Saints 3-1 Birmingham - Match Thread

[bpsaint]

How shit was Will Still then.

[Charlie Wayman]

The win was never in doubt after the first quarter but there must be question marks over our fitness after this second half performance. The midfield disappeared after half time and more or less ceeded the game to them.

Oriol needs a lot more time to regain match fitness and if Aribo is the only other alternative then heaven help us. Thankfully Charles must be getting closer to the bench.

 

[sfc4prem]

We tired towards the end but still carved out good chances for Archer and Robinson.

Bringing Aribo on was like going down to 10 men. Manning staying on is a worry, we need someone to replace him. He doesn't close down his man enough anyway, let alone when he's blowing out of his arse in the final 20 minutes.

Tonda is good at analysing other teams. I think he needs to delve in deeper into our players in the last 20 minutes of games. We give away far too much.

[sfc4prem]

Mainly, though, we are so much more positive and are actually utilising our creative and dynamic attackers. Scienza is a fucking revelation. A game changer.

[Saint NL]

9 minutes ago, richardc said:

just noticed skates in relegation spot

Weird one for them, game was called off after a fan had a health issue.

[James G]

There's alot of work ahead, but I thought that was a good victory today. I think Tonda is trying to give some of the older players a chance when the opportunity arises, but I'm sure he sees what we see and will adapt over time. 

 

[tdmickey3]

3 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Weird one for them, game was called off after a fan had a health issue.

The fan passed away, very sad

[suewhistle]

32 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Wasn’t at the game but saw that we take off the two best attacking players we have.

In other words that says to the opposition “we’re done for the day now”.

Scienza who was coming back from illness and also the target of many fouls and Armstrong who was also injured a bit. They were both fairly obvious choices and Robinson and Archer decent replacements.

I was annoyed that Aribo came on though..

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Our drop in pace continued into the second half. Game management that we'll get better at, and testament to the strong work we're doing in the first Halfs these days.

They got back into it. But we struck back almost immediately. They missed an excellent chance, and we had chances too. On balance we looked fairly comfortable, with gas left in the tank.

Sensible subs again. Robinson and Archer looked to into some life into it. 

All the hard work done in the first 45, with Scienza being our MVP at the moment.

[Verbal]

27 minutes ago, richardc said:

just noticed skates in relegation spot

Evergreen post

[RedArmy]

54 minutes ago, obelisk said:

FT and 3-1 but Saints are flattered by that scoreline. 

You know Saints are the team in red and white, yeah? 

[lambtiss]

52 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Wasn’t at the game but saw that we take off the two best attacking players we have.

In other words that says to the opposition “we’re done for the day now”.

We were 3-1 up  Clearly Tonda was resting both players ahead of a midweek game, especially with star man Scienza recovering from an illness. Also, good opportunity for Robinson and Archer.

[Whitey Grandad]

29 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

The fan passed away, very sad

Very sad indeed. Some things are far more important than football. 

[Wade Garrett]

Bellis, Downes, Scienza and Fellows were very good today.

We were deserved winners and could have had more but for some good saves and poor finishing.

[Thereisonlyonemickychannon]

41 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

How shit was Will Still then.

The rubbing of his eyes like a tired schoolboy

[SouSaint]

Better team and a deserved 3 points. Well in lads! 

[jamesfp1]

Are we really good? I think we're really good?

[SaintBobby]

Deserved win. Brum weren’t at it in the first half.

The fluidity of Leo, Azaz, Arma & Fellows in attack is something to behold.

Downsides? 1. Never looked like keeping a clean sheet. 2. Aribo…Jesus F***ing Christ.

 

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, jamesfp1 said:

Are we really good? I think we're really good?

The progress in 6 games is remarkable. We should get better and better but certainly need to defend calmly and more efficiently. Going forward we are good to watch.

[lambtiss]

1 hour ago, Zorba said:

Great result. Scienza different class. Nice to see Archer looking up for it when he came on. I really want him to start scoring. COYS!

So noticeable from Archer wasn't it. He started off at Aston Villa so I guess his desire to score against their arch rivals explains his energy. That run he went on beating two or three defenders was a revelation.

Tonda should grab him and tell him that he needs to play with that level of intensity all the time.

Edited 22 hours ago by lambtiss

[St Louis]

18 goals in his 6 games and 5 wins from 6! And we still have some fans moaning about how we played and who we took off, christ alive, enjoy it man!
I'd imagine Tonda took Scienza off after 60 mins as he missed most of last weeks' training (and the midweek game) with illness, so I'm glad to see Leo rested (and Azaz) and just manage the game and give some others a run out, as we have 3 games in 7 days. 
Good day at the office... again.

