New Manager Debate

[Cabrone]

1 hour ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

It will be interesting to see how we react to going behind in a game, it hasn't happened under Tonda yet. As good as it's been he's only managed a handful of games at U21 and first team level, in an ideal world we keep it as it is right now for a few more games, how long does the 'new manager bounce' generally last for other clubs?

If he's achieved a new manager bounce he's the only one that has out of Selles, Martin, Juric and Still. I think the upturn is more than a new manager bounce, his time at Bayern and Genova has given him the ability.

[Saint NL]

Farke might be available this weekend....

[Wiggles31]

Wait for Farke to become available. Or Parker for that matter. Tonda has been amazing but too inexperienced. It will be a test of how he bounces back from this defeat. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Wiggles31

[Dr Who?]

We should give it to him or take on someone that we have lined up on a short list, but now is the time for some steady footing at the club. I bet they have not got anyone on a shortlist so give it to Tonda. 

I cannot see Leeds sacking him this week after the comeback and slender defeat at 2nd Place City! 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Tonda has already got the job.

[saintant]

42 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Tonda has already got the job.

Source?

[Wade Garrett]

Personally, I still want an experienced manager brought in.

[Roger]

Me too

[AlexLaw76]

I hope we allow him to learn his game back in the U21s.

Today, he was clueless on how to manage a game that, from about 10 mins in, was not going for us.....nothing changed WRT approach/shape and style.

We were very much 'more of the same'. Insanity and all that

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I hope we allow him to learn his game back in the U21s.

Today, he was clueless on how to manage a game that, from about 10 mins in, was not going for us.....nothing changed WRT approach/shape and style.

We were very much 'more of the same'. Insanity and all that

Isn’t that true of many if not most managers, including experienced ?

The only manager of ours I recall being renowned for tweaking things mid-match was Hoddle. Although that deserted him one night at Tranmere  

[AlexLaw76]

7 minutes ago, Badger said:

Isn’t that true of many if not most managers, including experienced ?

The only manager of ours I recall being renowned for tweaking things mid-match was Hoddle. Although that deserted him one night at Tranmere  

When it is that obvious from so early in the game, to do nothing remotely different is just weird.

I mean, passing it around at the back and giving to (mostly) to THB where the attacks start, and expecting him to pick passes into a packed midfield, is silly. Will Still/Russell Martin kind of shit.

I get we can't just lump to Arma, but Millwall (and I suspect other sides we face with limited resources) will simply dig into midfield and wait for us to expect our CBs to pick Pirlo-esque passes into marked players...

Edited 18 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[Badger]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

When it is that obvious from so early in the game, to do nothing remotely different is just weird.

I mean, passing it around at the back and giving to (mostly) to THB where the attacks start, and expecting him to pick passes into a packed midfield, is silly. Will Still/Russell Martin kind of shit.

I get we can't just lump to Arma, but the Millwall (and I suspect other sides we face with limited resources) will simply dig into midfield and wait for us to expect our CBs to pick Pirlo-esque passes into marked players...

Don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but it doesn’t address whether we’d find someone up to quickly changing things from the touchline. 

[Dusic]

5 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Farke might be available this weekend....

And probably needs a break rather than just instantly ending up somewhere else with probably no energy.

We were a clearance away from a decent point today considering we didnt really get going and had quite a few players missing. 

[Harry_SFC]

20 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

When it is that obvious from so early in the game, to do nothing remotely different is just weird.

I mean, passing it around at the back and giving to (mostly) to THB where the attacks start, and expecting him to pick passes into a packed midfield, is silly. Will Still/Russell Martin kind of shit.

I get we can't just lump to Arma, but Millwall (and I suspect other sides we face with limited resources) will simply dig into midfield and wait for us to expect our CBs to pick Pirlo-esque passes into marked players...

It's games like this where it's literally pointless to have Armstrong upfront. You really need a big outlet up top to use as an out ball.

 

[Roo1976]

17 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I hope we allow him to learn his game back in the U21s.

Today, he was clueless on how to manage a game that, from about 10 mins in, was not going for us.....nothing changed WRT approach/shape and style.

