First 10 compared to Last 24

[Matthew Le God]

Been discussed before but it really is shocking!

 

Saint's form over last 24 games since the start of October is League winning

 

P   W  D  L  F   A   GD  PTS
24 14  6  4  51  23  28  48

 

Apply that form over a whole season and you would be on 92 points after 46 games. Even with the -10 points that would make 82 points and good enough for the playoffs.

 

Shame Saints had a rubbish first 10 games whilst Pardew put the team together.

 

First 10 games...

 

P   W  D  L  F   A   GD  PTS
10  1  6  3  10  12  -2  9

 

Those first ten games killed the season.

 

Still possible to get 83 points so playoffs can be made and likely to need to win 11 of the next 12 games.

[Saint_clark]

We get the message, FFS.

OR

How long are we going to use the poor start to the season as an excuse?

(Never understood that second one. Those first 10 results were awful whether we are 12 games in or have played all 46).

[RedAndWhite91]

Form we're on there's no reason why we can't win 11 of the next 12, but we can't afford to have any Tranmere/Wycombe-esque cóck ups, obviously.

[NickG]

bodes well for next season and shows that Pardew has done his job. The only criticism that could be thrown at him is that he did not start the season quick enough but he didn't have the players he has had since - or even the first team coach didn't arrive until towards the end of that poor period

[buctootim]

Form we're on there's no reason why we can't win 11 of the next 12, but we can't afford to have any Tranmere/Wycombe-esque cóck ups, obviously.

Que? we've got 13 points from the last 6 games and 22 points from the last 12. Neither of those is going to be nearly enough. We'd need 33 points from the last 12 IMO and that aint going to happen.

[Colinjb]

We get the message, FFS.

OR

How long are we going to use the poor start to the season as an excuse?

(Never understood that second one. Those first 10 results were awful whether we are 12 games in or have played all 46).

 

It's no excuse, it's a fact. For the first ten games we sucked.

 

The league doesn't lie though, as it is based on overall form.

 

God I can't wait for next season.

[Matthew Le God]

We get the message, FFS.

OR

How long are we going to use the poor start to the season as an excuse?

(Never understood that second one. Those first 10 results were awful whether we are 12 games in or have played all 46).

 

I didn't say it was an excuse. I'm just saying it is hard to criticize Pardew because over a long period (i.e. the last 24 games) he has made Saints into a team that is earning enough points to win this League if form is maintained. Yes, I know the season didn't start in October, but it bodes well. Makes Cortese's recent comments about League performance a little harsh. Pardew turned it round 5 months ago.

[Saint_clark]

I didn't say it was an excuse. I'm just saying it is hard to criticize Pardew because over a long period (i.e. the last 24 games) he has made Saints into a team that is earning enough points to win this League if form is maintained. Yes, I know the season didn't start in October, but it bodes well.

 

Missed the point mate, those two are the classics spouted by those on hear who moan for moanings sake. I was taking the p*ss out of them.

[Matthew Le God]

Missed the point mate, those two are the classics spouted by those on hear who moan for moanings sake. I was taking the p*ss out of them.

 

Sorry, its late and only skim read what you put.

 

I know really you aren't an Alpine or Glasgow.

[Saint_clark]

Sorry, its late and only skim read what you put.

 

I know really you aren't an Alpine or Glasgow.

 

I know what you mean, see my spelling of "here" in that post.

[St Landrew]

Several of us have made the point about the first 10 games losing us our chance of promotion this season. Some of us have put this down to a lack of pre-season, and having to quickly turn the morale of the squad around, while others have said that's complete rubbish. I think the stats are with us.

[Arizona]

All the good signs are there for next season. Only Norwich score more goals per game and only Leeds and Millwall concede fewer. At least two of those teams probably wont be here next season and the teams replacing them aren't all that special.

 

A few more happy stats:

 

- Everyone except Saints, Leeds and Brentford have let in 4 or more goals in a match, at some point this season.

- We've scored in all but 4 games. Only Norwich have drawn fewer blanks, 2, one of them was against us.

