Pompey Takeover Saga

[Chin Strain]

I have to say it's extremely unlikely that any proper Saudi Billionaire (as opposed to Al-Fahim and Al-Mirage) will just stump up tens of millions without going through proper due dilligence - they are not known for just throwing money at investments.

 

Pompey are going down. It's all very well saying they'll get the parachure payments, but they will need every penny of that to survive next season with their cost base - or to pay players off their huge contracts, plus bonuses etc.

 

You would want to look, in depth at every players contract. You would want to understand the nature of all their football, and general debts. You would want to know how much you need to invest to make any kind of return.

 

There is no way the sales of the keeper and the other chap to Spurs will have covered January's salaries, the debts due to Chelsea and Watford, the majority of the funds owed to Chainrai, and left them with enough to meet their obligations to the end of the season. Then there's Lens, HMRC and Sol - thats another £15m.

 

So it'll cost someone in the region of £60/£70m to buy what is effectively a Championship club. Is Newcastle still for sale?

 

If Chairai wants to keep them going he will need to make a significant payment to HMRC and convince them that the Club can meet any payment schedule - they have no means of even meeting February's salaries.

 

No Administrator will take them on with their lack of funds and saleable assets to the end of the season, so a CVA is the only alternative to Winding UP. If they go the CVA route, then Chainrai, as a secured creditor will probably stay outside any CVA. A CVA has to be agreed by 70% of the participating Creditors (if memory serves) - probably requiring both HMRC and Gheydamack Jnrs Trust fund to agree to the CVA.

 

So whoever buys the club will still have whatever debts are left under the CVA, plus the £25m football debts, plus whatever is needed to pay back Chainrai as a bare minimum. Your still talking around £40m for a Championship club with no infrastructure. The debts would need to be cleared as they cannot fund them form cashflow on crowds of 12k max in the Championship.

 

I don't want them to fold - look at the excitement being generated this week - but I just can't see a way out for them.

 

Completely agree with all of this. I assume that Chainrai will take the ground as he has that secured. Also, there are a few players that would generate some funds, such as Belhadj, Boateng etc, so there's going to be a minimum amount that someone will have to pay for the club with no ground. After all that, you still need to operate the club as a football club, even if you do sell all the players. Therefore there's more cost involved in just keeping them running, by way of new players etc.

 

Like you say, I simply can't see how they can get out of it, especially as the administrator's role is to get the best possible deal for the creditors....and liquidation seems to be the best possible way.

[benjii]

But if they do this, they set a dangerous precedent for other companies who default on their tax liabilities and could even spark off a plethora of court cases from ex directors of companies that have been wound-up in similar circumstances.

 

HMRC cannot set legal precedent. They are perfectly at liberty to accept any settlement they feel like.

 

I don't think they will though

[Saint J 77]

More groups of people with more money than sense looking to buy Pompey?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8502752.stm

 

Rich and stupid...

 

Pompey will take anyones dirty money to survive

[Matthew Le God]

More groups of people with more money than sense looking to buy Pompey?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8502752.stm

 

Rich and stupid...

 

Pompey will take anyones dirty money to survive

 

I think Jacob is just lying, hoping this will delay the winding up order as it did for Notts County. I doubt the courts/taxman will fall for it.

[Under Weststand]

There is no way in the world Pompey will be wound up on Wednesday. Things like that just do not happen to clubs in the premier league. The case on Wednesday will either be thrown out due to a technicality or they will be given 28 days to pay... and somehow by the skin of their teeth something will materialise and they will pay it.

 

Just my opinion - I hope I'm wrong!

The case if it gets to Wednesday will not be thrown out, this is what they are at the high court on Monday for, if the HMRC's WUP is upheld on Monday then, on Wednesday at the WUP they will either have to pay, convince the judge that they are solvent, or have proof positive that they are seriously in a full takeover situation that is liable to happen within 28-days, as per Notts County recently.