[HarvSFC]

At least the nonsense of "scar tissue" can be put to bed for ever more now. Just a poor excuse used by both Martin and Still to deflect from their own managerial shortcomings. It feels like it left these players overnight between Still and Tonda.

We all wanted to see the team give a reaction after last week and we got one. It was another comfortable victory for us and we pretty much had it sealed and took our foot off the gas for the rest of the game after the second goal on the 24th minute.

We're just very good to watch again. We're attacking in numbers, at pace and putting the opposition into awkward positions. The positions we wouldn't work the opposition into under Still because we were so slow, killed our attacks dead by stopping and passing the ball sideways, or hoofing it aimlessly and just surrendering possession and allowing the opposition onto us. We're playing much like Coventry now (even if they did lose today), beating teams comfortably and scoring near three goals a game when we were struggling to get one with Still's tactics.

Scienza was my MotM. Think he's the best player in the league. Birmingham couldn't cope with him and had to hack him down. The first and third goals came from his trademark running up the pitch and cutting inside just outside of the box, one he decided to pass and one he decided to shoot, but both resulted in goals. Fellows should have scored when he hit the bar too from a Scienza play.

Jander as well. What a player. He's the one that allows us to beat the press because he can take the ball on the turn and instantly gets us up the pitch. This is what separates him and Smallbone. Smallbone could never take the ball on the turn and recycled the ball to where it came, more often than not taking the safe option. Jander gets us moving up the pitch instantly and pick out passes that others aren't capable of.

This is what we need more of from the scouting department. Two players we had never heard of before their joining, only had a few videos to get excited about and they're instant stars. We pretty much need the Scienza/Jander version of a striker and we will be flying, even though, and again I must applaud Tonda for being able to get a tune out of Armstrong upfront when so many of our previous managers failed.

5 wins from 6. 3 straight home wins. Football is good again. Up the Saints.

 

 

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The win was never in doubt after the first quarter but there must be question marks over our fitness after this second half performance. The midfield disappeared after half time and more or less ceeded the game to them.

Oriol needs a lot more time to regain match fitness and if Aribo is the only other alternative then heaven help us. Thankfully Charles must be getting closer to the bench.

 

Aribo did his best to get himself a 3 match ban. Should have been a red for his pathetic attempt at a challenge 

[die Mannyschaft]

Leo Scienza, Leo Scienza leo leo Scienza will give me his shirt...we'll gave it to my son. Top man Leo, great player.

Brilliant win today, 1st half excellent,  but of luck today but its 3 points. Much more attacking and we have plenty of runner now.

[Football Special]

23 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

So noticeable from Archer wasn't it. He started off at Aston Villa so I guess his desire to score against their arch rivals explains his energy. That run he went on beating two or three defenders was a revelation.

Tonda should grab him and tell him that he needs to play with that level of intensity all the time.

Agree, Archer has done enough in his career to show he can be a very good player at this level, just seems to have a chronic lack of confidence/ drive for most of his time with us. Hopefully someone can get his producing more 

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Bellis, Downes, Scienza and Fellows were very good today.

We were deserved winners and could have had more but for some good saves and poor finishing.

Yeah should have scored 6 really, Birmingham could have had a few as well to be fair, need to work on our '2nd halves' as seem to fall apart a bit when making changes,  massive relief when we got 3rd goal today 

[Wade Garrett]

13 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Yeah should have scored 6 really, Birmingham could have had a few as well to be fair, need to work on our '2nd halves' as seem to fall apart a bit when making changes,  massive relief when we got 3rd goal today 

To be fair, I don’t think he would have made those subs if we didn’t have a midweek game.

[SWLondon Saint]

Good win against a decent team, though they are a bit crap away from home. I only caught from about 30 mins so missed the first 2 goals. Attacking looked decent especially when Leo is on the ball, agree he's probably the best attacking player in the league. He's also good at receiving the ball under pressure and buying the foul when he can't get away which is an invaluable skill to relieve pressure.

Defensively we looked pretty ropey though especially on our left. Last 20 minutes was backs to the wall stuff with everyone in our box which I just don't understand. Honestly feel like the 3 CBs are a huge problem for our shape under pressure, if you just surrender the midfield and let lots of crosses come in you are going to concede, which we should have done with that incredible miss by them. Anyway, hopefully Tonda can figure that out, we do have options...

[macca155]

Just back and that was a good win. Birmingham are a tidy side, but with a bit more compusure in front of goal Saints could have had 5 or more.

