notnowcato Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Do non-news stories such as the spat between Sergio Garcia and Tiger Woods do more harm to race relations than good? For those who have not followed the story, Sergio and Tiger had a falling out at The Players tournament 2 weeks ago when Sergio was upset by Tiger preparing his next shot when it was Sergio to go. These 2 have never been the best of friends. At a recent presser, Sergio was asked about Tiger and he responded by saying that he would invite Tiger for dinner and serve him fried chicken. Now this is derogatory to American blacks as it is supposed to be perpetuate the stereotype that those in the deep south eat a lot of fried chicken. If the roles were reversed and Tiger offered to cook Sergio paella, or Colin Montgomerie a deep fried mars bar, Lee Westwood a roast dinner or Rory McIlroy an Ulster Fry would this trigger such a reaction? This is of course me stretching the point BUT the killer point in all of this is that at the Champions Dinner for winning the 1997 Masters the winner, Tiger Woods, sets the menu... the main dish selected by Tiger was.... you guessed it.... Fried Chicken. Bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 I like fried chicken so if anything it is a complement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 I'd take it as a racial insult if someone invited me round for fish and chips or a roast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc1976 Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 On the issue of food-based racial stereotyping, I recall a trip to visit the grave of a relative and finding a delightful message sprayed across the WW1 memorial in northern France suggesting that 'roast bifs go home'. I have no knowledge regarding my relatives Sunday lunch of choice, but I feel confident that he was indeed attempting 'to go home' at the time. Anyway, I'm sure the irony would have been lost on the perpetrators. Not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but us Brits do seem to have adopted a general trait of tolerating those who are themselves intolerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 This has been going on between Woods and Garcia for ten years, the Players was just a continuation. They just dislike each other intensely. I personally can understand why Garcia dislikes him. Whatever the context of Garcia's remark, that thick skinned arsehole Woods just took the opportunity to jump on the racist bandwagon to shaft Garcia with the media. A real man would have just ignored it. Anybody who really believes such an arrogant egotistic person was hurt by what Garcia said in jest is living in cloud cuckoo land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 WHo remembers when Neil Ruddock got in trouble for saying to Patrick Viera he could "smell the garlic" Although none of this is as offensive as the sickena and vile chants heard from large sections of st Marys that some "looks like a wotsit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 (edited) For those not quite sure why it's a racial slur : When it was introduced to the American South, fried chicken became a common staple. Later, as the slave trade led to Africans being brought to work on southern plantations, the slaves who became cooks incorporated seasonings and spices that were absent in traditional Scottish cuisine, enriching the flavor. Since most slaves were unable to raise expensive meats, but generally allowed to keep chickens, frying chicken on special occasions continued in the African American communities of the South. It endured the fall of slavery and gradually passed into common use as a general Southern dish. So basically suggesting a black person would want to eat fried chicken as a preference is harkening back to the slave trade, and evokes all of the connotations of "owning" people of another race. Garcia should have stuck to comments about conquistadors or something. Edited 23 May, 2013 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 I worked in the Southern states of America for a few years during the 80's and we had black guys as labourers.What Garcia said was incredibly offensive and would have got him knocked out on the construction sites we worked on. It's not a question of "fish and chips" or "roast beef" or even saying that a Frenchmen smells of garlic, it is a phrase that everybody over there knows is basically a racial slur. Garcia is either incredibly stupid or meant to cause offense, as a well travelled man who spends a lot of his time in the States I lean towards a deliberate insult designed to cause maximum offense rather than a bit of banter that went wrong. It's not for us to decide what is offensive in another country and what isn't. Fact of the matter is that using fried chicken in that context is a racial slur. I once saw a guy chased all over the roof of a health centre we were working on, after he called one of the black labourers "boy". To call a grown man boy is no big deal over here, but to call to order an African American around with the term boy will cause offense in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Could this be more foody racism..... ....or just a very funny sketch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 The fried chicken jibe has it's roots in the slave trade it is deemed to be right up there in terms on insults. Remember one black yank I knew from NYC referring to his Southern cousins as "friend chicken eaters", meaning thick black folk from the old slave states. It's all very Uncle Tom's Cabin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 For those not quite sure why it's a racial slur : So basically suggesting a black person would want to eat fried chicken as a preference is harkening back to the slave trade, and evokes all of the connotations of "owning" people of another race. Garcia should have stuck to comments about conquistadors or something. None of that makes Garcia's comments racist. No more than offering to cook a Scotsman Haggis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Actually I'd imagine this thread will be locked soon by the loon "Jimmy D" as this is a "Football forum". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Racial slur issues aside, this thread is making me hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 None of that makes Garcia's comments racist. No more than offering to cook a Scotsman Haggis. It is a racial slur in America. End of, no debate about it. Whether you think it is or isn't, is irrelevant. Whether you think it should be or shouldn't be is irrelevant, it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 None of that makes Garcia's comments racist. No more than offering to cook a Scotsman Haggis. Stop being ignorant there are a few examples in this thread alone which highlight it's use as a racist slur. If you were in say Atlanta would you be ready to joke with a couple of random black guys about them being fried chicken eaters? doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 None of that makes Garcia's comments racist. No more than offering to cook a Scotsman Haggis. In the States it's a racial slur. No ifs or buts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 I like Garcia I like Woods I also like fried chicken Garcia shouldn't have said it. Woods shouldn't have reacted. The US open will be Interesting in a couple of weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Stop being ignorant there are a few examples in this thread alone which highlight it's use as a racist slur. If you were in say Atlanta would you be ready to joke with a couple of random black guys about them being fried chicken eaters? doubt it. Well how is it racist? It isn't offensive. It isn't saying there is anything bad or wrong with eating it. We sing about Tadanari Lee eating Sushi, what is the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 In the States it's a racial slur. No ifs or buts. Is Garcia from the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 It's offensive if people find it offensive. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8447457.stm Saying that it isn't offensive, or that it shouldn't be offensive doesn't magically make it ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Is Garcia from the USA? He's spent a lot of time there and has a lot of American friends. he could easily said pizza/hash browns/burgers/apple pie but he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Well how is it racist? It isn't offensive. It isn't saying there is anything bad or wrong with eating it. We sing about Tadanari Lee eating Sushi, what is the difference? If you were in say Atlanta would you be ready to joke with a couple of random black guys about them being fried chicken eaters? Go on, answer. It's not offensive to you but then I doubt you're a black man living in the USA. The racist connotation is clear - the slur being that black people in the south are too poor/uneducation/unsophisticated to have interest in anything but their next portion of fried chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Is Garcia from the USA? Woods is & it was clearly aimed at him. If it wasn't offensive then Garcia wouldn't have back peddled as quickly as he did and apologised as profusely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 It's offensive if people find it offensive. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8447457.stm Saying that it isn't offensive, or that it shouldn't be offensive doesn't magically make it ok. I find your lily livered moderating offensive , almost worth asking for refund on the £5 fee if we're going to be dictated to by you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 If you were in say Atlanta would you be ready to joke with a couple of random black guys about them being fried chicken eaters? Go on, answer. It's not offensive to you but then I doubt you're a black man living in the USA. The racist connotation is clear - the slur being that black people in the south are too poor/uneducation/unsophisticated to have interest in anything but their next portion of fried chicken. I wouldn't joke with any random people I meet in any part of the world about what they do, would be weird to do for anyone. What I would worry about is any grown adult male, of sound mind, being upset at someone suggesting they like a certain food due to their particular background. Most black lads I know would come back with some decent banter about the state of English food, not start crying about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Woods is & it was clearly aimed at him. If it wasn't offensive then Garcia wouldn't have back peddled as quickly as he did and apologised as profusely. Garcia isn't thick. If he thought it'd be something so offensive he wouldn't have said it in the environment that he did. Of course he's going to apologies once it starts getting blown out of all proportion, he has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 It's offensive if people find it offensive. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8447457.stm Saying that it isn't offensive, or that it shouldn't be offensive doesn't magically make it ok. I find your moderating offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Well how is it racist? It isn't offensive. It isn't saying there is anything bad or wrong with eating it. We sing about Tadanari Lee eating Sushi, what is the difference? It's a matter of context. And you don't understand that context. That's why you don't realise why it is offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 It's a matter of context. And you don't understand that context. That's why you don't realise why it is offensive. Why is it racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Why is it racist? You need to have it explained again? Did you read through the posts in this thread? Historically, white people in the US have used comments and jokes about black people eating lots of fried chicken in a derogatory fashion. They employ the association of blacks with fried chicken as a racial stereotype. It is often (but not always, of course) intended as a slur that is offensive. In that context, it is a racial slur. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 It's offensive if people find it offensive. By that measure most things in the world are offensive. Squirrels for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 You need to have it explained again? Did you read through the posts in this thread? Historically, white people in the US have used comments and jokes about black people eating lots of fried chicken in a derogatory fashion. They employ the association of blacks with fried chicken as a racial stereotype. It is often (but not always, of course) intended as a slur that is offensive. In that context, it is a racial slur. HTH. Why is eating lots of fried chicken a slur? How do you make an offensive joke about eating fried chicken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 the west Indians in London love a bit of perfect fried chicken , or Dixy friend chicken , or southern fried chicken , not so much KFC for some reason , kids at school would go mad for it climbing over the school gate at lunchtime to get a portion of wings and thighs , they'd openly admit it was a family favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Ok, yeah, guess I walked into that. But hiding behind my poor choice of wording doesn't change the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 (edited) Why is eating lots of fried chicken a slur? How do you make an offensive joke about eating fried chicken? How is calling a Pakistani a "Paki" a racist slur, since it's just an abbreviation? Answer: the historical context. Think about it, and then apply a similar reasoning to this situation. Is it racist to throw a banana at a black football player? Why? It's just a piece of fruit. It's a matter of associations in the mind. Edited 23 May, 2013 by Hamilton Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Why is it racist? Generally that question can be applied to most things considered racist, where if you get to the very heart of it it may be an indirect reference at best. Here it is directly referring to the slave trade, which is about as racially offensive as you can get. No excuses - he knew what he was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 How is calling a Pakistani a "Paki" a racist slur, since it's just an abbreviation? Answer: the historical context. Think about it, and then apply a similar reasoning to this situation. Is it racist to throw a banana at a black football player? Why? It's just a piece of fruit. It's a matter of associations in the mind. It's racist to throw a banana at a black player because it is suggesting they are similar to a monkey - no-one wants to me compared to a monkey, so it is offensive. The term "Paki" is offensive because it has often been used in strong and aggressive abuse of people of South Asian origin. What are the Fried chicken jokes that have been told for years that everyone knows are highly offensive which are comparable to the above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 It's racist to throw a banana at a black player because it is suggesting they are similar to a monkey - no-one wants to me compared to a monkey, so it is offensive. The term "Paki" is offensive because it has often been used in strong and aggressive abuse of people of South Asian origin. What are the Fried chicken jokes that have been told for years that everyone knows are highly offensive which are comparable to the above? As I mentioned in post #28, you're not familiar (I'm assuming) with the historical context of how offense has been given and received with the use of this reference to fried chicken. To adapt your own explanation above "reference to fried chicken is offensive because it has often been used in strong and aggressive abuse of people of afro-American origin". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 the west Indians in London love a bit of perfect fried chicken , or Dixy friend chicken , or southern fried chicken , not so much KFC for some reason , kids at school would go mad for it climbing over the school gate at lunchtime to get a portion of wings and thighs , they'd openly admit it was a family favourite. At lunchtime on a Friday we quite often order Jerk chicken from the local Caribbean take away in Reading, lots of the black boys have it, as do the white boys, Is it racist if a white lad does the order that week and asks them If the want it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 As I mentioned in post #28, you're not familiar (I'm assuming) with the historical context of how offense has been given and received with the use of this reference to fried chicken. To adapt your own explanation above "reference to fried chicken is offensive because it has often been used in strong and aggressive abuse of people of afro-American origin". Give me examples? I've seen tons of American tv and films, studied American Civil Rights History, never once seen a derogatory reference in this regard. Suggesting someone would like to eat a certain type of food or shouting at them in an aggressive way "Paki" are completely different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 It's racist to throw a banana at a black player because it is suggesting they are similar to a monkey - no-one wants to me compared to a monkey, so it is offensive. The term "Paki" is offensive because it has often been used in strong and aggressive abuse of people of South Asian origin. What are the Fried chicken jokes that have been told for years that everyone knows are highly offensive which are comparable to the above? Having spent time in "the Deep South" of Tennessee I can safely say that the term is plain and simply racist. Just as you have described the two terms above as being offensive, so is the "fried chicken" insult. It's up there alongside im struggling to understand why some people are struggling with a simple concept. Search the web for the history of the insult, how it's been used and why it is deemed offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Having spent time in "the Deep South" of Tennessee I can safely say that the term is plain and simply racist. Just as you have described the two terms above as being offensive, so is the "fried chicken" insult. It's up there alongside im struggling to understand why some people are struggling with a simple concept. Search the web for the history of the insult, how it's been used and why it is deemed offensive. But no-one is able to explain why it's racist? Fried chicken is very popular with black people in the US is it not? Lots of aspects of current black american culture can trace its roots back to slavery, language, accent, music - does referring to any of these being popular also constitute highly offensive racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Give me examples? I've seen tons of American tv and films, studied American Civil Rights History, never once seen a derogatory reference in this regard. Suggesting someone would like to eat a certain type of food or shouting at them in an aggressive way "Paki" are completely different things. I've made my point several times, in several ways. You don't seem to be willing to accept what I've said. No point in my repeating myself endlessly,eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Because I was born in Somerset many friends and also my wife call me frock wearer, is this racist? Turn it around, if it was Woods instead of Garcia who was ask the same question and Woods brought up Paella would there be the same commotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Because I was born in Somerset many friends and also my wife call me frock wearer, is this racist? Turn it around, if it was Woods instead of Garcia who was ask the same question and Woods brought up Paella would there be the same commotion. One has it's roots squarely in slavery and the other not. I cannot see how people, supposedly intelligent, cannot understand why Woods considered it a racial slur. We may not, I wouldn't, but to many black yanks it is a racial insult. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essruu Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 I wouldn't 't think many black Americans are very bothered about what Garcia said... they're probably more concerned about money, job security and where their next portion of fried chicken is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 I wouldn't 't think many black Americans are very bothered about what Garcia said... they're probably more concerned about money, job security and where their next portion of fried chicken is coming from. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 He's spent a lot of time there and has a lot of American friends. he could easily said pizza/hash browns/burgers/apple pie but he didn't. And apparently a lot of those friends are coloured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSaint Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 Because I was born in Somerset many friends and also my wife call me frock wearer, is this racist? No Turn it around, if it was Woods instead of Garcia who was ask the same question and Woods brought up Paella would there be the same commotion. Probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 May, 2013 Share Posted 23 May, 2013 On the subject of racism I am surprised to see not one polictician or any of the media describe yesterday's events as a racist attack. I'm sure they would have if it was two white blokes on a black bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts