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Formula One in trouble?

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

By CHAPEL END CHARLIE,
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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

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With yet another utterly straight forward win for Sebastian Vettel in the Red Bull today, this driver and team look set to be on their way to a 4th successive joint Driver and Constructors title. The combination of a gifted young driver in the prime of his career, a car conceived by Adrian Newey (clearly the best designer in the business) and Christian Horner's superbly organised team looks unstoppable. Nothing lasts forever of course, but I see no reason why this situation should not continue for years to come frankly.

 

Now I actually warm to Seb far more than I ever did to similarly dominant Michael Schumacher, and Red Bull are a admirable (British based) team who deserve everything they get. But the dismal failure of the rest of the grid to come close to matching them is now starting to seriously reduce the sport as a competitive spectacle in my view. I understand the crowd in Singapore actually booed Vettel on the podium today.

 

So unless the other teams can find a way of breaking this Red Bull/Vettel domination of the sport PDQ methinks the sport will have to start thinking about introducing a handicapping system as other forms of motorsport have - or watch both its TV ratings, and income, disappear up its own exhaust pipe.

 

Or do you disagree?

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

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I've become thoroughly bored of watching it this season. I could happily watch Vettel win every race if it was close and he had to fight hard for it, but the way he just scampers off into the distance every time now is just depressing and dull to watch. Really can't be bothered with it any more.

 

The only saving grace for the sport on the whole that I can see is there are some big regulation changes for next season (1.6 litre V6 turbocharged engines instead of the current 2.4 litre V8, and an enhanced energy recovery system), and the varying degrees to which the teams adapt to these should shake things up a bit. When Maclaren designed this year's car they did it with half an eye on these new rules for next season so they should be a lot more competitive at least.

 

I'm done for 2013. Really don't care how the rest of the season pans out because the title is already Vettel's barring an injury that stops him from racing. I'll tune in for the first few races of next season and see if it is any better, and if normal service is resumed then I'll quit watching it for good I reckon.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

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With yet another utterly straight forward win for Sebastian Vettel in the Red Bull today, this driver and team look set to be on their way to a 4th successive joint Driver and Constructors title. The combination of a gifted young driver in the prime of his career, a car conceived by Adrian Newey (clearly the best designer in the business) and Christian Horner's superbly organised team looks unstoppable. Nothing lasts forever of course, but I see no reason why this situation should not continue for years to come frankly.

 

Now I actually warm to Seb far more than I ever did to similarly dominant Michael Schumacher, and Red Bull are a admirable (British based) team who deserve everything they get. But the dismal failure of the rest of the grid to come close to matching them is now starting to seriously reduce the sport as a competitive spectacle in my view. I understand the crowd in Singapore actually booed Vettel on the podium today.

 

So unless the other teams can find a way of breaking this Red Bull/Vettel domination of the sport PDQ methinks the sport will have to start thinking about introducing a handicapping system as other forms of motorsport have - or watch both its TV ratings, and income, disappear up its own exhaust pipe.

 

Or do you disagree?

 

People said the same when Schumacher was dominating and at times he was more dominant than Vettel is now. He won the 2002 Championship at the equivalent of now (with 6 races to go) although IMO the Ferrari was further ahead of the field then than the Red Bull is now (plus the FIA being Ferrari's International Assistance in those days and all of that)

 

I think Vettel dominance won't lose as much of the audience as Schumacher's dominance did because it'll be interesting to see if he breaks Schumacher's records. At the end of the day it's up to the rival teams to catch up and a handicap system won't be viable long term. Also Vettel's had his moments but he also hasn't gone to the ridiculous lengths Schumacher did at times, like when Schuey turned the entire 2002 Austrian GP into a complete farce.

 

Another aspect is that KERS/DRS produces a lot more overtaking meaning the races will be generally more entertaining than they were in Schuey's day. Bernie won't be too worried yet.

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The9

The9

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I've completely stopped watching, a gradual slide since Hamilton's title win, not impeded by the sporadic BBC coverage.