Usual frailties at the back, that needs sorting, but that only really started in earnest when Aribo and Romeu were on. Manning (I don't do crosses) was suddenly exposed and it became keystone kops. I don't have too many issues with Stephens but he looked a bit lost today, almost not required. Wood and THB have found some form. Good time to bring in Quarshie now.

Fellows was MoTM for me, amongst some stiff competition, and boy does Archer 'Villa boy' hate Birmingham. I've never seen him so energised, and good grief he's quick. He's so desperate for a goal he's lost a bit of compusure. I reckon once he scores, they'll be a goal rush.

Aribo What's the point, Bragg is the way better option. Just pay him off and be done with it.

Good day

COYS

[scumbag]

Good result, but anxiety inducing shite in the second half, with brum having so much space and missing a few sitters.

[Toadhall Saint]

33 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Good win against a decent team, though they are a bit crap away from home. I only caught from about 30 mins so missed the first 2 goals. Attacking looked decent especially when Leo is on the ball, agree he's probably the best attacking player in the league. He's also good at receiving the ball under pressure and buying the foul when he can't get away which is an invaluable skill to relieve pressure.

Defensively we looked pretty ropey though especially on our left. Last 20 minutes was backs to the wall stuff with everyone in our box which I just don't understand. Honestly feel like the 3 CBs are a huge problem for our shape under pressure, if you just surrender the midfield and let lots of crosses come in you are going to concede, which we should have done with that incredible miss by them. Anyway, hopefully Tonda can figure that out, we do have options...

Second time we have done that. Seems as soon as Leo is subbed 2 of our midfield drop back to about 5 yards in front of the CD’s. Very frustrating as it gives a lot of space in midfield.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Good result, loving the fast transitions and quick balls up the pitch.

Yep, game management needs sorting. Would have helped last week and calmed things down in the last 20 minutes. Something for Tonda to work on.

[S-Clarke]

This was a really impressive one for me, probably our most. I have been sceptical about how we return from poor results over the last few years, but we bounced back properly today. 

I thought Birmingham gave us a really good game, as I felt they would - but we break so quickly now, we don't fart around with the ball, we get it and go with pace. Getting direct players like Leo and Fellows in the team makes such a difference, because it automatically pulls players around and creates space - and Armstrong thrives in space, so he's going to nick things. 

Leo was the best player on the pitch though, it's not just his direct running, what I really love about him is his resilience - he just keeps going, he gets kicked, pulled, pushed but he keeps going - he doesn't play for the foul, he plays to make something/score something. He's the best player we've had in fricking years, a proper game changing player -  not many of those at this level.

I think what we're seeing now is the new blood showing their face - Azaz, Fellows, Leo, Jander - they've stepped up and they're pulling this team along now. We're not reliant on Downes being fit, Armstrong being fit, Edozie or Aribo being available - we've evolved and you can now finally see the improvements. There are still holes in the squad that I'm sure we'll fill, but this is more like it.

I think Still tried to put too much of a structure in place around players who didn't really want that, whereas the biggest difference I can see that Tonda has brought is enabling freedom - go and run if you've got space, drive forward if there's room. None of this pass back just to keep the ball nonsense, the target seems to be clear and they have clarity - get forward as soon as possible with as few passes as possible, keep the pace quick and drive forward. We have a squad of players built entirely for that, so now they're being allowed to play that way it's no surprise the results are coming.

[SWLondon Saint]

7 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Second time we have done that. Seems as soon as Leo is subbed 2 of our midfield drop back to about 5 yards in front of the CD’s. Very frustrating as it gives a lot of space in midfield.

Yeah, I was thinking it looked just like against QPR and Millwall. Our midfield 2 drop back and our front 3 are all about half way between our box and the centre circle, then it's really hard for us to get out. Why play so deep? We're not playing bloody PSG or something. I just don't get it.

[bugenhagen]

33 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Just back and that was a good win. Birmingham are a tidy side, but with a bit more compusure in front of goal Saints could have had 5 or more.

Usual frailties at the back, that needs sorting, but that only really started in earnest when Aribo and Romeu were on. Manning (I don't do crosses) was suddenly exposed and it became keystone kops. I don't have too many issues with Stephens but he looked a bit lost today, almost not required. Wood and THB have found some form. Good time to bring in Quarshie now.

Fellows was MoTM for me, amongst some stiff competition, and boy does Archer 'Villa boy' hate Birmingham. I've never seen him so energised, and good grief he's quick. He's so desperate for a goal he's lost a bit of compusure. I reckon once he scores, they'll be a goal rush.

Aribo What's the point, Bragg is the way better option. Just pay him off and be done with it.

Good day

COYS

I felt that Jander protected our left side a lot today, and when Romeu came on he was a bit slower to move out and shut down spaces in the same way.

