be sorted first is staggering incompetence. 

We’re only a few games in but that triple fuck up has already cost us numerous points and from what we’ve seen so far I’d say it’s already cost us our best shot at automatic promotion this season because we are just going to drop too many points by not being able to score goals at one end or keep them out at the other. 

That is a basic, fundamental error of squad planning, and despite spending more money than most in this division could dream of, the club has managed to royally fuck it up, yet again. 

It’s a joke. 

That’s sort of what I was getting at, whilst trying not to be overly harsh. We have neglected the fundamental core positions which from which a successful team is built . We did shift a lot of deadwood and we signed some supposedly creative players , who’ve done nothing yet mind. But whatever way you look at it, if you spend over 50m and find yourself 19th then something is going badly wrong. Fucking embarrassing to be honest . Saturday was shambolic, we are such an easy touch and will be bullied every weekend at this rate by teams with similar game plans to hull.

Edited yesterday at 08:13 by Mboto Gorge

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Sorry, but the transfer window can’t be judged as anything other than a disaster. 

£60m spent while leaving glaring weaknesses in the three most important positions on the pitch - GK, CB and CF - that any fan in the street could have told  you needed to be sorted first is staggering incompetence. 

We’re only a few games in but that triple fuck up has already cost us numerous points and from what we’ve seen so far I’d say it’s already cost us our best shot at automatic promotion this season because we are just going to drop too many points by not being able to score goals at one end or keep them out at the other. 

That is a basic, fundamental error of squad planning, and despite spending more money than most in this division could dream of, the club has managed to royally fuck it up, yet again. 

It’s a joke. 

Spot on. If we analyse where we have been weakest so far it is clearly the goalkeeper, centre backs and centre forward. These areas have cost us points. Unfortunately it is a recurring theme at this football club.

[Mboto Gorge]

Wasn’t everything going to be different under Spors though? MLG was raving about him, it was going to be a new dawn apparently. 

[OldNick]

2 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

Sorry, but the transfer window can’t be judged as anything other than a disaster. 

£60m spent while leaving glaring weaknesses in the three most important positions on the pitch - GK, CB and CF - that any fan in the street could have told  you needed to be sorted first is staggering incompetence. 

We’re only a few games in but that triple fuck up has already cost us numerous points and from what we’ve seen so far I’d say it’s already cost us our best shot at automatic promotion this season because we are just going to drop too many points by not being able to score goals at one end or keep them out at the other. 

That is a basic, fundamental error of squad planning, and despite spending more money than most in this division could dream of, the club has managed to royally fuck it up, yet again. 

It’s a joke. 

Obviously we want to play in the prestige PL, but honestly do we want to go up with this squad? Until we start purchasing players that are equipped for the physical strenth , pace and power of the PL we will only get humiliated again. I couldnt see us getting 5 points with the standard players we have. 

[Kenilworthy59]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

Obviously we want to play in the prestige PL, but honestly do we want to go up with this squad? Until we start purchasing players that are equipped for the physical strenth , pace and power of the PL we will only get humiliated again. I couldnt see us getting 5 points with the standard players we have. 

We need to do what Sunderland and Forest have done. Go up with a team suitable for the Championship and then buy 20 players suitable for the Premier league. Even if it means a fine or points deduction it is worth taking the hit

[ItchenRob]

In some clickbaity type article I recently read (so take with a lorry load of salt) apparently Ryan Fraser said to McBurnie after the game that he wished we had a player like him to get on the end of our crosses.

[macca155]

4 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

Sorry, but the transfer window can’t be judged as anything other than a disaster. 

£60m spent while leaving glaring weaknesses in the three most important positions on the pitch - GK, CB and CF - that any fan in the street could have told  you needed to be sorted first is staggering incompetence. 

We’re only a few games in but that triple fuck up has already cost us numerous points and from what we’ve seen so far I’d say it’s already cost us our best shot at automatic promotion this season because we are just going to drop too many points by not being able to score goals at one end or keep them out at the other. 

That is a basic, fundamental error of squad planning, and despite spending more money than most in this division could dream of, the club has managed to royally fuck it up, yet again. 

It’s a joke. 

I wouldn't completely condemn the window just yet. They need a few matches to bed in, but early signs aren't good.

With Ramsdale on the payroll they were never going to buy a keeper. Just have to swallow that one. I also think they have defenders but Still isn't using them properly.

Biggest issue for me remains the bloated squad. It is full of average players who'll never make it in the Prem. They are blocking decent youngsters who just might. It should have been prunned way more than it has been. Too many players knocking around doing sod all.

Edited 22 hours ago by macca155

[Sarnia Cherie]

NO!!!

[sfc1142]

Yes, it's the way to get results in this league. Every team we've played against with a big striker has caused us problems 

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, ItchenRob said:

In some clickbaity type article I recently read (so take with a lorry load of salt) apparently Ryan Fraser said to McBurnie after the game that he wished we had a player like him to get on the end of our crosses.

He said that to McBurnie who then relayed that in his post match interview

[Verbal]

On 22/09/2025 at 07:22, AlexLaw76 said:

Is this where we are at… questioning whether we should have kept Onuachu?

 

Yes. What is your answer please and thank you?

[Mboto Gorge]

Like to know why people think it’s a definite no re Onuachu? We are in a league with a lot of strikers at his level of ability, or are we still struggling to get out of the premier league style snobbery whereby it would be unfashionable to say that he would have been more effective in this league than what we’ve been left with. Clearly he’s better than Stewart and Downs. So bearing in mind the alternatives are those two, then yes he should’ve stayed if we are simplifying things. The reason most of us were happy for him to leave was because we (stupidly as it happens) assumed Spors would sign a better target man to play up front. But he’s signed a total dud.

Edited 20 hours ago by Mboto Gorge