The Spygate Saga - 6 Week ban suspended for Eckert

[Badger]

1 hour ago, sfc4prem said:

I've always felt Jobi has a weird dislike of our club. Seen patches of it before during his punditry on our games. The bloke needs to move on from whatever pain Saints have caused him. If i'm honest, he's coming across as a bit of a whiney, holier-than-thou cunt.

 

1 hour ago, obelisk said:

Mr Macanuff maybe should consider his position as a so-called Independent non-Exec Director on the FA Board if he wants to publicly pontificate on matters about which he knows nothing or even to knowingly tell blatant untruths.

If he is on an FA Board then I’d question whether he should be doing any punditry, never mind giving opinions publicly as a ‘rent a gob’ .

[scumbag]

4 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Create fake outrage, then create more fake outrage when regulatory bodies fail to respond adequately to your level of initial fake outrage.  Sit back and watch the clicks increase.

"There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted.”

[Doctoroncall]

12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What more suffering would he consider acceptable?

If he thinks this was despicable, he’s going to be a busy man reviewing all the football matches and every club action, highlighting all the wrongs that can affect the outcome of the game or help a club gain an unfair advantage. 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Doctoroncall said:

If he thinks this was despicable, he’s going to be a busy man reviewing all the football matches and every club action, highlighting all the wrongs that can affect the outcome of the game or help a club gain an unfair advantage. 

He must also think other leagues are despicable. Jumped up pompous cunt. Hope he gets the boot like Winter

[disconnect]

Almost unbelievable that a sensible decision has been made and we can finally put this to bed. Of course the FA will have wanted a 3 month ban (hilariously harsh) but the (non bias) panel saw sense. There's plenty of much bigger things for the FA to worry about than this and see it's already fallen off the top stories of the BBC Football page, which Middlesborough will no doubt be devastated about. 

[Fabrice29]

44 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Who suggested he was exonerated? He didn't direct a systemic spying campaign which has been the narrative for months. They are convinced that he didn't know it was wrong or morally wrong unlike the EFL findings. There are clear and marked differences. He was an excellent witness not only because he admitted what he did but because he showed genuine contrition.

Read the posts I responded to, then you’ll see the context of mine. It’s quite clear that people seem to think that a lack of impartiality and/or the EFL taking into account the evidence used this time should have led to a different outcome…which quite obviously isn’t the case…especially given the punishment from the EFL has directly led to the suspension of the appropriate punishment this time around.

[Pamplemousse]

6 minutes ago, disconnect said:

Almost unbelievable that a sensible decision has been made and we can finally put this to bed. Of course the FA will have wanted a 3 month ban (hilariously harsh) but the (non bias) panel saw sense. There's plenty of much bigger things for the FA to worry about than this and see it's already fallen off the top stories of the BBC Football page, which Middlesborough will no doubt be devastated about. 

Don't worry, Boro will be saving all the sob stories for November in the week before we play them. It's going to be relentless

[obelisk]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

It’s quite clear that people seem to think that a lack of impartiality and/or the EFL taking into account the evidence used this time should have led to a different outcome

Those people would have good reason to come to that conclusion. The FA panel took their time to look at the actual evidence. The EFL not so independent panel were under pressure to come to a speedy conclusion without taking their time to review the evidence and precedent before inflicting a sentence that most people think was way over the top. The FA panel believed Tonda and, in legalese, put the boot into the EFL panel.

[goodymatt]

 

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, obelisk said:

Those people would have good reason to come to that conclusion. The FA panel took their time to look at the actual evidence. The EFL not so independent panel were under pressure to come to a speedy conclusion without taking their time to review the evidence and precedent before inflicting a sentence that most people think was way over the top. The FA panel believed Tonda and, in legalese, put the boot into the EFL panel.

Ffs - There is little hope sometimes isn’t there. I’ll leave it to a Solent special to explain to everyone instead or not 😂😂😂

[obelisk]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Ffs - There is little hope sometimes isn’t there. I’ll leave it to a Solent special to explain to everyone instead or not 😂😂😂

Oh dear. Some people take a different view to you. Live with it.

[tdmickey3]

5 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Oh dear. Some people take a different view to you. Live with it.

