Saints 1-1 Coventry - Match Thread

[rallyboy]

I'd like to have seen Cameron Archer come on for the last fifteen minutes.

 

[Lighthouse]

Just now, Viking Saint said:

The decision to loan out both Bree and Sugawara leaving us with only one recognised RB looks pretty bloody stupid now

Eh? We have Jelert, Roeslev, Fellows and Wely who can all play RB/RWB.

[saintant]

Can anyone explain why we seemed to push Wellington higher up the pitch and play more of a back four for a ten minute spell in the first half? Hinchcliffe commented on it and it was our best spell of the whole game. Unfortunately we then decided to ditch what was working and go back to more of a back five. Couldn't get my head round that - we had Coventry on the back foot and then decided, nah, let's give them back the initiative.

[Harry_SFC]

I would've taken a point before the game and at half time, so not overly disappointed. 

Looking at the next 3 games over the festive period. Oxford - second bottom and a game we have to be winning. Birmingham - in terrible form and a game we should be winning. Millwall - up there but have struggled away from home recently, so should be looking to get 3 points.

9 points please. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Harry_SFC

[RedArmy]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Can anyone explain why we seemed to push Wellington higher up the pitch and play more of a back four for a ten minute spell in the first half?

Because we do that every game under Tonda for spells, mainly in the first half though obviously. 
 

Fellows stays up, THB goes out to RB, Scienza moves out wider on the left and Azaz goes through the middle. 
 

That’s what we’ve been doing for weeks. 
 

 

[LGTL]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Eh? We have Jelert, Roeslev, Fellows and Wely who can all play RB/RWB.

What’s the obsession in our fanbase with playing players out of position? Fellows and Wellington are not RB’s or RWB’s and shouldn’t be considered as such. Fellows is a right winger doing a job defensively, nothing more. 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Harry_SFC said:

I would've taken a point before the game and at half time, so not overly disappointed. 

Looking at the next 3 games over the festive period. Oxford - second bottom and a game we have to be winning. Birmingham - in terrible form and a game we should be winning. Millwall - up there but have a bit of a dismal away record, so should be getting 3 points.

9 points please. 

Their home record is very good so doubt we'll get anything there. Despite the recent six wins we remain very disjointed. For me we need signings in January to freshen things up but not expecting us to do much. Not sure we have enough about us to make the play-offs and an injury to Scienza would be a disaster.

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Maybe that's why we "played a back 5" second half - actually it was Wood and Quashie at the back - THB played midfield and got into the box for crosses. Remember we are a team of midgets. We cannot afford to take off our tall, solid good headers of the ball when we know they will be packing their box to defend and every shot from a twinkle toes will have to go through a mass of bodies.

I was hoping we’d leave wood upfront.

[RedArmy]

5 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

I was hoping we’d leave wood upfront.

Tonda couldn’t keep his wood up. 

[Patches O Houlihan]

1 minute ago, RedArmy said:

Tonda couldn’t keep his wood up. 

You wanted him to hide his Wood.

Wood up front - a tactic likely to work in Coventry I've heard

[Patches O Houlihan]

27 minutes ago, saintant said:

Can anyone explain why we seemed to push Wellington higher up the pitch and play more of a back four for a ten minute spell in the first half? Hinchcliffe commented on it and it was our best spell of the whole game. Unfortunately we then decided to ditch what was working and go back to more of a back five. Couldn't get my head round that - we had Coventry on the back foot and then decided, nah, let's give them back the initiative.

Did it coincide with Welington getting fouled and not getting it given - then chasing back, making a fair (ish) tackle and giving away a foul?

If so maybe he just lost a little confidence to play that far forward when he's not quite up to match sharpness after injury and playing on the wrong side?

[Harry_SFC]

24 minutes ago, saintant said:

Their home record is very good so doubt we'll get anything there. Despite the recent six wins we remain very disjointed. For me we need signings in January to freshen things up but not expecting us to do much. Not sure we have enough about us to make the play-offs and an injury to Scienza would be a disaster.

