Saints v Stoke - Saturday 3pm

[Willo of Whiteley]

May as well get started now, how are we feeling 😂

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

First home game. Reset after today and get going next Saturday.

Definitely need to ensure that defensively, Saints don't mess about and just boot it out or just upfield.

[CSA96]

Peretz; Bree, Harwood-Bellis, Stephens, Manning; Downes, Jander (if we can get a half out of him); Fellows, Azaz, Scienza; Larin

Dobbin for Azaz after an hour to get close to Larin as he tires to make the most of the fresh legs

[Turkish]

Our record against Stoke is awful so a heavy loss and calls for Tonda to go

[Jack]

Wingers on the wing, a 10 as a 10, Jander straight in if possible, and Stephens on the bench to think about today’s performance. 

[saintant]

Stephens needs to sit this one out.

[Lighthouse]

IMO it’s Azaz starting for Dobbin and Leo out on the left. Everything else the same, I don’t think there’re really too many options in CM other than putting Matsuki back there and playing Fellows right.

[Saint Fan CaM]

A draw if we’re lucky. Not feeling particularly optimistic and won’t until I see a return to the more positive forward play we saw after January. Would love to see Stephens dropped for Wood and Manning dropped for Welington. Would love to see Scienza back on the left. Would like to see Fellows start on the right to help get us out of defence. Fuck me, just play your best players Tonda!

[tdmickey3]

8 hours ago, saintant said:

Stephens needs to sit this one out.

Just one?   The Stephens we all know (except the club) needs to go, useless ball watcher

[leesaint88]

6 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

A draw if we’re lucky. Not feeling particularly optimistic and won’t until I see a return to the more positive forward play we saw after January. Would love to see Stephens dropped for Wood and Manning dropped for Welington. Would love to see Scienza back on the left. Would like to see Fellows start on the right to help get us out of defence. Fuck me, just play your best players Tonda!

Scienza might be back on the left, according to Tonda he shifted him over due to the way Watford set up. I'd still play Manning, despite his clusterf*ck moment for the second he can still deliver a decent ball. 

[RedArmy]

7 minutes ago, leesaint88 said:

Scienza might be back on the left, according to Tonda he shifted him over due to the way Watford set up. 

Every team sets up like that against him because we have zero threat in behind on the right side. They can bring 2 or even 3 out to get in front of him and stop him running at them. It’s been going on for a long time and has been pretty effective. 
 

He either needs to give Fellows a proper chance or sign a right winger. 

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Every team sets up like that against him because we have zero threat in behind on the right side. They can bring 2 or even 3 out to get in front of him and stop him running at them. It’s been going on for a long time and has been pretty effective. 
 

He either needs to give Fellows a proper chance or sign a right winger. 

Not that effective given we went 21 games unbeaten until yesterday 

[Saint Garrett]

No idea what to do with Stephens, don't think we an drop him after 1 game, so think he will carry on next week, but his performance yesterday was very concerning.

Peretz

Bree THB Stephens Manning

Downes Jander (if possible)

Fellows Azaz Scienza

Larin

Dobbin, Bragg, Mubama, Matsuki all to come on. Maybe we'll have a new CM by then.

[AlexLaw76]

heading into a MUST WIN territory already.

3-0 to Saints

[saintant]

11 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

IMO it’s Azaz starting for Dobbin and Leo out on the left. Everything else the same, I don’t think there’re really too many options in CM other than putting Matsuki back there and playing Fellows right.

You were happy with how Stephens performed?

[Willo of Whiteley]

11 hours ago, saintant said:

Stephens needs to sit this one out.

He needs to, but he won't.

[saintant]

Just now, Willo of Whiteley said:

He needs to, but he won't.

Agree. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 hours ago, leesaint88 said:

Scienza might be back on the left, according to Tonda he shifted him over due to the way Watford set up. I'd still play Manning, despite his clusterf*ck moment for the second he can still deliver a decent ball. 