- We've only lost by more than one goal twice, Huddersfield and Brighton.

- Only Huddersfield have better goal supremecy at home (goal difference per game)

- Only Leeds and Norwich have better goal supremecy away.

 

This is over our whole season, not just our form since October.

[Gigersaint]

As much as I'd love to see us get into the play off's I just can't see it happening this season.

 

Although I feel disappointed that we may not make it back up this season I will be looking forward to the next one where I hope and think we can do even better and go up as Champions instead, one where we can enjoy a journey at the top of the league for most if not all of of it!

 

Southampton FC - League 1 Champions is what I'd love to see, Top Team, Top Manager, Top Season, Top Finish, not 2nd placed runners up or Wembley play off winners.

[chrisobee]

If memory serves I believe the concensus back in July/August was that all the upheaval was almost certainly going to impact on the early part of the season. However, irrespective of how good my memory is in regard to that point I'd have been absolutely amazed if we had not got off to a slow start. When you look at the millions spent by say Real Madrid it is clear no matter what you do and how much you spend time always is a major issue and only since January do I believe we have seen what I'd describe as AP's team. As I say often it took LM FOUR years to rebuild the team that got relegated in 1974, it was of course made far more bearable by the '76 FA Cup win.

As I stated in the "Best signing" thread these were LM's signings 1974-78:

 

David Peach

Peter Osgood ( Ok, he and Peach were signed during our relegation season but we were well and truly on the slide by then, the 1st game Peach played in we lost 7-0 at Ipswich !)

Mel Blyth

Jim McCalliog

Peter Rodrigues- So there are 5 of the FA Cup winning side for starters

 

Ted McDougall

Alan Ball

Chris Nichol

Mick Pickering

Phil Boyer- 5 more along with Peach instrumental in our 1977/78 promotion success

 

Essentially 2 sets of signings, only Peach really made a major impact in 1977/78, Osgood left in November 1977 I think.

So promotion in 2 years which I'm very confident we'll achieve is for this "Saint" wholly acceptable and I just wish Cortese would stop sending out what I see as mixed messages and state he fully backs Pardew rather than coming out with quotes such as:

 

" “We spent quite a considerable amount of money in the transfer window,

 

“Simply, when you do that automatically your expectations change.

 

“When the manager comes to ask me about buying players, we also talk about what we are going to end up with when we are buying those players.

 

“So we were always on the same page with what we want to achieve."

 

Which in the context of the Echo report:

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/5060343.Cortese_denies_Pardew_rift/

 

Is quite simply no less than the play offs. In terms of the article's headline:

" Cortese denies Pardew rift " I'm not convinced he does say that. Fair to say if I had to chose between the 2 I'd buy the ticket back to Switzerland myself !

Quite simply I have no doubt AP is an excellent manager and I see no realistic alternative even if I wanted one, I don't thank you Mr Cortese.

[alpine_saint]

Missed the point mate, those two are the classics spouted by those on hear who moan for moanings sake. I was taking the p*ss out of them.

 

You can take the p*ss as much as you want, but looking at the so-vaunted form for the last few months, beating the likes of Leeds and Norwich and tw*tting the life out of Huddersfield and Walsall, the performances and results of Exeter, Wycombe and Tranmere stand out like sore thumbs and should not have happened. They are what has seriously endangered our quest to reach the playoff places.

 

Despite our progress, the team has a weakness that needs to be addressed before next season: I make no bones about it, am not embarassed to point it out and am certainly not going to apologise for harking on about it.

[madsent]

Form we're on there's no reason why we can't win 11 of the next 12, but we can't afford to have any Tranmere/Wycombe-esque cóck ups, obviously.

 

I agree that we could win our last 7 home games. Away from home, it's a different kind of form. Apart from a 5 game run when we got 13 points, we've gained 10 points from 13. Only 7 points from the last 8 away games tells the story of why we fell away after getting within 9 points of the playoff zone.

