The King is dead. Long live the King!

[Alain Perrin]

Those gifted with 20:20 hindsight on this board 'always knew' that the revolutionary coaching set up / Dutch Experiment / JP would fail. I had scepticism (as I believe you should have with all new managers), but really began to believe after the Derby / Birmingham performances.

 

I am interested if any of the people who were critical from the start had similar wobbles and thought, "**** me! This really could work!"?

[Wes Tender]

No. Always had a firm belief that the entire concept was sheer lunacy. Thank God that wiser councils have prevailed once it became clear that had we persevered with the mad experiment we would certainly have been relegated. It is still a possibility, but at least there is a glimmer of hope now.

[eelpie]

I have mixed feelings. I believe the emphasis on individual and passing skills benefited considerably (comparing for example with the woeful standards of Burley's teams). And despite misgivings I was willing to see how it worked out in results. But the tactics were too predictable, and after the early successful flush, opposing teams soon sussed us out, and JP had no answer. To persist with one hapless striker upfront was sheer stupidity. I can only surmise that JP's tactics were strictly to instructions from the Fuerer.

[Wildgoose]

To be honest I was quite hopeful after the West Ham friendly and the early season promise...even up to where we beat Doncaster away 2-0.

 

After that it was downhill for the most part and becoming more obvious it wasn't going to work. I would love for it to have come off but am glad we are getting back on track with the more experienced players coming in. Just hope we can keep up the good form and it isn't too late too stay up

[Weston Saint]

This is what I said on 13th August on here

 

"You will not win anything with kids" is a well used phrase.

 

My concern for a while has been that the kids playing in the reserves were usually well beaten when playing more experienced reserve teams. I have always advocated that more than 3 or 4 in the side had to be the maximum.

 

OK I appreciate that our precarious financial state and a new mind set in the club have forced the issue BUT have we turned the corner?

 

Saturday saw us almost hold a decent Cardiff side away from home.

 

Last night saw us win against a side buoyant from gaining promotion from the Conference to the 2nd Division. Teams with that winning confidence usually do well for a while.

 

OK so the stats show football possession very much in favour of the opposition but the kids will learn from that. As a unit they will collectively become stronger and tactically aware of each others strengths and weaknesses and compensate accordingly.

 

I am not getting carried away. We have a very tough test against Birmingham on Saturday but let’s treat it as another step on the steep learning curve.

[View From The Top]

Those gifted with 20:20 hindsight on this board 'always knew' that the revolutionary coaching set up / Dutch Experiment / JP would fail. I had scepticism (as I believe you should have with all new managers), but really began to believe after the Derby / Birmingham performances.

 

I am interested if any of the people who were critical from the start had similar wobbles and thought, "**** me! This really could work!"?

 

I said after the three pre-season games I saw that there wasn't enough goals in the team, we were too lightweight and the lack of experience would cripple us. I tempered that by saying the football we played was lovely to watch.

 

It was a doomed experiment, which I said way back in August, over which the pro-Lowe brigade castigated me for being negative and out to ruin the club. :smt048

 

It was obvious to everyone with an IQ above that of a chimp that a mixture of youth and experience was the way we should have gone and are now going. Lets just hope that it isn't too little too late.

[Daren W]

Those gifted with 20:20 hindsight on this board 'always knew' that the revolutionary coaching set up / Dutch Experiment / JP would fail. I had scepticism (as I believe you should have with all new managers), but really began to believe after the Derby / Birmingham performances.

 

I am interested if any of the people who were critical from the start had similar wobbles and thought, "**** me! This really could work!"?

 

Oh I did, I thought that, after the Derby and Birmingham games, we could give anyone a go.... but only with 3 or 4 established older pros..

As the season progressed I just became more despondant that these youngsters were being shipped out to play with nowhere near enough old heads to show them the way...

Shame really....

Edited 7 March, 2009 by Daren W

[lordswoodsaints]

i wasnt happy about it but was prepared to give it a chance at least until christmas.

it was obvious that it wasnt working and the doncaster game was the final straw for me.

i wasnt happy about wotte taking the steering wheel but i have to admit he has turned things around and i am seeing some decent football again so i cant grumble as ultimately that is why i go to football.

[Jonnyboy]

Dont forget JP wasnt allowed to use Euell, Skacel, Saga or any of the other xperienced pros (apart from Kelvin) due to cost....

 

I think his reign will be a good experience for the "kids" and they will have learned something.