Now that may also go against them as since Notts County's court case their deal has collapsed, & they are desperately trying to find more investment to pay their tax bill. So I would fully expect unless its a done deal then they would be very very cautious about giving them the benifit of the doubt.

[OldNick]

I was at a do today (details a tad fuzzy as there was a bit of champs) and I was sat next to a corporate lawyer who has done a bit of work with football clubs. I asked him about his thoughts on the Pompey saga and he said he only knew what was in the media. he did say that the court judges were very smart people who have heard it all before, and would not accept any nonsense. I went away not knowing how he thought the case would go, lawyers!!!

Basically

Football clubs are riddled with dodgy stuff and the worst at paying their debts, from PL down.

The HMRC really do pursue these things and would go for the jugular.

Pompey will appoint a top man to argue their case, a top mind (above a barrister, I cant recall the name)

Apparently there are a lot of IP's (insolvency practitioneers) who want to get to the club to really look at the books and find out where the funds have gone.

If he didnt wish to wind them up immediately the judge could appoint accountants to see if they could get the club on a sound footing. Of course then they could delve fully into the accounts and see what really has been going on.(any shredding machine suppliers on the unpaid list lol) It would save the club but the skeletons would be revealed and the penalties from the authorities and the league would follow if there was wrong doing and in turn was proved.

Forgive the muddle but I had had quite a bit of fizz and so some of this may be incorrect or badly described.

[dronskisaint]

There is no way in the world Pompey will be wound up on Wednesday. Things like that just do not happen to clubs in the premier league. The case on Wednesday will either be thrown out due to a technicality or they will be given 28 days to pay... and somehow by the skin of their teeth something will materialise and they will pay it.

 

Just my opinion - I hope I'm wrong!

 

They have had a number of 28 days opportunities - If the court does it's job they will be wound up - IF they don't choose admin the night before which would seem the only viable alternative...time is absolutely up now.

 

I do share your misgivings though - they hang around like the smell of dogs*it on a cleaned boot!

[scruftydog]

If he didnt wish to wind them up immediately the judge could appoint accountants to see if they could get the club on a sound footing. Of course then they could delve fully into the accounts and see what really has been going on.(any shredding machine suppliers on the unpaid list lol) It would save the club but the skeletons would be revealed and the penalties from the authorities and the league would follow if there was wrong doing and in turn was proved.

 

So will the mysterious office fire be Monday or Tuesday night then?

[dubai_phil]

I think Phil will be best to give opinion on this. He normally dismisses these things

 

Jeez here I am with me legs falling off having had a full day looking after my mate Rory and then having had to run back & forwards down 3 playoff holes at the golf today (bloody exciting though and a WTF to Tom Watson at 61 coming in the top ten) and you expect me to give you an insight?

 

Saudi society is all about the Royal Family. Having had a few ales I ain't about to google the exact info but there are some 2 or 3 thousand members of the Saudi "Royal Family".

 

Mostly they are known for their ability to run up unpaid bills at French Lingerie stores OR to simply turn up at an airport and get on a flight (which means if you are on Saudia with a reservation in FIRST class, you are NORMALLY lucky enough to get the last seat in economy.)

 

BUT

 

Somebody in that mix who has made it in the system to achieve such a plumb role as Ambassador to The Court of St James will actually have a lot more about them. It is most likely to be "family" wealth and anyone who has ever been to Monaco will have seen "the King's Yacht (the BIG thing with a helicopter landing pad and a missile defence system so I think most people will understand that they make Roman Abramovich look like a Big Issue seller.

 

So, he will have wealth.

 

Unfortunately for the few, having made it to that role, he will also have two other key attributes

 

1) Brains

2) An understanding and knowledge of the UK and it's current affairs

 

So, I reckon they still have 3 hopes.