Blokes a prick, hates other peoples opinions, try and ignore

[rallyboy]

Former journalists and pundits like Winter, their jobs in this online era are to disagree with public opinion, it's how they earn a living - you show them a black wall, they'll argue that's it's white....click, click, click 🤑

So let's not be too surprised when they disagree with everything sensible.

But they're still twats.

[jrobsbigshorts]

11 hours ago, Paul Chuckle said:

These 2 are absolutely fuming about the outcome. No idea who they are but they are not happy.

" You could MAYBE argue the the club were punished when they were kicked out the play off final"  laughable 

They really go big on the outrage in the first 5mins but they do make some interesting points about Dragan , they admit Tonda and the club have shown contrition but Solaks statement is arrogant and unrepentant and I think they have a point 

I guess you don't become a Serbian billionaire media mogul without being an uncompromising character but come on Dragan shut the fuck up mate , don't piss the FA off now 

[31cc]

54 minutes ago, Badger said:

 
 

Not sure ‘class’ would be recognised in his part of the world. Skate twat.

 

 

Remedial class, perhaps.

[swedish dave]

I number myself amongst those who felt frustration at the length of time it took for the

FA to deliver their verdict, but in reading the many details listed in Alfie House's Echo article

( nice essay b.t.w. Alfie )....It's obvious that picking up the pieces of the 1000 page epistle 

from the EFL (which in itself was not entirely unbiased for several reasons) had become a

major task and it seems that lawyers on both sides finally made sense of the issue. 

Reading between the lines on other issues, it's clear that any club who carries out similar 

investigations about opponents, and did so before the 72 hour time limit, and had not been

caught,  is some sort of "spying" that is not punishable - according the EFL rulebook. 

 

There are issues; in that Bielsa's admission ..he had every other club spied on before

he was tumbled, and even Pep Guardiola is on film talking about his "investigations " into 

other clubs activities on the Continent, a practice that seemed quite acceptable to them.

 

IMHO there was / is " a grey area " amid much of the evidence that does justice to Tonda's 

case, and the suggestion not to use a longer punishment as.. " a deterrent to others " ..was  

..a wise and merciful decision in this particular case.  Other clubs who may fall foul of such

accusations - in the future - now have a severe warning that they all should heed.  

[obelisk]

4 minutes ago, jrobsbigshorts said:

come on Dragan shut the fuck up mate , don't piss the FA off now

Dragan welcomed the FA panel's work. It's the EFL that he has a problem with, along with many others.

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Former journalists and pundits like Winter, their jobs in this online era are to disagree with public opinion, it's how they earn a living - you show them a black wall, they'll argue that's it's white....click, click, click 🤑

So let's not be too surprised when they disagree with everything sensible.

But they're still twats.

Do you think we were right to go to war with Nazi Germany? Discuss

[Football Special]

30 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Don't worry, Boro will be saving all the sob stories for November in the week before we play them. It's going to be relentless

Crying Kim will switch the tears back on in pre match press conference 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Winnie played for them once on loan. They lost 4 nil, he was dropped from the squad, and sent back to his club. I'm not sure that's a history which will make him want to help Boro. That said, he'd have been impartial -  not a great career move to be anything but. 

The Bannerjee connection is a wee bit more relevant. She advised them once and I think she should have declared that and recused herself. That said, I think she only advised them once, which suggests to me that it wasn't a commercial relationship which went terribly well. 

In short, sure there were brief historical connections and common sense says they shouldn't have been there to avoid this kind of discussion. To be fair to the club, they opposed their involvement. 

That all said, our biggest issue wasn't the panel composition, but our representation and approach. We didn't co-operate, we ponied up the kid to give evidence (he didn't show up at the FA hearing, fortunately) which didn't help, we used non sports specialist counsel (who was binned for the appeal - we got it very right this time) and most significantly, we approached it seeking a fine when a sporting sanction was bloody obvious (this time we were realistic). The only sporting sanction on the table was expulsion from the play offs, so I'm not sure what choice any panel had - it was literally that or nothing that would have hurt us. 