 

I've been to a race abroad and everything, but I'm not remotely interested any more. The cars are too uniform, the races now have to have artificial measures to aid overtaking, it's not interesting to watch (other than Monaco, which in itself is a non-overtaking procession but at least there's scenery) and I'm disengaging with the drivers as well, so I've got no reason to go back and see how various people are doing because I don't care about the participants either.

Edited by The9
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The9

The9

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My F1 watching over the past 3 years has involved setting a series link to record, then, sometimes weeks after the actual race, eventually getting around to watching the recording, paying attention to the first 2-3 laps before doing something else with it on in the background and not even registering when Vettel has won.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

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Agreed. Was an avid F1 fan, even until as recently as 2 years ago, but last year and especially this year have gone off the boil for me. I have watched 1 race this season and decided it was boring and too technical - I don't want to have to keep count of who has pitted when and what tyres they've had, I just want racing!!

 

Moving to Sky was also a bad move as they broke up what was actually a fairly good format on the BBC.

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hutch

hutch

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I think the whole world gave up on F1 as an exciting sport the day Coulthard was appointed commentator. How can anybody stay awake listening to him drone on and on and on about what he did 15 years ago and how good Di Resta is?

 

At the end of the day it's days are numbered, 'elf an safety will stifle all of the competitive edge.

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ant

ant

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I've completely stopped watching, a gradual slide since Hamilton's title win, not impeded by the sporadic BBC coverage.

 

Exactly the same for me.

 

The most I watch of it these days is the 7 or 8 minutes of race highlights the BBC put up on their website.

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JoeShmoe

JoeShmoe

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Adrian Newey is god in F1 and yet again he's managed to get immense downforce at the back of the car even with the blown diffusers banned. The effect of this requires a different driving style (counter-intuitive Gary Anderson called it last year) wherby when the car oversteers you apply more power (instead of lifting/opposite lock) and the car grips again. Vettel's skill is that he has adapted to this (as opposed to Webber) and a lot of the other drivers

 

So you have a perfect storm, led mostly by Newey

 

The sad thing is, is that even with the changes next year, Newey is SO far ahead of his peers in terms of making a car fast that given time RBR will again be the quickest package

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Saint137

Saint137

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Hoping next year will shake things up but there is a danger of it suffering from Seb syndrome as did WRC (Loeb's dominance of that championship and the complete lack of star talent and manufacturer support has killed it as a spectacle)

 

Not having all the races on BBC and having a bunch of dull circuits means I CBA with it except for the classic tracks. This year I've only watched Monaco, Silverstone, Spa, Monza, and Australia, absolutely no interest in Singapore, India, Korea, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain etc. Sad state of affairs when China and Malaysia are relatively exciting races.

 

To a certain extent F1 has always had dominant teams and drivers but at least there were better circuits and unreliability to spice it up. Used to be fairly common for half the field not to finish, now mechanical failures are far too rare.

 

Another vote for Moto GP here (and Moto 2/Moto 3 - they're well worth watching on the red button)

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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Is Formula One in trouble? In the UK possibly. Going to a pay TV viewing format for half the races is damaging, couple that with the results almost being a foregone conclusion when it is on terrestrial and the spectacle has been highly diminished.

 

In other parts of the world though the sport is continuing to thrive. Vettel is a hero to many, many fans, Ferrari continue to be a huge draw and as shown before, domination has never prevented the sport's popularity in the past (McLaren in the 80's, Williams in the Early/Mid 90's, Schumacher between 2000-2005.)

 

I still love the sport and the technical aspect of it has always fascinated/inspired me. Coupled with there being a still fascinating struggle behind the Red Bulls to see who can attack them (which has admittedly petered out as the teams concentrate on next year's cars and new technical regulations) then I still find things to enjoy.

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

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Yet another Sebastian Vettel bore-fest in Korea today. But that's not the biggest concern. It's the Pirelli tyres they are using this year that has had such a negative effect on the spectacle.

 

For the last 20 laps you had Hulkenberg, Hamilton, Alonso, Button and Rosberg all bunched up fighting for 4th place as a result of two safety cars, but they were all being instructed by their pits to take it easy and keep the tyres cool. So where we should have had a dramatic showdown with these guys using DRS to pass and re-pass each other all the way to the end, we had a completely dull procession instead.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

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Yet another Sebastian Vettel bore-fest in Korea today. But that's not the biggest concern. It's the Pirelli tyres they are using this year that has had such a negative effect on the spectacle.

