I blame Hitler for our demise

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Where did it all go wrong I hear so many Saints fans ask? Today's Echo has started to spill some beans but I believe we have to go back to 1939 to really get to the root of the cause and so I have this morning especially written this for Ponty.

 

I blame Hitler for the demise of Southampton FC

 

If there had never been a second World War, there would never have been the austerity and then the backlash which morphed into the swinging but decadent sixties. Dwindling discipline, the end of National Service, Pans People and liberal parenting led to a social breakdown and an increase in violent gang culture which festered itself our national game. Football violence originating with the late 60’s skinhead movement, grew in the 70s and then nearly destroyed football in the 80s with Mrs Thatcher and the Chairman of Luton Town leading the charge. Consequently our stadiums were turned into zoos with fencing, pens and barbed wire and the beautiful game was watched by only the committed or the insane. Then came Heysel, Bradford and Hillsborough which caused a rethink and before we knew it came the siren call for newer safer, sterile all sitting stadia. That was the death knell for The Dell and although we didn’t know it at the time, the beginning of the end. The 1980s was Saints most successful decade, we competed with the country’s elite but as soon as The Dell became a liability in the wake of the Justice Taylor report we were on the slippery slope which ended at Mark Fry's door.

 

The gentlemen Saints directors grew anxious, there was still plenty of red wine in the Board room cabinet but The Dell could not hold more than 15,000 all seated not enough to sustain a top-flight club for very long. We had to move but we had been unsuccessfully trying to find a site for a new home for nigh on half a century and even if we found somewhere who would finance it.

 

Something had to give and, so it was, Guy Askham and his merry band of "director fans" decided the way forward was to turn Southampton into a PLC and raise funds through the big financial institutions in the City. A reverse takeover was the quickest route to accomplish this and before we knew it a Cotswold farmer with little knowledge of the workings of the game arrived in our midst to be our saviour. Rupert Lowe may not have known his way around a football pitch but he knew a bit about leisure homes and the way the City worked and in 2001 St Marys was unveiled to an impressed fan base. “We build it you fill it” was the bullish challenge from the ruddy cheeked Chairman but the fans responded and for a brief period it looked as if we would financially flourish in our new home. But football was changing, Sky money and the formation of the Premiership widened the gap between the “haves and the have nots. Smaller clubs like Wigan and Fulham got "sugar daddy" investment from outside and grew bigger. Income from gate revenue became of secondary importance – owning a stadium good enough to host a competitive England international was no longer the biggest criteria in becoming successful or even sustainable. Football was now an incendiary business to be in and without a Russian billionaire you needed a steady, capable hand on the tiller.

 

Rupert Lowe was not that man. He had qualities but he had weaknesses. He also had some bad luck. The false accusations levelled at David Jones were very unfortunate but Lowe knew he had to act and so we lost a good manager and the merry-go-round that started turning when Souness quit grew in pace. Jones’s replacement, Glenn Hoddle did well but again misfortune in the shape of a predatory yobbish Tottenham board intervened and we had lost a second good manager in as many years. Hoddle’s departure was a big blow to Lowe who decided there and then not to be a repeat performance. He would take a more active involvement in football decisions and instead appoint a Head Coach type figure as a manager so when he then left for pastures new there would not be the disruption experienced when Hoddle left for his spiritual home.

 

There then followed some bad managerial appointments. If you leave the Strachan appointment to one side and with the benefit of hindsight Stuart Gray, Steve Wigley, Paul Sturrock, Harry Redknapp and even George Burley all failed to live up to expectations and no club survives in the Premiership when they change their managers twice in one season. If you then throw into the Staplewood mix a forthright, opinionated ex England rugby coach and a clown called Clifford, then it is a little wonder our last season in the top flight and first season in the CCC was so disastrous. Lowe had to go and, go he did but it got worse. His main adversary was Michael Wilde, a plausible (to most except Jonah, SoG, GM and Nickh) wealthy fan who promised investment but instead delivered a completely wasteful executive team who showed little care and attention when belt tightening time came around. It was left to one time Wilde ally, Leon Crouch to then oust the executives which was done at considerable cost while meanwhile the club under the now totally disinterested Burley plummeted towards Division One. Rather belatedly Crouch took off his rose coloured spectacles but avoiding relegation was a close shave. Crouch had made a mistake of not inviting the highly unpopular and mistrusted Wilde back onto the Board and so the inevitable happened – Lowe and Wilde returned promising a Dutch revolution…… and you know the rest. Lets hope that nice Mr Fry can deliver us!

[Give it to Ron]

Lol some great writing there Duncan - loved it.

