Middlesbrough 4-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Toussaint said:

It’s my suspicion that’s why we find it so difficult to appoint anyone, no self respecting manager is going to concede so much autonomy to the overlords. 

Board decision - if you tell a manager you will back him and can root out the problems then a good manager would be happy with that

[pingpong]

21 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Although at least even Lighthouse has stopped the Koolaid around Gavin at last. Welcome to the fold.

Ping Pong, Jordy’s mate, still at it.

Don't know who Jordy is (star trek visor guy?) but the stats are undeniable, no other goalkeeper in the division has had to face more clear chances than baz has - we give players clear shots from in and around the 6 yard box that other teams don't. 

[Mboto Gorge]

36 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Tonda Eckert: "I think that we saw two games in the end. I think we played one game until 55 minutes, and we played another game after. We had more than enough chances to go up, and then I agree with you, the second part of the game was not good enough

He’s said this? Any comments as to the ridiculously weak and frail mentality in this squad and why we can never come on strong late in games? 3 games ago he said we didn’t have enough points. Wonder if he’s further commented on that being that we are now closer to the bottom 3

[Verwood Saint]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

To be fair to SR, he had to be appointed after the run he had. However, he also needed to be on a very short leash.

Why? Flash and pan come to mind! Everything SR do is reactive and short term despite the pretence of developing some sort of master plan. They are not serious people. Dragan needs to properly get a grip and appoint a genuine football professional, if he can attract one. That, or get out…

[James]

1 minute ago, Verwood Saint said:

Why? Flash and pan come to mind! Everything SR do is reactive and short term despite the pretence of developing some sort of master plan. They are not serious people. Dragan needs to properly get a grip and appoint a genuine football professional, if he can attract one. That, or get out…

Exactly. We didn’t “have” to do anything, especially not jump into appointing a manager with literally no experience. 

[Andy Hill]

Doncaster must be thinking that we are there for the taking. Having conceded 4 with 3 at the back then maybe we should try 4 or even 5 there ?!

[qwertyell]

18 minutes ago, manji said:

still going with the , best we don’t go up this season ( although that’s not exactly incredible foresight) and promoted next season better stronger. I’m not arguing with you BTW. But what makes you say we aren’t going to have more money/better players ?

This season is our best chance of going up for a while, IMHO. It's not a strong Championship at all.

Next season looks like Wolves, West Ham, Burnley will be in it, along with a Leicester who will presumably have served their points penalty and be back on fairly even financial ground. 

Making such a balls up of this campaign probably consigns us to the Championship for a number of years. 

[James]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you replaced Bazunu with an average League 1 keeper, then since Tonda took over we'd have:

• Beaten Millwall 2-1, as he'd have saved the first and third
• Beaten Norwich 1-0, as he'd have saved the first at his near post and come out and caught the second
• Drawn 1-1 at Oxford as their winner was nowhere near the keeper
• Beaten Birmingham 1-0, as he wouldn't have flapped at that looping header.
• Lost 1-0 today but that's our only defeat and the GD would be much better than after a 4-0.

 

That gives us a record of P13 W9 D3 L1. 30 points from 13 games, which is easily promotion form. We've got just under two weeks to get the Peretz deal ironed out, then things are going to start looking a lot better.

If you genuinely believe Peretz is going to spark a charge up the table then I’m slightly jealous of you for having such optimism…

[Willo of Whiteley]

Changed formation five minutes from the end at 4-0 down.

Fucking helmet.

 

[S-Clarke]

23 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you replaced Bazunu with an average League 1 keeper, then since Tonda took over we'd have:

• Beaten Millwall 2-1, as he'd have saved the first and third
• Beaten Norwich 1-0, as he'd have saved the first at his near post and come out and caught the second
• Drawn 1-1 at Oxford as their winner was nowhere near the keeper
• Beaten Birmingham 1-0, as he wouldn't have flapped at that looping header.
• Lost 1-0 today but that's our only defeat and the GD would be much better than after a 4-0.