[Window Cleaner]

Form we're on there's no reason why we can't win 11 of the next 12, but we can't afford to have any Tranmere/Wycombe-esque cóck ups, obviously.

 

 

 

Although AP thinks that by winning 9 of the last 12 we still have a chance.

Wouldn't think so myself (about 9 wins) but that's what the man said.

[John B]

Been discussed before but it really is shocking!

 

Saint's form over last 24 games since the start of October is League winning

 

P   W  D  L  F   A   GD  PTS
24 14  6  4  51  23  28  48

 

Apply that form over a whole season and you would be on 92 points after 46 games. Even with the -10 points that would make 82 points and good enough for the playoffs.

 

Shame Saints had a rubbish first 10 games whilst Pardew put the team together.

 

First 10 games...

 

P   W  D  L  F   A   GD  PTS
10  1  6  3  10  12  -2  9

 

Those first ten games killed the season.

 

Still possible to get 83 points so playoffs can be made and likely to need to win 11 of the next 12 games.

 

I still think Pardew and the team should have got more points in the first ten games another four or five would have made all the difference.

[alpine_saint]

I still think Pardew and the team should have got more points in the first ten games another four or five would have made all the difference.

 

I am willing to cut the man slack on this; we have no idea what a disorganised demotivated shambles the dressing room was, what with all the fragile egos around.

 

However, the results from Tranmere and Wycombe on the backdrop of the other results of the last month or so are unacceptable.

[NickG]

You can take the p*ss as much as you want, but looking at the so-vaunted form for the last few months, beating the likes of Leeds and Norwich and tw*tting the life out of Huddersfield and Walsall, the performances and results of Exeter, Wycombe and Tranmere stand out like sore thumbs and should not have happened. They are what has seriously endangered our quest to reach the playoff places.

 

Despite our progress, the team has a weakness that needs to be addressed before next season: I make no bones about it, am not embarassed to point it out and am certainly not going to apologise for harking on about it.

 

Burnley 1 Man U 0

Fulham 3 Man U 0

Man 0 Leeds 1

 

It happens.

[John B]

I am willing to cut the man slack on this; we have no idea what a disorganised demotivated shambles the dressing room was, what with all the fragile egos around.

 

However, the results from Tranmere and Wycombe on the backdrop of the other results of the last month or so are unacceptable.

 

Well I wont the first few games were unacceptable a new manager should have done a lot better.

 

However things are now a great deal better and the few dropped points normal playing against relegation threatened teams

[iansums]

Been discussed before but it really is shocking!

 

Saint's form over last 24 games since the start of October is League winning

 

P   W  D  L  F   A   GD  PTS
24 14  6  4  51  23  28  48

 

Apply that form over a whole season and you would be on 92 points after 46 games. Even with the -10 points that would make 82 points and good enough for the playoffs.

 

Shame Saints had a rubbish first 10 games whilst Pardew put the team together.

 

First 10 games...

 

P   W  D  L  F   A   GD  PTS
10  1  6  3  10  12  -2  9

 

Those first ten games killed the season.

 

Still possible to get 83 points so playoffs can be made and likely to need to win 11 of the next 12 games.

 

I looked at these figures the other day and found that both Norwich and Millwall had more points over the last 24 games, we would be third, level on points with Swindon. So it's not league winning form but we are getting there.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Interesting to hear AP thinking that 9 wins might be enough. Thing is, if you check the form of some teams in the top 6 there is some evidence that their seasons are starting to unravel a little bit and they could drop points. Particularly if we have to play them. Swindon is a good case - Huddersfield another. It's still looking very unlikely that we will do it, but the fight is not over yet and all credit to AP - he is clearly communicating a positive approach to both the players and supporters alike. Can't ask for more TBH.

[Glasgow_Saint]

We get the message, FFS.

OR

How long are we going to use the poor start to the season as an excuse?

(Never understood that second one. Those first 10 results were awful whether we are 12 games in or have played all 46).

 

Negative! Just support the club FFS.