[Whitey Grandad]

Is this another proof of Godwin's Law?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[SaintDonkey]

An excellent article FF!

 

I have to agree with everything you've said. I would also add that I think the restricted capacity of the Dell in the 90s lost us a generation of potential fans. When you sell out every match it's hard for the casual fan to get a foot in the door and many were lost to the big clubs through blanket TV coverage or lost to football altogether.

 

One point of disagreement, personally I'd look back to Kaiser Wilhelm II rather than Hitler. We were never the force again after the great war

Edited 5 May, 2009 by SaintDonkey
typoo

[ladysaint]

Thoroughly enjoyed that read, thanks Duncan.

[Leslie Charteris]

Great post, it sums up the current, sad reality perfectly. This should be printed out, framed, put on the boardroom wall and read by anyone who takes any responsibility on that board.

[Scudamore]

I blame Ponty

[Nineteen Canteen]

Where did it all go wrong I hear so many Saints fans ask? Today's Echo has started to spill some beans but I believe we have to go back to 1939 to really get to the root of the cause and so I have this morning especially written this for Ponty.

 

I blame Hitler for the demise of Southampton FC

 

If there had never been a second World War, there would never have been the austerity and then the backlash which morphed into the swinging but decadent sixties. Dwindling discipline, the end of National Service, Pans People and liberal parenting led to a social breakdown and an increase in violent gang culture which festered itself our national game. Football violence originating with the late 60’s skinhead movement, grew in the 70s and then nearly destroyed football in the 80s with Mrs Thatcher and the Chairman of Luton Town leading the charge. Consequently our stadiums were turned into zoos with fencing, pens and barbed wire and the beautiful game was watched by only the committed or the insane. Then came Heysel, Bradford and Hillsborough which caused a rethink and before we knew it came the siren call for newer safer, sterile all sitting stadia. That was the death knell for The Dell and although we didn’t know it at the time, the beginning of the end. The 1980s was Saints most successful decade, we competed with the country’s elite but as soon as The Dell became a liability in the wake of the Justice Taylor report we were on the slippery slope which ended at Mark Fry's door.

 

The gentlemen Saints directors grew anxious, there was still plenty of red wine in the Board room cabinet but The Dell could not hold more than 15,000 all seated not enough to sustain a top-flight club for very long. We had to move but we had been unsuccessfully trying to find a site for a new home for nigh on half a century and even if we found somewhere who would finance it.

 

Something had to give and, so it was, Guy Askham and his merry band of "director fans" decided the way forward was to turn Southampton into a PLC and raise funds through the big financial institutions in the City. A reverse takeover was the quickest route to accomplish this and before we knew it a Cotswold farmer with little knowledge of the workings of the game arrived in our midst to be our saviour. Rupert Lowe may not have known his way around a football pitch but he knew a bit about leisure homes and the way the City worked and in 2001 St Marys was unveiled to an impressed fan base. “We build it you fill it” was the bullish challenge from the ruddy cheeked Chairman but the fans responded and for a brief period it looked as if we would financially flourish in our new home. But football was changing, Sky money and the formation of the Premiership widened the gap between the “haves and the have nots. Smaller clubs like Wigan and Fulham got "sugar daddy" investment from outside and grew bigger. Income from gate revenue became of secondary importance – owning a stadium good enough to host a competitive England international was no longer the biggest criteria in becoming successful or even sustainable. Football was now an incendiary business to be in and without a Russian billionaire you needed a steady, capable hand on the tiller.

 

Rupert Lowe was not that man. He had qualities but he had weaknesses. He also had some bad luck. The false accusations levelled at David Jones were very unfortunate but Lowe knew he had to act and so we lost a good manager and the merry-go-round that started turning when Souness quit grew in pace. Jones’s replacement, Glenn Hoddle did well but again misfortune in the shape of a predatory yobbish Tottenham board intervened and we had lost a second good manager in as many years. Hoddle’s departure was a big blow to Lowe who decided there and then not to be a repeat performance. He would take a more active involvement in football decisions and instead appoint a Head Coach type figure as a manager so when he then left for pastures new there would not be the disruption experienced when Hoddle left for his spiritual home.