 

That gives us a record of P13 W9 D3 L1. 30 points from 13 games, which is easily promotion form. We've got just under two weeks to get the Peretz deal ironed out, then things are going to start looking a lot better.

You can only be trolling at this point, and that takes some going as a mod - credit for that.

You were one of the 'Bazunu is fine for the Championship' brigade by the way. Just saying.

[Mboto Gorge]

4 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Changed formation five minutes from the end at 4-0 down.

Fucking helmet.

 

Prime Russ in motion - “it’s not the system”. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

21 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I was expecting a response like that. It's absolute bollocks.

Of course it is - nothing was changed until the 85th minute. Even then he brought on two strikers who have had the square root of fuck all match minutes this season and have scored how many goals between them? The midfield was still being overrun anyway so it was all a pretty pointless exercise.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

You can only be trolling at this point, and that takes some going as a mod - credit for that.

You were one of the 'Bazunu is fine for the Championship' brigade by the way. Just saying.

Yes he was and he has been consistent about it for ages. Also said we didn't need a striker other than Downs in the summer.

[Sheaf Saint]

17 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Who has stolen Lighthouse and what have they have done with him!

I think he might have posted that using the wrong login 🤨

[DT]

WE need to sack this guy we should never have appointed in the first place but who most of the fanbase thought deserved the job even though it was just post-Will Still bounce as being the previous worst manager we have ever had. Now superceded. Club is rotten all the way through. So fed up with it. Hateful squad, entitled players, inept managers and a board who appoint yes men as 'they know best how to reinvent football'.

Rasmus Ankersson - please FUCK OFFerson

[Fabrice29]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes he was and he has been consistent about it for ages. Also said we didn't need a striker other than Downs in the summer.

Which would be true if Downs was good/available huh.

Edited Sunday at 18:42 by Fabrice29

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Which would be true if Downs was good huh.

No, because it would have still left us with Cameron Archer and Ross Stewart - and the later couldn't be relied on, so we needed 2 strikers in the summer. That was pretty obvious to anyone with eyes.

[Willo of Whiteley]

He isn’t going to be sacked, be realistic 

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

No, because it would have still left us with Cameron Archer and Ross Stewart - and the later couldn't be relied on, so we needed 2 strikers in the summer. That was pretty obvious to anyone with eyes.

And Armstrong. We only needed 1 they just had to be reliable.

[coalman]

Just now, Willo of Whiteley said:

He isn’t going to be sacked, be realistic 

You mean he isn't going to be sacked while any successor might have a realistic chance of turning things around.

[James]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

No, because it would have still left us with Cameron Archer and Ross Stewart - and the later couldn't be relied on, so we needed 2 strikers in the summer. That was pretty obvious to anyone with eyes.

Pair that with the fact that Downs being “good” was a pretty big stretch at the time. He’s been laughably bad which nobody predicted but even best case nobody was expecting him to come in and score enough goals to promote us. He’s a project, probably an unsalvagable one at this point, and it was obvious he wasn’t enough on his own. The fact he was a Spors priority signing speaks volumes.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

And Armstrong. We only needed 1 they just had to be reliable.

Armstrong isn't a striker, he's a wide forward - or an inverted forward in certain setups. He has never been consistently any good in a central position.

We needed a proven CF to start the season, with Archer and Downs providing cover or alternative options.  Archer playing alongside someone proven could have also been fruitful, but we'll never know.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Which would be true if Downs was good/available huh.

That's not true because we needed another striker regardless but it was already clear that Downs wasn't up to the required standard before the window closed.

[derry]

Time after time we played short passes out from the back, we then either lost the ball or gave it away or worse still passed it back and lost it in our own half. Playing that way is garbage. The smartarse that advocates this is transparently an idiot.

Playing this way deprives the forwards of the ball and if we do look like breaking, guarantees that we are outnumbered up front. If Ekhert really wants to know why we are so vulnerable he only has to look at the back five? Three centre backs and no leadership with most of the time non-existent full backs, a lightweight midfield outnumbered and two wingers mostly playing  anywhere but, plus a lone small target man against teams given the time to consolidate in numbers because of our slow play.

