The Bigger Picture

[sadoldgit]

As dear old Mr Godwin would have said, "You couldn't make it up."

 

After the Wycome game the usual wrist slitters were moaning and groaning. Now all of a sudden we are Brazil. Until the next poor result again of course when it will all be doom and gloom again.

 

In fact one individual was calling for Pardew to be fired "with extreme prejudice" if we are not ripping up the league by next Christmas??? Go figure.

 

Spare me the drama queens and take a look at the bigger picture.

 

With quiet dignity Alan Pardew has gone about turning this club from a bunch of losers on the brink of extinction into a team that can go places (up not down this time).

 

Okay, for all of the reasons we know, we were slow out of the blocks at the start of the season with the lead weight of -10 points dragging at our heels. We are notoriously bad at adapting as a club. We never really got to grips with the CCC after relegation and probably thought that we only had to turn up in the 3rd Division and teams would roll over and play dead. Well they don't and it took us a while to find our feet. But we did and we put some decent results togther before Christmas.

 

Pardew then dipped into the transfetr market again and strengthened and, so far, it looks like he got it bang on. After a run of games where teams were changed because of cup tied players, injuries and suspensions, the new players have now bedded in and we are looking very strong. There will always be a Wycombe but we have had more good results than bad this season yet there are plenty here just waiting for the next poor result to start having a pop at the manager.

 

After what has happened last season and over the summer we, the fans, have every reason to feel optimistic about the future. Yes, down in large measure to our new Swiss benefactor, but also down to the work of Mr Pardew.

 

To all of the moanning minnies out there, get off his back the next time we don't play like Brazil and just take a look at what he has achieved already since he has been here (and no, that is not down to Mr Corteses's silly public tantrum).

 

Support your manger and live in the real world.Even before the excellent results against Norwich, Walsall and Huddersfield it was plain to see for posters who know something about football that we have a competitive club again. Be thankfull and stop *****ing when there are hiccups. We had those aplenty even under the mighty Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy too. There will be more to come but that is a part of football as much as it is a a part of life.

 

Just look at the bigger picture for a change. For the first time in a long time it is worth looking at.

[NickG]

Chelsea and Man U are at the level they want - they still have off days.

 

This club has been turned around, Pardew is doing a great job.

[RobM]

I've said it many times before and I'll keep on saying it... Before the start of this season the vast, vast majority of fans and certainly users of this forum were of the same opinion, that we are lucky to have a club, we will take a season to rebuild and then push for promotion to the CCC in season two. We all said anything out of the relegation zone was an achievement and mid-table would be great.

 

Yet suddenly those same people have changed their opinion and are questioning AP because we're not likely to hit the playoffs this season.

 

Look at the Blue Few down the road and think back a season as a reminder of where we were and how far we have come. If it takes two seasons to get promoted, as we all expected and hoped, we should be delighted.

[dubai_phil]

One of the arguments that was trotted out on here was how Leeds turned around a 15 point penalty to reach the playoffs.

 

What that fails to take into account is the destruction that was caused last season in the abortive attempt to stay in business.

 

When Leeds went down and into meltdown they had not been shredded of every last vestige of footballing processes. We talk about the re-building job, but while we had a group of talented (but shell-shocked) youngsters our operations on the playing side were if not "In the Red" certainly "In the Orange".

 

If Only are the two worst words in the English Language, so we cannot say If Only we had got off to a better start, it's like blaming yourself for NOT putting the right winning numbers on a lottery ticket, we can only say LEARN.

 

Last night was great to listen to and made me wish I was there. But Saturday is very important. It will be a bad pitch, we have played badly on bad pitches. Have we now LEARNT? in which case the bigger picture is rosy or will it be "If Only" in which case we aren't QUITE there yet

[Saint Fan CaM]

Top, top post SOG - completely agree. =D>

[Foxstone]

Pards picks his side well, has generally bought well and his erudite and positive communication style seems to work very well with the players, and is appreciated by the fans too.

 

He is doing a great job.

[thorpie the sinner]

Very good post, about time someone said it!! Just hope we can win ugly on Sat if it comes to it!!

[CB Fry]

One of the arguments that was trotted out on here was how Leeds turned around a 15 point penalty to reach the playoffs.

 

What that fails to take into account is the destruction that was caused last season in the abortive attempt to stay in business.