 

Wotte has now improved on the situation and has better players at his disposal. Similarly i dont think we should get too carried away until the moment we are safe and can then look to next season and building for a promotion push

[um pahars]

Hated to be proved right, but I just couldn't see it working in this division. Nothing would have given me more pleasure than to see a majority of youngsters in a team who had been brought through, who we could have identified with, and who would be equally as proud as us about "their" Club.

 

But for me, in the cold light of day, it just wasn't going to happen.

 

I wasn't impressed by the results and play in the friendlies (most of which were meaningless), even in the West Ham game as although we looked good, I was convinced West Ham were just treating it as a training exercise and weren't kicking us up in the air.

 

I just couldn't see how they would be (a) good enough, (b) up to the physical demands and rigours of this division and © up to the mental demands of this division.

 

I also just couldn't see how all of a sudden we would be playing Total Football and everyone would know exactly what was expected.

 

And then finally, I was convinced we had brought in a coach who would out of his depth.

 

I think those sporadic wins really were the exceptions to the rule and most teams can pull off a giant killing act every now and then.

[NickG]

Wotte said yesterday that one of the reasons he was so keen to take the managers job was so they could keep the new coaching set up.

[ottery st mary]

Lowe is the problem and will continue to be so.

Whatever Wotte does there will always be this worry lurking to take control with another

mad decision.

Without a real football man backing Wotte it will only end in disaster soon enough.

 

Wotte is at least trying but poor old JP never stood a chance regardless of his ability.

Now we have the word from the top through Wotte to blame JP and more so the fans.

 

Everyone bar a few Rupert Groupies saw the problems from early days.

Ruperts Agents still loiter with much rubbish spewed out in support of this failede Chairman...Yes with Rupert The King we are doomed unless some how he is removed from the club from all major decisions.

[St Landrew]

Almost anything starts out with the odd mixed feeling. But Saints are a football club, and I am a supporter. My starting point this season was that we had the wrong chairman [for those that don't know, I used to be pro-Lowe] and board conducting an unnecessary experiment, but it was one that had interesting possibilities. It had to be supported, because a decision had been made. Under this policy, Saints played some really attractive football at times, but like WBA, one division above them, it had no real end product. As per usual, RL stuck to his guns far too long, and may well have jepordised the entire club's status. A few weeks ago, I would have said it was almost certain, but after 3 excellent results, Wotte may have just saved the club's bacon. However, I'm still of the opinion that we have the wrong chairman in place. RL is divisive and despite his soundish financial abilities, manages to waste money by appointing the wrong people, and then having to settle their contracts. His penchant for getting ex-employees to sign no-disclosure agreements also bothers me, because it suggests he has something to hide. And for me, there must be transparency, or as close as one can get to it. RL and Co are miles away from that.

[SW11_Saint]

Those gifted with 20:20 hindsight on this board 'always knew' that the revolutionary coaching set up / Dutch Experiment / JP would fail. I had scepticism (as I believe you should have with all new managers), but really began to believe after the Derby / Birmingham performances.

 

I am interested if any of the people who were critical from the start had similar wobbles and thought, "**** me! This really could work!"?

I don't think it's got anything to do with "hindsight" - rather common sense, and having a modicum of knowledge of the CC Championship. Sadly, and rather incredibly, our board seem to have neither!!

 

You'd hope that its abject failure will have taught them a lesson, but with Lowe, I suspect not (in fact, given how deluded he is, it wouldn't surprise me if he saw what Wotte is doing now as some form of justification - even though it's almost the polar opposite of what Lowe originally intended!).

[Frank's cousin]

Dissapointed we did not give Pearson a go, but liked the principle of 'lets go with the youth' afterall could things get any worse and understood the need to cut costs... Was worried that it might not work bu was hopeful after those initial games - maybe naively thought the results would come... Its easy to be wise when not in pocession of all the facts as to why ceratin decisions were made - I simply dont know (although have speculated elsewhere, whether this was purely Lowe's long term masterplan, or how much was forced on us due to the true nature of the finances. Lowe has alwys been into the idea of youth, but we never went so far down that route when in the prem, or even after relegation under Harry or Burley so what wa shis rational for fdoing it at last summer - Its easy to say he just fecked up again, but I would like to know why those decisons were made before casting the stones? Naturally this is Luvvie speak so cue the insulting sheite....