Afraid I don’t agree with this entirely. When there’s the mentality to play slowly and pass the ball backwards or sideways, so they’re able to marshall 11 players behind the ball, it invites those crunching tackles on Scienza. Yes Watford are notorious cloggers who had a game plan to nobble Scienza, but we don’t help ourselves. And it’s not a one off for Manning - he’s shown time and time again that he’s brain dead when it comes to closing down attackers, not helped by Scienza not being a hard tackler himself. And from the reports I’ve seen, Manning repeatedly couldn’t cross the ball past the first defender…again, another trait of his. 

If Tonda is not willing to use the players at his disposal effectively we’re in for an even more disappointing season than last I fear. And for those who are already looking forward to next season and ‘becoming a Swansea or Stoke’…I fear we may have already got there.

[Lighthouse]

34 minutes ago, saintant said:

You were happy with how Stephens performed?

You don’t pick a team as a reward for the last game.

[Saint86]

Start Mubama Vs his old club, bring on Larin second half to rinse their tired defence with his constant movement and poacher's instinct.

Try not to gift them 1 goal, let alone 2.

Edited 9 hours ago by Saint86

[Fabrice29]

14 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Start Mubama Vs his old club, bring on Larin second half to rinse their tired defence with his constant movement and poacher's instinct.

Try not to gift them 1 goal, let alone 2.

Think you need the West Ham cup match for those tactics, not this one.

[Saint86]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Think you need the West Ham cup match for those tactics, not this one.

My only viewpoint was that we're stronger than teams the longer the game goes on, just feed larin and he'll score, especially against tiring defences.

[Willo of Whiteley]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

You don’t pick a team as a reward for the last game.

You should also never change a winning team.

Given we lost I think it’s fair to change things about, if someone has underperformed they shouldn’t be starting.

[CSA96]

I don't think you need to start performatively punishing people - let alone the popular captain and leader in the dressing room that has got behind you when you could've been sacked - because of one bad performance. Stephens will start and he should start. If he has a bad run of form then yes, sit him out then

[Lighthouse]

31 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

You should also never change a winning team.

Given we lost I think it’s fair to change things about, if someone has underperformed they shouldn’t be starting.

You play the team you think is most likely to win, which IMO does not feature Nathan Wood.

[SNSUN]

Question is really, who do you have more confidence in, Jack or Nathan. For me it's still Jack. not that Wood is terrible. I'll give our captain the benefit of the doubt before dropping him but one more silly mistake that essentially costs us points and my mind will change. 

We're play-off material currently. If the club want us aiming for the autos then we do need strengthening. 

That said I think we have enough to beat Stoke but it really depends on what happens with THB between now and Friday. Hell we might be starting Jack AND Nathan!

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

I don't think you need to start performatively punishing people - let alone the popular captain and leader in the dressing room that has got behind you when you could've been sacked - because of one bad performance. Stephens will start and he should start. If he has a bad run of form then yes, sit him out then

Its not popularity contest, we need players who can do the basics not put in pathetic displays like yesterday.

This is not a one off its a reoccurring event, its been happening for years and any serious promotion chasing team would not have him in their team except us..... poor long term judgement by SFC.

 

[jrobsbigshorts]

                           Peretz

Bree            THB              Wood          Manning 

                          Downes 

Fellows               Jander              Scienza

                            Azaz

                            Larin

[Pamplemousse]

If we play like we did in the second half yesterday, we should have too much for them, but that first half was a huge concern. We can't gift shit teams 2 goal leads.

Stephens should be dropped but he won't be. Spors needs to sort out a replacement and quick - Quarshie they obviously thought was the solution but clearly not ready.

[CSA96]

28 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Its not popularity contest, we need players who can do the basics not put in pathetic displays like yesterday.

This is not a one off its a reoccurring event, its been happening for years and any serious promotion chasing team would not have him in their team except us..... poor long term judgement by SFC.