 

When Leeds went down and into meltdown they had not been shredded of every last vestige of footballing processes. We talk about the re-building job, but while we had a group of talented (but shell-shocked) youngsters our operations on the playing side were if not "In the Red" certainly "In the Orange".

 

 

 

What a load of horseshi t. Leeds were in total disarray, their fans were in uproar after what Bates had done to them and they had five more points than we did deducted. And they hated Wise.

 

Getting pretty sick of people trotting out this myth that Leeds danced down to League one in a conga of calypso joy all ready to charge back up again.

 

Leeds had it at least as tough as we did, if not worse. Unless you are comparing Leibherr to Ken Bates. I know who I'd rather have.

[CB Fry]

As dear old Mr Godwin would have said, "You couldn't make it up."

 

After the Wycome game the usual wrist slitters were moaning and groaning. Now all of a sudden we are Brazil. Until the next poor result again of course when it will all be doom and gloom again.

 

In fact one individual was calling for Pardew to be fired "with extreme prejudice" if we are not ripping up the league by next Christmas??? Go figure.

 

Spare me the drama queens and take a look at the bigger picture.

 

With quiet dignity Alan Pardew has gone about turning this club from a bunch of losers on the brink of extinction into a team that can go places (up not down this time).

 

Okay, for all of the reasons we know, we were slow out of the blocks at the start of the season with the lead weight of -10 points dragging at our heels. We are notoriously bad at adapting as a club. We never really got to grips with the CCC after relegation and probably thought that we only had to turn up in the 3rd Division and teams would roll over and play dead. Well they don't and it took us a while to find our feet. But we did and we put some decent results togther before Christmas.

 

Pardew then dipped into the transfetr market again and strengthened and, so far, it looks like he got it bang on. After a run of games where teams were changed because of cup tied players, injuries and suspensions, the new players have now bedded in and we are looking very strong. There will always be a Wycombe but we have had more good results than bad this season yet there are plenty here just waiting for the next poor result to start having a pop at the manager.

 

After what has happened last season and over the summer we, the fans, have every reason to feel optimistic about the future. Yes, down in large measure to our new Swiss benefactor, but also down to the work of Mr Pardew.

 

To all of the moanning minnies out there, get off his back the next time we don't play like Brazil and just take a look at what he has achieved already since he has been here (and no, that is not down to Mr Corteses's silly public tantrum).

 

Support your manger and live in the real world.Even before the excellent results against Norwich, Walsall and Huddersfield it was plain to see for posters who know something about football that we have a competitive club again. Be thankfull and stop *****ing when there are hiccups. We had those aplenty even under the mighty Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy too. There will be more to come but that is a part of football as much as it is a a part of life.

 

Just look at the bigger picture for a change. For the first time in a long time it is worth looking at.

 

 

 

Yawn. It's people like you who sneered and mocked anyone who thought the play offs were possible this season.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked the idea that Pardew could make an instant impact.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked and pontificated that we'd all have to wait three seasons to acheive anything because that's what Lawrie did.

 

Well, thank fu c k you're not taking the team talks. Thank fu ck you're not in the dressing room telling the team to forget doing anything this season, and that all we and the players should expect is to be clear of relegation.

 

Pardew is delivering instant success. Just like I and others said he would, and you said was "unrealistic".

 

Pardew is delivering instant success, just like Alan and Nicola knew they would.

 

Instand success, instantly delivered. Well done Alan and a two fingers to the arse aching bores who gave up this season as a bad job before a ball was kicked because "it takes three seasons to do anything".

 

No it doesn't. I've never thought so. Alan Pardew never thought so.

 

And guess what. I'm right, and Alan Pardew is right. Two fingers up to the arse aching bores.

[Thedelldays]

good posts CB...agree as always

 

my expectations have never changed this season...I have always expected a playoff challenge..and I guess those who are in power at the club did also

 

I wonder if soggy and his ilk think we are way over achieving seeing as they "hoped to survive"..

 

I think it is their expectations that are constantly changing whilst having a pop at others

[dubai_phil]

What a load of horseshi t. Leeds were in total disarray, their fans were in uproar after what Bates had done to them and they had five more points than we did deducted. And they hated Wise.

 

Getting pretty sick of people trotting out this myth that Leeds danced down to League one in a conga of calypso joy all ready to charge back up again.

 

Leeds had it at least as tough as we did, if not worse. Unless you are comparing Leibherr to Ken Bates. I know who I'd rather have.

