Pompey Takeover Saga

So the trusts plan has just been announced that they want to get a loan from the council to buy the stadium. So to rid a club of debt, they want to create more debt. Their credit rating is terrible - three administrations in recent history, why should they use council taxpayers money? Why would the council trust a three times failed business with its money?

Your forgetting the £14m odd worth of parachute payment we are technically due.

We alread have in escrow £1.6m (season ticket sales 8,000 @ £200 average)

£1m from 4 HNW individuals

£2m from from pledges (I assume 33% reduction due to gameplaying or no money now)

£1.45m bridging loan from council.

Total £20.05m

Known Expenditure

Chainrai £2.75m

Loan payback £1.8m (working on the basis we will pay interest)

Players £2m

Staff £0.85m

Expected Wage Budget for 2012/13 £4m

Transfer Budget £0.5m (to pay for player loans primarily)

Total £11.9m

Delta £8.15m

Extras to be paid, transfer fees, non playing staff

Extra income sponsorship, crowds above 8k, shirt sponsorship

Rough breakdown

I know it's wrong, and I've tried to stifle the thoughts, but that Penny Mordaunt would get it, skate or not.

Neil Allen ‏@pn_neil_allen

 

Trust have offered £2.75m to Portpin for Fratton Park. #Pompey #pst

 

#dreaming

Can't see PCC providing a loan, they still need to make goodness knows how much in budget cuts as it is...

Your forgetting the £14m odd worth of parachute payment we are technically due.

 

We alread have in escrow £1.6m (season ticket sales 8,000 @ £200 average)

£1m from 4 HNW individuals

£2m from from pledges (I assume 33% reduction due to gameplaying or no money now)

£1.45m bridging loan from council.

 

Total £20.05m

 

Known Expenditure

 

Chainrai £2.75m

Loan payback £1.8m (working on the basis we will pay interest)

Players £2m

Staff £0.85m

Expected Wage Budget for 2012/13 £4m

Transfer Budget £0.5m (to pay for player loans primarily)

Total £11.9m

 

Delta £8.15m

 

Extras to be paid, transfer fees, non playing staff

Extra income sponsorship, crowds above 8k, shirt sponsorship

 

Rough breakdown

1. I suspect you are underestimating the footballing creditor debt level by a large chunk, even if deferred etc... surely wise would be to factor this in accurately

2. Given the hideousness of the financial mess of the last 3 years, if you have a balance of 8mil in PPs, would not the ethical, moral and RIGHT thing to do with this cash not be to increase the offer to creditors? You know actually pay some of the bills?

...sorry forgot for a moment - thought I was talking about a club that actuallgave a sh!t about morals, ethics and what is RIGHT... how silly of me.

The PP are over 2 years are they not? and so surely the budget should be done so accordingly. Is BC really going to accept 2.75m when he is owed 18m? Surely if he was going to accept that low figure he woulod have walked and not considered taking you over?

Expected Wage Budget for 2012/13 £4m

Which equates to roughly twice the average weekly wage for a League One player...

1. I suspect you are underestimating the footballing creditor debt level by a large chunk, even if deferred etc... surely wise would be to factor this in accurately

 

2. Given the hideousnbess of the financial mess of the last 3 years, if you ahve a balance of 8mil, would not the ethical, moral and RIGHT thing to do with this cash not be to increase the offer to creditors? You know actually pay some of the bills?

Councils often have loan funds to help small businesses, but I am not sure that they are really thinking about football clubs. If the council did lend them money then they are opening one hell of a huge can of worms and suspect that they would also lay themselves open to a huge number of legal challenges. Cutting the budget even further for, for example, disabled schools so that they can save Poopey isn't great. Anyway, looking at this http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/coun20100209_budget_appA.pdf there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of spare cash.

Your forgetting the £14m odd worth of parachute payment we are technically due.

 

We alread have in escrow £1.6m (season ticket sales 8,000 @ £200 average)

£1m from 4 HNW individuals

£2m from from pledges (I assume 33% reduction due to gameplaying or no money now)

£1.45m bridging loan from council.