If we don't look to sign a keeper or a CF then we are basically giving up this season. Imagine how many assists Fellows and Scienza would have if we had a proper striker we could at least bring off the bench. 

[die Mannyschaft]

2 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Definite red card, could’ve broken Wellington’s leg.

FFS get Fellows on. Rip up the Rasmus playbook and ditch 5ATB, show some cojones.

Definitely a red. Agree Fellows needs to be on and more forward thinking play. We are now on Russell Martin plus Gold. 

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Edmonton Saint said:

I do hope Stewart is back soon. I feel he could thrive under this system if he stays fit.

Two weeks 👍

[Jack]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

Quarshies passing is poor but in terms of actual defending he looked pretty solid to me. Covered for Manning on numerous occasions. Probably our best CB today tbh. 

Ok defensively yeah, but really not suited to our possession game at the back. I don’t think it’s his fault, the manager likes to play another CB next to him whose passing isn’t great, and a defensive liability to his left. 
 

Would be interested to see how he looks in a 4 with THB, with a competent left back next to him. 

[Suhari]

1 hour ago, disconnect said:

Makes Stephens seem like Einstein. He'd be good on a night out with Matty Targett 🤣

It's a pub quiz team I wouldn't mind coming up against.

[VectisSaint]

We missed Arma when he went off in the second half. Have to say I missed it happening.

[Lighthouse]

47 minutes ago, LGTL said:

What’s the obsession in our fanbase with playing players out of position? Fellows and Wellington are not RB’s or RWB’s and shouldn’t be considered as such. Fellows is a right winger doing a job defensively, nothing more. 

What part of my post constitutes an obsession? We have two right backs, a RWB who has been superb all season in Fellows and a LB who can deputise there competently, as he did today, on the rare occasions that all three of the others are injured.

In no possible interpretation of the English language do we, "only have one right back."

[HarvSFC]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

For what? The shoulder to shoulder between THB and Wright? 

Yeah, was mentioned many times on the Sky commentary, David Prutton and Frank Lampard in his post match interviews that the "two strikers in the studio saw it as a penalty". Two strikers in Charlie Austin and Kevin Phillips who don't look at their time at Southampton fondly.

[Turkish]

That game was crying out for Damion Downs 

[Appy]

Was Lampard getting much stick from the saints fans? I’m in block 42 and probably heard 1, maybe 2 chants at him, hardly warranted that weird reaction. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 hours ago, Edmonton Saint said:

I do hope Stewart is back soon.

Good opening, to get options in our squad...

4 hours ago, Edmonton Saint said:

 I feel he could thrive under this system

Solid tactical analysis of where we're lacking...

4 hours ago, Edmonton Saint said:

if he stays fit.

Post crashes and burns into fantasy land. 🙂

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Holmes_and_Watson

[die Mannyschaft]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

I would've taken a point before the game and at half time, so not overly disappointed. 

Looking at the next 3 games over the festive period. Oxford - second bottom and a game we have to be winning. Birmingham - in terrible form and a game we should be winning. Millwall - up there but have struggled away from home recently, so should be looking to get 3 points.

9 points please. 

We need wins to keep with the 8 above. We struggle to keep on the front foot against anyone half decent. I think its the style of play that Saints adopted. Charlton away was a one off that Saints showed the leaque how good we are. But that was against a useless team and no other team is that bad. I don't think we will get anyone in window as the players we have can be as good as the Charlton away so club will hope for that performance level even if it takes two seasons

[RedArmy]

54 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Two weeks 👍

That’s when he’s back or that’s how long he’s back for? 

[die Mannyschaft]

27 minutes ago, Turkish said:

That game was crying out for Damion Downs 

Have we got any tall players in U21s who are forwards and can run plus head the ball?

[die Mannyschaft]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

If we don't look to sign a keeper or a CF then we are basically giving up this season. Imagine how many assists Fellows and Scienza would have if we had a proper striker we could at least bring off the bench. 