 

Did not say Leeds danced down in a conga of joy.

 

Our disarray off the pitch was as large or worse than theirs was.

 

Leeds did not sack anyone who knew about English Football in their demise.

 

Everything surrounding our FOOTBALL operations was raped. AP was on his own and has done an astonishing job of recruiting at every level.

 

It is not "an excuse" it is an understanding that the situation existed. For all we know Rupert himself gave the squad their Summer Break fitness programme based on a book left by SCW. Leeds had a Football Back Office operation when they melted down, we didn't.

 

Want to compare details? What date did Wise have a #2 or a first team coach or a chief scout?

 

So as you choose to label my discussion point Horseh1t, I choose to label you a Lowe apologist as you obviously never understood what had happened to the football side of our club.

 

Was that what YOU meant? Of course not

[Thedelldays]

ken bates and dennis wise with little/no money

 

Markus and Pardew with league one unlimited cash..

 

hmmmmm

[INFLUENCED.COM]

CB is lively this morning !

[NickG]

good posts CB...agree as always

 

my expectations have never changed this season...I have always expected a playoff challenge..and I guess those who are in power at the club did also

 

I wonder if soggy and his ilk think we are way over achieving seeing as they "hoped to survive"..

 

I think it is their expectations that are constantly changing whilst having a pop at others

 

who said we should just aim for survival?

[NickG]

Leeds had Prutton!

 

They also won their first 7 games

[dubai_phil]

ken bates and dennis wise with little/no money

 

Markus and Pardew with league one unlimited cash..

 

hmmmmm

 

No....

 

The OP is entitled The Bigger Picture.

 

To see the Bigger Picture you have to look at ALL circumstances.

 

AP starts from what in footballing terms is a Nuclear Wasteland. His and others comments are on record saying what a mess there was.

 

AP is on his own on Day One.

 

He has to recruit a complete staff, he has to sign players with no scouting network. He rebuilds the club from Ground Zero.

 

He had MORE work to do than Wise et al did at Leeds.

 

He has worked a Miracle at our club. The moaners do not see the BIGGER PICTURE of how much he has done.

 

Some moan that it is not fast enough. Some moan that we are not consistent enough. Some moan that some moan.

 

AP has "In The Bigger Picture" pulled this club up by it's braces and given us our most enjoyable season for YEARS.

 

It is a miracle, it is a fantastic effort BECAUSE it is not just that he has rebuilt the side, he brought in Dean Wilkins and rebuilt a scouting network that FOUND Fonte, Puncheon, Barnard, Ostemobor.

 

He has done a Hell of a lot more than pick his best team and get them "gelling together".

 

That is the Big Picture and THAT is what the moaners haven't taken into account.

 

Will we make the playoffs? AP says it will need a lot of hard work and a lot of luck. That is my opnion as well. Great if we do, but if we DON'T at least we now have a REAL football club this season not some stupid ego trip or a skeleton of a failed "Corporate Cost Reduction Exercise"

[Daren W]

No....

 

The OP is entitled The Bigger Picture.

 

To see the Bigger Picture you have to look at ALL circumstances.

 

AP starts from what in footballing terms is a Nuclear Wasteland. His and others comments are on record saying what a mess there was.

 

AP is on his own on Day One.

 

He has to recruit a complete staff, he has to sign players with no scouting network. He rebuilds the club from Ground Zero.

 

He had MORE work to do than Wise et al did at Leeds.

 

He has worked a Miracle at our club. The moaners do not see the BIGGER PICTURE of how much he has done.

 

Some moan that it is not fast enough. Some moan that we are not consistent enough. Some moan that some moan.

 

AP has "In The Bigger Picture" pulled this club up by it's braces and given us our most enjoyable season for YEARS.

 

It is a miracle, it is a fantastic effort BECAUSE it is not just that he has rebuilt the side, he brought in Dean Wilkins and rebuilt a scouting network that FOUND Fonte, Puncheon, Barnard, Ostemobor.

 

He has done a Hell of a lot more than pick his best team and get them "gelling together".

 

That is the Big Picture and THAT is what the moaners haven't taken into account.