 

Total £20.05m

 

Known Expenditure

 

Chainrai £2.75m

Loan payback £1.8m (working on the basis we will pay interest)

Players £2m

Staff £0.85m

Expected Wage Budget for 2012/13 £4m

Transfer Budget £0.5m (to pay for player loans primarily)

Total £11.9m

 

Delta £8.15m

 

Extras to be paid, transfer fees, non playing staff

Extra income sponsorship, crowds above 8k, shirt sponsorship

 

Rough breakdown

Assumming that is correct (I happen to think it it incredibly optomistic) I am sure Lawrence, TBH, Kitson and Kanu (Noted you have made any allowance for him)

Will be delighted to hear there is an 8 million pound pot floating about.

Your forgetting the £14m odd worth of parachute payment we are technically due.

 

We alread have in escrow £1.6m (season ticket sales 8,000 @ £200 average)

£1m from 4 HNW individuals

£2m from from pledges (I assume 33% reduction due to gameplaying or no money now)

£1.45m bridging loan from council.

 

Total £20.05m

 

Known Expenditure

 

Chainrai £2.75m

Loan payback £1.8m (working on the basis we will pay interest)

Players £2m

Staff £0.85m

Expected Wage Budget for 2012/13 £4m

Transfer Budget £0.5m (to pay for player loans primarily)

Total £11.9m

 

Delta £8.15m

 

Extras to be paid, transfer fees, non playing staff

Extra income sponsorship, crowds above 8k, shirt sponsorship

 

Rough breakdown

How can a £500,000 transfer budget be justified, even if it is for loans? That is a similar figure to what the non secured creditors are getting!

If you really have a surplus, shouldn't that go to the creditors perhaps...? Kitson, Kanu and Ben Haim may be interested in that news aswell... (which is why it is unlikely to be true)

A £4m playing budget is still large for League One. How can that be justified? You should have one of the smallest budgets, use youth team and development players and the money should goto the creditors.

I think you have also left out a lot of football debt, which the parachute payments will go towards.

Council loans should be for starting new business, not funding necromancy.

Can't see PCC providing a loan, they still need to make goodness knows how much in budget cuts as it is...

http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/yourcouncil/17417.html - Appendix C

All very nice FMPR, but Kanu alone wants £3m.

A profile of the prospective new chairman of PFC.

He likes to dissolve companies it seems,and has one liquidation to his credit.....

http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/900574900

A profile of the prospective new chairman of PFC.

He likes to dissolve companies it seems,and has one liquidation to his credit.....

http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/900574900

Perfect. You couldn't make it up.

A profile of the prospective new chairman of PFC.

He likes to dissolve companies it seems,and has one liquidation to his credit.....

http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/900574900

WAVELENGTH PROPERTIES LIMITED

I know of some land that might be available for development in the area soon.

TAPS (HOLDINGS) LIMITED

Might be able to help with the fatty pipes.

AMTECH EMPLOYEE BENEFIT TRUST LIMITED

1. I suspect you are underestimating the footballing creditor debt level by a large chunk, even if deferred etc... surely wise would be to factor this in accurately

 

2. Given the hideousness of the financial mess of the last 3 years, if you have a balance of 8mil in PPs, would not the ethical, moral and RIGHT thing to do with this cash not be to increase the offer to creditors? You know actually pay some of the bills?

 

...sorry forgot for a moment - thought I was talking about a club that actuallgave a sh!t about morals, ethics and what is RIGHT... how silly of me.

1. If I had an inkling on the value I would have put it down but I dont

2. Yea it would be the ethical, moral and right thing to do. But as that world generally doesnt exist I suspect we and others will pass. For example with Clyne you did not pay what Palace wanted and agreed a compromise. That is what one failed CVA and another one has done. Not right I know but its happened.

Assumming that is correct (I happen to think it it incredibly optomistic) I am sure Lawrence, TBH, Kitson and Kanu (Noted you have made any allowance for him)

Will be delighted to hear there is an 8 million pound pot floating about.

Thats what the £2m is for. There is £8m in the pot but a significant portion of that will go on transfer fees. We ow £1m to Bari for Huseklepp as one example.

How can a £500,000 transfer budget be justified, even if it is for loans? That is a similar figure to what the non secured creditors are getting!