 

No Hope

Bob Hope

& Envelope

 

I may be wrong, but if he REALLY wants a club I can get him the phone number for Mike Ashley. (He left a pile of biz cards on the bar when he was here a year back trying to flog Toon) (Oh and he (MA turned up drunk in Ramadan for his big meeting which is why..........)

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I think Jacob is just lying, hoping this will delay the winding up order as it did for Notts County. I doubt the courts/taxman will fall for it.

 

I hear the tax man is really p+ssed off with Pompey because after agreeing a new instalment package last year they welshed on the first payment. Just waiting for permission to post a few more juicy but well sourced rumours.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I hear the tax man is really p+ssed off with Pompey because after agreeing a new instalment package last year they welshed on the first payment. Just waiting for permission to post a few more juicy but well sourced rumours.

 

We're all ears!

[Matthew Le God]

Permission from?

[View From The Top]

I hear the tax man is really p+ssed off with Pompey because after agreeing a new instalment package last year they welshed on the first payment. Just waiting for permission to post a few more juicy but well sourced rumours.

 

Oh come on, it's a Sunday which means we're all cheesed off as it's work tomorrow so give us something to make us smile. :smt052

[Um Bongo]

They won't go bust.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

They won't go bust.

 

Spoilsport!

[Clapham Saint]

They won't go bust.

 

They will.

 

The only question is Admin on Tuesday or wound up on Wednesday.

[tommi]

I still stand by my statement, PFC will still exist come Thursday and we will still play them on Saturday (I cannot wait...!)

 

The worst that will possibly happen to them is Admin, relegation, a few years in the doldrums... The best case, Mr Chainrai stumps up £20m over the next couple of days, they go on a bit of a run and manage to survive by the skin of their teeth and someone then takes them on, probably drastically reducing their wage bill and running them as a 'proper club'

 

I just can't see them ceasing to exist, the Premier league will not allow it ;-)

[Matthew Le God]

They won't go bust.

 

What makes you so confident?

[Matthew Le God]

 

I just can't see them ceasing to exist, the Premier league will not allow it

 

It has nothing to do with the Premier League. All down to the courts and the taxman now.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Hopefully it will go like clockwork for the revenue..

 

And pompoohey will get wound up...

 

See what i did there??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok i`ll get my coat:smt086

[solentstars]

I hear the tax man is really p+ssed off with Pompey because after agreeing a new instalment package last year they welshed on the first payment. Just waiting for permission to post a few more juicy but well sourced rumours.

well you have been spot on about pompey when you started the thread,when you had a lot of the usual doubters.

[Under Weststand]

They will.

 

The only question is Admin on Tuesday or wound up on Wednesday.

 

After we'd been in Administration, it was reported that a few Admin teams had dismissed us & wouldn't take us on as they felt we had little chance of survival. Now what happens if no one will administer for them?

 

Can they voluntarily go into administration now, I thought they couldn't as they are under the WUP, or am I wrong (probably).

[rpb]

I hear the tax man is really p+ssed off with Pompey because after agreeing a new instalment package last year they welshed on the first payment. Just waiting for permission to post a few more juicy but well sourced rumours.

 

I give you my permission - if that counts...

[Channon's Sideburns]

After we'd been in Administration, it was reported that a few Admin teams had dismissed us & wouldn't take us on as they felt we had little chance of survival. Now what happens if no one will administer for them?

 

Can they voluntarily go into administration now, I thought they couldn't as they are under the WUP, or am I wrong (probably).

 

Well we have to bear in mind these are slippery fishy fookers we are talking about...so you can guarantee some storrie will be thought up....

 

I bet a 'high-up' club official declares an illness or something before Wednesday...

[Under Weststand]

Well we have to bear in mind these are slippery fishy fookers we are talking about...so you can guarantee some storrie will be thought up....

 

I bet a 'high-up' club official declares an illness or something before Wednesday...