 

Will we make the playoffs? AP says it will need a lot of hard work and a lot of luck. That is my opnion as well. Great if we do, but if we DON'T at least we now have a REAL football club this season not some stupid ego trip or a skeleton of a failed "Corporate Cost Reduction Exercise"

 

Dammit Phil, that's the one cliche I hate, people mocking it taking time for a team to gel. What I saw last night and Saturday was a team that now knew each other's game and was playing as one... and it takes time to do that. Did people really think we'd buy a whole new set of players and bingo, they'd playing sides off the park? No, it takes a bit of time, a bit of luck and you can get a team like the one we fielded this week...

 

So much to look forward to this season and the next...

[Frank's cousin]

Think the truth is somewhere in the middle..(fence sitting for Alpine ;-)) - I think its only natural that given we were so darn pleased to still have a club, that many felt it would take a while and would be satisfied with mid table given the -10 point start....

 

BUt consider the NC rant for moment - we took 8 games to win (yes there was undoubtedly that non pre-season rationale), but hasd we won just two of those games, possibly three that ended in draws and we would be sitting on an additional 6 points and be in my book favourites to get a playoff spot right now given the form.... The money invested in both players and in the manager (Pards will not have come cheaply given his prem experience) is huge for this division and so rightly expectations from NC/ML were set very high - perhaps higher than we as fans thought possible or perhaps fair to Pards...yet we have only lost 6 games this season in the...read that again 6 losses out of 30 odd games - but a few too many draws are why we are so far behind the playoff places right now - so YES Pards has done fantatsically well, has bought wisely and has us playing attractive football and turned us around - YES he deserved the credit and the praise, BUT we must remember our squad and form suggest a playoff place iand its only the odd lapse that has meant we are still some way off... YES we need to learn how to grind out extra points on soggy turnip fields, churned up by eggchaser and cows, but we should with this squad be up there.

 

For me I will judge this as a successful season if we miss out on the playoffs by less than 10 points - the deduction - that would be fair as depite the heavy investment, on level terms automatic promotion would have been unrealistic given the timing of Pards arrival, but a Playoff place should be expected given teh investment and quality we have - so anything more than 10 0points off the playoffs come season end would for me be dissapointing....

 

Next season there will be no excuses - automatic promotion should be the only target, with a playoff place a dissapointing consolation prize.

 

BUt Pards has done more than ennough to deserve the chance to lead us there. That would be my message to NC.

[alpine_saint]

As dear old Mr Godwin would have said, "You couldn't make it up."

 

After the Wycome game the usual wrist slitters were moaning and groaning. Now all of a sudden we are Brazil. Until the next poor result again of course when it will all be doom and gloom again.

 

In fact one individual was calling for Pardew to be fired "with extreme prejudice" if we are not ripping up the league by next Christmas??? Go figure.

 

Spare me the drama queens and take a look at the bigger picture.

 

With quiet dignity Alan Pardew has gone about turning this club from a bunch of losers on the brink of extinction into a team that can go places (up not down this time).

 

Okay, for all of the reasons we know, we were slow out of the blocks at the start of the season with the lead weight of -10 points dragging at our heels. We are notoriously bad at adapting as a club. We never really got to grips with the CCC after relegation and probably thought that we only had to turn up in the 3rd Division and teams would roll over and play dead. Well they don't and it took us a while to find our feet. But we did and we put some decent results togther before Christmas.

 

Pardew then dipped into the transfetr market again and strengthened and, so far, it looks like he got it bang on. After a run of games where teams were changed because of cup tied players, injuries and suspensions, the new players have now bedded in and we are looking very strong. There will always be a Wycombe but we have had more good results than bad this season yet there are plenty here just waiting for the next poor result to start having a pop at the manager.

 

After what has happened last season and over the summer we, the fans, have every reason to feel optimistic about the future. Yes, down in large measure to our new Swiss benefactor, but also down to the work of Mr Pardew.

 

To all of the moanning minnies out there, get off his back the next time we don't play like Brazil and just take a look at what he has achieved already since he has been here (and no, that is not down to Mr Corteses's silly public tantrum).

 

Support your manger and live in the real world.Even before the excellent results against Norwich, Walsall and Huddersfield it was plain to see for posters who know something about football that we have a competitive club again. Be thankfull and stop *****ing when there are hiccups. We had those aplenty even under the mighty Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy too. There will be more to come but that is a part of football as much as it is a a part of life.

 

Just look at the bigger picture for a change. For the first time in a long time it is worth looking at.