 

If you really have a surplus, shouldn't that go to the creditors perhaps...? Kitson, Kanu and Ben Haim may be interested in that news aswell... (which is why it is unlikely to be true)

 

A £4m playing budget is still large for League One. How can that be justified? You should have one of the smallest budgets, use youth team and development players and the money should goto the creditors.

 

I think you have also left out a lot of football debt, which the parachute payments will go towards.

See above. If a break even position can be maintained a £4m wage budget is doable. The creditors have agreed a compromise rightly or wrongly. How did Aviva feel when you didnt pay the full ammount back and then bought Lambert for £1m? Surely that should of gone to Aviva?

All very nice FMPR, but Kanu alone wants £3m.

I want to win the euromillions tomorrow but wanting and getting are two entirely different debates. I think he will get some but considering hes saying hes owed some monies from 2006 I find that hard to believe.

... so lets say the Trust get the nod... what chance do they then have of the '3000' actually stumping up the full grand?

 

EDIT darn was beaten to it....

Wasnt it said that someone missed his mortage payment so he could pledge not once, not twice, but THREE times?

If he missed a very important payment to pledge £300 where does he expect to find the other £2700? I wondow how many others have also pledged without actually thinking how they plan to pay the remainder?

For example with Clyne you did not pay what Palace wanted and agreed a compromise. That is what one failed CVA and another one has done. Not right I know but its happened..

Not enough in the world for that comparison. WTF?

I want to win the euromillions tomorrow but wanting and getting are two entirely different debates. I think he will get some but considering hes saying hes owed some monies from 2006 I find that hard to believe.

You do?

Nobody else does.

Again, after everything we've seen them go through over the last few years I shouldn't be even slightly surprised, but I'm struggling to beleive that they actually think this proposal might fly.

I mean, come on now, really. Enough is enough.

Wasnt it said that someone missed his mortage payment so he could pledge not once, not twice, but THREE times?

 

If he missed a very important payment to pledge £300 where does he expect to find the other £2700? I wondow how many others have also pledged without actually thinking how they plan to pay the remainder?

They didn't think they'd ever have to and, to be honest, that hasn't changed.

 

 

 

See above. If a break even position can be maintained a £4m wage budget is doable. The creditors have agreed a compromise rightly or wrongly. How did Aviva feel when you didnt pay the full ammount back and then bought Lambert for £1m? Surely that should of gone to Aviva?

 

.

SFC had already paid close to 16mil in interest and capital repayment + approx 10 mil form Liebherr after the takeover + another 4mil as we have returned to the prem - see that was factored into the compromise so total stadium loan was around 28mil, total paid back in 12 years 30mil so although they have lost a bit of interest, I think that puts it a little more into perspective that 0.4p on the pound your creditors are getting -

...why is it that no one from Pompey wants to make a feckin stand and claim their club back properly, and get back some morality and pride back into the club, even if it means playing kids in L2 for several years?

... So Pompey new new co will storm the league with a gate of 8000.... so tell me if its so easy, how come other clubs with more fans, better infrastructure etc have struggled to get out that league? Could it be more realistic transfer and wage budgets in line with revenue?

So from what FMPR said, looks like the Trust's bid is based entirely on back of an envelope maths.

Being less optimistic...

They're only due half of that £14M parachute payment in the next year (assuming that none of it has already been forwarded.)

Kanu's legal bid has to fail (and be resolved before 10 August I'd imagine)

The other three 'sticky' contracts need to be sorted out.

Ground maintenance is an issue.

They still owe money to clubs for previous transfers.

There's no chance of getting season ticket money up front.

A loan from a council already facing a deficit to a company with a shockingly bad credit rating is by no means guaranteed.

Chanrai may not accept that offer.

Private medical expenses are expected to be paid by the club these days.

Training facilities need to be bought or hired.

Probably relegation to League 2 will further dent income looking further out.

Does the 3M in pledges include HNW individuals or not?

