Prem ready?

[Saint Fan CaM]

After posting on another thread this morning, I got to thinking about the unlikely scenario of us getting into a play-off place and actually winning the final. What players are good enough to remain as a first team choice and so how many new players would be required in-bound? My initial thoughts are…

GK - Rambo back (if possible) or new GK, Peretz 2nd choice

CB - 2-3 new players required with THB retained as back-up

FB - with decent CB’s there’s a chance that Bree and Welington could suffice, however I think we’d need another FB capable of both sides

DM - 2 new players required. Downes not good enough and Charles/Jander only OK as backup.

AM - Scienza, Fellows and Azaz could be OK, but we’d need at least one more decent player that could operate across the field.

Striker - at least 2 new players required - none of the current players are good enough.

 

So for my money that’s 9 new players required - almost an entire team - and I don’t think Spors or SR have what it takes to make that happen. And if we don’t go up this year (unlikely), the chasm in player quality is only going to get bigger, particularly as SR start selling off our best players (history tells us that’s inevitable).

[Jack]

We’d be a million miles off it, from the boardroom to the manager, coaches, players and probably the tea lady. 
 

That said, Sunderland were shite in the Championship and went up via the playoffs with a points total we could achieve. They just recruited very well and went for it, and it’s worked. Leeds too. Shows that the Prem isn’t as much of a closed shop as it looked the last couple of years. I just wouldn’t trust the jokers we’ve got in charge to have the first idea what’s required to be competitive 

[Baird of the land]

In unlikely world of getting promoted

THB would still be first choice

Think CM's are competitive with room to develop, certainly not an area to priortise limited resources on.

Think focusing on trying to get 5 good additions (something like RB, LB, CB, AM, S)

 

 

[badgerx16]

In the remote possibility that we go up, I cannot see Tonda keeping us there.

[Sarnia Cherie]

13 minutes ago, Jack said:

We’d be a million miles off it, from the boardroom to the manager, coaches, players and probably the tea lady. 
 

That said, Sunderland were shite in the Championship and went up via the playoffs with a points total we could achieve. They just recruited very well and went for it, and it’s worked. Leeds too. Shows that the Prem isn’t as much of a closed shop as it looked the last couple of years. I just wouldn’t trust the jokers we’ve got in charge to have the first idea what’s required to be competitive 

Well said. SR will hold us back on all levels. Not much prospect of anything all the time they are in charge. 

[Harry_SFC]

Yeah, probably 9 new players for the starting 11. We won't be going up though so the club needn't worry about it. 

[sandwichsaint]

Ramsdale and Scienza are PL starting quality and prob Charles too. THB, Jander, Fellowes squad level. In an ideal world we would go up and sign ten players better than this. In the real world we are staying in Stoke, Swansea, Blackburn territory for the foreseeable.

[franniesTache]

If we go up we'll be absolutely fine, the gap between the championship and premier league isn't huge and all of our players are good because we signed them. Obviously you're all falling into the trap of using your eyes to watch football instead of trusting the data

[stfrancisofbenali]

49 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

In the remote possibility that we go up, I cannot see Tonda keeping us there.

A new manager would be the first name on the shopping list.

[stfrancisofbenali]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

After posting on another thread this morning, I got to thinking about the unlikely scenario of us getting into a play-off place and actually winning the final. What players are good enough to remain as a first team choice and so how many new players would be required in-bound? My initial thoughts are…

GK - Rambo back (if possible) or new GK, Peretz 2nd choice

CB - 2-3 new players required with THB retained as back-up

FB - with decent CB’s there’s a chance that Bree and Welington could suffice, however I think we’d need another FB capable of both sides

DM - 2 new players required. Downes not good enough and Charles/Jander only OK as backup.

AM - Scienza, Fellows and Azaz could be OK, but we’d need at least one more decent player that could operate across the field.

Striker - at least 2 new players required - none of the current players are good enough.

 

So for my money that’s 9 new players required - almost an entire team - and I don’t think Spors or SR have what it takes to make that happen. And if we don’t go up this year (unlikely), the chasm in player quality is only going to get bigger, particularly as SR start selling off our best players (history tells us that’s inevitable).

Azaz can be brilliant at this level but would be eaten alive in the PL. The physicality and speed would see him retreat into his shell, as we've seen in several games this season at a much lower level.

[stfrancisofbenali]

49 minutes ago, sandwichsaint said:

Ramsdale and Scienza are PL starting quality and prob Charles too. THB, Jander, Fellowes squad level. In an ideal world we would go up and sign ten players better than this. In the real world we are staying in Stoke, Swansea, Blackburn territory for the foreseeable.