"Played for them once" but he was with them for an extended period, at least half a season. 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Football Special said:

Crying Kim will switch the tears back on in pre match press conference 

I think there are much bigger bastards than their manager. I hate Winter and Corden far more

[23rdSaint]

29 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

Don't worry. Our fearless leader's already on the case with more likes that Winter's tweet:

 

[tdmickey3]

I find it funny that all these self promoting so called football experts have these opinions, I view them as laughable because they are just click bait for the easily led who cannot form their own opinions.

[saintant]

16 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Crying Kim will switch the tears back on in pre match press conference 

On the interview Jobi Thatsenough did they spoke to a Boro fan who claimed their shit performance at Wembley was down to how emotionally upset Crying Kim was meaning he was unable to motivate the players. Heard it all now - they get a free pass to Wembley and still try to blame us for how crap they played in such a huge game 🙂

Edited 1 hour ago by saintant

[Lord Duckhunter]

11 minutes ago, obelisk said:

The FA panel took their time to look at the actual evidence.

Until yesterday 99% of people were morning about how long the FA were taking, now they’ve not banned Tonda there’s been a 180 and the time taken is a good thing. 
 

The EFL, didn’t have that time. They weren’t judging the clubs guilt, we’d admitted it. They were just applying sporting sanctions to specific competitions in which we’d broken the rules, one of which was still going on at the time they sat.
 

The FA panel were deciding whether the breach applied to all competitions, including ones we hadn’t “cheated” in. They were deciding whether an individual should be banned from all football, not whether a club should be thrown out of a competition. 
 

There’s also the complications involved with a total ban from all Football, whereas the EFL punishment was clean concise & pretty watertight (whatever your views of it). 
 

Our mitigation in the play off case was pretty poor as well, whereas “we’ve suffered enough”, “he’ll lose his job”, is a bit more compelling than “we did it, please go easy on us”. 

The pressure on the EFL panel was also far far higher than on the FA one. Not only were there time constraints, there was their biggest pay day looming, not to mention 2 other clubs, Boro & Hull to consider, and the ramifications of letting us compete at Wembley after admitting cheating. Whereas The FA one could judge it without any outside pressure. 

You also have to remember we also lied to the EFL in the first instance, had Tonda lied to the FA and then changed his story, there’s no doubt this ban wouldn’t have been suspended. 
 

It’s too simplistic to say EFL panel wrong, FA panel right. They were different decisions, with different timescales, a different set of circumstances. 

[Fabrice29]

29 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Oh dear. Some people take a different view to you. Live with it.

It’s not a different view, I’m literally saying what the report says about the EFL punishment 😂

But hey, Solent told everyone it’s proof it’s harsh for an hour yesterday, so that’s the facts.

[obelisk]

7 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s too simplistic to say EFL panel wrong, FA panel right

More haste, less speed. Something the EFL panel should ponder on.

[egg]

16 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

"Played for them once" but he was with them for an extended period, at least half a season. 

He wasn't. He signed 24 march, didn't get a sniff, played once, badly, never got a sniff again, then went back to his club. 

Nuts to think that would give him an affinity with Boro. Quite the opposite. 

[Toadhall Saint]

10 minutes ago, saintant said:

On the interview Jobi Thatsenough did they spoke to a Boro fan who claimed their shit performance at Wembley was down to how emotionally upset Crying Kim was meaning he was unable to motivate the players. Heard it all now - they get a free pass to Wembley and still try to blame us for how crap they played in such a huge game 🙂

Also didn't crying Kim take over when the northern monkeys were still top 2? 

[Saint86]

17 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Agreed. Underlying the document is a feeling that the FA  consider the EFL to have wildly overstepped the mark and that their commission was somewhat amateurish. Dragon's statement seems to have the same view.

I said all along that the FA would be very interested in the matter of bullying/coersion. If they had found any evidence of this they would have been serious aggravating factors for the sanctions. That they didn't find any evidence largely enabled them to give out a fairly minimal sanction. It was clearly bad form of the EFL to make this a matter of concern with no substantive evidence (and indeed to issue reprimands against SFC specifically for this). I won't say told you so.

Makes you wonder if the club will pursue legal action after the fact. You would think Eckert in particular has grounds for compensation after having his image trashed.

[SW5 SAINT]

Is it too late to appeal the original EFL whole unfair process and sentence as being too harsh..? I know it’s too late to play in the play off final. But we could get the four points back……

Edited 51 minutes ago by SW5 SAINT

[revolution saint]

2 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Also didn't crying Kim take over when the northern monkeys were still top 2? 