 

Anymore of this and BOOOOM you'll be on my ignore list

[Turkish]

You can take the p*ss as much as you want, but looking at the so-vaunted form for the last few months, beating the likes of Leeds and Norwich and tw*tting the life out of Huddersfield and Walsall, the performances and results of Exeter, Wycombe and Tranmere stand out like sore thumbs and should not have happened. They are what has seriously endangered our quest to reach the playoff places.

 

Despite our progress, the team has a weakness that needs to be addressed before next season: I make no bones about it, am not embarassed to point it out and am certainly not going to apologise for harking on about it.

 

Not really, average two points a game, which we have done the last 24 games, do it over a season gives 92 points. That will be enough to make us champions next season.

[londonsaint1604]

Not really surprising is it. People were talking about a relegation fight this year!

 

Enjoy another season in league 1 and we'll be back in the championship in 2011

[sadoldgit]

I have been supporting Saints since 1966 and there hasn't been a season under any manager when we haven't dropped points when we "shouldn't have."

 

As has been said, it happens to every team. Given Norwich;s form I am sure they didn't expect to lose at home to us and so convincingly.

 

When we were promoted under Lawrie Mac you could argue that she "sould have" gone up as Champs. We "should have" beaten Spurs in the last match at The DEll but contived to draw the game with Tony Funnell missing a sitter.

 

I think it is fair to say that we are easily one of the top 6 teams in this league. What we have lacked is consistency but since Pardew has been able to bring more of his own players in that has improved a great deal. Only one league defeat this year and it is nearly April. That is something to be very pleased about rather than fretting about the odd poor result.

 

If Cortese puts his hand in his (sorry MLs) pocket again in the summer there is no reason to think that we won't be serious contenders next season, but we will not win every game.

[MorningtonCrescent]

I am willing to cut the man slack on this; we have no idea what a disorganised demotivated shambles the dressing room was, what with all the fragile egos around.

 

However, the results from Tranmere and Wycombe on the backdrop of the other results of the last month or so are unacceptable.

 

Tranmere was actually the first time this season that AP's team showed they really could scrap it out with a "so called" smaller team on their own patch. Saints deserved far more from the game, we controlled large parts of the game and only lost due to the most incompetent referee I have watched for many a year.He wasn't biased, particularly, just inept. He cost us the game.

 

But the referee is not the reason I have posted this, it is because we did turn around our "form" on poor pitches away from home and if we continue to address this in games to come it will show that AP has taken on board yet another area that needs work and is making a difference.

 

We still have a few potential banana skins to overcome. Brighton (but their home form is appalling) - Yeovil and Gillingham. We need to get good points from these three games - I would like to think we can secure at least 6, but 7 would be excellent. If we can do that at those three, then I think we will have a very interesting end to the season!

 

:-D

[mikee]

The league may not lie, but it doesn't tell you a lot of things. Those first 10 games were not this team. Next season will be this team, that's the important point.

 

I disagree, the league table does lie - it says we have won 47 points when in fact we have won 57.

 

We will definately finish within 10 points of the playoffs and could still make them, even with the 10 point deduction and poor start.

 

Surely this proves that Pardew is doing an amazing job and that those slagging him off either have a personal problem with Pardew which is clouding their judgement or are too stubborn to change an opinion formed over those first ten games.

[braveheart1983]

This is sounding like Rooney's season....not much good for 10 then amazing for the last 24.

[madsent]

But the referee is not the reason I have posted this, it is because we did turn around our "form" on poor pitches away from home and if we continue to address this in games to come it will show that AP has taken on board yet another area that needs work and is making a difference.

 

 

We did not turn around our form on poor pitches. Our run of decent away form was when the pitches were still in reasonable nick. Since the weather turned in December, the record is : 1W, 4D, 3L. The win was at Norwich who have a pitch comparable to ours in quality. We had the lead in 3 of the draws as well.

[Barry the Badger]

If you look at the players from the Millwall game on the first day of the season.

 

Davis, Perry, Thomas, Wotton... Those players had spent the previous 1 or 2 years only really losing football matches (for us).