 

I'm just being realistic and pragmatic. If you want to lose the dressing room then a sure-fire way to do it is over-punishing popular members of the dressing room for a mistake in the very first game of the season when the team as a whole was rusty and not firing

Football management isn't just FIFA or FM where you select the team and press play, it's managing the group dynamics of a dressing room 24/7 and getting into it quickly with the long-term club captain after a summer where you're lucky to still have your job and your players prepared to publicly back you is probably not the smartest idea

[tdmickey3]

29 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

I'm just being realistic and pragmatic. If you want to lose the dressing room then a sure-fire way to do it is over-punishing popular members of the dressing room for a mistake in the very first game of the season when the team as a whole was rusty and not firing

Football management isn't just FIFA or FM where you select the team and press play, it's managing the group dynamics of a dressing room 24/7 and getting into it quickly with the long-term club captain after a summer where you're lucky to still have your job and your players prepared to publicly back you is probably not the smartest idea

I don`t play FIFA or FM or whatever else.

It had nothing to do with someone keeping their job but as you bring it up, its surely better to play players who are up to the job not doing it for popularity because these "popular" player may cost you your job if they perform to the shocking standard Stephens performed at.

[CSA96]

14 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

I don`t play FIFA or FM or whatever else.

It had nothing to do with someone keeping their job but as you bring it up, its surely better to play players who are up to the job not doing it for popularity because these "popular" player may cost you your job if they perform to the shocking standard Stephens performed at.

Do you think Nathan Wood isn't going to make mistakes if he starts routinely? He absolutely will. The bloke's brain is on dial-up, you can see the hamster running on the wheel in his head every time he does an interview. Wood is a handy Championship player who has his uses at this level but I always feel like he needs to be matched to the specifics of an opponent. Ultimately, Stephens, Wood, whoever else are second division players doing second division things. If they didn't have those sort of brainfarts then they wouldn't be playing at this level

Chucking people in and out of the team after one bad/good game is the sort of crap that Will Still was doing and was (partly) why he lost the plot behind the scenes. Watford was bad but it is also one game out of 46, we don't have backup CBs who are better than Stephens so he should continue for now. If he has a honking run to start the season then yes, give somebody else a go. Overreacting and throwing someone onto the bench because they had a bad 45 minutes in the first game of the season is not good man management and I'd hope Eckert is better than that. I'd be more concerned if he started chopping and changing and using the most players in the division like Still was

Edited 6 hours ago by CSA96

[tdmickey3]

4 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Do you think Nathan Wood isn't going to make mistakes if he starts routinely? He absolutely will. The bloke's brain is on dial-up, you can see the hamster running on the wheel in his head every time he does an interview. Wood is a handy Championship player who has his uses at this level but I always feel like he needs to be matched to the specifics of an opponent. Ultimately, Stephens, Wood, whoever else are second division players doing second division things. If they didn't have those sort of brainfarts then they wouldn't be playing at this level

Chucking people in and out of the team after one bad/good game is the sort of crap that Will Still was doing and was (partly) why he lost the plot behind the scenes. Watford was bad but it is also one game out of 46, we don't have backup CBs who are better than Stephens so he should continue for now. If he has a honking run to start the season then yes, give somebody else a go. Overreacting and throwing someone onto the bench because they had a bad 45 minutes in the first game of the season is not good man management and I'd hope Eckert is better than that. I'd be more concerned if he started chopping and changing and using the most players in the division like Still was

IMO Wood is better than Stephens but not as popular i guess.

This just highlights the serious lack of judgment at SFC that instead of signing a better players than Stephens we gave him a new deal... madness (Not TE`s Fault)

I repeat Stephens is not good enough and never was, this is the issue and it needs to be addressed or the Stephens shitshow will rear its had again as it always does

 

[Toadhall Saint]

Home win

[CSA96]

5 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

IMO Wood is better than Stephens but not as popular i guess.