 

The other "moaning minnies" and myself will continue to express our impression and opinion when we like, thankyouverymuch.

 

So we have turned out three tremendous and impressive results on three bowling green standard pitches : Norwich, and ours twice.

 

To get promoted, which is MLs and NCs aim, and our expectation, we have to get results week in, week out, on whatever pitch is thrown at us. We were awful at Exeter, and again at Wycombe. AP himself admittted after Wycombe he didnt know how to deal with it.

 

AP has to find the tactics or line-up to deal with these pitches, because if he doesnt we wont have the consistency of result to get promoted.

 

Its a fact, he knows it, NC knows it. It has to be dealt with.

 

And until it is, I shall continue to "whinge" and "moan".

[alpine_saint]

Yawn. It's people like you who sneered and mocked anyone who thought the play offs were possible this season.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked the idea that Pardew could make an instant impact.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked and pontificated that we'd all have to wait three seasons to acheive anything because that's what Lawrie did.

 

Well, thank fu c k you're not taking the team talks. Thank fu ck you're not in the dressing room telling the team to forget doing anything this season, and that all we and the players should expect is to be clear of relegation.

 

Pardew is delivering instant success. Just like I and others said he would, and you said was "unrealistic".

 

Pardew is delivering instant success, just like Alan and Nicola knew they would.

 

Instand success, instantly delivered. Well done Alan and a two fingers to the arse aching bores who gave up this season as a bad job before a ball was kicked because "it takes three seasons to do anything".

 

No it doesn't. I've never thought so. Alan Pardew never thought so.

 

And guess what. I'm right, and Alan Pardew is right. Two fingers up to the arse aching bores.

 

Excellent post. About time more of our fan base had ambition to match that of NC, ML and (I hope) AP.

[Saint_clark]

Excellent post. About time more of our fan base had ambition to match that of NC, ML and (I hope) AP.

 

What happened to, "Is that really necessary? We are all on the same side"?

[Thedelldays]

who said we should just aim for survival?

so many people at the start of the season...then it went on to throwing in the "unrealistic" line when form picked up slightly

[alpine_saint]

For me I will judge this as a successful season if we miss out on the playoffs by less than 10 points - the deduction - that would be fair as depite the heavy investment, on level terms automatic promotion would have been unrealistic given the timing of Pards arrival, but a Playoff place should be expected given teh investment and quality we have - so anything more than 10 0points off the playoffs come season end would for me be dissapointing....

 

Next season there will be no excuses - automatic promotion should be the only target, with a playoff place a dissapointing consolation prize.

 

BUt Pards has done more than ennough to deserve the chance to lead us there. That would be my message to NC.

 

Completely agree - until Xmas. Hope NC feels the same.

[Saint_clark]

so many people at the start of the season...then it went on to throwing in the "unrealistic" line when form picked up slightly

 

Nobody EVER said we should be aiming to finish just outside the relegation spots. Most people said we should not expect to go up this year. There is a big difference.

[Minty]

Isn't it a shame that even after a couple of fantastic results, we still have threads that invoke the same kind of arguments between fellow fans. IMO, the end of the season is the time to look back and (if you really must) start the 'I was right, you were wrong, ner ner ne ner ner' bo!!ocks. Not that there really IS a right or wrong answer to this kind of thing... everyone has different expectations, and a different level of tolerance of things if those expecatations aren't met.

 

FC's post above gives quite a good balanced view IMO, but ultimately, why can't fans just be happy with recent results, instead of seemingly always looking to make a point and get one over a fellow fan?

[Thedelldays]

these threads should be deleted by mods...

 

yes, i have started these in the past but dont really anymore...waste of time and space

[The Kraken]

Frank's Cousin has it right. There's the typical tubthumping from either end of the spectrum; the "happy to still be a club and anything better than relegation is good enough" crowd and the "playoffs is the minimum expectation for the season" lot.

 

The truth is that most posters fit into the middle ground, yet get continually accused of being in one of the aformentioned categories when they happen to disagree with one of the above.

 

My expectation, and many others I'm sure for the season, has always been that mid-table is the minimum with definite signs of improvement in the second half of the season for a potential play offs push. If that happens then great, but the minimum aim was to start looking like a very good team in the latter stages of the season so that if we don't go up this season then next season there's no excuses. And that seems to be where we are right now.

[alpine_saint]

What happened to, "Is that really necessary? We are all on the same side"?