 

For the last 20 laps you had Hulkenberg, Hamilton, Alonso, Button and Rosberg all bunched up fighting for 4th place as a result of two safety cars, but they were all being instructed by their pits to take it easy and keep the tyres cool. So where we should have had a dramatic showdown with these guys using DRS to pass and re-pass each other all the way to the end, we had a completely dull procession instead.

 

I think it was more to do with Hulkenburg having superior traction out of the slow corners meaning Hamilton couldn't get close enough. I actually thought the midfield race was highly entertaining, especially when they sent a fire truck out for them to race.

 

It's up to the rest of the field to catch up with Vettel, at the moment him and Adrian Newey are simply too good.

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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

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There was some mildly entertaining jousting going on for the minor placings again yesterday. But as for genuine competition for the win, Korea was (yet another) complete non event as far as I'm concerned. This race was effectively over at the first corner - if not before.

 

Yes I agree, Formula One has indeed gone through periods like this before - and I dare say the sport will survive to see better racing return again one fine day. That knowledge however just doesn't make todays F1 borefest much more easy to bare unfortunately.

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24428367

 

Lewis Hamilton: Sebastian Vettel dominance could bore fans

 

Britain's former world champion Lewis Hamilton says he fears Formula 1 fans will lose interest in the sport because Sebastian Vettel is so dominant.

 

Vettel, 26, is on the brink of a fourth consecutive world championship after winning the Korean Grand Prix.

 

Hamilton said he did not watch races when Michael Schumacher dominated.

 

"I remember waking up to watch the start of the race then going to sleep and waking up when it ended because I knew what would happen," said Hamilton.

 

"I am pretty sure a lot of people are doing that today."

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Marsdinho

Marsdinho

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I've completely stopped watching, a gradual slide since Hamilton's title win, not impeded by the sporadic BBC coverage.

 

I've been to a race abroad and everything, but I'm not remotely interested any more. The cars are too uniform, the races now have to have artificial measures to aid overtaking, it's not interesting to watch (other than Monaco, which in itself is a non-overtaking procession but at least there's scenery) and I'm disengaging with the drivers as well, so I've got no reason to go back and see how various people are doing because I don't care about the participants either.

 

This...

 

My F1 watching over the past 3 years has involved setting a series link to record, then, sometimes weeks after the actual race, eventually getting around to watching the recording, paying attention to the first 2-3 laps before doing something else with it on in the background and not even registering when Vettel has won.

 

and this...

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Wrensup

Wrensup

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Have the trouble is the way the team run there finances. What I mean is that when a constructor seems to not be doing all that well or a decent sized points gap as emerged in the table, instead of trying to catch up or at least try to reign in on the team/driver above them, they'd rather pull all funding/development of this current seasons car and in my eyes pretty much give up and have the mentality oh we'll try again and try next year.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

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So unless the other teams can find a way of breaking this Red Bull/Vettel domination of the sport PDQ methinks the sport will have to start thinking about introducing a handicapping system as other forms of motorsport have - or watch both its TV ratings, and income, disappear up its own exhaust pipe.

 

I think this is precisely what F1 needs to avoid at all costs.

 

It's the handicapping systems that's helped turned the BTCC into a joke in the last 10 years. Success ballast doesn't make it any less predictable as it just means the previous winner will be running round in about 5th or 6th the next race holding up a procession of cars. Reverse grids or partially reversed grids mean that some drivers will only achieve success because of a massive advantage, and in the BTCC its led to driving standards plummeting. Every other "overtake" results in the driver behind driving into the car in front and punting it aside/into a spin. It looks incredibly amateurish.

 

F1 needs to be as pure as possible, although I did agree that DRS/KERS had to be introduced. The aerodynamic instability which made overtaking impossible was detrimental to the racing. When Schumacher was dominating they were talking about sprinklers being randomly activated and each driver having to drive every car in the field (The Schumacher in a Minardi idea) and these ideas were thrown out for good reasons.