SFC had already paid close to 16mil in interest and capital repayment + approx 10 mil form Liebherr after the takeover + another 4mil as we have returned to the prem - see that was factored into the compromise so total stadium loan was around 28mil' date=' total paid back in 12 years 30mil[/b'] so although they have lost a bit of interest, I think that puts it a little more into perspective that 0.4p on the pound your creditors are getting -

 

...why is it that no one from Pompey wants to make a feckin stand and claim their club back properly, and get back some morality and pride back into the club, even if it means playing kids in L2 for several years?

 

... So Pompey new new co will storm the league with a gate of 8000.... so tell me if its so easy, how come other clubs with more fans, better infrastructure etc have struggled to get out that league? Could it be more realistic transfer and wage budgets in line with revenue?

Is that true? Genuine question as I had not seen that anywhere before?

It so I am even prouder about my club, The Admin was pretty hard to take even when it was over reasonably small sums compared to others, if we did a deal that actually took care of our creditors should we rise through the leagues but helped us should we faulter then thats alot of back scratching and should leave us with a very good name.

To get back in the prem knowing we have done our best to satisfy those that may have lost money as opposed to wiping 98% of debt and fleacing local small bussiness' is a huge thing and well done to those involved.

Thing is there IS a way of the trust doing this - even without major initial funding, given that they have a CVA potentially in place IF they had a realistic and ethical business plan that involved paying off debts over a 5 year period and scraping everything else back to the bare bones...and offering creditors compromise terms that mean increased percentages based on any surplus revenues generated - but IF by some miracle their bid does win, it already seems likely that they will once again spend more on wages/transfers than most others, and simply reenter the debt cycle... fricken disgraceful really, but you need to put some of the balme on the FA and FL for allowing clubs to get away with it...

Would it not be better for the FA/FL having some kind of start up funding loan available to fans who wanted their clubs back - leave the currupt carcus to rot - and support fan run initiatives, albeit in Blue Square or whatever, but with business and strategic support ans well as accountancy monitoring? To me that would be far more illustrative of teh value of the football family and supporting clubs and fans than ignoring the ethics and complete lack of sporting integrity demonstrated by allowing a club to survive with its cups and history bought through cheating creditors out of 150mil .... feck, I would hazzard a guess there would even be many Saints fan who would encourage and support such a pheonix and wish them all the very best.

with Clyne you did not pay what Palace wanted and agreed a compromise. That is what one failed CVA and another one has done.

Is that true? Genuine question as I had not seen that anywhere before?

 

It so I am even prouder about my club, The Admin was pretty hard to take even when it was over reasonably small sums compared to others, if we did a deal that actually took care of our creditors should we rise through the leagues but helped us should we faulter then thats alot of back scratching and should leave us with a very good name.

 

To get back in the prem knowing we have done our best to satisfy those that may have lost money as opposed to wiping 98% of debt and fleacing local small bussiness' is a huge thing and well done to those involved.

 

We only owed Barclays and Aviva, everyone else was paid. Repayments for 8 years at just under 2mil a year before the axe fell + the 10 mil that ML paid and yes part of the agreement with aviva was another 4 mil would be paid if we got back to the prem inside 5 years... guess its kinda of nice to know ML was happy to sign up to the additional repayment, and honour it, but not unsurprizing given the moral and ethical way he ran his businesses - all round great man who is sadly missed.

Council loans should be for starting new business, not funding necromancy.

:lol:

One thing about chinny's debt - FL stated no golden share granted unless he reduces that debt to around the amount it is worth, fratton is worth around £3m tops at the moment I reckon because it cannot be used for anything other than football. So whether liquidised or not he is only going get around that amount for his debt.

The trust met the council along time ago and rumours were if it came to it council would stump up the funds required, I doubt with Penny Maudent sat there as well that they will not have already agreed this with PCC in principle

The trust met the council along time ago and rumours were if it came to it council would stump up the funds required, I doubt with Penny Maudent sat there as well that they will not have already agreed this with PCC in principle

She's an MP not a Councillor - two completely separate things.

One thing about chinny's debt - FL stated no golden share granted unless he reduces that debt to around the amount it is worth, fratton is worth around £3m tops at the moment I reckon because it cannot be used for anything other than football. So whether liquidised or not he is only going get around that amount for his debt.

