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How many of our players are CCC standard ?


alpine_saint

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I'm gonna be the optimist for once and say the play-offs are do-able, but there is no more margin for error.

 

If we get to the play-offs, I reckon we could seriously do the other two teams. This would mean CCC footie next season.

 

How many of our players who played in the starting line-up on Saturday could you see still there next season ?

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Lambert

Connelly

Barnard

Fonte

Lallana

Harding

Morgan

Hammond

Semi

Davis

Bart

Puncheon

 

If we signed Antonio think he could do a job as a squad player, as would James.

 

Havent included Jaidi and Perry because i think they will retire in the summer. Didnt include seabourne because i havent seen enough of him yet.

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I was wondering about Jaidi, Semi and Thomas myself, but then I also have doubts about whether Lallana and Schneiderlin can make the step-up too (I am sure that comes as no surprise).

 

There is also the question as to whether we should be ambitious and get ourselves a bit more strength in goal.

 

I would dearly love to think Connelly can put his injuries behind him at some point, but it seems we should think of another forward too.

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I'm gonna be the optimist for once and say the play-offs are do-able, but there is no more margin for error.

 

If we get to the play-offs, I reckon we could seriously do the other two teams. This would mean CCC footie next season.

 

How many of our players who played in the starting line-up on Saturday could you see still there next season ?

 

Trouble is players can look good one season and crap the next, and even vice versa. Gillett looked indispensable at one time last season for example, and where is he now?

 

But if they keep their form, I'd see:

 

Davis, Harding, Fonte, Llallana, Puncheon, Lambert for certain , and 1 or 2 of Schneiderlin, Hammond, Barnard, or James as CCC players

 

Jaidi I suspect will be on the way down by then....33? 34? Otsemobor is certainly playing well enough now, but will it last? If he really is that good consistently, why did Norwich let him go?

 

Antonio has the raw talent and may develop or may not.

 

So in short we do already have the basis of a CCC team IMO.

 

K.

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I was wondering about Jaidi, Semi and Thomas myself, but then I also have doubts about whether Lallana and Schneiderlin can make the step-up too (I am sure that comes as no surprise).

 

Adam and Morgan didn't look out of place in the Championship last season. This season both have improved.

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Davis, Morgan, Lallana and Fonte easily.

 

Harding, Jaidi just about (he's proven it with birmingham)

 

Lambert as well IMO - although he's never been at that level, i don't think he'll struggle to score goals.

 

couple of players on the borderline - Barnard, Punch, Hammond, Jonny

 

but it's not bad really, we've got a really good nucleus of a team which can travel up the leagues.

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My feeling is the TEAM could easily compete in the CCC. I am a firm believer that teams create success, not individuals. And that includes the Manager and possibly even the key coaching staff and Chairman too. Unity, consistency and of course the pre-requisite of skill will win out - but the Chairman HAS to show commitment and balls to create the environment to allow the team to mature. Our previous Chairman did not do this and it is a big contributory reason for our downfall.

 

In terms of how well we could compete in the CCC is difficult to predict, because its another league where every team can beat every other team on its day. We can remember this only too well from our time in the CCC. The issue I have come to realise is largely about stamina and sheer physical capacity in players. There comes a point in a players career where he simply cannot give anymore - he just does not have the capacity to run faster, be more skilful, have more vision, etc etc. It is at this time that a replacement must be found and this is the most difficult time for a team manager, especially if more than one key player needs to be replaced. Team unity is increasingly at risk the more players you need to replace, but on the other hand if you get it right the team plays better as a whole and unity is restored or improved. Sounds obvious, but its the toughest part of being a Manager.

 

AP has prepared us well for the CCC IMO. Look at his latest additions and you will see that he is planning not just for promotion but for a stable side in the CCC. The following players are definately good enough IMO...

 

Lambert, Connolly, Barnard, Waigo.

Lallana, Puncheon, Schneiderlin, Hammond (possibly Antonio)

Harding, Fonte, Jaidi (if able), Semi - (possibly Seaborne but jury is out), Thomas

Davis, Bart

 

The rest of the 1st team squad is not good enough to make the step up and should be released in the summer or January at the latest. The key is to keep the above players together as long as possible and replace the leavers with fewer, but better players - particularly in defence and central midfield.

