Why are we conceding so many goals?

[iansums]

We have not kept a clean sheet for 12 games. Only 3 clean sheets all season. Something is wrong here. Is it the defence as a whole, lack of pace in the CB's or the lack of a decent holding midfielder. This is really costing us at the moment, 5 points dropped in the last two league games.

 

Please discuss. Any suggestions to be forwarded to AP.

[nickfinks]

This is a slight worry, I think it is the later, the holding midfielder, if you look at the games Wootton has played you will get my drift.

[Wes Tender]

Things will improve when Murty is back and replaces James

[iansums]

This is a slight worry, I think it is the later, the holding midfielder, if you look at the games Wootton has played you will get my drift.

 

I tend to agree. I think every team needs a solid holding midfielder to protect the CB's. Wotton has done an ok job there but I would like to think AP is looking for someone else in January. I'd have thought that it would suit Hammond but perhaps he likes to get forward too much.

[niceandfriendly]

Not sure. On paper we have a cracking defence and a brilliant keeper but it's just not happening. Agree with the above poster, when Murty comes back in I think our chances of a clean sheet will improve.

 

His lack of pace concerns me though, especially as he'll be playing alongside Trotman, Harding and Jaidi. Good players, but slooooooow.

[John B]

Not sure. On paper we have a cracking defence and a brilliant keeper but it's just not happening. Agree with the above poster, when Murty comes back in I think our chances of a clean sheet will improve.

 

His lack of pace concerns me though, especially as he'll be playing alongside Trotman, Harding and Jaidi. Good players, but slooooooow.

 

Possibly

 

James and Trotman not experienced enough

 

Harding has little support from Midfield

 

Jaidi is getting a little old

[DT]

James not good enough. Trotman and Jaidi v slow (why didn't Jaidi header the cross for Brighton's first goal?) and Davis doesn't command the area between him and the defence well enough, for all his shot-stopping ability. He's one of those keepers who seems to like it when strikers have a shot. I don't think the defence will improve until he leaves. Did you notice how much we tightened up when we had Wright?

[krissyboy31]

Not sure. On paper we have a cracking defence and a brilliant keeper but it's just not happening. Agree with the above poster, when Murty comes back in I think our chances of a clean sheet will improve.

 

His lack of pace concerns me though, especially as he'll be playing alongside Trotman, Harding and Jaidi. Good players, but slooooooow.

 

He's a damned site quicker than James.

[david in sweden]

We have not kept a clean sheet for 12 games. Only 3 clean sheets all season. Something is wrong here. Is it the defence as a whole, lack of pace in the CB's or the lack of a decent holding midfielder. This is really costing us at the moment, 5 points dropped in the last two league games.

 

Please discuss. Any suggestions to be forwarded to AP.

 

 

 

Clean sheets aren't really SO important - except to a goalie's pride.

 

There's been some exciting football of late (ex.Brighton game of course) and prior to that we've scored 22 in 8 league and Cup games (conceded 11), and about a dozen different scorers... so far this season.

The recent drop in form has coincided with the absence of ...Mr. Wotton (but that's another defensive arguement.)

 

We really can't expect to score lots of goals without conceding some along the way. I am old enough to remember the high scoring sides in the 1960's. MY favourite season was 1963-64 ..no we din't win promotion but scored 100 league goals in 42 games. There were only 6 clean sheets all season but we scored ..70 at home. Average more than 3 Saints goals per game!

 

In most cases a defence oriented-team might score one goal.. and hold out for the points. Even in the heady days of the 1980's when we had Englands keeper Peter Shilton, it was a good season if we had a dozen or more such games.

 

Of course it's nice to have a watertight defence, but at the end of the season ..a lot of goals may make the difference for a play-off place and the more you score - the better it will be. Clean sheets are a bonus - but don't give extra points.

 

I'm sure that AP wants to improve the squad everywhere, but speaking personally - I don't care as long as we score one more than the opposition.