We were very much 'more of the same'. Insanity and all that

But i thought we played with were not going to loose mentality today we were too casual,there were moments when we played the ball too nonchalantly  and seemed to go back to our old ways of playing under the RM way. The Aribo thing i dont get,him and Edozie i thought downed tools and wanted out and now somehow hes back. We didnt miss him and should have played Bragg,Matsuki or even Oyekunle,but to go onto putting  in a player of Aribos credentials and for that effortless performance puts us back down to earth quite sharply. I do hope this is just a minor blip,but Coventry are romping this ATM so there seems to be only one more auto and a playoff sport for promotion to go for even this early on.

[Appy]

20 minutes ago, Dusic said:

And probably needs a break rather than just instantly ending up somewhere else with probably no energy.

We were a clearance away from a decent point today considering we didnt really get going and had quite a few players missing. 

A clearance away? Yeah, stick that on the points total, you do come out with some nonsense 

[CB Fry]

5 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Farke might be available this weekend....

This forum is weirdly obsessed with the idea that managers that get sacked go off to take a new job immediately.

Farke isn't going get sacked from Leeds and rock up at Saints a week later. Ditto Corberan, ditto all of them. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Willo of Whiteley]

SR are creaming themselves over a guy that has four managerial wins.

He’ll be announced I’m sure of it

[MarkSFC]

Now hes lost one its the best time to appoint the real choice. Great job Tonda, now go make the U21s great so we have a pipeline of players for the next season or two....

 

[Dusic]

49 minutes ago, Appy said:

A clearance away? Yeah, stick that on the points total, you do come out with some nonsense 

Yeah, if we clear the cross, or Romeu makes a tackle then we get a point from a tough game that we didn't play well in.

Point being, I'm not sure it suddenly means that Tonda isn't the right guy at full time if he was at kick off?

Is that nonsense?

 

[CB Fry]

What Tonda has done is drag us back into mid table and in the mix for top 6 minimum.

Those four wins hopefully has made this a (more) tempting role for an experienced manager.

Edited 17 hours ago by CB Fry

[die Mannyschaft]

I would prefer to have a manager that doesn't use possession football in an important game. Some of the football was just nonsense  at Millwall. We won't appointment an old school type manager so I fully expect another possession based modern manager who ever it is. 

I can see why St Mary's has gone quieter and its not going to change in next 4 seasons if coaches continue to havd the goalkeeper as thd starting point for playing out the back.

[saintant]

17 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Farke might be available this weekend....

Is Farke off?

[Badger]

12 hours ago, MarkSFC said:

Now hes lost one its the best time to appoint the real choice. Great job Tonda, now go make the U21s great so we have a pipeline of players for the next season or two....

 

And if that real choice was Gary O’Neil ? 

[Fabrice29]

12 hours ago, CB Fry said:

What Tonda has done is drag us back into mid table and in the mix for top 6 minimum.

Those four wins hopefully has made this a (more) tempting role for an experienced manager.

Ahead of quite a lot of experienced managers btw.

[Forester]

Old fashioned and unconventional opinion perhaps.  But having had prior experience of four wins from four games, perhaps in assessing his capabilities to be a permanent boss we will learn more from how he reacts to this defeat than we have in the first four games?

If he goes and collects six points from the Brum and WBA games, arguably in the long run he is a better appointment to make than having known nothing but (very short term) success?

[CB Fry]

42 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Ahead of quite a lot of experienced managers btw.

Current top 6 all managed by experienced managers so what's your point?

[Fabrice29]

7 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Current top 6 all managed by experienced managers so what's your point?

That having a manager with ‘experience’ doesn’t determine how well you do. 

[Wade Garrett]

46 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

That having a manager with ‘experience’ doesn’t determine how well you do. 

Any dry-cleaning to pick up?

[AlexLaw76]

50 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

That having a manager with ‘experience’ doesn’t determine how well you do. 

It helps

[Badger]

13 hours ago, CB Fry said:

What Tonda has done is drag us back into mid table and in the mix for top 6 minimum.

Those four wins hopefully has made this a (more) tempting role for an experienced manager.

Not such a bad achievement given we were looking at the other end of the table under Still. 

[badgerx16]

All "experienced" managers started out as inexperienced.

[Fabrice29]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It helps

Good coaching and man management helps more.
 