Also feel that Robinson left a lot of space on the left, as he often ended up more central in his defensive posistioning than Leo did.

[markr27]

One thing that stuck in the mind was Leo Scienza. He got very miffed when AA grabbed the ball for the free kick attempt on goal early in the 1st half; outstretched arms and shouting towards the bench.
Azaz's goal followed shortly after. and Jack Stephens demonstrated a captain's role by sticking an arm around Leo, talking him down and putting any issue to bed as they walked back to restart play.

Aribo's performance is another thing that stuck in my head, unfortunately.

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, bugenhagen said:

I felt that Jander protected our left side a lot today, and when Romeu came on he was a bit slower to move out and shut down spaces in the same way.

Also feel that Robinson left a lot of space on the left, as he often ended up more central in his defensive posistioning than Leo did.

Jander held that midfield together today and I think he's really grown into this side, but you can't underestimate the work Leo does up and down that left. He never stops.

He helps Manning out so much, which is crazy to say for such a maverick style player. He's fairly unique in that sense, skill in abundance but he works his arse off in equal measure. The team is 10x weaker without him, and it shows.

[macca155]

11 minutes ago, bugenhagen said:

I felt that Jander protected our left side a lot today, and when Romeu came on he was a bit slower to move out and shut down spaces in the same way.

Also feel that Robinson left a lot of space on the left, as he often ended up more central in his defensive posistioning than Leo did.

Good point, hadn't noticed that. Robinson is a good replacement for Leo, has his own box of tricks, but as you say is a different player. He likes to drive through the middle, and didn't Archer love that by the way, but leaves a gap behind him. 

Just take off a CB and bring on Bragg who has performed in that position well so far.

[die Mannyschaft]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

Agree, Archer has done enough in his career to show he can be a very good player at this level, just seems to have a chronic lack of confidence/ drive for most of his time with us. Hopefully someone can get his producing more 

Just shooting first or even 2nd touch would have got him two goals. The longer he takes and same for other players the closer the keeper get to him. Some good running, the speed he showed today is promising 

[bugenhagen]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Jander held that midfield together today and I think he's really grown into this side, but you can't underestimate the work Leo does up and down that left. He never stops.

He helps Manning out so much, which is crazy to say for such a maverick style player. He's fairly unique in that sense, skill in abundance but he works his arse off in equal measure. The team is 10x weaker without him, and it shows.

Even without his skills and direct running, he brings so much to the side in terms of smartness, positional awareness and work rate. He both supports Armstrong as a second striker, and in the next move he is back at the left touchline helping Manning. Impressive for a maverick type player.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, scumbag said:

Good result, but anxiety inducing shite in the second half, with brum having so much space and missing a few sitters.

As did we to be fair. AA had one saved and Archer was clean through and keeper saved one.

[SWLondon Saint]

9 minutes ago, saintant said:

As did we to be fair. AA had one saved and Archer was clean through and keeper saved one.

None of ours was as glaring as that totally open goal miss by them though. If that had gone in for 3-2 I don't have a lot of confidence we'd have held on...

[Give it to Ron]

4 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

None of ours was as glaring as that totally open goal miss by them though. If that had gone in for 3-2 I don't have a lot of confidence we'd have held on...

Don’t agree we had 3 really good chances to their one in fact 6-2 would have been about right based on chances

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

None of ours was as glaring as that totally open goal miss by them though. If that had gone in for 3-2 I don't have a lot of confidence we'd have held on...

Don't remember them missing an open goal.

[Give it to Ron]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Don't remember them missing an open goal.

Kyogo did after it hit post he got some peroxide in his eyes from stupid hair cut 

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

Don't remember them missing an open goal.

Kyogo in the second half. 6 yards out over the bar. Harder to miss to be honest. 

[saintant]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

Kyogo did after it hit post he got some peroxide in his eyes from stupid hair cut 

Ah yes. Not sure it was a much better chance than AA or Archer because it came to him quickly so he was forced to react in a split second.

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

Don't remember them missing an open goal.

Err, after their player hit the post, Kyogo missed an absolute sitter

[Give it to Ron]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

Ah yes. Not sure it was a much better chance than AA or Archer because it came to him quickly so he was forced to react in a split second.

Adding in Fellows and I think Jays too as I say 6-2 fair score in chances

[Fabrice29]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

To be fair, I don’t think he would have made those subs if we didn’t have a midweek game.

Armstrong had evidently received a knock a short time before being taken off, he was struggling but refused treatment to stay on. Leo has been taken off a few times around that hour mark, I think that’s clearly a belief in the club he wouldn’t make it through so many minutes in a week with that intensity.