 

[coalman]

1 minute ago, derry said:

Time after time we played short passes out from the back, we then either lost the ball or gave it away or worse still passed it back and lost it in our own half. Playing that way is garbage. The smartarse that advocates this is transparently an idiot.

Playing this way deprives the forwards of the ball and if we do look like breaking, guarantees that we are outnumbered up front. If Ekhert really wants to know why we are so vulnerable he only has to look at the back five? Three centre backs and no leadership with most of the time non-existent full backs, a lightweight midfield outnumbered and two wingers mostly playing  anywhere but, plus a lone small target man against teams given the time to consolidate in numbers because of our slow play.

 

Indeed.

We take risks at the wrong end of the pitch and play it safe at the wrong end of the pitch. As someone noted last season it's high risk no reward football.

[Oisin]

15 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you replaced Bazunu with an average League 1 keeper, then since Tonda took over we'd have:

• Beaten Millwall 2-1, as he'd have saved the first and third
• Beaten Norwich 1-0, as he'd have saved the first at his near post and come out and caught the second
• Drawn 1-1 at Oxford as their winner was nowhere near the keeper
• Beaten Birmingham 1-0, as he wouldn't have flapped at that looping header.
• Lost 1-0 today but that's our only defeat and the GD would be much better than after a 4-0.

 

That gives us a record of P13 W9 D3 L1. 30 points from 13 games, which is easily promotion form. We've got just under two weeks to get the Peretz deal ironed out, then things are going to start looking a lot better.

Even if I were to agree with the above optimistic assessment, the point you seem to be missing is that every decision SR make is a bad one. If we do replace Bazunu, are you actually and genuinely confident it’ll be for a better player? Cos I’m not. They’ve had 4 years to resolve the same issues - keeper, defensive leader, striker, manager, coaches, players with character. We’ve actually regressed with all aspects of the footballing operation, spunking millions on failed players and managers in the process.

With less Money to spend, against clubs with higher budgets next season (which we’re not competing against this year), less of a budget and total ineptitude in every decision making position in the club, it stands to reason we’ll be in a worse position next year to this. And we’re currently closer to relegation than promotion.

We’re a shambles, and all the evidence points to us getting worse, not better.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I don’t believe there’s one single neat reason things are so bad, but the reasons are co-dependent.

1. Successive failure to sustain squad quality over many seasons, while….

2. Mandating successive Managers to adopt a specific method of play (possession football), while…

3. Recruiting and selecting players that are sub-standard in terms of the mandated method(s) of play, while…

4. Attempting to coach players who fail to deliver sustained performance levels because they’re simply not good enough, which in turn leads to player discontent and mutiny against the Manager of the moment.

Thats my take on the shambles. Every single one of those issues needs to be addressed to get us out of the rut we’re in and the evidence strongly suggests SR/Spors/SFC Management have no ability to sort things out. With all of those issues outstanding, the only reason for replacing Tonda in my view is if he cannot get a song out of a team that has shed the likes of Stephens, Wood, Bazunu, Manning, Downes, Stewart and Archer.

[OneMrsWallace]

TE saying the first goal changed everything sums it up for me. Here's news. It doesn't fucking have to. But with us, it does nearly everytime, exception of Birmingham. He sounded as if he was accepting that going one down means the game is practically over. We don't score, they do, so that's it, boo hoo. No wonder the players don't give a shit. We need leaders, experience and players that can shithouse when necessary in this league. We have none of that. They're weak physically and weak minded with a now timid manager. Eckhert isn't solving this any time soon. What a mess. 

[Midfield_General]

Alright lads

I’ve been out this afternoon, how did it go? 

[sambosa75]

Not working is it?  Clearly this club needs a strong, experienced leader in charge to stamp out a few clearly hard held and misguided beliefs in terms of club philosophy. 
 

if Solak is in any way concerned about getting any kind of return from his investment in the club he needs to drop SR like a bad habit.  Start making some straight forward common sense decisions and accept that whatever approach SR have been trying to impose of the club/group is patently not working.

[Toadhall Saint]

2 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Alright lads

I’ve been out this afternoon, how did it go? 