We also really need to stop believing the manager is the deciding factor in our season. Its importance is massively overplayed at this club and on this message board. Hence why we go through so many.

Edited 2 hours ago by Fabrice29

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

That having a manager with ‘experience’ doesn’t determine how well you do. 

Fucking guarantee there's a correlation. 

[Badger]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Good coaching and man management helps more.
 

We really need to stop believing the manager is the deciding factor in our season. Its importance is massively overplayed at this club and on this message board. Hence why we go through so many.

Couldn’t disagree more. 
 

Isn’t coaching and man-management part of the managers role ? 
 

The manager, or ‘head coach’ is a critical appointment, and should shape things on the pitch and motivate the squad. But his impact will always be tempered by the player recruitment. For me, the managers input in recruitment should be high on the list of criteria in player recruitment, but seems it isn’t.

The reason we go through so many is that we keep making the wrong appointments. Will Still ffs…. 

[Wade Garrett]

25 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

All "experienced" managers started out as inexperienced.

Let them get their experience and make their mistakes somewhere else.

[AlexLaw76]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Good coaching and man management helps more.
 

We also really need to stop believing the manager is the deciding factor in our season. Its importance is massively overplayed at this club and on this message board. Hence why we go through so many.

May as well make Lallana the manager, you know, experience means little.

 

[Badger]

7 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Let them get their experience and make their mistakes somewhere else.

Fair point, to some degree, if you are confident they won’t make the same mistakes again.

Strachan for example probably came to us a better manager for his experience at Coventry. You’d like to think Carrick might be more ‘battle hardened’ by his time at Middlesbrough. Then you have Lego who as we saw at Rangers just sticks to the same blueprint irrespective of it going tits up. 

[Badger]

11 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Let them get their experience and make their mistakes somewhere else.

Also worth bearing in mind whoever takes the job on will have to contend with the squad and some of its shirkers for a while. To this end Eckert has done well until yesterday.

It seems that no matter who we appoint as the ‘attendant’ some of the turds aren’t going to flush easily. 

[Fabrice29]

20 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Let them get their experience and make their mistakes somewhere else.

Hello Nathan Jones just before we appointed him. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Hello Nathan Jones just before we appointed him. 

What premier league/elite level experience did he have?

Edited 2 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[Mboto Gorge]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What premier league/elite level experience did he have?

I wouldn’t bother arguing with Cortese’s ex laundry boy , it’s pointless

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What premier league/elite level experience did he have?

What Championship experience did Kompany or Maresca have before they won this league straight away? Or Farke? 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Mboto Gorge said:

I wouldn’t bother arguing with Cortese’s ex laundry boy , it’s pointless

He was one of those who wanted Russell to stay last season, no matter what...

weirdo 

[Wade Garrett]

11 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Hello Nathan Jones just before we appointed him. 

Before I put you on ignore, I would just like to tell you to fuck right off you boring cunt.

[Fabrice29]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

He was one of those who wanted Russell to stay last season, no matter what...

weirdo 

Yeah sorry must have missed the bit where we’ve magically got better under the 4 managers we’ve had since? Almost as if my original point of changing the manager all the time isn’t the magic wand everyone seems to think it is.

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Before I put you on ignore, I would just like to tell you to fuck right off you boring cunt.

One of your better posts tbf. Do the laundry thing again just one last time please…‘boring cunt’

Edited 2 hours ago by Fabrice29

[Morse]

The best manager in the world can't turn shit players into good players. We've got too many shit players particularly in defence.

This is a unarguable fact. 

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Also worth bearing in mind whoever takes the job on will have to contend with the squad and some of its shirkers for a while. To this end Eckert has done well until yesterday.

It seems that no matter who we appoint as the ‘attendant’ some of the turds aren’t going to flush easily. 

Exactly right, which is why I would prefer an experienced manager who played to a good level.  Shirkers need to be pulled up, and the troublesome ones need to be sorted.

[Wade Garrett]

14 minutes ago, Morse said:

The best manager in the world can't turn shit players into good players. We've got too many shit players particularly in defence.

This is a unarguable fact. 

Not for this level, although Stephens and Manning are poor defenders, I wouldn't start either of them.  Stephens is a ball-watcher and Manning never stops a cross.  Fellows is a winger being played out of position.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Wade Garrett