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To have a chance at the play offs in the CCC we would need a right back, a centre back, a central midfielder and a striker. Players like Hammond, Barnard, Ostemebor, Jaidi and James are fine for squad cover but would need replacing in the starting eleven.

 

Would probably cost another 4-5 million to get us up to the premier league. It's a very competitive league and only going to get stronger with Leeds and Norwich going up.

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Why have you ignored Pardew's first choice right back?

 

Moi? I haven't unless you're talking about Murty. Unfortunately he will not achieve the fitness levels to compete with Semi IMHO and will almost certainly either be on a PAYP contract or will be released. As much as I like Murts and rated him highly before his injury, I believe we need to move on and find a capable back-up for Semi. I suppose this could be James or indeed Thomas - both good enough utility players for CCC.

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I think the whole of the current squad could hold its own in the CCC finishing above the relegation zone.

 

 

However to be in a squad to finish in the top six

 

Davis and Fonte Schneiderlin

 

Lallana should but did not do well last season

 

Harding Seabourne Lambert Probably

 

Hammond Barnard Possibly

Edited by John B
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I think its obvious they have got much more about them than the last team we had in the championship. If things went ok we might finish mid table with this crop.

 

But with the finances available should we go up I would expect us to be looking to add greater quality, perhaps prem quality players on bigger wages. Thats why it would be so amazing to go up. We would be fairly competitive without spending much more though.

 

Who we keep their places would depend who we could get in i reckon, and if we do go up it would mean we have had the best run in ever, so all the players involved would deserve a chance at the champ.

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The 11 that played Saturday, plus Connolly, Thomas, Murty, and Bart. Thats it. I have doubts about whether Morgan and Hammond could run a game in the Championship. The likes of Gillett, James, Seaborne, Antonio, Waigo, Holmes, Mills, Perry could be part of a mediocre Championship squad but should never get near the first XI if we have serious ambitions.

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I think that the squad from Saturday would be a mid-table CCC team. We probably need a new CB or two as Perry, Jaidi and Thomas wouldn't be up to the CCC next season. Otsemobor would be decent back up in CCC. The four in midfield on Saturday would be fine to start in the CCC, but to really compete we'd probably have to improve on Hammond and we would need a better quality paceman that Antonio or Waigo, although they should probably bothe be in the squad. Lamber is fine up front and should do well in the CCC. Barnard might be OK - I just haven't seen enough of him in the two home league matches he's played. We definitely need another striker though as those two plus Connolly isn't enough.

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They're all (I mine all those around the first team) CCC standard in terms of ability IMO. You would have to put question marks over Jaidi and Perry to continue at that level though for another season.

 

Seabourne is untested at that level so he might arguably be deemed not good enough, but I think he will be. I think he's better than Calum Davenport, Andreas Jakobson, Pele (insert other poor Saints centre back who's played at a higher level here).

 

There are a few who wouldn't set the world alight but I don't think there are any who would be out of their depth as part of a settled, well coached side.

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Lambert, Fonte, Connolly, Barnard, Lallana, Davis, Bart, Harding, Schneiderlin.

 

Waigo and Antonio, are a bit of a maybe. I'd try and take Waigo on another season long loan next year, not sure I'd keep him permanently. Antonio will be good enough one day, we should definitely sign him. Hammond is a maybe, as are Semi and Holmes. Jaidi I think will be too old by the time we get there. Ditto Murty. Haven't see Seaborne yet.

 

Definite nos, IMO, are: Pulis, Wotton, James, Forecast, Perry and Molyneux.

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Lambert, Fonte, Connolly, Barnard, Lallana, Davis, Bart, Harding, Schneiderlin.

 

Waigo and Antonio, are a bit of a maybe. I'd try and take Waigo on another season long loan next year, not sure I'd keep him permanently. Antonio will be good enough one day, we should definitely sign him. Hammond is a maybe, as are Semi and Holmes. Jaidi I think will be too old by the time we get there. Ditto Murty. Haven't see Seaborne yet.

 

Definite nos, IMO, are: Pulis, Wotton, James, Forecast, Perry and Molyneux.