 

Lallana, Paterson, James, Schneiderlin had essentially spent their entire football careers to that point only really losing football matches (for us).

 

We had a team who had forgotten how to win. It was always going to take time to get them to believe in themselves again or bring in players who could help them do that.

[Frank's cousin]

I am willing to cut the man slack on this; we have no idea what a disorganised demotivated shambles the dressing room was, what with all the fragile egos around.

 

However, the results from Tranmere and Wycombe on the backdrop of the other results of the last month or so are unacceptable.

 

BUt Alps the problem is that you see these results as unacceptable BECAUSE of the points lost during those first 10 games - had we had two points per game average all season (as we have had this year ( we would now have an extra 11 points with a game in hand) and would be in a play off place should we win it- beacuse some of thos epoints would have come against teams above us in those places now)

 

Had we not had such a bad start, then the bad results such as those against Tranmere would be seen for what they actually are - anomolies due to a variety of circumstances that EVERY team suffer even during a very good season - its why Leeds and Norwich have lost and drawn games that on paper they would have been expected to win.

 

I am not making an excuse for the defeats, but just pointing out that you defining them as 'unacceptable' is based on the context of the early season bad form - WHICH has been put right. Had we not had that bad form at the start, then the context of these defeats would be entirely different... that is all anyone is pointing out, not making excuses.

[iansums]

BUt Alps the problem is that you see these results as unacceptable BECAUSE of the points lost during those first 10 games - had we had two points per game average all season (as we have had this year ( we would now have an extra 11 points with a game in hand) and would be in a play off place should we win it- beacuse some of thos epoints would have come against teams above us in those places now)

 

Had we not had such a bad start, then the bad results such as those against Tranmere would be seen for what they actually are - anomolies due to a variety of circumstances that EVERY team suffer even during a very good season - its why Leeds and Norwich have lost and drawn games that on paper they would have been expected to win.

 

I am not making an excuse for the defeats, but just pointing out that you defining them as 'unacceptable' is based on the context of the early season bad form - WHICH has been put right. Had we not had that bad form at the start, then the context of these defeats would be entirely different... that is all anyone is pointing out, not making excuses.

 

Thank F*** AP only has to report to Cortese and not Alpine Saint

[aintforever]

Pardew's done well IMO, people forget what a basket case the club was last summer.

[brmbrm]

The 6thplaced teams:

 

CCC 52 from 35 games

L1 63 from 35

L2 55 from 36

 

That's what wil kill us: the high scring rate of the 6th placed team, and there's very little we can do about it (win tonight).

[St_Tel49]

I am willing to cut the man slack on this; we have no idea what a disorganised demotivated shambles the dressing room was, what with all the fragile egos around.

 

However, the results from Tranmere and Wycombe on the backdrop of the other results of the last month or so are unacceptable.

 

H'mmm - I am sure AP was ecstatic about them. S**t happens.

[John B]

If you look at the players from the Millwall game on the first day of the season.

 

Davis, Perry, Thomas, Wotton... Those players had spent the previous 1 or 2 years only really losing football matches (for us).

 

Lallana, Paterson, James, Schneiderlin had essentially spent their entire football careers to that point only really losing football matches (for us).

 

We had a team who had forgotten how to win. It was always going to take time to get them to believe in themselves again or bring in players who could help them do that.

 

Dont forget the samething happened to both Charlton and Norwich but they started to win early

[St_Tel49]

Dont forget the samething happened to both Charlton and Norwich but they started to win early

 

Pointless comparison. They already had the players they needed and had had a pre-season.

[benjii]

This just shows that the people who were saying "there's no reason to expect us to get promoted next season" a couple of weeks ago are as clueless as I said they were.

 

Averaging two points per game over 20+ games is something only a few teams ever achieve. If this squad is kept together (largely) and the manager is retained we will go up next season (if we don't this) and it will be an amazing laugh.