 

What like Fin rot or white spot or maybe even Dropsy

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

tend to agree, the revenue will accept a payment on account tuesday afternoon.

if the club is wound up they get nothing

 

HMRC collect billions of £ every year - what Pompey owe them is small fry. Pompey have given them the runaround already, they could well go for the jugular to set example to others.

[NickG]

They will.

 

The only question is Admin on Tuesday or wound up on Wednesday.

 

don't think either

[EastleighSoulBoy]

HMRC collect billions of £ every year - what Pompey owe them is small fry. Pompey have given them the runaround already, they could well go for the jugular to set example to others.

 

My feelings exactly!

[Gingeletiss]

I hear the tax man is really p+ssed off with Pompey because after agreeing a new instalment package last year they welshed on the first payment. Just waiting for permission to post a few more juicy but well sourced rumours.

 

 

Nothing new there Duncan, that was well publicised, and is why they issued a winding up order. So what other little snippits to you know;)

[Gemmel]

Whether Charani puts any more money in remains to be seen, but I'm certain he will beable to buy more time come Wednesday on the basis he is a new owner etc etc.

[Clapham Saint]

If Chanrai doesn't put more money in I expect them to either be in some form of insolvency procedure by the end of Wednesday.

 

You can obviously never say never but I don't see any reason to give them an extension.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Whether Charani puts any more money in remains to be seen, but I'm certain he will beable to buy more time come Wednesday on the basis he is a new owner etc etc.

 

But.........following the posting on the fishy site about the Premier League meeting, in that they state that the money was not Chinarai's at all...but Arcadi Gaydamak's.

 

So....therefore m'lud, Mr Chinnery is in fact not the owner - Gaydamak is. Again. Except he wasn't really the first time..oh no that was his son, Alexandre, who actually in fact is called Sacha, who really did put his own money into it buying it from Mad Milan (who hates Saints but seems to employ people from us all the time so we can't be that bad), before selling onto Thaksin..sorry Al Fahim who has a lovely Ferrari but no money..who in turn sold 90% onto Al Mirage (or was that Storrie in a fancy dress outfit?)..who had backers, who didn't remember to put the lottery ticket on...who in turn lost the club in a game of Yahtzee with Mr Chinnery...who lent Poopey the money to spunk against the wall, except apparently Mr Chinnery didn't, it was in fact Gaydamak's.

 

Phew. Got that?

[rallyboy]

well it could be an interesting week!

 

I do hope we can finish off MKD and that Carlisle do the same to Leeds.

It would be nice if Kenwyne Jones scored a last minute winner at Fratton.

I do hope the taxman and the judge are impatient on Wednesday.

It would be understandable if Avram chucked it all in Thursday morning.

And a few of their players decided to go the free agent route that afternoon.

And Ricky Lambert crashed in a 98th minute winner on saturday.

 

 

Don't the weeks fly by when you're enjoying yourself.

[bridge too far]

But.........following the posting on the fishy site about the Premier League meeting, in that they state that the money was not Chinarai's at all...but Arcadi Gaydamak's.

 

So....therefore m'lud, Mr Chinnery is in fact not the owner - Gaydamak is. Again. Except he wasn't really the first time..oh no that was his son, Alexandre, who actually in fact is called Sacha, who really did put his own money into it buying it from Mad Milan (who hates Saints but seems to employ people from us all the time so we can't be that bad), before selling onto Thaksin..sorry Al Fahim who has a lovely Ferrari but no money..who in turn sold 90% onto Al Mirage (or was that Storrie in a fancy dress outfit?)..who had backers, who didn't remember to put the lottery ticket on...who in turn lost the club in a game of Yahtzee with Mr Chinnery...who lent Poopey the money to spunk against the wall, except apparently Mr Chinnery didn't, it was in fact Gaydamak's.

 

Phew. Got that?

 

And, your Honour, Mr Gaydamak won't pass the FPPT.

[Channon's Sideburns]

And, your Honour, Mr Gaydamak won't pass the FPPT.

 

..and next week on the longest thread in existence...we move onto....

 

Forensic Accounting.

 

Those Poopey boards have got nothing on us.

 

(BTW I'm not Ken Dulieu).

[Gemmel]

..and next week on the longest thread in existence...we move onto....

 

Forensic Accounting.

 

Those Poopey boards have got nothing on us.

 

(BTW I'm not Ken Dulieu).

 

 

Quick question (Actually it took us over 5 pints in the club this afternoon to come up with any sort of concensus) assuming they stay in business and the FA launch some sort of investigation , what do you think will be their points deduction for everything that has gone on, including the tax cases.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Quick question (Actually it took us over 5 pints in the club this afternoon to come up with any sort of concensus) assuming they stay in business and the FA launch some sort of investigation , what do you think will be their points deduction for everything that has gone on, including the tax cases.

 

Well I think the only 'potential' comparison is Luton, and they lost 30 points.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article4340138.ece

 

They had financial irregularities. Goodness knows what investigators may find at Nottarf Krap though....but we'll wait and see. Probably nothing of course. ;-)

 

And, as we're on 'precedents' tonight, note from the Luton piece that just because you're new owners, doesn't mean that you'll get away with it.

 

Another reason to steer clear if they manage to find someone stupid enough to consider getting involved...

[Saint Keith]

Quick question (Actually it took us over 5 pints in the club this afternoon to come up with any sort of concensus) assuming they stay in business and the FA launch some sort of investigation , what do you think will be their points deduction for everything that has gone on, including the tax cases.

 

relegated 2 divisons, like swindon

[Colinjb]

Quick question (Actually it took us over 5 pints in the club this afternoon to come up with any sort of concensus) assuming they stay in business and the FA launch some sort of investigation , what do you think will be their points deduction for everything that has gone on, including the tax cases.

 

Taking into account previous clubs who have either gone into admin or not recieved a CVA....

 

Admin - 9 Points

Applied in the Premiership

 

No CVA Agreement (as there are no assets) but still playing - 10 Points

Trading while insolvent - 5 Points

'Various' Indescretions - 5 points

A 20 Point deduction in the championship

[Channon's Sideburns]

Ooh look...

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7018363.ece

 

'At the same time, Balram Chainrai, the new owner, will have to undergo an inquisition from Premier League authorities under the “fit and proper persons” test, including a face-to-face interview.

 

Chainrai’s financial links with Arcadi Gaydamak — the father of Alexandre, one of Portsmouth’s previous owners — and other associates are to be put under the microscope by corporate intelligence experts.'

[andysstuff]

Ooh look...

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7018363.ece

 

'At the same time, Balram Chainrai, the new owner, will have to undergo an inquisition from Premier League authorities under the “fit and proper persons” test, including a face-to-face interview.

 

Chainrai’s financial links with Arcadi Gaydamak — the father of Alexandre, one of Portsmouth’s previous owners — and other associates are to be put under the microscope by corporate intelligence experts.'

 

raises the interesting scenario whereby he fails to pass the FAPPT, who then end up in charge - Al Mirage again??

[Channon's Sideburns]

raises the interesting scenario whereby he fails to pass the FAPPT, who then end up in charge - Al Mirage again??

 

Nah, I reckon by that time Fred Dinenage gets a go, ably assisted by Trevor the Weather and Carl Tyler.

 

Jack Hargreaves and Gaz Top will be taking care of the ground.

 

Fern Britton in charge of catering, Debbie Thrower as Stadium Announcer.

[andysstuff]

Nah, I reckon by that time Fred Dinenage gets a go, ably assisted by Trevor the Weather and Carl Tyler.

 

Jack Hargreaves and Gaz Top will be taking care of the ground.

 

Fern Britton in charge of catering, Debbie Thrower as Stadium Announcer.

 

Couldn't do any worse than any of the last four or five!

[ART]

 

So, he will have wealth.