 

Jardi's had one hell of a season though and as far as I can see he is as good tyhis season as he was last. No pace, but he hasn't had that for a few years. I'd give him another season no matter which league we are in. He looks better than Seaborne, who is quicker but no where near as good in the air.

 

I agree with you on Hammond and Semi. I seriously doubt Hammond is quick enough to cope with the step up. Semi hasn't impressed me at all, he doesn;t get tight enough or show the desire to win tackles.

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Jardi's had one hell of a season though and as far as I can see he is as good tyhis season as he was last. No pace, but he hasn't had that for a few years. I'd give him another season no matter which league we are in. He looks better than Seaborne, who is quicker but no where near as good in the air.

 

I agree with you on Hammond and Semi. I seriously doubt Hammond is quick enough to cope with the step up. Semi hasn't impressed me at all, he doesn;t get tight enough or show the desire to win tackles.

 

Cruyff? ;)

 

I'd keep him definitely, but based losely on the assumption that we were promoted this year, he'd be 35 at the start of the season. HCDAJFU, but I wouldn't be betting on him staying fit for a season, a la Burley with Claus and Powell in '07. :rolleyes:

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Lambert, Fonte, Connolly, Barnard, Lallana, Davis, Bart, Harding, Schneiderlin.

 

Waigo and Antonio, are a bit of a maybe. I'd try and take Waigo on another season long loan next year, not sure I'd keep him permanently. Antonio will be good enough one day, we should definitely sign him. Hammond is a maybe, as are Semi and Holmes. Jaidi I think will be too old by the time we get there. Ditto Murty. Haven't see Seaborne yet.

 

Definite nos, IMO, are: Pulis, Wotton, James, Forecast, Perry and Molyneux.

 

Bit harsh to include Lloyd James in with that lot he'd be a valuable squad member in the CCC, one of the best bench options at the club and he's still young.

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CCC: Davis, Fonte, Puncheon, Morgan, Pulis, Lallana, Lambert, Barnard, Connolly, Waigo

Maybe: Semi, Jaidi, Harding, Hammond, Antonio, James, Murty

No: Thomas, Perry, Wotton, Holmes, Poke, Forecast, Molyneux, Lancashire, Gillett, Thomson

Depends if they can perform and develop: Bart, Seaborne, Gobern, Mills

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Moi? I haven't unless you're talking about Murty. Unfortunately he will not achieve the fitness levels to compete with Semi IMHO and will almost certainly either be on a PAYP contract or will be released. As much as I like Murts and rated him highly before his injury, I believe we need to move on and find a capable back-up for Semi. I suppose this could be James or indeed Thomas - both good enough utility players for CCC.

 

Yeah, and the last time Saints hesitated in bringing in a proper replacement player, it was for Michael Svensson, and that cost us dearly.

 

I like Murty too though.

 

Isn't it easier to cite the players who aren't up for the CCC..?

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Davis, Morgan, Lallana and Fonte easily.

 

Harding, Jaidi just about (he's proven it with birmingham)

 

Lambert as well IMO - although he's never been at that level, i don't think he'll struggle to score goals.

 

couple of players on the borderline - Barnard, Punch, Hammond, Jonny

but it's not bad really, we've got a really good nucleus of a team which can travel up the leagues.

 

Sorry, but who's Jonny?

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Sod the CCC, currently Fonte is Premiership quality. Looking forward to taking my first look at Puncheon tomorrow to see how he rates. You could forgive me for thinking that, as he's played in Serie A, and could do better in the bigger leagues, that Waigo may be Premiership class, although he's been inconsistant down here in League One.

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I'm gonna be the optimist for once and say the play-offs are do-able, but there is no more margin for error.

 

If we get to the play-offs, I reckon we could seriously do the other two teams. This would mean CCC footie next season.

 

How many of our players who played in the starting line-up on Saturday could you see still there next season ?

 

 

I had to read that twice. ;)

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Sod the CCC, currently Fonte is Premiership quality. Looking forward to taking my first look at Puncheon tomorrow to see how he rates. You could forgive me for thinking that, as he's played in Serie A, and could do better in the bigger leagues, that Waigo may be Premiership class, although he's been inconsistant down here in League One.

 

He looked good when he went wide on Saturday. Put it on a plate twice for Lallana.

Puncheon offers a lot more than Antonio, he looks very confident on the ball and expect to see plenty of goals from him.