 

The trust met the council along time ago and rumours were if it came to it council would stump up the funds required, I doubt with Penny Maudent sat there as well that they will not have already agreed this with PCC in principle

So, Chanrai, who now looks to be cutting his losses and just getting out with whatever he can, who today has admitted that, actually, he WILL let the club be liquidated, by your valuation of current worth, would get more from the club being liquidated than by accepting the Trust's offer?

Ok.

That's completely disregarding the possibility that he could just sit on it and hope he gets planning permission eventually.

One thing about chinny's debt - FL stated no golden share granted unless he reduces that debt to around the amount it is worth, fratton is worth around £3m tops at the moment I reckon because it cannot be used for anything other than football. So whether liquidised or not he is only going get around that amount for his debt.

They said nothing of the sort you deluded mentalist.

Therefore, as a condition of membership, any new company established to apply for ownership of Portsmouth Football Club's share in The Football League will be required to:

 

Agree that only a limited proportion of the secured debt from the previous club can be carried forward into the new company as secured debt.

Edit - sorry, shouldn't have called you a deluded mentalist. No doubt you're only repeating what that bastion of journalistic truth, Neil Allen of The News, told you.

For example with Clyne you did not pay what Palace wanted and agreed a compromise. That is what one failed CVA and another one has done.

Dear oh dear.

Neil Allen ‏@pn_neil_allen

 

Trust have offered £2.75m to Portpin for Fratton Park. #Pompey #pst

 

'Dear Chinny,

Please can we buy Nottarf Krap off of you for £2.75m of someone else's money

Yours Hopefully,

Deluded of La La Land'

We only owed Barclays and Aviva' date=' everyone else was paid. Repayments for 8 years at just under 2mil a year before the axe fell + the 10 mil that ML paid and yes part of the agreement with aviva was another 4 mil would be paid if we got back to the prem inside 5 years... guess its kinda of nice to know ML was happy to sign up to the additional repayment, and honour it, but not unsurprizing given the moral and ethical way he ran his businesses - all round great man who is sadly missed.[/quote']

 

Ah so it was only an extra £4 mil ontop of what had already been paid back. I guess if we had still owed much of the initial loan then AVIVA may have tried to bargain for more but when you think of how much was already paid back they may of just wanted to make sure they were as little out of pocket as possible. I would of thougt Barclays would of been paid in full too as it was only a small amount.

 

Still feel pretty good about the fact that going forward we have not left a huge amount of unaid debt behind.

 

For pompey to do the same or similar I would of thought all football debts would need to be paid in full, along with all small business's and charity's, staff and the only person to lose out on paper would be Chainrai seeing as his debt is possibly added up by AA's school of mathmatics. So what he actually has put in may not be what he is actually claiming.

 

Its ironic that he seems to be the only one that thinks he will get anything back at all though.

One thing about chinny's debt - FL stated no golden share granted unless he reduces that debt to around the amount it is worth, fratton is worth around £3m tops at the moment I reckon because it cannot be used for anything other than football. So whether liquidised or not he is only going get around that amount for his debt.

 

The trust met the council along time ago and rumours were if it came to it council would stump up the funds required, I doubt with Penny Maudent sat there as well that they will not have already agreed this with PCC in principle

As for it can't be used for anything else, well i think you will find it will be demolished if no football club is there. I often see properties that are left to go to ruin and eventually the planners want the eyesore out of the way. In 3 years after the club is gone, the stadium will be demolished and something put up. When it looked as if we were going I was under no illusion that the stadium would be there forever.

Councils often have loan funds to help small businesses, but I am not sure that they are really thinking about football clubs. If the council did lend them money then they are opening one hell of a huge can of worms and suspect that they would also lay themselves open to a huge number of legal challenges. Cutting the budget even further for, for example, disabled schools so that they can save Poopey isn't great. Anyway, looking at this http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/coun20100209_budget_appA.pdf there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of spare cash.

I have no issue with a local authority lending money to a local organisation, even the local football club. In the case of our nearest and dearest the loan should be on the basis that the Fans own the club) and all FL requirements are adhered in full, no appeals and no campaigns. I can’t see what the basis for a legal challenge would be. Trust ownership and fans control is now the only solution I could stomach if the few are to survive. Such an arrangement would guarantee that they forever remain below us and in our shadow much more satisfying than them becoming a footnote in football history.