 

There then followed some bad managerial appointments. If you leave the Strachan appointment to one side and with the benefit of hindsight Stuart Gray, Steve Wigley, Paul Sturrock, Harry Redknapp and even George Burley all failed to live up to expectations and no club survives in the Premiership when they change their managers twice in one season. If you then throw into the Staplewood mix a forthright, opinionated ex England rugby coach and a clown called Clifford, then it is a little wonder our last season in the top flight and first season in the CCC was so disastrous. Lowe had to go and, go he did but it got worse. His main adversary was Michael Wilde, a plausible (to most except Jonah, SoG, GM and Nickh) wealthy fan who promised investment but instead delivered a completely wasteful executive team who showed little care and attention when belt tightening time came around. It was left to one time Wilde ally, Leon Crouch to then oust the executives which was done at considerable cost while meanwhile the club under the now totally disinterested Burley plummeted towards Division One. Rather belatedly Crouch took off his rose coloured spectacles but avoiding relegation was a close shave. Crouch had made a mistake of not inviting the highly unpopular and mistrusted Wilde back onto the Board and so the inevitable happened – Lowe and Wilde returned promising a Dutch revolution…… and you know the rest. Lets hope that nice Mr Fry can deliver us!

 

Great read Duncan. Something there for everyone to enjoy.

[Pilchards]

That was awesome, I ate a 6 incher subway reading that...!

 

Oh, and

 

 

Hitler Out!

[Weston Saint]

Good article Duncan. Enjoyed reading it.

[OldNick]

Where did it all go wrong I hear so many Saints fans ask? Today's Echo has started to spill some beans but I believe we have to go back to 1939 to really get to the root of the cause and so I have this morning especially written this for Ponty.

 

I blame Hitler for the demise of Southampton FC

 

If there had never been a second World War, there would never have been the austerity and then the backlash which morphed into the swinging but decadent sixties. Dwindling discipline, the end of National Service, Pans People and liberal parenting led to a social breakdown and an increase in violent gang culture which festered itself our national game. Football violence originating with the late 60’s skinhead movement, grew in the 70s and then nearly destroyed football in the 80s with Mrs Thatcher and the Chairman of Luton Town leading the charge. Consequently our stadiums were turned into zoos with fencing, pens and barbed wire and the beautiful game was watched by only the committed or the insane. Then came Heysel, Bradford and Hillsborough which caused a rethink and before we knew it came the siren call for newer safer, sterile all sitting stadia. That was the death knell for The Dell and although we didn’t know it at the time, the beginning of the end. The 1980s was Saints most successful decade, we competed with the country’s elite but as soon as The Dell became a liability in the wake of the Justice Taylor report we were on the slippery slope which ended at Mark Fry's door.

 

The gentlemen Saints directors grew anxious, there was still plenty of red wine in the Board room cabinet but The Dell could not hold more than 15,000 all seated not enough to sustain a top-flight club for very long. We had to move but we had been unsuccessfully trying to find a site for a new home for nigh on half a century and even if we found somewhere who would finance it.

 

Something had to give and, so it was, Guy Askham and his merry band of "director fans" decided the way forward was to turn Southampton into a PLC and raise funds through the big financial institutions in the City. A reverse takeover was the quickest route to accomplish this and before we knew it a Cotswold farmer with little knowledge of the workings of the game arrived in our midst to be our saviour. Rupert Lowe may not have known his way around a football pitch but he knew a bit about leisure homes and the way the City worked and in 2001 St Marys was unveiled to an impressed fan base. “We build it you fill it” was the bullish challenge from the ruddy cheeked Chairman but the fans responded and for a brief period it looked as if we would financially flourish in our new home. But football was changing, Sky money and the formation of the Premiership widened the gap between the “haves and the have nots. Smaller clubs like Wigan and Fulham got "sugar daddy" investment from outside and grew bigger. Income from gate revenue became of secondary importance – owning a stadium good enough to host a competitive England international was no longer the biggest criteria in becoming successful or even sustainable. Football was now an incendiary business to be in and without a Russian billionaire you needed a steady, capable hand on the tiller.

 

Rupert Lowe was not that man. He had qualities but he had weaknesses. He also had some bad luck. The false accusations levelled at David Jones were very unfortunate but Lowe knew he had to act and so we lost a good manager and the merry-go-round that started turning when Souness quit grew in pace. Jones’s replacement, Glenn Hoddle did well but again misfortune in the shape of a predatory yobbish Tottenham board intervened and we had lost a second good manager in as many years. Hoddle’s departure was a big blow to Lowe who decided there and then not to be a repeat performance. He would take a more active involvement in football decisions and instead appoint a Head Coach type figure as a manager so when he then left for pastures new there would not be the disruption experienced when Hoddle left for his spiritual home.