Won't happen as modern football is all about stats and potential stats in next game. 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

21 minutes ago, Appy said:

Was Lampard getting much stick from the saints fans? I’m in block 42 and probably heard 1, maybe 2 chants at him, hardly warranted that weird reaction. 

No, not really. Couple of tame chants about Gerrard. Made himself look a right tit at the end 

[tdmickey3]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

We were playing against ten men, not seven. Going two at the back against  the league leaders, even with a man advantage, would have been reckless stupidity. One decent break and we lose 2-1.

No one said 2 at the back, we only needed 2 CB,s not 3

[bangkoksaint]

It’s the hope that kills you. However we are just not very good………where are we in the table? 10th?……..probably our level. 

[Lighthouse]

8 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

No one said 2 at the back, we only needed 2 CB,s not 3

I’m confused. What number is 2, if it isn’t 2?

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

I’m confused. What number is 2, if it isn’t 2?

The 2 would mean a back 4 not a five

[Saint86]

Couldn't watch this game (the joys of grass roots kids football tournaments)... whats the verdict? A well won point against the 10men league leaders, or 2 points dropped?

[tdmickey3]

Just now, Saint86 said:

Couldn't watch this game (the joys of grass roots kids football tournaments)... whats the verdict? A well won point against the 10men league leaders, or 2 points dropped?

2 points dropped 

[LGTL]

1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

Couldn't watch this game (the joys of grass roots kids football tournaments)... whats the verdict? A well won point against the 10men league leaders, or 2 points dropped?

2 points dropped. Coventry weren’t much cop with 11 players let alone 10. 

[Sheaf Saint]

46 minutes ago, Appy said:

Was Lampard getting much stick from the saints fans? I’m in block 42 and probably heard 1, maybe 2 chants at him, hardly warranted that weird reaction. 

From what he said afterwards it was more the individual abuse he was getting from the fans behind the dugout rather than any chants.

[saints-til-i-die]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

From what he said afterwards it was more the individual abuse he was getting from the fans behind the dugout rather than any chants.

So he chooses to go over to another stand and not gesticulate and swear at those behind the dugout? Not the brightest spark is he. Never liked him.

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

From what he said afterwards it was more the individual abuse he was getting from the fans behind the dugout rather than any chants.

Somebody behind him shouted that they didn’t much care for The One Show. No need for disgusting abuse like that.

[Appy]

15 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

From what he said afterwards it was more the individual abuse he was getting from the fans behind the dugout rather than any chants.

Proper rabid lot in the Itchen centre, like Galatasaray

[dsrdorset]

Frank Lampard, is, and always has been, a complete prick. And a thick one at that. Hope he gets done by the FA for his ridiculous behaviour at the end there. Totally unnecessary. What a knob. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Can someone summarise the game for me.

How did we play? Was it close? Did we get any opportunities to win? Did we ever look like capitalising on ten men? Why was Frank Lampard a nob at the end?

[Tamesaint]

Lampard was a prick at a young age as well.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/2219148/blues-stars-fined-after-drinking-binge

He takes after his uncle. 

[lambtiss]

1 hour ago, Appy said:

Was Lampard getting much stick from the saints fans? I’m in block 42 and probably heard 1, maybe 2 chants at him, hardly warranted that weird reaction. 

You’re just a Shit Steven Gerrard was all that I heard …
 

seems fair to me

[saintant]

.

Edited 4 hours ago by saintant

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Can someone summarise the game for me.

How did we play? Was it close? Did we get any opportunities to win? Did we ever look like capitalising on ten men? Why was Frank Lampard a nob at the end?

Coventry were the better side in the first half although we had two good chances that were spurned by AA and Scienza. Nearing half time Manning had a chance to boot the ball into row Z but took the daft option of keeping the ball on the pitch even though he had no pass on - the ball went to a Coventry player and they then played it around got a cross in to an unmarked player who headed home. We'd been poor to be fair but the game changed just after half time when a Cov player went in late and dangerously on Wellington and picked up a deserved red card. We dominated the rest of the game and Wood equalised with a header. Despite a man advantage we didn't really look like getting a winner. Draw was fair result. Lampard got some abuse from the fans at the end and decided to react even though he should know better - there was some handbags but nothing serious. Not a great spectacle - Scienza was our best player by a long way. 