 

If you had quoted the whole thing, instead of paraphrasing, everyone would have seen that I mentioned about being on the same side but with differering opinions, and that post was in response to someone taking the p*ss out of me on Radio Solent.

[Minty]

Nobody EVER said we should be aiming to finish just outside the relegation spots. Most people said we should not expect to go up this year. There is a big difference.

 

Indeed, this polarising of views is completely unrealistic. I was one who said we should not *expect* play-offs this season, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't *aim* for them. I simply expected to see consistent improvement and if things went well then of course you adjust your aims. Which I did. Expectations can and should change depending on the progress made, so I really don't see the point in all this harking back to before the season and trying to point score based on it.

[eurosaint]

The other "moaning minnies" and myself will continue to express our impression and opinion when we like, thankyouverymuch.

 

So we have turned out three tremendous and impressive results on three bowling green standard pitches : Norwich, and ours twice.

 

To get promoted, which is MLs and NCs aim, and our expectation, we have to get results week in, week out, on whatever pitch is thrown at us. We were awful at Exeter, and again at Wycombe. AP himself admittted after Wycombe he didnt know how to deal with it.

 

AP has to find the tactics or line-up to deal with these pitches, because if he doesnt we wont have the consistency of result to get promoted.

 

Its a fact, he knows it, NC knows it. It has to be dealt with.

 

And until it is, I shall continue to "whinge" and "moan".[/QUOTE]

 

Well there's a shock, at least you are consistent, I'll give you that !

[once_bitterne]

As dear old Mr Godwin would have said, "You couldn't make it up."

 

 

Do you mean Um Pahars? What ever happened to him? LOL!!

[alpine_saint]

Do you mean Um Pahars? What ever happened to him? LOL!!

 

He left with his tail between his legs, crushed by the sheer intellectual force of comments from members like you and SOGGY.

[NickG]

so many people at the start of the season...then it went on to throwing in the "unrealistic" line when form picked up slightly

 

you use it against me when I predicted 8th before season started.

[NickG]

Completely agree - until Xmas. Hope NC feels the same.

 

what else did NC tell you?

[Thedelldays]

Nobody EVER said we should be aiming to finish just outside the relegation spots. Most people said we should not expect to go up this year. There is a big difference.

really..the first "expectation" thread I find says other wise...there are plenty others too that mirror this

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=16322

[SaintRichmond]

One of the arguments that was trotted out on here was how Leeds turned around a 15 point penalty to reach the playoffs.

 

What that fails to take into account is the destruction that was caused last season in the abortive attempt to stay in business.

 

When Leeds went down and into meltdown they had not been shredded of every last vestige of footballing processes. We talk about the re-building job, but while we had a group of talented (but shell-shocked) youngsters our operations on the playing side were if not "In the Red" certainly "In the Orange".

 

If Only are the two worst words in the English Language, so we cannot say If Only we had got off to a better start, it's like blaming yourself for NOT putting the right winning numbers on a lottery ticket, we can only say LEARN.

 

Last night was great to listen to and made me wish I was there. But Saturday is very important. It will be a bad pitch, we have played badly on bad pitches. Have we now LEARNT? in which case the bigger picture is rosy or will it be "If Only" in which case we aren't QUITE there yet

 

Valid comments

 

Every Away Team Manager must now be giving their Groundsman very simple instructions .... GET A TRACTOR AND ROUGH UP THE PITCH

 

If all our matches were at St Mary's, our FOOTBALL would carry the day

 

Just my opinion I know, but what takes the edge off the last two results, is the fact that had we not dropped stupid points against very poor Teams, we WOULD be that much closer to the Top Six

 

I personally think that we will miss out on the Play Offs by 3 points, which, when you compare that to the way we are NOW playing, will be a very bitter pill to swallow:cool:

[The9]

Apart from Colchester, the teams with the worst pitches are all in the bottom 7, so it must be something to do with their club's resources.

[Danish Saint]

Think the truth is somewhere in the middle..(fence sitting for Alpine ;-)) - I think its only natural that given we were so darn pleased to still have a club, that many felt it would take a while and would be satisfied with mid table given the -10 point start....