[NickG]

I don't think it's got anything to do with "hindsight" - rather common sense, and having a modicum of knowledge of the CC Championship. Sadly, and rather incredibly, our board seem to have neither!!

 

You'd hope that its abject failure will have taught them a lesson, but with Lowe, I suspect not (in fact, given how deluded he is, it wouldn't surprise me if he saw what Wotte is doing now as some form of justification - even though it's almost the polar opposite of what Lowe originally intended!).

 

still same coaching set up, heavy use of youth product etc - just with a CB and CF!

[um pahars]

still same coaching set up, heavy use of youth product etc - just with a CB and CF!

 

We should have kept Poortvliet then;)

[SW11_Saint]

still same coaching set up, heavy use of youth product etc - just with a CB and CF!

Erm, different team manager, different coaches, different team blend, different tactics, use of previously discarded loanees...

 

Guess what - different results!

 

To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.

[aintforever]

Every skint team in history has resorted to playing kids, there is nothing new, ground breaking or forward thinking about it.

 

Choosing to play (and spend money bring in more) kids whilst freezing & loaning out experienced pros - now that's a different story.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

No.

 

No wobbles at all.

 

Well, apart from my belly wobbling with laughter at the post match interviews.

 

And, FWIW, I hate the fact that I was right in my feelings and the larger portion of a season were wasted on it.

[SW11_Saint]

Dissapointed we did not give Pearson a go' date=' but liked the principle of 'lets go with the youth' [b']after all could things get any worse[/b]

I think we got the answer to that, didn't we!

[Alain Perrin]

I am surprised. I'd have thought anyone who saw us play Birmingham off the park, and take (albeit a demoralised) Derby team apart in the first few games of the season would have thought... hang on, this might work.

 

We were awesome in those fixtures, stroking the ball across the park and dominating. At that point I believed the hype. The only issue I would agree with is the lack of goals, the cutting edge wasn't there, even then.

 

One player who really delivered in those games was Gillett, but then went off the boil. He seems to have got his mojo back recently and I'd credit him with some of our recent successes.

[SW11_Saint]

I am surprised. I'd have thought anyone who saw us play Birmingham off the park, and take (albeit a demoralised) Derby team apart in the first few games of the season would have thought... hang on, this might work.

 

We were awesome in those fixtures, stroking the ball across the park and dominating. At that point I believed the hype. The only issue I would agree with is the lack of goals, the cutting edge wasn't there, even then.

 

One player who really delivered in those games was Gillett, but then went off the boil. He seems to have got his mojo back recently and I'd credit him with some of our recent successes.

I think phrases like "playing them off the park" and "awesome" are a bit over the top. What I saw in those early games was some considerable promise, but obvious frailties too. It was fairly clear that as the season wore on that we were going to start getting steam rollered if we persisted in that vein.

 

The QPR away game was to my mind a microcosm of our season under JP - some of the neatest, prettiest football you'll see, but also some real naivety (notably Lancashire in that game), and lack of experience /nous - hence we end up losing, somewhat flatteringly for them, 4-1.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I am surprised. I'd have thought anyone who saw us play Birmingham off the park, and take (albeit a demoralised) Derby team apart in the first few games of the season would have thought... hang on, this might work.

 

We were awesome in those fixtures, stroking the ball across the park and dominating. At that point I believed the hype. The only issue I would agree with is the lack of goals, the cutting edge wasn't there, even then.

 

One player who really delivered in those games was Gillett, but then went off the boil. He seems to have got his mojo back recently and I'd credit him with some of our recent successes.

 

I agree with you AP 100% and knowing the finanacial situation i was pleased we were taking the risk of going with some homegrown talent and adopting a management of youth approach that is the envy of the RoW.

 

Till the day I die I will never understand why fans bigged up Pearson on the strength of what he achieved at Saints and he has only ever struck me as a good square bashing sargent-major type than a great manager. Maybe he was what was needed at the time, 'manage by fear' but not long term. The alledged fact he wanted to retain Idiakez should tell us all we need to know about how he would have managed our season. Journeymen loanees and freebies and the odd substitute appearance for Gillett and Lallana.

 

Anybody who wasn't impressed by our team in the early games and buoyed by the prospect that we may just pull this off, is either lying, didn't go the games or it does not suit there personal agenda to admit what you and I have.