Ok go 50 mins but then imploded. 

[Saint Pete]

17 minutes ago, OneMrsWallace said:

TE saying the first goal changed everything sums it up for me. Here's news. It doesn't fucking have to. But with us, it does nearly everytime, exception of Birmingham. He sounded as if he was accepting that going one down means the game is practically over. We don't score, they do, so that's it, boo hoo. No wonder the players don't give a shit. We need leaders, experience and players that can shithouse when necessary in this league. We have none of that. They're weak physically and weak minded with a now timid manager. Eckhert isn't solving this any time soon. What a mess. 

Totally agree. These words are from a manager who is not a man who knows how to win or has enough desire to win. It's why you should employ people on the basis of evidence that they can perform the role you are employing them for, not just blind faith/hope based on players talking them up or a few games short term results. My feeling is that SR's main fault is their arrogance that they are more important than any manager/employee appointments, they think their philosophy is so good it will do the job and managers and players can come and go with no consequences! 

[coalman]

4 minutes ago, Saint Pete said:

Totally agree. These words are from a manager who is not a man who knows how to win or has enough desire to win. It's why you should employ people on the basis of evidence that they can perform the role you are employing them for, not just blind faith/hope based on players talking them up or a few games short term results. My feeling is that SR's main fault is their arrogance that they are more important than any manager/employee appointments, they think their philosophy is so good it will do the job and managers and players can come and go with no consequences! 

One of the first indicators of incompetence in any leadership group is the belief that people are freely interchangeable.

Edited Sunday at 19:26 by coalman

[Sheaf Saint]

22 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Ok go 50 mins but then imploded. 

It wasn't even really OK though was it. After a bright first few minutes, Boro had us pegged back for the next half an hour and pressed us into constant mistakes while trying to play around them. 

It was only about the last 15 mins of the first half that we played OK, and had better chances while never being dominant.

[SW11_Saint]

1 hour ago, manji said:

I’m still going with the , best we don’t go up this season ( although that’s not exactly incredible foresight) and promoted next season better stronger. I’m not arguing with you BTW. But what makes you say we aren’t going to have more money/better players ?
 

I’m trying to be pragmatic. I want to believe we have a plan. The club does want to get promoted, we have a vision.
Anyone who reads is there’s plenty of understandably negative comments so just hear me out.
Maybe because I’m older from an era where fans didn’t expect instant results. I can remember going away to Everton ( and that was a lively afternoon ) getting thrashed 8-0 the following Saturday stuffing Boro 4-0. Obviously no social media and instant fan reaction but I don’t remember the fans getting hysterical. It was what the way things were. 

I tend to agree, though next season could be much harder - West Ham, Burnley, Wolves, likely a stronger Birmingham & Sheff Utd. No guarantees at all. If we don’t get the manager & investment right we won’t be moving anywhere (well, certainly not upwards). 

[madge]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

We're having a sh*t season but this is getting a bit hysterical. It's only two years since we did get promoted, without Martin or Bazunu next season we'll comfortably be in the hunt for the top six.

Really.. doubt it it wolves, burnley and possibly West Ham in the mix.. this was our chance this season and the twats fecked it 

[Gloucester Saint]

47 minutes ago, OneMrsWallace said:

TE saying the first goal changed everything sums it up for me. Here's news. It doesn't fucking have to. But with us, it does nearly everytime, exception of Birmingham. He sounded as if he was accepting that going one down means the game is practically over. We don't score, they do, so that's it, boo hoo. No wonder the players don't give a shit. We need leaders, experience and players that can shithouse when necessary in this league. We have none of that. They're weak physically and weak minded with a now timid manager. Eckhert isn't solving this any time soon. What a mess. 

Tonda doesn’t seem to have grasped that the opposition are allowed to open the scoring, and given Rasmus’s appalling formation and playing style means frequently they will. But also, Southampton Football Club are permitted within the rules to play with three midfielders or two strikers to get back into the game. 