[lambtiss]

8 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Can someone summarise the game for me.

How did we play? Was it close? Did we get any opportunities to win? Did we ever look like capitalising on ten men? Why was Frank Lampard a nob at the end?

I thought we looked pretty ordinary until they went down to 10 men after a justified red. Too much slow passing around the back and in midfield with the only apparent attacking intent coming from Scienza. 

Their goal was textbook Saints.

1) Bad defending and give the ball away .. Tick (Manning)

2) Winger given too much time to cross the ball .. Tick (Manning out of position)

3) Soft header from an unmarked player in the 6 yard box .. Tick (centre backs)

We deserved the equaliser with a rally after they went down to 10 men.

For the remaining 30-40 minutes we huffed and puffed but lacked a cutting edge with Scienza again being the only creative influencer. 
From about 20 minutes out to the end I didn’t feel that a winner was coming. The game was crying out for a strong , battling number 9 to put their defence and keeper under pressure but we got Cameron Archer who did absolutely diddly squat.

The nearest we got to an equaliser was after a tantalising bit of play from Scienza to get to the goal line and put a perfect ball across the penalty box which cut their keeper out, but nobody was there for the needed tap in, which we have seen too many times.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I saw the first half and the highlights of the second. 

Happy to see a settled side. Tonda has settled on his system, and the players have to show themselves capable of getting into the side. It's not the best of possible set ups, but he's working with the squad SR have left him with.

Fraser hadn't worked out, and Wellington was the best option available there. We do miss Fellows though from the start, and it robs us of an important attacking outlet. 

Along with the settled approach, other sides know to stop that midfield ball from the back, and put pressure on Scienza. Even so, Scienza did lots of good things today, and we had opportunities. 

We overplayed around the back. Fine when we invited the press. But wasted when our midfield didn't show up to collect it, resulting in a number of incomplete passes.

Baz's distribution used to be a lot better. Don't know if this is just a dip, or if he needs to definite outlets a regimented RussBall system provided. 

Manning was nowhere for their goal. Quarshie could have tried to close down that space, or at least given less time to pick out the cross. But I do understand that it was Manning's fault for not being anywhere near where he should have been. 

We got an equaliser with a nice header. But our usual second half drop off, combined with our lack of cohesion when we make changes meant we couldn't get a winner. So, it feels like a missed opportunity.

Going into Christmas 4 points off the playoffs, and our form dropping a little, under another SR season.

[S-Clarke]

That wasn't a great showing really. Coventry were makeshift in a number of places and they still looked better than us for most of that 1st half, much more organised and you could see an actual pattern in their approach and what they're trying to do. They play with a purpose.

The red card totally changed their approach, as expected. That made the second half look more 'one sided' in terms of the context of the game as they sat back a bit more, but we didn't push them at all. We didn't have them on the ropes, we didn't pen them in, we didn't cause their CB's - who haven't played all season - any issues what so ever. It was really poor. 

There has been a gradual return to the pass backwards, pass sideways and around the back four in recent weeks. I don't think I'm the only one seeing that. I understand what doing it can give you, draw them on, move it quick and break the press...but you need to be very accurate and have very good players to do that regularly, of which we don't have. So it might work once every now and then, but doing it when the oppo is clearly onto it (Cov pressed heavy) seemed a bit daft. We played ourselves into 2 or 3 issues just from self inflicted pain. Their goal came from the insistence that Manning kept the ball in play rather than lofted it out of touch to settle the team down. Tonda needs more to his game, or should I say the club - as this feels more and more club directed whenever I see it.