 

There then followed some bad managerial appointments. If you leave the Strachan appointment to one side and with the benefit of hindsight Stuart Gray, Steve Wigley, Paul Sturrock, Harry Redknapp and even George Burley all failed to live up to expectations and no club survives in the Premiership when they change their managers twice in one season. If you then throw into the Staplewood mix a forthright, opinionated ex England rugby coach and a clown called Clifford, then it is a little wonder our last season in the top flight and first season in the CCC was so disastrous. Lowe had to go and, go he did but it got worse. His main adversary was Michael Wilde, a plausible (to most except Jonah, SoG, GM and Nickh) wealthy fan who promised investment but instead delivered a completely wasteful executive team who showed little care and attention when belt tightening time came around. It was left to one time Wilde ally, Leon Crouch to then oust the executives which was done at considerable cost while meanwhile the club under the now totally disinterested Burley plummeted towards Division One. Rather belatedly Crouch took off his rose coloured spectacles but avoiding relegation was a close shave. Crouch had made a mistake of not inviting the highly unpopular and mistrusted Wilde back onto the Board and so the inevitable happened – Lowe and Wilde returned promising a Dutch revolution…… and you know the rest. Lets hope that nice Mr Fry can deliver us!

Duncan you are getting back to yor best again.That is more even handed than I have seen for a long time.

It comes down to us all making misjudgements and if you and others decide time is up on the division at the club then we can all move on.I have tried to do so, last week with my LM thread (which was met with a little scepticism) and wish that fans like yourself also try and bring this to an end so the new start is fresh.

[Mole]

I blame Ponty

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pontification

 

pontification

 

The act of speaking out for the purpose of hearing onself speak.

Posturing...speaking to people that don't really care what you say one way or another since you're speaking solely to front yourself as "someone in charge".

Speech or written communication that is generally pointless except to cast favorable light upon the speaker or author as if the message were a pronouncement from on high.

Usually full of ****.

 

[Nineteen Canteen]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pontification

 

pontification

 

The act of speaking out for the purpose of hearing onself speak.

Posturing...speaking to people that don't really care what you say one way or another since you're speaking solely to front yourself as "someone in charge".

Speech or written communication that is generally pointless except to cast favorable light upon the speaker or author as if the message were a pronouncement from on high.

Usually full of ****.

 

 

Oh how we laughed at the wit

[Mole]

Oh how we laughed at the wit

 

Don't start Gordon.

[alpine_saint]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pontification

 

pontification

 

The act of speaking out for the purpose of hearing onself speak.

Posturing...speaking to people that don't really care what you say one way or another since you're speaking solely to front yourself as "someone in charge".

Speech or written communication that is generally pointless except to cast favorable light upon the speaker or author as if the message were a pronouncement from on high.

Usually full of ****.

 

 

That reminds me...

 

havent seen a post from Franks cousin recently..

[fareham saint phil]

not sure how to incorporate Hilter and Itchen bridge into the song

 

We want hitler out

said we want hitler out

 

will have to do

[SaintRichmond]

..... Yes, even though he changed his name by Deed Poll, we all knew who he was ..... ( The giveaway was his Mean Green Machine )

[Scudamore]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pontification

 

pontification

 

The act of speaking out for the purpose of hearing onself speak.

Posturing...speaking to people that don't really care what you say one way or another since you're speaking solely to front yourself as "someone in charge".

Speech or written communication that is generally pointless except to cast favorable light upon the speaker or author as if the message were a pronouncement from on high.

Usually full of ****.

 

 

Is your picture next to that entry then?

[Mole]

Is your picture next to that entry then?

 

No, find me next to...

 

bombastic

 

means alomst the same as fantastic but better, like a bomb exploding

[70's Mike]

Dunc

i think you should write a book

[Scudamore]

No, find me next to...

 

bombastic

 

means alomst the same as fantastic but better, like a bomb exploding

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bombastard

 

This one seems a little more apt.

[Mole]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bombastard

 

This one seems a little more apt.

 

I would never argue with THE professor.

[Kaiser Soze]

Excellent read.

[Ponty]

Thanks for the dedication.

[warsash saint]

Great read except the quote about losing the 'good manager', Dave Jones.

 

We were langrishing in a relegation place & playing sh*te when Jones was releaved of his duties due to the incorrect accusations against him - he should have been sacked for his abilities as a football manager.

[Badger]

Another thing I can never forgive Hitler for,if it wasn't for his bloody silly antics the Skates would not have held on to the FA Cup for so long. This is often glibly overlooked by the national media when listing Hitler's faults.

[Gingeletiss]

Thanks for the dedication.

 

Lol........you've worked for it, so it's deserved;)

[Ponty]

Yep. My wish to look forward in hope before we get around to looking back in anger is a millstone around my neck, and no mistake.

[OldNick]

Another thing I can never forgive Hitler for,if it wasn't for his bloody silly antics the Skates would not have held on to the FA Cup for so long. This is often glibly overlooked by the national media when listing Hitler's faults.