I also think that Scienza would come alive at Wembley, so in the unlikely (but not impossible) event of us getting there, we would win it.

[Dman]

1 hour ago, sandwichsaint said:

Ramsdale and Scienza are PL starting quality and prob Charles too. THB, Jander, Fellowes squad level. In an ideal world we would go up and sign ten players better than this. In the real world we are staying in Stoke, Swansea, Blackburn territory for the foreseeable.

Given hes our only threat, I personally think Scienza would be isolated out of the game in the PL, where the level of full backs and defence in general is so much higher. 

We're a million miles off having a side that can compete at the top level - we'd need to spend 100m+ and spend it well to have a chance... or accept defeat and just play orgainsed and compact and hope to nick enough points to stay up. 

From the players we have on our books, I'd likely only want to keep; 

Ramsdale, THB, Wellington, Scienza as your solid PL ready players.

With Jander, Fellows, Charles, Peretz, Stewart, Robinson, Azaz, Bree, Quarshie, Bragg, Sesay, as your squad players, whom obviously some of which will start. 

We'd essentially need a new player in every position throughout the spin of the squad. 

The most important thing we could do is sign leaders. Some no thrills but experienced PL players who are ready for a dog fight and allow you to play the luxury players such as Scienza and Azaz etc. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Dman

[sledger]

ah yes but think of the parachute payments,they are so important.

fact is the only clubs that stay up are the ones who disregard FFP

[SNSUN]

GK - Ramsdale/Peretz - assuming Ramsdale stays. 

RB - New first choice/Bree/Roeslev

LB - New first choice/Welington

CB - New CB/New CB/THB (if not sold), Quarshie (but Stephens and Wood will most likely still be here for our Premier League sins)

CM - New first choice big shit house/Jander/Charles/Downes/Bragg

AM - New First choice, possibly even 2/Scienza/Azaz/Robinson/Matsuki/Fellows

Str - New front line needed completely. x3

 

There would be frigging huge work to do and while not all SR's recent transfer doings have been bad, I still think it would be beyond them to get it all right. At the very least we'd need both full backs strengthened, probably 2 CBs, at least one CM, probably 2 AMs/wingers and 2 if not 3 strikers. That's 10 players before we even think about anyone being sold, and that's if all 10 players are hits. Forest signed a shit load (was it 30?) the year they went up and it worked for them but they largely bought so many in the hope that at least 7 or 8 would be good signings. Sunderland brought in 18 (part funded by the sale of Jobe Bellingham but they massively spent compared to what they received) to get to where they are. To compete in the Prem you really have to spend spend spend and spend it well. Then, if you're lucky enough to stay up, you need to spend some more. I just don't think we're the club to do that. Certainly not under SR.

That said, all SR will want from promotion, if there is little chance of us staying there, are the parachute payments. Every little helps and all that. But anyway even if we do finish in the play-offs somehow I don't think we'll win them, unless somehow our late season form is exceptional and Larin, Stewart or Archer somehow hit form.

[saintwbu]

Personally think Fellows is the most likely of our current squad to have a good Prem career - Only 22, 6 foot and rapid with the ability to carry the ball forward. He needs some work, but i’d be surprised if he’s not a steady PL player at a mid table club. I love Scienza, but I get Anthony Knockaert vibes with him, outstanding in the Championship but maybe physically wouldn’t cope with the top flight.

[SaintTex]

so umm. yeah... reading this thread, if by some miracle we got promoted this season, it would be one year in the top flight and right back down again.

i dont thinks SR has the acumen or resources to refresh the squad with players and a manager in such a short time that could keep us up.

Was it Brentford that did something similar a few years back? Basically cut loose the entire promoted squad during the summer and bought all new players? Surprised that worked, odds seemed against it.

[franniesTache]

13 minutes ago, SaintTex said:

so umm. yeah... reading this thread, if by some miracle we got promoted this season, it would be one year in the top flight and right back down again.

i dont thinks SR has the acumen or resources to refresh the squad with players and a manager in such a short time that could keep us up.

Was it Brentford that did something similar a few years back? Basically cut loose the entire promoted squad during the summer and bought all new players? Surprised that worked, odds seemed against it.

With Sport Republic's track record cutting loose the entire squad and replacing them would see us go down with zero points and the worst goal difference ever 

[SNSUN]

5 minutes ago, SaintTex said:

so umm. yeah... reading this thread, if by some miracle we got promoted this season, it would be one year in the top flight and right back down again.

i dont thinks SR has the acumen or resources to refresh the squad with players and a manager in such a short time that could keep us up.