[SW11_Saint]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

If you replaced Bazunu with an average League 1 keeper, then since Tonda took over we'd have:

• Beaten Millwall 2-1, as he'd have saved the first and third
• Beaten Norwich 1-0, as he'd have saved the first at his near post and come out and caught the second
• Drawn 1-1 at Oxford as their winner was nowhere near the keeper
• Beaten Birmingham 1-0, as he wouldn't have flapped at that looping header.
• Lost 1-0 today but that's our only defeat and the GD would be much better than after a 4-0.

 

That gives us a record of P13 W9 D3 L1. 30 points from 13 games, which is easily promotion form. We've got just under two weeks to get the Peretz deal ironed out, then things are going to start looking a lot better.

Butterfly effect. Absolute nonsense. 

[Swaythling Saint]

Worrying signs and such a poor performance. Like others have alluded to, we have to go up this season because next season will be tougher.  Can only hope for a Rickie/MLT type signing in January 

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, Swaythling Saint said:

Worrying signs and such a poor performance. Like others have alluded to, we have to go up this season because next season will be tougher.  Can only hope for a Rickie/MLT type signing in January 

The only way this turns around is SR selling up. We won’t go up this season and quite possible getting sucked into the bottom three like the form slump in 07/08 especially with another heavy defeat at Fratton. 

[Football Special]

 

[Draino76]

I'm happy to do down.  2 leagues. Get them out and we can have fun again. 

Edited Sunday at 20:14 by Draino76

[Osvaldorama]

Even madder part of Tonda’s comments..

 

We were fucking awful first half as well. We had those glaring misses, but we were by no means good. 
 

To cling to the fact that it was a game of two halves or whatever is genuinely fucking pathetic 
 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, Draino76 said:

I'm happy to do down.  2 leagues. Get them out and we can have fun again. 

I’m up for it. 

[SaintsBarry74]

4 minutes ago, Draino76 said:

I'm happy to do down.  2 leagues. Get them out and we can have fun again. 

We'd still have the worst goalkeeper in the league then.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

We'd still have the worst goalkeeper in the league then.

Not if SR don’t give the stealing prick another contract.

[Pamplemousse]

1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said:

I tend to agree, though next season could be much harder - West Ham, Burnley, Wolves, likely a stronger Birmingham & Sheff Utd. No guarantees at all. If we don’t get the manager & investment right we won’t be moving anywhere (well, certainly not upwards). 

West Ham are fucked financially if they go down. Their transfer strategy has been awful.

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

West Ham are fucked financially if they go down. Their transfer strategy has been awful.

Imagine that arena with 20k watching them play Bristol City. Their fans are making a much better go at ousting Sullivan than we are Rasmus. Those red cards yesterday were as great as their players’ performance terrible.

🎵Matty Fernandes he’ll bring the drop for you 🎵 

 

Edited Sunday at 20:54 by Gloucester Saint

[macca155]

Oh sweet Jesus, just landed, having a week away, and I've just seen the score. What on earth is going on. I know we all have our own culprits, pretty unanimous on some, but they aren't that bad.

That is a truly disgraceful performance. Major shift in attitude required. 

Goalkeeper required asap,  but also a DoF to act as overlord to Tonda. He isn't coping clearly. This is just panic stations.

I shudder to think what Pompey will do to us on their manor. They are almost as shite as Saints, but they'll expose the weaknesses just like everyone else.

I suspect SR are sharpening the knives before this reflects on them.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, macca155 said:

Oh sweet Jesus, just landed, having a week away, and I've just seen the score. What on earth is going on. I know we all have our own culprits, pretty unanimous on some, but they aren't that bad.

That is a truly disgraceful performance. Major shift in attitude required. 

Goalkeeper required asap,  but also a DoF to act as overlord to Tonda. He isn't coping clearly. This is just panic stations.

I shudder to think what Pompey will do to us on their manor. They are almost as shite as Saints, but they'll expose the weaknesses just like everyone else.

I suspect SR are sharpening the knives before this reflects on them.

Agree with all of that but we need to sharpen our knives on SR. Get out of our Club as the regular song. There has to be a compete break with Martinball and Rasmus, look at Rangers and Rohl.