 

Vettel is where he's at because how good he is and how good Newey is. There'll come a time where he will start struggling and the competition will liven up again. Besides whoever wins each race is not the be all and end all of why I watch F1.

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Ponty

Ponty

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I hope so. He'd be a solid replacement for Kimi. Eddie Jordan seems to think Hulk is off to Force India though. He also reckons Maldonado and Williams are parting company and Lotus could use that sponsorship money he carries around.

 

We'll see in a few weeks, no doubt.

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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

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I think this is precisely what F1 needs to avoid at all costs.

 

It's the handicapping systems that's helped turned the BTCC into a joke in the last 10 years. Success ballast doesn't make it any less predictable as it just means the previous winner will be running round in about 5th or 6th the next race holding up a procession of cars. Reverse grids or partially reversed grids mean that some drivers will only achieve success because of a massive advantage, and in the BTCC its led to driving standards plummeting. Every other "overtake" results in the driver behind driving into the car in front and punting it aside/into a spin. It looks incredibly amateurish.

 

F1 needs to be as pure as possible, although I did agree that DRS/KERS had to be introduced. The aerodynamic instability which made overtaking impossible was detrimental to the racing. When Schumacher was dominating they were talking about sprinklers being randomly activated and each driver having to drive every car in the field (The Schumacher in a Minardi idea) and these ideas were thrown out for good reasons.

 

Vettel is where he's at because how good he is and how good Newey is. There'll come a time where he will start struggling and the competition will liven up again. Besides whoever wins each race is not the be all and end all of why I watch F1.

 

 

I can see where you are coming from, but surely the true purpose of motorsport is not to see how fast we can make a race car go around a race track. No, it seems to me that Formula One is a branch of 'show biz' - IE it exists in order to entertain those who choose to follow it ... oh and to sell stuff to those same fans of course.

 

We can all snootily look down our collective noses at 'blue collar' motorsport formula such as the BTCC and criticize their lack of "purity". But I can assure you that many younger motorsport fans I personally know have given up on F1 but are still keen enthusiasts of lesser forms of motorsport precisely because of their unpredictability, close racing and wealth of incident compared to the sterile and overly academic fare on offer from F1.

 

I've just seen the (typically dull) Indian GP and - my congratulations to Red Bull and Vettal aside - how fitting it is that this season should effectively end with another 'whimper' of a race rather than the 'bang' that might have done at least something to install a sense of enthusiasm for next season. I can recall when it was announced a while ago that the BBC would lose the rights to screen every F1 race live how annoyed I was back then because I used to love this sport so very much.

 

Now however I could hardly care less to be brutally frank about it.

Edited by CHAPEL END CHARLIE
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JackFrost

JackFrost

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I can see where you are coming from, but surely the true purpose of motorsport is not to see how fast we can make a race car go around a race track. No, it seems to me that Formula One is a branch of 'show biz' - IE it exists in order to entertain those who choose to follow it ... oh and to sell stuff to those same fans of course.

 

We can all snootily look down our collective noses at 'blue collar' motorsport formula such as the BTCC and criticize their lack of "purity". But I can assure you that many younger motorsport fans I personally know have given up on F1 but are still keen enthusiasts of lesser forms of motorsport precisely because of their unpredictability, close racing and wealth of incident compared to the sterile and overly academic fare on offer from F1.

 

I've just seen the (typically dull) Indian GP and - my congratulations to Red Bull and Vettal aside - how fitting it is that this season should effectively end with another 'whimper' of a race rather than the 'bang' that might have done at least something to install a sense of enthusiasm for next season. I can recall when it was announced a while ago that the BBC would lose the rights to screen every F1 race live how annoyed I was back then because I used to love this sport so very much.

 

Now however I could hardly care less to be brutally frank about it.

 

But to me that is the entire point of Formula 1.

 

I suppose it depends how much of a 'purist' one is but I don't tune in to Formula 1 for the sole purpose of on track action. Partly yes but top-level motorsport is far from being just about on track battles and overtaking. I can find the strategic side of it just as interesting.

 

I still tune into the Le Mans 24 hours and there's a lot less overtaking for position in that than Formula 1.

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