I also think teams have sussed Janders role in our side and are giving him special attention - I saw it against WBA (second half), and against Norwich. Stick players around him, don't leave him in space, don't let him burst. It often leaves Downes as the free CM available for the pass. It removes all of that fluidity in our side as it was Jander who broke the lines and enabled us to drive. Teams are safer leaving Downes free as all he will do is pass it backwards, teams know there is no danger if Downes gets the ball.

A draw is a draw I guess, and in the context of all the other results, it doesn't cause us any real problems in the bigger picture. 

I'm still not entirely convinced by us though and I believe we just lived through a purple patch, a so-called manager bounce as they call it, and now we're settling back into our baseline. We'll be in the market for a new manager come May.

[die Mannyschaft]

11 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

That wasn't a great showing really. Coventry were makeshift in a number of places and they still looked better than us for most of that 1st half, much more organised and you could see an actual pattern in their approach and what they're trying to do. They play with a purpose.

The red card totally changed their approach, as expected. That made the second half look more 'one sided' in terms of the context of the game as they sat back a bit more, but we didn't push them at all. We didn't have them on the ropes, we didn't pen them in, we didn't cause their CB's - who haven't played all season - any issues what so ever. It was really poor. 

There has been a gradual return to the pass backwards, pass sideways and around the back four in recent weeks. I don't think I'm the only one seeing that. I understand what doing it can give you, draw them on, move it quick and break the press...but you need to be very accurate and have very good players to do that regularly, of which we don't have. So it might work once every now and then, but doing it when the oppo is clearly onto it (Cov pressed heavy) seemed a bit daft. We played ourselves into 2 or 3 issues just from self inflicted pain. Their goal came from the insistence that Manning kept the ball in play rather than lofted it out of touch to settle the team down. Tonda needs more to his game, or should I say the club - as this feels more and more club directed whenever I see it.

I also think teams have sussed Janders role in our side and are giving him special attention - I saw it against WBA (second half), and against Norwich. Stick players around him, don't leave him in space, don't let him burst. It often leaves Downes as the free CM available for the pass. It removes all of that fluidity in our side as it was Jander who broke the lines and enabled us to drive. Teams are safer leaving Downes free as all he will do is pass it backwards, teams know there is no danger if Downes gets the ball.

A draw is a draw I guess, and in the context of all the other results, it doesn't cause us any real problems in the bigger picture. 

I'm still not entirely convinced by us though and I believe we just lived through a purple patch, a so-called manager bounce as they call it, and now we're settling back into our baseline. We'll be in the market for a new manager come May.

I counted about 9 times we were on the edge of box or 1m in and instead of shooting into top corner which isn't difficult as they practiced it in warm up the ball goes back to centre stop the left wing, right wing etc. Apart from Scienza we need to shoot quickly. We have gone back to flat walking sideways which doesn't help in motivating the crowd. A lot of fans looked bored. 

[coalman]

13 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

There has been a gradual return to the pass backwards, pass sideways and around the back four in recent weeks. I don't think I'm the only one seeing that. I understand what doing it can give you, draw them on, move it quick and break the press...but you need to be very accurate and have very good players to do that regularly, of which we don't have. So it might work once every now and then, but doing it when the oppo is clearly onto it (Cov pressed heavy) seemed a bit daft. We played ourselves into 2 or 3 issues just from self inflicted pain. Their goal came from the insistence that Manning kept the ball in play rather than lofted it out of touch to settle the team down. Tonda needs more to his game, or should I say the club - as this feels more and more club directed whenever I see it.

So much this. Worse than that it's clear where the ball is going next before it even reaches the player. You see other teams starting to press where the next pass is going before the ball arrives, is controlled painfully slowly and then inched towards its destination. We're just putting players under pressure in the wrong bits of the pitch. At no point does it look like we'll pass past the players we're supposedly drawing into our trap.

[die Mannyschaft]

45 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

You’re just a Shit Steven Gerrard was all that I heard …
 

seems fair to me

In 43 and didn't hear anything. There was more barrcking of Saints players who have forgot RM is not in the dugout but continue to play side to side.