Edited 18 November, 2009 by david in sweden

[the saint in winchester]

Clean sheets aren't really SO important - except to a goalie's pride.

 

I'm not sure about that, David. We concede a minimum of one goal a game, so we have to score two to win it!! That's putting a strain on the attacking side of our game.

[niceandfriendly]

He's a damned site quicker than James.

 

Perhaps for the first 15 minutes. Will he be able to keep it up for the full 90?

 

Plus, I doubt that's correct anyway.

[Petersfield Saint]

Not sure. On paper we have a cracking defence and a brilliant keeper but it's just not happening. Agree with the above poster, when Murty comes back in I think our chances of a clean sheet will improve.

 

His lack of pace concerns me though, especially as he'll be playing alongside Trotman, Harding and Jaidi. Good players, but slooooooow.

 

Agree with this; on paper we look pretty good and I don't think James is as bad as he's made out to be but like you say it's just not happening. Fine when we're scoring plenty at the other end but it's not always going to work like that. I also hope and think that Murty will improve things on his return but likewise worry about the potential lack of pace.

[up and away]

This is a slight worry, I think it is the later, the holding midfielder, if you look at the games Wootton has played you will get my drift.

 

Our problem has been the same for a very long time, a midfield that exposes the defence.

 

To get the full drift, look at all the games. When Wooton was in the 4 man midfield, it really did not work out and resulted in him being dropped. In the 5 man midfield where he just sits in front of the back 4, it works the best we have seen. We have two issues with the midfield, the wingers not tracking back and exposing the full backs and not having 2 central midfielders that are mobile and can defend. Then to compound that you need at least one of them capable of providing the creative touch. Maybe the team has moved on and Wooton can play in that 4 man midfield, but Pardew does not seem to think so and he is the first replaced. It's unfair to single out Wooton alone as you can easily point out Schniederlin for his inability to defend. All the graft falls on Hammond and if he gets over run or is slightly off, the whole pack of cards comes down. Far more readily in a 4 man midfield than a 5 man midfield.

 

The problem we have is that we do not have the perfect personnel for each position and have to compromise. At the moment the best compromise appears Wooton sitting in front of the back four. I do not understand why we never tried Gillet in that position, something he is doing regularly for Doncaster? I am fully aware that Gillet has not impressed so far, but try playing Wooton in that forward position and do you think it would work any better?

 

It seems a total waste to have someone like Connolly sat on the bench, but if it means the midfield does not suddenly disappear, it is difficult to see any other option with the personnel we have? Then when you believe that we can cope with a 4 man midfield against someone like Brighton, they don't look at the script and we find ourselves in trouble.

[Thedelldays]

Possibly

 

James and Trotman not experienced enough

 

Harding has little support from Midfield

 

Jaidi is getting a little old

 

sums it up....lallana on the left is not always good for the team...regardless how he plays when he drifts in

 

I jaidi is great if he is heading away a cross or a goal kick....other than that he looks dodgy at times

[Saints67]

sums it up....lallana on the left is not always good for the team...regardless how he plays when he drifts in

 

I jaidi is great if he is heading away a cross or a goal kick....other than that he looks dodgy at times

 

To me he always looks far too casual. I understand he's good and played at higher levels than this but he needs to 'switch on'.

[Wes Tender]

Murty slots into right back and James to replaces wotton in a 5 man midfield with one up front (lambert). DC from the bench. Amen.

 

Good call IMO. Murty is very like Dodd in the twilight of his career. He still has some pace, but experience and intelligence gives him an extra yard in his head. Like Dodd too, he is capable of getting up the line and putting over a very good ball from the byeline. I think that he would be good with either Antonio or Papa Weigo ahead of him. It is the other wing that is more concerning, because although Harding is excellent at RB, I worry that Lallana ahead of him doesn't cover for him well enough when he is upfield. Perhaps James might excel as a sweeper in front of the back four and double as cover for Harding or Murty if they are rampaging forward. Although not as solid as Wotton, he is a better passer of the ball and anyway we have a solid enough pair of CBs. Alternatively, with Murty back, we could consider playing Trotman or Thomas in front of the back four, making it three big players in the centre of defence.

[Thedelldays]

To me he always looks far too casual. I understand he's good and played at higher levels than this but he needs to 'switch on'.

possibly...one or two of his pass backs have been a bit lazy..

 

dont get me wrong, a good player, but ideally needs a pacey player next to him....

 

I cant see him playing much after this season

[Saint Samuel]

James is far too attacking for a right back, the number of times he was out of position of Saturday and got skinned by Brighton's pacy attack. Jaidi needs to be playing alongside a faster centre back, anyone seen Aaron Martin play yet? Does he have more pace than Trotman? Might be worth a gamble...

[derry]

The lack of a proper quickish left midfielder, a right back that is too slow to cope with nippy attackers. I will say that if the talent of Lallana could be coupled with the discipline to provide the necessary wide left that would be the best result. If he won't play as a proper left midfielder then I think it is only a matter of time before they try him somewhere else or replace him.

 

The left midfielder would double up with Harding and give us width and depth in defence. A better right back would give the central defenders more support. The two together would strengthen us immeasurably.

 

Against Brighton our lack of threat down the left allowed the defence to double bank our pacy right midfielder, that made it very difficult for us to get back in the game.

[Saint_clark]

James is not a RB, and Jaidi lacks pace.

[derry]

James is not a RB, and Jaidi lacks pace.

 

I would still play Jaidi but with a proper right back.

[Saint_clark]

I would still play Jaidi but with a proper right back.

 

Same, and with a CB with pace. Either that or stop playing with such a high line of defence.

[derry]

Same, and with a CB with pace. Either that or stop playing with such a high line of defence.

 

If we sort the dual problem of a proper left midfielder and a proper right back I think the centre could well take care of itself.

[Andy_Porter]

I think there are several small problems leading to a leaky defence rather than any glaring problem.

 

- The lack of a holding midfielder in recent games, Schneiderlin and Hammond don't screen the defence properly.

- The holding midfielders we do have are either not good up to the job (Wotton) or playing right back. (James)

- Harding is left exposed at times because Lallana drifts inside, I think he's told to do this by the coaching staff but it does leave Harding exposed against sides which really attack with there right back and right winger.

- Our centre backs are all quite slow.

- Our centre backs while playing 4-4-2 feel the need to hoof the ball at every oppurtunity and we fail to keep possesion.

- Too many luxury players in the same team, I don't think there is currently room for both Lallana and Schneiderlin in the same side.

 

I don't mean to be negative I think we're playing really good football at the moment and the problems I listed are really only small things which shouldn't take much to correct. The Brighton game was probably just a bit of complacency we haven't become a terrible side over night and don't need to make huge changes.

 

When Murty is back fit and we can move James into midfield and play 4-5-1 again I think we will start conceeding a lot less goals.

 

For me our best XI with everyone fit would be:

 

--------- Davis

Murty Jaidi Trottman Harding

---- James - Hammond

Antonio - Lallana - Waigo

-------- Lambert

 

With players like Schneiderlin, Connolly and Mellis on the bench to change things around.

 

I really think our whole squad apart from Connolly is more suited to 4-5-1 and he isn't really worth building the team around. He looks at his best as an impact sub anyway imo so leave him benched and let him play the last 30-45 minutes every week and give him a run out in the cups.

[Stu Man Do]

Things will improve when Murty is back and replaces James

 

Whilst not the best right back in the world you cant fault the lads effort and application in most games. Presumably you think he should have been covering Harding the left back who was caught way out of position on Sunday by a give and go for their right winger Cox? I dont think replacing James with Murty will necessarily be the one quick fix solution.

 

Possibly a covering midfielder and going back to 4-5-1 would help us out but at the end of the day I guess we have to go with what Pards thinks is best, it was only 96 mins of game time ago that the man was a living god on this board!

[Andy_Porter]

Murty playing right back means James can move back into midfield.

[Wes Tender]

Whilst not the best right back in the world you cant fault the lads effort and application in most games. Presumably you think he should have been covering Harding the left back who was caught way out of position on Sunday by a give and go for their right winger Cox? I dont think replacing James with Murty will necessarily be the one quick fix solution.

 

Possibly a covering midfielder and going back to 4-5-1 would help us out but at the end of the day I guess we have to go with what Pards thinks is best, it was only 96 mins of game time ago that the man was a living god on this board!

 

No, one can't fault James' effort or application. But then again, he isn't a right back, whereas Murty is. Any rival manager worth his salt will have identified our right flank as a weakness until we make provision to either cover for him, or bring in an experienced RB like Murty. On the other flank, it has already been suggested by many that the weakness lies not with Harding, but with Lallana not covering him when he drifts inside.

 

I'm one who didn't think that we played all that badly on Sunday and that the fault lay with poor finishing, not being first to the ball in the midfield, not keeping possession through playing head tennis when the ball should have been on the deck and seemingly Brighton wanting it more. Certainly we had more gilt edged chances than Brighton did, but they put theirs away. Had we equalised, Brighton's players would have been a lot more wary of forgaging forward, as we had the pacy players ourselves to have hit them on the break.

[derry]

No, one can't fault James' effort or application. But then again, he isn't a right back, whereas Murty is. Any rival manager worth his salt will have identified our right flank as a weakness until we make provision to either cover for him, or bring in an experienced RB like Murty. On the other flank, it has already been suggested by many that the weakness lies not with Harding, but with Lallana not covering him when he drifts inside.

 

I'm one who didn't think that we played all that badly on Sunday and that the fault lay with poor finishing, not being first to the ball in the midfield, not keeping possession through playing head tennis when the ball should have been on the deck and seemingly Brighton wanting it more. Certainly we had more gilt edged chances than Brighton did, but they put theirs away. Had we equalised, Brighton's players would have been a lot more wary of forgaging forward, as we had the pacy players ourselves to have hit them on the break.

 

James was exposed last year but he is now getting decent cover in front of him by Antonio/Waigo effectively tracking back. He has a fundamental weakness, a lack of pace, it doesn't matter where he plays his slowness is an impediment. When Schneiderlin went off the other day James replaced him and we looked a lot worse for it. For the third goal he lost his man as he often does trailing along behind.

 

We need new blood wide left and at right back. This team is still a transitional one and I would be surprised after the next two transfer windows if it bears anything but a passing resemblance.

[trousers]

Anyone know the number of clean sheets in each league thus far this year? (I.e. Prem, CCC, league 1 & 2)

 

I would put a (very) small sum of money on the number of clean sheets across all teams decreases the lower down the leagues one looks.

 

Or, there again, I could be a misguided and irrelevant fool.

[Stepgar]

People keep blaming James at right back. 2 things. Please remember James has been thrown in the deep end kind if like bridgey and it took him a long time and a lot if a abuse at the time people saying nit good enough but patience told. Also where the goals being leaked from? From what I have seen I is all over the park not just one area. So please don't single out people that is not fair. You win as a team and lose by it. You score as a team just as much as you concede by it. Well that's my thoughts anyway.

[derry]

People keep blaming James at right back. 2 things. Please remember James has been thrown in the deep end kind if like bridgey and it took him a long time and a lot if a abuse at the time people saying nit good enough but patience told. Also where the goals being leaked from? From what I have seen I is all over the park not just one area. So please don't single out people that is not fair. You win as a team and lose by it. You score as a team just as much as you concede by it. Well that's my thoughts anyway.

 

I understand your concerns but as teams evolve and are transitioning, players that aren't up to the best standard required stand out. Whilst goals are scored from different places it is often the performance of the current weakest links that lead to the overload that causes the goal.

 

Our right back and left side is one such situation that needs addressing sooner rather than later.

[captainchris]

I understand your concerns but as teams evolve and are transitioning, players that aren't up to the best standard required stand out. Whilst goals are scored from different places it is often the performance of the current weakest links that lead to the overload that causes the goal.

 

Our right back and left side is one such situation that needs addressing sooner rather than later.

 

All but one poster doesn't mention Davis. Interesting......

 

I am not alone in thinking that his performances are starting to draw some attention and not entirly positive.

 

We have been conceding an alarming number of goals now for a number of years certainly all through the Davis era. We have had several complete replacements of of our defence in that time and little change in our leakage of goals throughout. Not all those defences have been entirely to blame.

 

We do not concede that many shots on target but we are conceding a high percentage of those shots as goals. Many of the goals are being scored in the centre portion of the goal - too many goals are scored from outside the penalty area and in addition Davis is slow to command inside even the six yard area.

 

We all agree I think that Davis is a great club captain and has - in his time put in some very good performances but we can't pick any players on sentiment or past peformances. Anecdotal annalysis of performance is a risky option. The overall opinion on the current defence is fragmented and sways with results - hairs are at times being split in pursuite of the answer to conceding goals - some of the reason is the very option most people are choosing to ignor - mostly out of loyalty I fear.....

Edited 18 November, 2009 by captainchris
sentence needed clarifying

[Wes Tender]

All but one poster doesn't mention Davis. Interesting......

 

I am not alone in thinking that his performances are starting to draw some attention and not entirly positive.

 

We have been conceding an alarming number of goals now for a number of years certainly all through the Davis era. We have had several complete replacements of of our defence in that time and little change in our leakage of goals throughout. Not all those defences have been entirely to blame.

 

We do not concede that many shots on target but we are conceding a high percentage of those shots as goals. Many of the goals are being scored in the centre portion of the goal - too many goals are scored from outside the penalty area and in addition Davis is slow to command inside even the six yard area.

 

We all agree I think that Davis is a great club captain and has - in his time put in some very good performances but we can't pick any players on sentiment or past peformances. Anecdotal annalysis of performance is a risky option. The overall opinion on the current defence is fragmented and sways with results - hairs are at times being split in pursuite of the answer to conceding goals - some of the reason is the very option most people are choosing to ignor - mostly out of loyalty I fear.....

 

No, you're not alone; there was one other poster who supports your contention that Davis might be a factor in the number of goals conceded. That might suggest to you that although he is the easiest person to point the finger at, being the custodian of the goal, most do not think that his prowess in goal is poor. It is the easiest thing in the World to blame the goalkeeper, whereas attempting to analyse the defensive weaknesses in front of him or in midfield that allow a rival team shooting opportunities, is much more difficult. But that is what everybody except two posters have attempted to do. I feel fairly happy that Pardew is also concentrating on our defensive frailties and not having worries that replacing Kelvin Davis is the easy remedy.

[del boy]

Its all about getting the balance right - a team can keep clean sheets at the expense of scoring at the other end and vive verca, its only when you have good quality all over the team, good organisation and confidence that you can get it right at both ends. It takes time, money, a good manager / board and a bit of luck. We're only just starting in reality.

I dont think anyone minded us letting in the odd goal when were scoring more the other end - but if we're not scoring so many for any reason it highlights the defensive shortcomings.

I'm sure AP is well aware of where the strengthening needs to happen. I expect to see us revert to 4-5-1 for a while, but lets rejoice in how far we've come in the last 10 games or so, and hope that the run starts again on Saturday!

[rolosfc]

Murty slots into right back and James to replaces wotton in a 5 man midfield with one up front (lambert). DC from the bench. Amen.

 

Totally agree, James is much better as a holding midfield player than a right back. His lack of pace is less of a problem there and he has a great range of passing. Will give less free-kicks away than Wotton and you still have Hammond in there to provide bite in the tackle.

[derry]

Totally agree, James is much better as a holding midfield player than a right back. His lack of pace is less of a problem there and he has a great range of passing. Will give less free-kicks away than Wotton and you still have Hammond in there to provide bite in the tackle.

 

If we go 4-5-1 could try Antonio and Waigo as the wide players Connolly or Lallana as attacking midfielders off Lambert with Hammond box to box.

[captainchris]

No, you're not alone; there was one other poster who supports your contention that Davis might be a factor in the number of goals conceded. That might suggest to you that although he is the easiest person to point the finger at, being the custodian of the goal, most do not think that his prowess in goal is poor. It is the easiest thing in the World to blame the goalkeeper, whereas attempting to analyse the defensive weaknesses in front of him or in midfield that allow a rival team shooting opportunities, is much more difficult. But that is what everybody except two posters have attempted to do. I feel fairly happy that Pardew is also concentrating on our defensive frailties and not having worries that replacing Kelvin Davis is the easy remedy.

 

Your implication that my comment on Davis is simply a technically uneducated 'easy option' is as far from the truth as you could be. On the contrary, my annalysis was taking all the technical abilities of our current and in addition all the other Davis era defences into consideration - were all those defences poor? The statistics show that over his period in goal we have consistantly conceded more goals than most of our rivals, perhaps apart from one year.

 

Take note on Saturday, it's uncanny that Davis is conceding goals when the ball actually goes quite close to him - if you are annalysing games as closely as you say, you will notice. Also many posters have agreed over the years that Davis is weak in commanding his area. These things do have a knock on affect. More players are needed to guard his six yard area which leaves less defenders to mark and guard space which forwards can and do exploit.

 

I can easily have a technical/tactical opinion on the team defense, however there are more than enough posters already making those points some of which I would agree with. My points are to balance the argument and broaden the thinking, it's not personal and it may not be the majority opinion on here but it's logical and thought through.

[forever a red and white]

would have to disagree with having James in midfield ahead of Morgan, neither Hammond or James has the creativity he does. Although he doesn;t get many assits he gets what i like to call second assits, the pass, that leads to the pass for the goal. Anotonio is still very raw atm and Papa is far too unpredictable, maybe James can be given ago there? bit more cover for Murty and a guranteed good delievery.

 

However, please can we take James off corners and free kicks becasue they aren't good enough atm and we need to take more advantage of the arieal presence in the team.

[hackedoff]

Cant handle pace

Too slow reacting to quick set pieces

Too prone to direct attacks at the beginning off the match/second half

Defensive midfield that err..... cant really defend

 

All that said the side has come a hell of a way in a short space of time and this will be addressed.

[derry]

Your implication that my comment on Davis is simply a technically uneducated 'easy option' is as far from the truth as you could be. On the contrary, my annalysis was taking all the technical abilities of our current and in addition all the other Davis era defences into consideration - were all those defences poor? The statistics show that over his period in goal we have consistantly conceded more goals than most of our rivals, perhaps apart from one year.

 

Take note on Saturday, it's uncanny that Davis is conceding goals when the ball actually goes quite close to him - if you are annalysing games as closely as you say, you will notice. Also many posters have agreed over the years that Davis is weak in commanding his area. These things do have a knock on affect. More players are needed to guard his six yard area which leaves less defenders to mark and guard space which forwards can and do exploit.

 

I can easily have a technical/tactical opinion on the team defense, however there are more than enough posters already making those points some of which I would agree with. My points are to balance the argument and broaden the thinking, it's not personal and it may not be the majority opinion on here but it's logical and thought through.

 

We have a difficult situation with goalkeepers, Bialkowski is now coming out of what could be looked at in goalkeeping terms as a nervous breakdown. His loan at Barnsley did him good and he had another decent game against Charlton he may however still be fragile, only time will tell if he is needed.

 

It doesn't look like Forecast is rated and Poke is on loan. Davis then really is the number one.

 

He is probably one of the best reaction keepers for shot stopping around. He appears nervous and that affects the defenders. He doesn't dominate the box and is pretty much line bound. He rarely throws the ball out and mostly after about 20 secs possession boots it up field creating a 50/50 situation at the best.

 

I personally would prefer a good all round keeper that dominated the penalty area with instant distribution to keep the game going. Even if he isn't as good a shot stopper.

 

At the moment unless we get another keeper in there is no real alternative, so there is no point in emphasising the goalkeeping situation.

[derry]

We are nowhere near the finished article. I expect major surgery in the next two transfer windows. I expect us to be in division one next season but stranger things have happened. If by good fortune we do get into the championship I think the surgery would be quite dramatic.

[S-Clarke]

We are nowhere near the finished article. I expect major surgery in the next two transfer windows. I expect us to be in division one next season but stranger things have happened. If by good fortune we do get into the championship I think the surgery would be quite dramatic.

 

i agree with you, there is alot of work to be done on this team to get us even close to the likes of Leeds. I'm not talking in terms of first team quality...more squad depth and a settled working team formation.

 

when they go up this year i fully expect them to do a Leicester tbh, if they keep hold of beckford that is.

 

That is what we need to do, as it's been shown - build a good team at L1 level, win most weeks and you'll go into the championship being able to compete with the top 6 teams.

[derry]

i agree with you, there is alot of work to be done on this team to get us even close to the likes of Leeds. I'm not talking in terms of first team quality...more squad depth and a settled working team formation.

 

when they go up this year i fully expect them to do a Leicester tbh, if they keep hold of beckford that is.

 

That is what we need to do, as it's been shown - build a good team at L1 level, win most weeks and you'll go into the championship being able to compete with the top 6 teams.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if at least a third of the present first choice team are no longer first choice by the summer.

[Stepgar]

I wouldn't be surprised if at least a third of the present first choice team are no longer first choice by the summer.

 

A third..... That's is quite a lot so who do you think won't be there?

[SNSUN]

A case of the defence not being good enough perhaps. Harding is good on the left, but defensively we're weak on the right *****il Murty comes back). Jaidi is a good player, but you have to look at his age, and he needs to be paired with someone quicker in the centre of defence. Thomas, Perry and Trotman don't fulfil these requirements.

 

In addition, the few times I've seen Morgan this season, I've not been impressed. We're practically a midfielder light because of it. Wotton may be the figure of fun on here, but defensively could he protect the back 4?

 

I don't think we'll keep a clean sheet against Norwich, but keeping it to 1 or 2 goals and we could scrape a draw, which is my prediction for this weekend.

[John B]

i agree with you, there is alot of work to be done on this team to get us even close to the likes of Leeds. I'm not talking in terms of first team quality...more squad depth and a settled working team formation.

 

when they go up this year i fully expect them to do a Leicester tbh, if they keep hold of beckford that is.

 

That is what we need to do, as it's been shown - build a good team at L1 level, win most weeks and you'll go into the championship being able to compete with the top 6 teams.

 

Yes I agree

 

When we go up we need to be able to challenge in the CCC.

 

If we build this season finish in the top ten and win the JPT I will be happy

[sadoldgit]

We have a difficult situation with goalkeepers, Bialkowski is now coming out of what could be looked at in goalkeeping terms as a nervous breakdown. His loan at Barnsley did him good and he had another decent game against Charlton he may however still be fragile, only time will tell if he is needed.

 

It doesn't look like Forecast is rated and Poke is on loan. Davis then really is the number one.

 

He is probably one of the best reaction keepers for shot stopping around. He appears nervous and that affects the defenders. He doesn't dominate the box and is pretty much line bound. He rarely throws the ball out and mostly after about 20 secs possession boots it up field creating a 50/50 situation at the best.

 

I personally would prefer a good all round keeper that dominated the penalty area with instant distribution to keep the game going. Even if he isn't as good a shot stopper.

 

At the moment unless we get another keeper in there is no real alternative, so there is no point in emphasising the goalkeeping situation.