I agree, in fact if it was not for the war they wouldnt have been so successful after it as all the servicemen down there had to play there.

[Mole]

Yep. My wish to look forward in hope before we get around to looking back in anger is a millstone around my neck, and no mistake.

 

I take it you're an Oasis fan.

[Ponty]

I take it you're an Oasis fan.

That's why that seemed familiar as I typed it! No, I'm not as it happens.

[Scummer]

Great read except the quote about losing the 'good manager', Dave Jones.

 

We were langrishing in a relegation place & playing sh*te when Jones was releaved of his duties due to the incorrect accusations against him - he should have been sacked for his abilities as a football manager.

 

He actually did pretty well up to the point where the allegations were made, we were quite comfortable in the league. We then slid down after that point.

[Gingeletiss]

Ponty...it is each to his own. At School I was facinated by History, it allowed me to see who/how and why. Saints were a well run club, something went wrong, and I want to know what. We have all speculated this last three years, now some of the truth is about to come out. Those that arn't interested need not comment on threads where, those that are, deem to comment. By stating that it is daft to look back, you cause the very divisions, you claim exsist, by looking back........so self defeating I'd say..........IMHO of course.

[Toadhall Saint]

Good read and succinctly put.

[Foxstone]

The words "Wilde" and "plausible" and "Wealthy" are quite amusing conjuncts if they had'nt turned out to be so bleeding wrong !

 

Good Read nevertheless.

[OldNick]

Ginge these words from your post is what concerns me 'now some of the truth is about to come out.' All should come out not just the bits that suits the politics of certain people. Do you agree?

[Ponty]

Ponty...it is each to his own. At School I was facinated by History, it allowed me to see who/how and why. Saints were a well run club, something went wrong, and I want to know what. We have all speculated this last three years, now some of the truth is about to come out. Those that arn't interested need not comment on threads where, those that are, deem to comment. By stating that it is daft to look back, you cause the very divisions, you claim exsist, by looking back........so self defeating I'd say..........IMHO of course.

On another thread somewhere I state my desire to sit down with a book and read all about the possible underhanded goings on at SMS, and the Dell before that, and I stand by that. I just believe that the time for that is after we've been reassured that there is a future for the club. I've no problem with other people viewing things differently, but having digs at me for not sharing the commonly held bitterness does make me somewhat defensive about my standpoint.

[Shandy_Top_89]

I take it you're an Oasis fan.

 

Or perhaps a fan of the work of John Osborne

[rallyboy]

In his day Hitler delivered a new stadium and he also sorted out the motor industry so by that you have to think he could have saved both the Transit factory and St Marys.

 

Maybe we should try having a deluded lunatic in charge surrounded by yes men, blindly following a suicidal course of action....

[Graffito]

I see Maggie Thatcher was involved. I just knew it.

[Fan The Flames]

Great lunchtime read, as I have stated before I believe it is all the fault of the northerners. If there was a more equitable merging of the football league and southern league and not one up one down. We would have been in the top flight a lot earlier, we would have moved from The Dell earlier (or expanded properly) and therefore clear of the St Marys debt that has weighed us down the past two years.

[Pancake]

Or perhaps a fan of the work of John Osborne

 

Or even Bowie and Eno.

[camdijk]

Great read there Duncan, ever thought about a career in writing;-)

[eelpie]

If Lowe came to us as a successful developer of retirement homes, why did he cease following this line of business within the SLH remit? Maybe if he had, SLH would have had more income, and his recent claim that SLH was a business independent of SFC might have carried more weight with the FL

[St Marco]

Great read, thanks for that

[The9]

In that case he's to blame for Saints AND Newport County (who had played 1 drawn won lost one in original Div 2 when war broke out [i think the draw was against Saints, actually], then relegated embarrassingly down to the bottom two divisions forever more when peace took over in 1945). Damn, and to think I used to like the guy.

 

Ok, not really.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

In his day Hitler delivered a new stadium and he also sorted out the motor industry so by that you have to think he could have saved both the Transit factory and St Marys.

 

Maybe we should try having a deluded lunatic in charge surrounded by yes men, blindly following a suicidal course of action....

 

....Oh!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Great read there Duncan, ever thought about a career in writing;-)

 

 

I did but then I failed my English A level

I hated Chaucer and TS Eliott

[Lets B Avenue]

I did but then I failed my English A level

I hated Chaucer and TS Eliott

 

Ending up at ITN by mistake then.

[lamanga]

That had it all - laughter, tears, bit like a best man speech. Cheers for the read.