This just highlights the serious lack of judgment at SFC that instead of signing a better players than Stephens we gave him a new deal... madness (Not TE`s Fault)

I repeat Stephens is not good enough and never was, this is the issue and it needs to be addressed or the Stephens shitshow will rear its had again as it always does

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree

Stephens has runs of being fine and totally without issue, then he has a brainfart that gets punished and then goes back to being fine again. He's not amazing, he shouldn't be your best CB in a defensive partnership but he is perfectly capable for the job we need here of being an experienced defensive partner to THB (or whoever replaces him). As proven by the fact he's been part of a 20+ game unbeaten run in both his previous Championship seasons with us. Our defence looked pretty solid with the current back four and Peretz last season and I'd sooner let them sharpen up and settle back in than start the chopping and changing in game two because somebody made a couple of mistakes in the first 45 minutes of the season

In an ideal world, yeah I would upgrade on him (and many others) but the suggestion that he's not good enough to start for a playoff side in the Championship is nonsense for me. This should be his last season as a regular and then next summer he becomes a squad player I would expect

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree

Stephens has runs of being fine and totally without issue, then he has a brainfart that gets punished and then goes back to being fine again. He's not amazing, he shouldn't be your best CB in a defensive partnership but he is perfectly capable for the job we need here of being an experienced defensive partner to THB (or whoever replaces him). As proven by the fact he's been part of a 20+ game unbeaten run in both his previous Championship seasons with us. Our defence looked pretty solid with the current back four and Peretz last season and I'd sooner let them sharpen up and settle back in than start the chopping and changing in game two because somebody made a couple of mistakes in the first 45 minutes of the season

In an ideal world, yeah I would upgrade on him (and many others) but the suggestion that he's not good enough to start for a playoff side in the Championship is nonsense for me. This should be his last season as a regular and then next summer he becomes a squad player I would expect

ok disagree it is.

It should be but remember we used him in the PL during the pathetic 12points only fiasco, will the club ever learn? Seems unlikely

[trousers]

Jander has to start alongside Downes if fit, with Bragg on the bench. Azaz also to start instead of Dobbin. Wouldn't change anything else. 

[saintant]

45 minutes ago, trousers said:

Jander has to start alongside Downes if fit, with Bragg on the bench. Azaz also to start instead of Dobbin. Wouldn't change anything else. 

It is unlikely Jander will go straight into the side even if fit. Bench at best would be my guess.

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

It is unlikely Jander will go straight into the side even if fit. Bench at best would be my guess.

I get that's the 'safe' way of doing things, but I'd make an exception in this case.... I appreciate it probably won't happen though... "Computer Says No"... (Which is probably why I'm not a football manager)

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[OneMrsWallace]

Play like we did in the 2nd half on Sunday for 90 mins v Stoke and we win comfortably. Oh, and take our chances. Team can change but urgency and positivity 'in play' needs to be spot on.

[Appy]

Fairly sure the last time I saw us beat Stoke at home, Mario Licka scored the winner. 

[AlexLaw76]

They don't seem to happy at the moment 

https://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/board/2/stoke-city-fc

[Toussaint]

1-1, Saints score early, Stoke equalise 89 minutes. 

[whelk]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They don't seem to happy at the moment 

https://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/board/2/stoke-city-fc

Seems so often we play teams with injury crises or fan discontent however rarely works in our favour. That said we’ll smash them 4-1

[SaintNewForest]

Stephens and THB were a fantastic partnership last season throughout our run.

I wouldn't be dismantling that based on one game whilst the majority of the team looked rusty.

If it carries on, by all means, look at a change, but im personally happy to carry on as is. 

[Dman]

A gentle reminder for those attending the game... center back Ben Gibson is the nephew of Steve 'gibbo' Gibson.

[Challenger]

Reckon we will get a draw here.

[die Mannyschaft]

Saints 3-2 Stoke. Don't think either team has a strong defence and should have enough up front to score more. 

A positive is Derby got 69 points in 8th last season scored 67 let in 59 so if we dont get the right mix of players in position and excell in howlers in next 6 gsmes it should still be quite easy to make 8th. Derby was almost 10 wins off top!

 

[saintant]

Azaz, Leo and Fellows are our brightest, most creative players and they must start this game in their usual positions. The experiment to play Leo in the middle didn't work and we missed the probing of Azaz and runs of Fellows from the start. Get them in the side and we'll be able to hurt teams much more than on Sunday.