Was it Brentford that did something similar a few years back? Basically cut loose the entire promoted squad during the summer and bought all new players? Surprised that worked, odds seemed against it.

Not sure it was Brentford - they signed a few players when they went up but they also had a good spine in place - plus Raya, a good keeper that has obviously gone on to bigger things, Norgaard likewise, a goalscoring powerhouse in Toney as well as Mbuemo who chipped in with a few. And they added the risky signing of Eriksen who was excellent for the latter half of that season and Wissa. Similar to when we went up in 2012, we luckily had players ready to step up in Lambert, Lallana, Cork, Schneiderlin and Fonte, and signed Boruc, JRod, Clyne and Davis who were Premier League ready. Then the bonus of bringing Luke Shaw through. Building a side ready for the Prem is the way to do it, then strengthen when you get there. I can't see any of the promotion contenders this year as ready - I guess Ipswich would be the most likely if they go up.

[ally_uk]

£100 million outlay+ to properly rebuild. 

[die Mannyschaft]

5 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

After posting on another thread this morning, I got to thinking about the unlikely scenario of us getting into a play-off place and actually winning the final. What players are good enough to remain as a first team choice and so how many new players would be required in-bound? My initial thoughts are…

GK - Rambo back (if possible) or new GK, Peretz 2nd choice

CB - 2-3 new players required with THB retained as back-up

FB - with decent CB’s there’s a chance that Bree and Welington could suffice, however I think we’d need another FB capable of both sides

DM - 2 new players required. Downes not good enough and Charles/Jander only OK as backup.

AM - Scienza, Fellows and Azaz could be OK, but we’d need at least one more decent player that could operate across the field.

Striker - at least 2 new players required - none of the current players are good enough.

 

So for my money that’s 9 new players required - almost an entire team - and I don’t think Spors or SR have what it takes to make that happen. And if we don’t go up this year (unlikely), the chasm in player quality is only going to get bigger, particularly as SR start selling off our best players (history tells us that’s inevitable).

Your not far off. 

Its a shame that whoever has been turning Saints players into spreadsheet robots has wasted the players development and the season.

There is only a 5%  chance of promotion as teams in top 8 keep picking up points.

There needs to be a footballing manager not a senior coach or board of directors runner and a scouting team who actual get out and watch players. Otherwise even with same team ( which is very likely ) we will again get 12 to 18 points in Prem.

I would have liked Saints to have won the leaque 1 title as looked dead cert for us to go down. And our team would be good fit for that leaque. 

Its academic who we have as the bizzar tactics, transfers, team selection, player positions will hamper any player talent development. We could get Messi or Ronaldo but they would end up getting just 2 goals and passing sideways in prem.

Big changes needed before promotion. 

 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

If we manage to get into the Premier League through the playoffs then we'll have gone on such a good run that a lot of players will have shown themselves to be a lot better than they currently look to us now. So I'm not sure we can rely evaluate it at this point

Edited 1 hour ago by Ex Lion Tamer

[spyinthesky]

I suppose the next question is, what team will we have next season in the Championship when our better players are sold?

[SNSUN]

10 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

I suppose the next question is, what team will we have next season in the Championship when our better players are sold?

Who would clubs want from a middling Championship team? THB and Ramsdale for sure. Jander and Scienza perhaps. Fellows may have admirers, Charles perhaps. Beyond that I struggle to see any of our players that wanted by other clubs. I think we definitely sell THB and Ramsdale if we don't go up, keeping everyone else remotely classed as a "jewel" and building around them would be our best bet to getting a side together for a promotion. But with people wanting Aribo, Downs, Larios, Bazunu, Fraser, BBD etc - I guess you never really know what players a team is looking for. Hell, someone could even come in and pay for Manning! 😀

[SaintsBarry74]

In the wildly optimistic scenario that we actually go up, is 12 points still the target? Or have we decided to dream bigger this time?

Not sure I want another season of breaking unwanted records and providing weekly comedy for the rest of the league.

[Gloucester Saint]

Only Premier Saints ready for right now is the Southern Premier.

[Disco Stu]

Personally, only Scienza and a returning Ramsdale look ready for the Premier League to me. Jander and Robinson could still develop into Premier League level players. Harwood-Bellis has the technical ability but he's lacking defensively for that level. He'd certainly be one of the worst starters at centre-half in the league. A decent bench warmer perhaps.

Edited 20 minutes ago by Disco Stu

[Whitey Grandad]

58 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

£100 million outlay+ to properly rebuild. 

Per player. 

[Oldandtired]

No no no no... I couldn't go through that again.