 

Unfortunately for the few, having made it to that role, he will also have two other key attributes

 

1) Brains

2) An understanding and knowledge of the UK and it's current affairs

 

So, I reckon they still have 3 hopes.

 

No Hope

Bob Hope

& Envelope

 

I may be wrong, but if he REALLY wants a club I can get him the phone number for Mike Ashley. (He left a pile of biz cards on the bar when he was here a year back trying to flog Toon) (Oh and he (MA turned up drunk in Ramadan for his big meeting which is why..........)

 

Well Phil, that contradicts what I was told when I worked in Saudi. I was told that 50 years ago, the Saudis rode camels, but nowadays they drive fast luxurious and costly cars. Only difference, I was told, is that it was wthe camels who had brains. Hmmmm!

 

This saga and goings on at Pimpley is the biggest international money laundering "pass the parcel" event ever to run it's course. Dirty money has been going from Serbia, to Angola, to Paris, to Israel, to Saudia, then on to Hong Kong, always passing through the Rust Bowl and vanishing into brown envelopes and player salaries, unpaid taxes and dodgy transfers.

 

In the meantime, teflon Mandarec and greasy Harry sit back and watch events from afar as it all runs off their backs and out into space.

[Crab Lungs]

[bridge too far]

Brilliant!

 

Great stuff!

[benjii]

That could mean administration is the fastest and most expedient answer, although it would result in a nine-point penalty and reinforce the feeling that Portsmouth, the bottom side, will be relegated.

 

Understatement of the century from The Times there!

[so22saint]

Love that cartoon strip - LOL'd at "ding ding ding". What a bell end that bloke is - I know it's not clever, or even original, but true

[St Marco]

Quality comic strip!

 

Right then prediction time, how do people think today will go?

 

Me personally i think the appeal will be rejected and the PL will allow the new guy to be chairman. Simply because they know it is the end game and if they said no people would use that as an excuse to have a go at the PL and make it out they blocked any chance of them being saved.

 

Firstly people have to remember they have already had an appeal and it was rejected. They then had 7 days from that decison to further appeal and they declined. This is not an official appeal it is to ask for more time. That was way back in january, 3 weeks ago.

Since that court case the company has done nothing to secure itself. It relied on TV money and player sales to simply stay alive in those 3 weeks.

You have had countless people/companies come out and say they have not been paid or start their own legal proceedings. Only last week did the staff get paid for the previous months work.

In short the evidence to deny the appeal is massive.

 

There would be only 1 way that they would be granted time and that is IF someone shows not just proof of funds, but solid proof they intend to pay. The court which is acting on the government's behalf will obviously take a hard line when it comes to tax evasion issues. They will not take the new guy on his word, especially because of his connections to a convicted arms dealer. If he says give him more time to find a buyer they will throw it out simply because without any actual real interest what is the point?

A deal could be struck or it could not be struck. Deals take a long time to complete. And with a company in such a complicated mess as Portsmouth then you have to assume that a deal would take far far longer to complete.

The new owner is trying to save himself from losing his £17m he put in. He is going to try everything he can to make it sound like he has something lined up. Because that is all he has. If he had something lined up he would of evoked his contract clause long before the court case. This is his last chance, and ultimatly is the clubs ast chance.

 

So i think they will throw it out, without any tight evidence from someone with money agreeing they will pay it un-conditionally then the court has no choice but to decline the appeal. They are not there to get their money back. They are there to judge if the company should be able to continue.

 

With that decision the club will then try to enter administration. If they succesfully do that then the court case ends and they stay alive for now. If it is rejected which it probably will then they have 24hrs to get the money they owed or you will never hear that bell being run on tv again.

[saint si]

Seen on the personal ads in The News...

 

Desperate suiter, feeling blue from recent hard luck and rejections, seeks proper fit Thai to come and take control, for possible short term fling. Fun and laughter guaranteed. Own car, house and multi-million pound bank balance are a must.