 

BUt consider the NC rant for moment - we took 8 games to win (yes there was undoubtedly that non pre-season rationale), but hasd we won just two of those games, possibly three that ended in draws and we would be sitting on an additional 6 points and be in my book favourites to get a playoff spot right now given the form.... The money invested in both players and in the manager (Pards will not have come cheaply given his prem experience) is huge for this division and so rightly expectations from NC/ML were set very high - perhaps higher than we as fans thought possible or perhaps fair to Pards...yet we have only lost 6 games this season in the...read that again 6 losses out of 30 odd games - but a few too many draws are why we are so far behind the playoff places right now - so YES Pards has done fantatsically well, has bought wisely and has us playing attractive football and turned us around - YES he deserved the credit and the praise, BUT we must remember our squad and form suggest a playoff place iand its only the odd lapse that has meant we are still some way off... YES we need to learn how to grind out extra points on soggy turnip fields, churned up by eggchaser and cows, but we should with this squad be up there.

 

For me I will judge this as a successful season if we miss out on the playoffs by less than 10 points - the deduction - that would be fair as depite the heavy investment, on level terms automatic promotion would have been unrealistic given the timing of Pards arrival, but a Playoff place should be expected given teh investment and quality we have - so anything more than 10 0points off the playoffs come season end would for me be dissapointing....

 

Next season there will be no excuses - automatic promotion should be the only target, with a playoff place a dissapointing consolation prize.

 

BUt Pards has done more than ennough to deserve the chance to lead us there. That would be my message to NC.

 

Absolutely agree!

[Scummer]

Apart from Colchester, the teams with the worst pitches are all in the bottom 7, so it must be something to do with their club's resources.

 

Or maybe they are rubbish at playing on poor pitches as well......

[dune]

The fact remains that if we don't go up to Tranmere and show we can play on a muddy pitch against a mediocre team then we've still got an achiles heel. Last night was a special night, as was the Wallsall game, but we've got to push on and do the business at the bread butter grounds of this division.

[Daren W]

Indeed, this polarising of views is completely unrealistic. I was one who said we should not *expect* play-offs this season, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't *aim* for them. I simply expected to see consistent improvement and if things went well then of course you adjust your aims. Which I did. Expectations can and should change depending on the progress made, so I really don't see the point in all this harking back to before the season and trying to point score based on it.

 

Hindsight is a great thing isn't it? We started the season with a poor squad and minus ten points. If anyone had views of definite promotion then, then they'd be some huge sort of optimist...

 

As it is we acquired a shrewd chairman, a great manager, some great players and belief started to grow. But to say "I was aiming for promotion all along" is just bloody stupid...

 

I'd like to think we're all surprised at just how good we've become...

[The9]

Or maybe they are rubbish at playing on poor pitches as well......

 

Most of them seem to be as good as us at it...

[yorkiesaint]

I guess the thing is that at one stage we were 8 or 9 points off the playoffs with most of the season still to go. This reasonably raised expectations that we had a good chance of going up this season. Then all of a sudden we are 17 points off the playoffs, getting literally bogged down by crap teams that deliberately ruin their pitch ahead of our games.

 

This bad run coincided with the loss of good players to injury, and with the time available preseason we were always going to struggle if we lost a few first team players.

 

There are some plus points:

 

we have played 2 less home games than most teams ahead of us.

 

with lambert and barnard on form the necessary hoof ball play away from home has two to drop to.

 

I'm sure yesterday was the team AP had in mind when he signed the jan players, so he deserves credit for this.

[CB Fry]

Did not say Leeds danced down in a conga of joy.

 

Our disarray off the pitch was as large or worse than theirs was.

 

Leeds did not sack anyone who knew about English Football in their demise.

 

Everything surrounding our FOOTBALL operations was raped. AP was on his own and has done an astonishing job of recruiting at every level.

 

It is not "an excuse" it is an understanding that the situation existed. For all we know Rupert himself gave the squad their Summer Break fitness programme based on a book left by SCW. Leeds had a Football Back Office operation when they melted down, we didn't.

 

Want to compare details? What date did Wise have a #2 or a first team coach or a chief scout?

 

So as you choose to label my discussion point Horseh1t, I choose to label you a Lowe apologist as you obviously never understood what had happened to the football side of our club.

 

Was that what YOU meant? Of course not

 

 

 

I'd rather be owned by a billionaire, with a manager supported by the entire city. I'd take Southampton in Summer 2009 when the whole city was revitalised by our new billionaire owner, dynamic chief exec and big name manager. I'd take that over what Leeds went through.