Edited 16 March, 2010 by benjii

[Toadhall Saint]

You can take the p*ss as much as you want, but looking at the so-vaunted form for the last few months, beating the likes of Leeds and Norwich and tw*tting the life out of Huddersfield and Walsall, the performances and results of Exeter, Wycombe and Tranmere stand out like sore thumbs and should not have happened. They are what has seriously endangered our quest to reach the playoff places.

 

Despite our progress, the team has a weakness that needs to be addressed before next season: I make no bones about it, am not embarassed to point it out and am certainly not going to apologise for harking on about it.

 

 

It wasn't long ago that some on here were holding these teams up as something to beat Saints (and AP's team) about "we haven't beaten a top 6 team yet".

 

How times change.

[benjii]

BUt Alps the problem is that you see these results as unacceptable BECAUSE of the points lost during those first 10 games - had we had two points per game average all season (as we have had this year ( we would now have an extra 11 points with a game in hand) and would be in a play off place should we win it- beacuse some of thos epoints would have come against teams above us in those places now)

 

Had we not had such a bad start, then the bad results such as those against Tranmere would be seen for what they actually are - anomolies due to a variety of circumstances that EVERY team suffer even during a very good season - its why Leeds and Norwich have lost and drawn games that on paper they would have been expected to win.

 

I am not making an excuse for the defeats, but just pointing out that you defining them as 'unacceptable' is based on the context of the early season bad form - WHICH has been put right. Had we not had that bad form at the start, then the context of these defeats would be entirely different... that is all anyone is pointing out, not making excuses.

 

Exactly.

 

It really shouldn't require explanation but you have done it well!

[saintwarwick]

Dont forget the samething happened to both Charlton and Norwich but they started to win early

 

I think their situations were a lot clearer than ours in the close season plus they didn't have the negative start on minus 10.

[John B]

Pointless comparison. They already had the players they needed and had had a pre-season.

 

Sorry to much emphasis is being placed on not having a Pre-Season

 

The main point of a Pre season is to get match fit which was done

[saintwarwick]

We did not turn around our form on poor pitches. Our run of decent away form was when the pitches were still in reasonable nick. Since the weather turned in December, the record is : 1W, 4D, 3L. The win was at Norwich who have a pitch comparable to ours in quality. We had the lead in 3 of the draws as well.

 

The weather only got worse at the turn of the year so two of those losses can be discounted making it only one loss in the last 6 away games (not including our win in the JPT against MK Dons). However if you want to include our losses in December then at least include the 3-1 win at Walsall which was also in December

[Toadhall Saint]

Sorry to much emphasis is being placed on not having a Pre-Season

 

The main point of a Pre season is to get match fit which was done

 

Yes in a way it is but put it this way

 

Been in charge of team one week

On minus 10 points

the team has been relegated in the previous year

you do not know the players or what they are/are not capable of.

You have no back room staff

 

Not really easy to get off to a flyer is it?

[benjii]

Well, obviously we had some pre-season matches so we had a chance to get fit.

 

What we didn't have at that point though was anything resembling a coherent top-of-League One level support structure. We had no scouting. We had a skeleton staff.

 

Evidently, we have achieved a step-change since the first ten or so games. Whatever the reason, it is clear that something that needed to happen happened and took some time to do. It doesn't really matter what it was. What is clear is that we are now one of the top teams in the division. If we continue our current form until the end of the season then we will have shown Championship winning form for arounf three-quarters of it.

 

That is good.

[saintwarwick]

Sorry to much emphasis is being placed on not having a Pre-Season

 

The main point of a Pre season is to get match fit which was done

 

Are you sure? Our pre season was a lot later because we didn't even know if we would still exist half way through July, most teams were settled by this period whereas we were struggling to put a team together let alone getting up to full fitness.

[Torres]

It wasn't long ago that some on here were holding these teams up as something to beat Saints (and AP's team) about "we haven't beaten a top 6 team yet".

 

How times change.

 

 

[John B]

Are you sure? Our pre season was a lot later because we didn't even know if we would still exist half way through July, most teams were settled by this period whereas we were struggling to put a team together let alone getting up to full fitness.

 

Really I thought the squad came back early and played a number of Friendlies