 

The vast majority of comments are classic after timing comments and those who will point to Pearson's success at Leicester are once again ignoring the circumstances of both teams or perhaps you believe Pearson would have got us in the top 6 on our budget. What is the greater result a 3-0 away win at Ipswich or a tonking of hapless Cheltenham routed to the foot of the division and every player on the transfer list?

 

To avoid any after timing I predict Leicester will get promoted and Pearson will be sacked by the start of 2010-11 at the latest just in case Mandaric comes over all loyal for a change. Getting promoted out of the league 1 with their resources and MK Dons as their most serious competitors doesn't quite compare to the task our club has faced.

 

The Youth experiment is still working and although the balance has change its merely an adjustment and no sea change that many would lead us to believe with JPS (a new DUTCH signing) and Saga coming back into the team as preseumably we have saved enough to pay him for the time being. The only regret is that Wotte wasn't appointed after the Palace game in December that followed a disappointing run of results but JP survived because inbetween we beat Reading and we lived off that result too long.

 

Having said all that i am very confident we will survive in terms of results but remain very concerned about administration. Even if we lose to a massively in form Derby team the games thereafter don't get close to matching the difficulty of our last 7 games and not many of our relegation candidates could have matched that run so we've done well to stay in touch.

 

Last 7 games: Birmingham, Ipswich, Cardiff, Preston. Bristol City, Sheff Utd, Swansea.

 

Not to many gimmes there and teams all in the top 6 or challenging for a play off place. The fact we've come away with 10 points shows we can push on under Wotte with some far easier opposition coming up like: QPR, Blackpool, Charlton, Watford, Palace, Sheff Wed. Then the slightly more difficult but still easier than our last 7 we have: Derby, Wolves, Burnley, Forest and easy to see us take at least 4 bonus points form those 4 games and win 5 of the other 6.

 

Anyone who believes the Derby game is a must win and starts turning up the 'protest' heat if we lose is ignorant of the competition in this league and the dramatic improvement in our recent form in the middle of a very difficult run of games.

[Tamesaint]

Till the day I die I will never understand why fans bigged up Pearson on the strength of what he achieved at Saints .

 

 

It has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions. You will never understand if you do not listen.

[um pahars]

i was pleased we were taking the risk of going with some homegrown talent and adopting a management of youth approach that is the envy of the RoW.

 

We are the envy of the world LMFAO :smt017:rolleyes::---):rolleyes:

[alehouseboys]

Anyone who believes the Derby game is a must win and starts turning up the 'protest' heat if we lose is ignorant of the competition in this league and the dramatic improvement in our recent form in the middle of a very difficult run of games.

 

It's those (namely the Board) that were "ignorant of the competition in this league" that put us in this predicament - yet another fanciful Rupey experiment at our expense.

[um pahars]

It's those (namely the Board) that were "ignorant of the competition in this league" that put us in this predicament - yet another fanciful Rupey experiment at our expense.

 

I'm afraid you're wrong.

 

What we are seeing now is no different from what we were doing for the first 28 games (it must just be that the other teams have all got worse).

 

But honestly, you're spot on, in that Lowe and in particular Poortlviet were ignorant of the competition in this league and risked all pursuing a strategy that has almost cost the very existence of this Club. As well as ignorance, I think there was a large dash of arrogance in there as well.

[alehouseboys]

I'm afraid you're wrong.

 

What we are seeing now is no different from what we were doing for the first 28 games (it must just be that the other teams have all got worse).

 

But honestly, you're spot on, in that Lowe and in particular Poortlviet were ignorant of the competition in this league and risked all pursuing a strategy that has almost cost the very existence of this Club. As well as ignorance, I think there was a large dash of arrogance in there as well.

 

But Um...I still find it hard to throw too much blame at Poortlviet as I truly beleive he was only ever bought in as a cheap, expendable, scapegoat as early days playing youth (virtually) alone was always a risky ask and his hands were always tied. Result inevitable, please enter Mr 'Saviour' Wotte.

 

So Wotte now has the reins and is likely getting anything he wants - something Jan would probably loved to have had.

[ottery st mary]

Nineteen Canteen

 

You have surely heard the saying, A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

To ease the suffering for us all, I suggest a picture of a fox hunt or a pheasant shoot

would suffice.

[Alain Perrin]

I'm afraid you're wrong.

 

What we are seeing now is no different from what we were doing for the first 28 games (it must just be that the other teams have all got worse).