 

Leeds went from the play off final and one game away from the Premier League to L1 and utter meltdown and Ken Bates raping the club within a calander year. With a football mad city in complete turmoil. With local businesses stiched up by Bates. With a fanbase feeling their club had been stolen away from them. With protests and hatred and fury and boycotts.

 

But they had a first team coach and a kit man, so obviously much better than being able to spend £1m on the league's foremost striker.

 

Yeah, the big picture definitely says Leeds United had it easy.

 

If the picture was completely reversed, and we'd kept Wotte and Gorre but didn't get to buy Lambert, or Harding, or Hammond or all the rest of the big names Marcus's billions have got us then you'd be whining like a b1tch how hard done by we were.

 

I very much doubt you'd be crowing about how lucky we were to have "a football back office operation".

 

So yes, I do want to "compare details". And yes, what you posted previously was utter horsesh it.

 

Christ.

[Wes Tender]

I'm happy to look at the bigger picture. It is almost worth it for Lowe to have come back in alliance with the Quisling, appointing the two Dutch no-hopers, playing the youth team and suffering our relegation to the third division to be where we are now.

 

If that hadn't all come to pass, then we might not have gone into administration and never have been saved by Markus Liebherr.

 

I haven't enjoyed the football here as much for many a year, so looking at the big picture, we indirectly have Lowe and Wilde to thank, don't we Soggy?

[NickG]

I'd rather be owned by a billionaire, with a manager supported by the entire city. I'd take Southampton in Summer 2009 when the whole city was revitalised by our new billionaire owner, dynamic chief exec and big name manager. I'd take that over what Leeds went through.

 

Leeds went from the play off final and one game away from the Premier League to L1 and utter meltdown and Ken Bates raping the club within a calander year. With a football mad city in complete turmoil. With local businesses stiched up by Bates. With a fanbase feeling their club had been stolen away from them. With protests and hatred and fury and boycotts.

 

But they had a first team coach and a kit man, so obviously much better than being able to spend £1m on the league's foremost striker.

 

Yeah, the big picture definitely says Leeds United had it easy.

 

If the picture was completely reversed, and we'd kept Wotte and Gorre but didn't get to buy Lambert, or Harding, or Hammond or all the rest of the big names Marcus's billions have got us then you'd be whining like a b1tch how hard done by we were.

 

I very much doubt you'd be crowing about how lucky we were to have "a football back office operation".

 

So yes, I do want to "compare details". And yes, what you posted previously was utter horsesh it.

 

Christ.

 

are you ok?

[JackFrost]

Yawn. It's people like you who sneered and mocked anyone who thought the play offs were possible this season.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked the idea that Pardew could make an instant impact.

 

People like you that sneered and mocked and pontificated that we'd all have to wait three seasons to acheive anything because that's what Lawrie did.

 

Well, thank fu c k you're not taking the team talks. Thank fu ck you're not in the dressing room telling the team to forget doing anything this season, and that all we and the players should expect is to be clear of relegation.

 

Pardew is delivering instant success. Just like I and others said he would, and you said was "unrealistic".

 

Pardew is delivering instant success, just like Alan and Nicola knew they would.

 

Instand success, instantly delivered. Well done Alan and a two fingers to the arse aching bores who gave up this season as a bad job before a ball was kicked because "it takes three seasons to do anything".

 

No it doesn't. I've never thought so. Alan Pardew never thought so.

 

And guess what. I'm right, and Alan Pardew is right. Two fingers up to the arse aching bores.

 

Judging by that it's people like you who'd be calling for Pardew to be sacked everytime we went 5 games without a win.

 

Pardew has done an excellent job here and instant success was far from being a guarantee.

 

Not referring to you directly here but it continues to amaze me how many people thought anything but a lengthy string of wins and rocketing up the table to the playoffs with Pardew was failure, yet bashed Lowe for his managerial record.

 

I don't agree with SOG on a lot of things but he's got it spot on this time

Edited 3 March, 2010 by JackFrost

[LostBoys]

I think we will make the playoffs but if we don't will I slit my wrists - actually no I will come back for next season. I have no problem with this season only the lads deserve bigger crowds

[georgeg]

great post SOG - common sense talking!

[View From The Top]

If Saints aren't there or thereabouts come Xmas (If we are in L1) then I do think AP may well be for the chop.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong I believe it is entirely feasible.