Yeah but they had better "underlying numbers" when they finished 5th at the end of the season.  That's got to count for something, right?

[Badger]

18 minutes ago, obelisk said:

More haste, less speed. Something the EFL panel should ponder on.

Yes but the EFL simply had to make a decision because of the imminent Play Off final only being days away. Such an important fixture with a great deal of sponsorship money and broadcast revenue dependent on the game going ahead at the right time.

Could have been serious ructions and financial implications had they postponed it (as opposed to cancelling it)

Reinstating Middlesbrough was the easiest option for the EFL at short notice. Not giving Hull a bye or holding a rerun SF of Middlesbrough v Millwall or Wrexham even.

But then of course it’s all about the integrity of the game, not the money. 

[obelisk]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

the EFL simply had to make a decision because of the imminent Play Off final

And that's why they made a daft decision with a number of incorrect assertions that might have opened them up to legal challenge. Reversing the result of a football match on a whim in order to keep the money men happy is the sort of thing that brings the sport into disrepute.

[JSpeake]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Yes but the EFL simply had to make a decision because of the imminent Play Off final only being days away. Such an important fixture with a great deal of sponsorship money and broadcast revenue dependent on the game going ahead at the right time.

Could have been serious ructions and financial implications had they postponed it (as opposed to cancelling it)

Reinstating Middlesbrough was the easiest option for the EFL at short notice. Not giving Hull a bye or holding a rerun SF of Middlesbrough v Millwall or Wrexham even.

But then of course it’s all about the integrity of the game, not the money. 

Which is exactly why we were naive agreeing to an accelerated timetable for the EFL - if we had insisted on the normal process, this would have taken the decision past the play off final - what would the EFL have done then - postpone ? Possibly, but sponsors would have applied pressure to go ahead, and the window for another date was rapidly closing with the World Cup coming up. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, jrobsbigshorts said:

" You could MAYBE argue the the club were punished when they were kicked out the play off final"  laughable 

They really go big on the outrage in the first 5mins but they do make some interesting points about Dragan , they admit Tonda and the club have shown contrition but Solaks statement is arrogant and unrepentant and I think they have a point 

I guess you don't become a Serbian billionaire media mogul without being an uncompromising character but come on Dragan shut the fuck up mate , don't piss the FA off now 

If it was your multiple millions I expect you'd be pretty uncompromising and fucked off quite frankly 

[Oldandtired]

Bottom line I suppose is, with all the rumblings about appeals etc., is it finally done and dusted or just round one over with?

[trousers]

4 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Tony Pulis recently came out and said he did it, we know Bielsa did it. It's common over Europe and probably the rest of the world.

The main rule is not in place if you observe another team outside of 72 hours before the game.

It's not as big a deal as he's making out at all. 

Not forgetting that for the 'Ipswich training at Eastleigh' case, Tonda didn't even request that we 'spy' on them, he just happened to be shown a video by someone who was there filming it. 

And in the Middlesborough (sic) situation, it was someone else that suggested they go up there, not Tonda. 

I think I'm correct in saying that, out of the 3 'spying' charges, Tonda only instigated one of them off his own back, i.e. Oxford?

Hardly an orchestrated and sustained initiative.

How many football managers can put their hands up and say they've never had sight of any 'shady' information during their career? Simple: none of them. Every manager will have been in the same position as Tonda found himself in at some point.

We were just stupid enough not to work out that Middlesborough (sic) would be ready and waiting to capture our presence and take full advantage thereof... 

(Footnote for the forum thought police: No, I'm not condoning what we did, just highlighting that everyone probably does it, in some shape or form, and we were just stupid and or naive enough to get caught, and rightly punished for doing so, although disproportionately IMO)

Edited 9 minutes ago by trousers

[trousers]

4 hours ago, egg said:

The only sporting sanction on the table was expulsion from the play offs

You and I will probably disagree on that until the end of time...

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

Don't worry, Boro will be saving all the sob stories for November in the week before we play them. It's going to be relentless

As long as we use the 'Middlesborough' misspelling in the match day programme and on the big screens, then I'll be happy 😁