 

But honestly, you're spot on, in that Lowe and in particular Poortlviet were ignorant of the competition in this league and risked all pursuing a strategy that has almost cost the very existence of this Club. As well as ignorance, I think there was a large dash of arrogance in there as well.

 

Whilst I don't disagree with the sentiment (i.e. you need grit and guile as well as 'schexy futball' to get out / survive in the CCC), you do have a tendency to be overly melodramatic.

 

"Almost cost the very existence of the club", is over egging the impact of a strategy designed (I believe) to 'save' the club financially as quickly as possible. Too quickly I think, and yes there's a hefty dose of arrogance, want to do it my way, in the 'revolutionary coaching set up'.

 

This club was on the way to 'ruin' the moment Van Nistlerooy scored against us, Wilde was carried in on a wave of sentiment, not substance and Idiakez skied his penalty in the playoff semifinal. Rupert Lowe has his share of responsibility in that, but a last day of the season survival last year suggests that the 'Dutch Experiment' isn't solely responsible for our situation.

[Fan The Flames]

My Gran is 98 and had a serious chest infection back in September and I went round to see her, she was coughing and spluttering and trying to speak as she beckoned me closer.

She tried to get the words out and I tried to speak for her, do you want a drink, your inhaler, tablets, tissue, is it a big family secret you are trying to tell me, what is it Gran.

She pulled me closer and whispered in my ear "no matter what division you are in you have to have a proper blend of experience and youthful exuberance and all the tippy tappy is no good if you have not got enough wacky wacky”

She better now and back on twenty bennies a day and for what its worth she thinks the relegation battle will go down to the last day

[um pahars]

Whilst I don't disagree with the sentiment (i.e. you need grit and guile as well as 'schexy futball' to get out / survive in the CCC), you do have a tendency to be overly melodramatic.

 

"Almost cost the very existence of the club", is over egging the impact of a strategy designed (I believe) to 'save' the club financially as quickly as possible. .

 

I honestly don't think it was overly melodramatic as I think relegation will cause us massive problems, even bigger than the masive problems we faced when we were relegated last time around as I fear it will result in administration.

 

Of course, we still might bumble along, but if we do go into administration then the points deduction, the inevitable firesale and the legacy of it will cause us huge problems for seasons to come. The very existence of the CLub will be threatened, and even if we do emerge from the other side (as I'm sure we will in some guise), then it will not be pretty.

 

Too quickly I think, and yes there's a hefty dose of arrogance, want to do it my way, in the 'revolutionary coaching set up'.

 

This club was on the way to 'ruin' the moment Van Nistlerooy scored against us, Wilde was carried in on a wave of sentiment, not substance and Idiakez skied his penalty in the playoff semifinal. Rupert Lowe has his share of responsibility in that, but a last day of the season survival last year suggests that the 'Dutch Experiment' isn't solely responsible for our situation.

 

I have never shyed away from being honest that the blame for our predicament should be shared amongst quite a few people, past and present (I reckon our apportionment of where the blame lies would differ, but it's not all Lowe's fault).

 

But my issue with this season is that it wasn't the season to gamble (just as Hone & co. shouldn't have gambled the year before!!!). We had a sense of unity, a promising manager and perhaps the chance to consolidate and bottom out.

 

But for reasons of ignorance, arrogance and God knows what we gambled, a gamble that failed and a gamble that may prove very, very costly.

[derry]

I liked what we were doing at the start of the season, however the defence was weak. After Holmes was injured at QPR the football reverted to 'narrow' and was just young, inexperienced players playing British reserve team football against better opposition.

[SaintRobbie]

Those gifted with 20:20 hindsight on this board 'always knew' that the revolutionary coaching set up / Dutch Experiment / JP would fail. I had scepticism (as I believe you should have with all new managers), but really began to believe after the Derby / Birmingham performances.

 

I am interested if any of the people who were critical from the start had similar wobbles and thought, "**** me! This really could work!"?

 

I think everyone knows my position.

 

This was utter madness from the start. No way Lowe's idea was likely to succeed and his return have brought lack of optimism, division and seen the largest exodus of support from the club in many years. Lowe's return in the summer was the blackest day in Southampton's recent history. At a time we should have been openly seeking a buyer or accepting the best deal on the table (SISU) we put Lowe back in. Utter madness - unless there are 'backup' benefits for our elusive in the shadows shareholders from relegation and administration.

 

All predicted, never believed it could work, hoped it might... but head generally rules my opinions.