 

 

I don't think that Davis is the problem. There are times when the defence just seem to lose concentration and fail to give him any protection. We had some good chances against Brighton but nothing like the ones they carved out for themselves. The goal against Charlton was another example of the defence switching off and not playing as a unit. If you look at all the goals scored against us how many could you say were down to Davis?

[rooney]

There has always been a problem with Kelvin not coming out to domineer his box. Kuipers did exactly the opposite on Sunday. I think the problem is that he is not tall enough for current day standards, where he has big strikers and big defenders, on set pieces, in and around the box to contend with.

[krissyboy31]

There has always been a problem with Kelvin not coming out to domineer his box. Kuipers did exactly the opposite on Sunday. I think the problem is that he is not tall enough for current day standards, where he has big strikers and big defenders, on set pieces, in and around the box to contend with.

 

Completely agree with this. This season has been more comfortable, in so much as he has big ball winning defenders in front of him but even now it puts pressure on the defence to win all of the headers. In theory a goalkeeper should be able to punch the ball 18" to 2ft higher than any player can jump due to arm extension. Never been apparent with Davis in goal.

[Wes Tender]

Your implication that my comment on Davis is simply a technically uneducated 'easy option' is as far from the truth as you could be. On the contrary, my annalysis was taking all the technical abilities of our current and in addition all the other Davis era defences into consideration - were all those defences poor? The statistics show that over his period in goal we have consistantly conceded more goals than most of our rivals, perhaps apart from one year.

 

Take note on Saturday, it's uncanny that Davis is conceding goals when the ball actually goes quite close to him - if you are annalysing games as closely as you say, you will notice. Also many posters have agreed over the years that Davis is weak in commanding his area. These things do have a knock on affect. More players are needed to guard his six yard area which leaves less defenders to mark and guard space which forwards can and do exploit.

 

I can easily have a technical/tactical opinion on the team defense, however there are more than enough posters already making those points some of which I would agree with. My points are to balance the argument and broaden the thinking, it's not personal and it may not be the majority opinion on here but it's logical and thought through.

 

Well, let's have a look at the number of different defenders that Davis had had in front of him since he arrived on 21st July 2006 just ahead of the 2006/7 season.

 

2006/7

Ostlund, Baird, Pele, Bale, Makin, Wright, Lundekvam, Powell.

 

2007/8

Vignal, Wright, Thomas, Makin, Ostlund, Wright, Dailly, Ifil, Scacel, Davies, Bennett, Powell, Lucketti.

 

2008/9

Svensson, Perry, Surman, James, Wotton, Lancashire, Mills, Pearce, Scacel, Saeijs.

 

2009/10

Murty, Harding, Jaidi, Trotman, Thomas, James.

 

Now, I make that 29 different defenders in not even three and a half seasons. Not exactly a settled defence that has experience of playing together, is it? Potentially, the defence that is most settled is the Pardew one, which will be improved by the return of Murty for James.

 

Looking at the other seasons under Burley, Dodd/Gorman and the two Dutch jokers, the defences comprised many who didn't stay long before moving on, short term loans, those prone to injury, callow youths or those well past their sell by date, or others playing out of their natural positions.

 

If Davis is to accept any blame for his shortcomings, then it is only fair that any who disparage his performance over this period, name a better goalkeeper at this level.

 

As for Derry's assertion that it might be better to have a good all round goalkeeper that dominated the penalty area with instant distribution to keep the game going, even if he isn't as good a shot stopper, I disagree. If the keeper fails to be a shot stopper, then a goal is scored, whereas a good strong defence can help a keeper who isn't so dominant and a good midfield can help make something of the keepers distribution.

 

Captainchris:Take note on Saturday, it's uncanny that Davis is conceding goals when the ball actually goes quite close to him

Surely it is far more difficult to make saves when the ball is closer to the keeper? In a crowded defence, there is less room to manoeuvre in, less time to react to a rival's player toe poking in a loose ball. Nothing unusual about those circumstances. It is up to the defence to clear the loose balls in the box if the keeper cannot get to them.