The trust met the council along time ago and rumours were if it came to it council would stump up the funds required, I doubt with Penny Maudent sat there as well that they will not have already agreed this with PCC in principle

This is what was reported in the news at the time -

Portsmouth City Council have also told BBC Sport they are now considering investing in the bid after productive talks with the PST.

 

However, they say they will only consider doing so if three conditions are met.

 

The council say they would only be able to buy an asset, not give money - with the obvious asset being Fratton Park.

 

Moreover, the council would only buy assets at their current market value. Chainrai has valued Fratton Park at £12m - the council's valuation is £2m.

 

Finally, the council say it will only invest if the Trust has a business plan which will work.

So, does the PST have a business plan which will 'work' ? From the info released thus far, I'd say that's very debatable..

Link to May's article - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18146640

 

We alread have in escrow £1.6m (season ticket sales 8,000 @ £200 average)

I find it hard to believe that you have 8,000 season tickets sold at this time, even if you do that's quite poor considering you're a massive club with the greatest, most loyal and passionate fanbase in the entire universe.

Isn't the ST revenue being released to the club on a game-by-game basis and contingent on them actually fulfilling each fixture?

Surely the PPs will not go to the club for them to decide what to do with them? They will be diverted by the PL to the appropriate claimants.

I find it hard to believe that you have 8,000 season tickets sold at this time, even if you do that's quite poor considering you're a massive club with the greatest, most loyal and passionate fanbase in the entire universe.

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/tickets/season-tickets.aspx

According to this they'd sold 4,000. No date on that article but I believe it was released about mid/end of July. First season back in the Championship 9,200 were sold, and that reduced to about 8,000 last season. So I'd also be very surprised if they sold 8,000 being a division lower.

What with being rooted to the foot of League 1 for at least the first 4 or 5 games (and that's being generous), I predict their average home ticket sales will no more than 9.5-10k next season.

Have your name on a plaque with Pompey Legends!!!

They still can't seem to make up their minds whether Kanu et al. are 'tainted memories' or LEGENDS:

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/walloffame/index.htm

WALL OF SHAME

Fans & Legends Together Forever Pompey

We're building a new landmark at Fratton Park; the Wall Of Fame.

Made up of panels of personalised engraved stones within the Fratton End, North and South stands, it will be a place where you and your loved ones will be side by side with the legends.

With a choice of blue or white, this is your chance to buy one of the stones and to personalise it with your own name and message. A perfect gift for your Pompey supporting friends and family or a treat for yourself, the stones will celebrate your love for Pompey.

Play Up Pompey!

Have your name on a plaque with Pompey Legends!!!

 

They still can't seem to make up their minds whether Kanu et al. are 'tainted memories' or LEGENDS:

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/walloffame/index.htm

 

WALL OF SHAME

 

Fans & Legends Together Forever Pompey

 

We're building a new landmark at Fratton Park; the Wall Of Fame.

 

Made up of panels of personalised engraved stones within the Fratton End, North and South stands, it will be a place where you and your loved ones will be side by side with the legends.

 

With a choice of blue or white, this is your chance to buy one of the stones and to personalise it with your own name and message. A perfect gift for your Pompey supporting friends and family or a treat for yourself, the stones will celebrate your love for Pompey.

 

Play Up Pompey!

Only £95

How about

WTFILN you DCFSBs. luv TSW

Good Business plan from FPMR

What happens in year 2 and 3

I think he was heard to say if PCC don't lend us the money it will down to WONGA.COM.

Good Business plan from FPMR

What happens in year 2 and 3

Attendances will go up ten fold as they secure back to back promotions to the premier league whereby they can waste the parachute money all over again.

Only £95

 

How about

 

WTFILN you DCFSBs. luv TSW

Perhaps we nutjobs could club together:

WTFILN tnx fr LOLs TSW PTS

Attendances will go up ten fold as they secure back to back promotions to the premier league whereby they can waste the parachute money all over again.

Alternately:

Chinney will cut & run once he's milked the PPs leaving the PST up a creek sans paddle & more empty seats than LOCOG