 

Lowe is a fool.

[SaintRobbie]

I agree with you AP 100% and knowing the finanacial situation i was pleased we were taking the risk of going with some homegrown talent and adopting a management of youth approach that is the envy of the RoW.

 

It was obviously a daft idea. Never worked when we tried playing youth under Harry. Never worked in any other club, a where a blanced mix of experience and gradual introduction of youth over time is done for good -OBVIOUS - reasons. Always destined to fail.

 

Anybody who wasn't impressed by our team in the early games and buoyed by the prospect that we may just pull this off, is either lying, didn't go the games or it does not suit there personal agenda to admit what you and I have.

Utter rubbish. Those of us who study the whole rather than just our own team were warning that it was only a matter of games before most CCC teams cottoned on to our methodology of playing and started to counter it with professional CCC football - hard, robust, spoiling matches against seasoned pros playing the whole game not running around like well drilled soccer school kids for 15-40 minutes before collapsing.

 

To avoid any after timing I predict Leicester will get promoted and Pearson will be sacked by the start of 2010-11 at the latest just in case Mandaric comes over all loyal for a change. Getting promoted out of the league 1 with their resources and MK Dons as their most serious competitors doesn't quite compare to the task our club has faced.

 

Crap. Leeds are a more wealthy club with higher potential. I dont think NP is a god either - but without the right manager Leicester would have dwelled in League 1 for years... just as Saints will under this regime IMHO.

 

The Youth experiment is still working and although the balance has change its merely an adjustment and no sea change that many would lead us to believe with JPS (a new DUTCH signing) and Saga coming back into the team as preseumably we have saved enough to pay him for the time being. The only regret is that Wotte wasn't appointed after the Palace game in December that followed a disappointing run of results but JP survived because inbetween we beat Reading and we lived off that result too long.

More utter nonsense. The youth experience has FAILED. FAILED. FAILED. We are playing whatever men we can as a priority and building the youth around them out of NECESSITY - simply we dont have enough old school experience now in the depleted squad to fill their positions. We have 2-3 youth players who are good enough. Even then the preference for any sane manager would be to have them on the bench and gradually bring in their talent and on their confidence. We have broken some of our more promising players under this policy - DMG is now a very poor striker.

 

Having said all that i am very confident we will survive in terms of results but remain very concerned about administration. Even if we lose to a massively in form Derby team the games thereafter don't get close to matching the difficulty of our last 7 games and not many of our relegation candidates could have matched that run so we've done well to stay in touch.

We will relegate - again look at the whole. Teams around us are also perking up. We are unlikely to survive - not because of a lack of effort from our professional experienced players - but due to the damage already done.

 

Last 7 games: Birmingham, Ipswich, Cardiff, Preston. Bristol City, Sheff Utd, Swansea.

 

 

Anyone who believes the Derby game is a must win and starts turning up the 'protest' heat if we lose is ignorant of the competition in this league and the dramatic improvement in our recent form in the middle of a very difficult run of games.

Yesterday was not a dramatic improvement in recent form.

 

I honestly think you're on a different planet... or Lowe himself. You look at the situation too narrowly, are too willing to support Lowe's inept decision-making and are too quick to use the financial situation at the start of the season (now irrelevant) as the reason for relegation.

 

Sorry old friend, I think you're too bright to just be niave - your articulate and club-policy mimiking posts make me truly wonder where you are coming from.

[Alain Perrin]

I honestly think you're on a different planet... or Lowe himself. You look at the situation too narrowly, are too willing to support Lowe's inept decision-making and are too quick to use the financial situation at the start of the season (now irrelevant) as the reason for relegation.

 

Sorry old friend, I think you're too bright to just be niave - your articulate and club-policy mimiking posts make me truly wonder where you are coming from.

 

Why is the financial situation now irrelevant? We might be in a better situation than we were because some of the big earners have been loaned out, but my impression is we've still got significant constraints.

[SaintRobbie]

Why is the financial situation now irrelevant? We might be in a better situation than we were because some of the big earners have been loaned out, but my impression is we've still got significant constraints.

 

Its irrelevant because we didnt NEED to pursue a youth policy in order to stay in the CCC. Lowe could have trimmed the squad but retained enough robust experience to ensure survival.

 

The policy NOT the circumstance has led to our demise. There are many ways to skin a cat - taking such a reckless gamble was not necessary and has ended in failure.

[alpine_saint]

Those gifted with 20:20 hindsight on this board 'always knew' that the revolutionary coaching set up / Dutch Experiment / JP would fail. I had scepticism (as I believe you should have with all new managers), but really began to believe after the Derby / Birmingham performances.

 

I am interested if any of the people who were critical from the start had similar wobbles and thought, "**** me! This really could work!"?

 

Nope. Always knew that crock of shiit wouldnt work. Closest I came was to think "OK, I'll give it a bit longer and hope I am proved wrong"

[Alain Perrin]

Nope. Always knew that crock of shiit wouldnt work. Closest I came was to think "OK, I'll give it a bit longer and hope I am proved wrong"

 

To be fair Alpine we could have Alex Ferguson at the helm, with internationals in every position and you'd still find something to be a miserable ****** about.

[SW11_Saint]

I agree with you AP 100% and knowing the finanacial situation i was pleased we were taking the risk of going with some homegrown talent and adopting a management of youth approach that is the envy of the RoW.

Lordy lordy lordy... what colour is the sky on Planet Nineteen?

 

Or perhaps it's a typo and you just mean IoW? Even that would be a stretch to believe though...!

[benjii]

I liked what we were doing at the start of the season, however the defence was weak. After Holmes was injured at QPR the football reverted to 'narrow' and was just young, inexperienced players playing British reserve team football against better opposition.

 

I was going to post something similar but couldn't be bothered. Now, you have, I will pipe-up and agree to some extent.

 

I think QPR was the tipping point in terms of performance. From then on we went downhill. We played pretty well in that game and were stitched up by a terrible piece of linesmanship (and by some ****e defending in the first half). I think that was when the players' confidence took a hit and after that we never looked like scoring much. Also, Holmes was our most important attacking player at the time.

 

What had already become clear by that point though, was that Poortvliet was completely inflexible and had no clue how to actually influence proceedings during matches other than by hoping that "plan A" started to work.

 

Honestly, how anyone can defend Poortvliet's appointment in the cold light of day is quite incredible. Hindsight or no hindsight, this was, managerially at least, a complete nobody. The rationale was, "he's done well on a budget" - well fook me but so has every other non-league level manager who's ever done ok. By definition, if you spend your career ****ing about in the lower leagues and at some point have some limited success then you can state you've "done well on a budget". It wasn't so much a gamble as just plain mental. I liked him to begin with and thought that if he had some better centre backs he may have done ok (would have been interesting to see where we would have been if we had JP Saiejs from day one). Even so, this would not have made his appointment any less bizare.

Edited 8 March, 2009 by benjii

[um pahars]

Honestly, how anyone can defend Poortvliet's appointment in the cold light of day is quite incredible. Hindsight or no hindsight, this was, managerially at least, a complete nobody. The rationale was, "he's done well on a budget" - well fook me but so has every other non-league level manager who's ever done ok. By definition, if you spend your career ****ing about in the lower leagues and at some point have some limited success then you can state you've "done well on a budget". It wasn't so much a gamble as just plain mental

 

Thanks for cheering up a gloomy Sunday evening (you've now got me chuckling at the last bit in bold).

 

 

 

And as payback here's a straight lift from our OS (including grammatical and syntax errors!!!!!) when they were gushing over his CV:

 

 

2007/2008 - Helmond Sport (First Division - 6e - play-offs (one of the lowest budget division playing with kids)

 

2005/2004 - Telstar (First Division - 6th - play-offs) (one of the lowest budget in the division playing with kids)

 

 

Who was responsible for letting that go up there (which the Echo repeated almost verbatim LMFAO:rolleyes:)

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/2306973.Introducing_new_Saints_head_coach_Jan_Poortvliet/

[benjii]

Adam Leitch should get a Pullitzer for that. It's a beautifully crafted bit of work.

[benjii]

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/2306973.Introducing_new_Saints_head_coach_Jan_Poortvliet/

 

Right... just had a closer look at that picture.

 

2 things:

 

1 Look at the Helmond Polo shirt. Look at it. It's a ****ing iron-on transfer or something. They got a job-lot of plain white down ze market and then Dorish the (herbal) tea lady only went and ironed on some frigging Helmond logos.

 

2 Syrup?

[benjii]

Oh, and 3 - why the hell name a Dutch footy team after a province in Afghanistan?

 

Someone's having a laugh at our expense.