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CCC: Davis, Fonte, Puncheon, Morgan, Pulis, Lallana, Lambert, Barnard, Connolly, Waigo

Maybe: Semi, Jaidi, Harding, Hammond, Antonio, James, Murty

No: Thomas, Perry, Wotton, Holmes, Poke, Forecast, Molyneux, Lancashire, Gillett, Thomson

Depends if they can perform and develop: Bart, Seaborne, Gobern, Mills

 

:smt103:???::rolleyes:

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Bit harsh to include Lloyd James in with that lot he'd be a valuable squad member in the CCC, one of the best bench options at the club and he's still young.

 

He would be my 4th choice RB, 4th choice RM and 4th choice CM. Not particularly convincing in any of them IMO. Plus at 22 he isn't all THAT young.

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I think many of you are vastly overrating the actual standard of the CCC.

Leicester went up last season and are doing really well,Peterborough aren't though.Swansea looked for a long time as if they'd get in the play-offs last season in their first season up and Newcastle are absolutely ****ing all over most Championship sides, displaying the vast gulf between the premier league

and the CCC.Middlesborough you all cry, well they were doing pretty well but they changed a good manager for a burnt out one and have paid the price a bit.

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I think many of you are vastly overrating the actual standard of the CCC.

Leicester went up last season and are doing really well,Peterborough aren't though.Swansea looked for a long time as if they'd get in the play-offs last season in their first season up and Newcastle are absolutely ****ing all over most Championship sides, displaying the vast gulf between the premier league

and the CCC.Middlesborough you all cry, well they were doing pretty well but they changed a good manager for a burnt out one and have paid the price a bit.

 

Agree. Gillett who can't get into Saints first team was playing regularly for Doncaster this season.

I'd say the players who played on saturday are more than capable of playing in the CCC.

Wotton, Pulis, Molyneux, Lancashire would struggle IMO.

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He would be my 4th choice RB, 4th choice RM and 4th choice CM. Not particularly convincing in any of them IMO. Plus at 22 he isn't all THAT young.

 

Well it's a good job Pardew see's it differently imo. He's played more games than most this season and apart from a handfull of games he's had a positive influence.

 

I'd say 22 is young, I guess that's just a matter of opinion though he's far from the finished article and over ther last 18 months he's improved more than anyone.

 

As for being fourth choice in midfield who's the third midfielder who's better? Please don't say Wotton...

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Well it's a good job Pardew see's it differently imo. He's played more games than most this season and apart from a handfull of games he's had a positive influence.

 

I'd say 22 is young, I guess that's just a matter of opinion though he's far from the finished article and over ther last 18 months he's improved more than anyone.

 

As for being fourth choice in midfield who's the third midfielder who's better? Please don't say Wotton...

 

He's played many of those games at RB and just hasn't looked good. Slow and useless in the air. Also makes errors, like that school boy lunge to give away a penalty against Norwich.

 

I'm not saying he's old, but he is hardly a kid either. If he was 17 or 18, I'd get the 'he's young and learning' line. At 22 however I'd hope for more composure and consistency.

 

I wasn't thinking of Wotton, although having seen James in the middle at Leeds, I would preffer Wotton. Morgan and Hammons obviously, then Puncheon.

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I think our 1st eleven could hold there own at CCC level, I don't think Jaidi & Perry will be with us next season.

Definite :-

Davis & Bart

Fonte & Harding

Puncheon, Lallana, Schneiderlin,

Lambert, Connolly(if fit doubtful)

probables:-

Ostemabor,

Hammond

Barnard

Waigo (if we decide to buy him)

Maybe's:-

Mills

Antonio (very raw at the moment)

Seabourne

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Agree with those that say it's down to blending (gelling!) a teamtogether. We have certainly got some good players at this time but not sure how many would survive a promotion? If we went up we would presumably be aiming for the top six from the off rather than mid-table consolidation? Is the current side a top 6 Ccc side? It's barely a top six side in this league ( for a number of reasons). IFwe went up and AP was offerred 4-5 new players who would be sure of keeping their place? Davis FOnte Morgan Llalana Puncheon LAmbert IMHO are well up to it, I Rate WAigo, and maybe squad players BArt HAmmond BArnard?

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