[um pahars]

Good old (young) Adam Leitch:

 

"He has built a reputation for forging promotion-winning teams on a limited budget by playing and developing the club's young players - something that must have appealed to Saints."

 

 

"Then came a three season stint with Telstar, where Poortvliet built a team on a tiny budget using youngsters that gradually improved to the point where they reached the play-offs."

 

 

"Last summer Poortvliet tried a fresh challenge with Helmand Sports, another club in the mould of those he had previously managed and the one he shortly will - one with limited money looking for promotion from the country's second tier of football using young players."

 

 

How many times can you get youngsters and limited budgets in one piece LMFAO.:---):---)

 

One can only presume that Lowe had gotten to Leitch who fell for it hook, line and sinker.:confused::confused:

[Nineteen Canteen]

I honestly think you're on a different planet... or Lowe himself. You look at the situation too narrowly, are too willing to support Lowe's inept decision-making and are too quick to use the financial situation at the start of the season (now irrelevant) as the reason for relegation.

 

Sorry old friend, I think you're too bright to just be niave - your articulate and club-policy mimiking posts make me truly wonder where you are coming from.

 

Your response is typical of those who berate what the club has tried to achieve in some very difficult circumstances. You respond with ignorance to those cicrumstances and just try to enforce your own opinions without any substance. Paul Jewell could have got Leicester promoted or even Justin Fashanu, Derak Acorah and an ashtray (Just for Tamesaint).

 

You consider that I am not of this planet but I am not the one suggesting McGoldrick was ever a good striker but recently under Wotte we have seen a different player entirely playing in a deeper role except he is not fit enough to last the 90 mins. Personally, I wouldn't have given him a 3 week contract but there you go, its probably good business with some of the signings in Lowe's absence. Bad decisions are not exclusive to Lowe as far as this club goes.

 

I am quick to use the Financial situation to justify Lowe's decision making, just as quick as you are to dismiss it because it has determined every move this club has made from the moment Lowe walked back in and he has had to make that his priority otherwise all our players would now be on the transfer list and the for sale boards up at Staplewood and Jackson's Farm. The fact you no longer feel it is relevant is not even narrow minded but bloody minded stupidity, complete ignorance or an overriding stubborn refusal, probably based in prejudice, to accept how far this club has fallen without Lowe at the helm - fact.

 

I support this club unconditionally until someone comes in with £50m and the promise of more I'll back whoever is in charge, even Crouch, who I suggested last week Lowe should invite back on the board. Hardly mirroring board policy there but you seem to only read the stuff where you misguidedly believe you can undermine my passion for this club and desire to see it survive. However, if you read my posts they are my own opinions and they are often aligned within the board but often they are not. Is the latter my way of trying to disguise my PR identity, maybe if you are that gulliable and stupid.

 

If Crouch was chairman (god forbid) I would never protest or boycott as what purpse does it serve without an alternative. I dislike Crouch for treating fans as donkeys, stupid enough to be mesmerised by his carrots of investment and crazy false prophecy. Crouch talked a good game but Lowe has been prepared to take the necessary and unpopular and at times wrong decisions to keep this club just about off its knees. We can only hope and support the club to ensure the efforts of the board payoff.

 

I don't have much time for Eric Daniels at the moment but having banked with his organisation for many years I am not going to create a huge amount of work and hassle for myself to move my accounts, mortgages and investments in a fit of pique because I am unhappy with some of his decisions. Am I? That would be like boycotting my football team because I don't care that much for the man in charge so choose to stop my hobby I have enjoyed for my years. Life is short and I will not falter from supporting my club. I can't wait for those ST applications to be sent out because if nothing else it will be the first poistive sign we've had in a while the club is on a slightly firmer footing.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Lordy lordy lordy... what colour is the sky on Planet Nineteen?

 

Or perhaps it's a typo and you just mean IoW? Even that would be a stretch to believe though...!

 

If you are going to adopt a youth policy because you are hamstrung by 2 years of financial mis-management on a grand scale why shouldn't you adopt the Dutch ethos that is generally regarded as the best way to coach youth football and why our FA and many others no doubt have visited their facilities.

 

The Dutch way, will still work for us and Saejis is a signing I doubt the 20 minute Messiah could have plucked out. He would have gone looking for Lucketti and checking what other clubs he didn't want to play against before we signed on loan.

 

Perhaps you'd prefer we'd signed players like Dean Windass to keep us from the drop?

[Wopper]

Rupert is an arsehole.