Saint Charlie Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 So, he will be back then. Villa maybe? Can't really fault any of what he says, and like or loathe him - he did a brilliant job and we are worse off for him leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 "It is about perception," says Cortese. "It is about what people see every day when they come to work. Is the road wiped? Is it clean? Or do they have to walk through mud or a construction site? Interesting quote - possible slip suggesting a disagreement with the owners about the training ground? He talks me through the final few days of his time in charge of Southampton. When had he known that the time had come to walk away? "Christmas," he says. "I knew at Christmas time." What was happening with construction around december time, was that when work had stopped or was that ages ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 arse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Personally, I believe if he were still at the helm our first team squad and coaching team wouldnt be on the verge of disintegration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Personally, I believe if he were still at the helm our first team squad and coaching team wouldnt be on the verge of disintegration Disintegration is a strong word but otherwise I agree, the only person I think we could possibly lose is Shaw and I would have no doubt about the rest staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Reading the article really made me miss Cortese, what a c*nt but his vision was clear, Was it that clear? What was his vision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Personally, I believe if he were still at the helm our first team squad and coaching team wouldnt be on the verge of disintegration Agree, the way he stopped Arsenal from buying Chamberlain was outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Agree, the way he stopped Arsenal from buying Chamberlain was outstanding. You do realise he wanted to go and we got an outstanding deal for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Was it that clear? What was his vision? Spending some elses fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Agree, the way he stopped Arsenal from buying Chamberlain was outstanding. Yeah, £15m for an 18yo who has only played in L1 and wanted to go and play CL football, not npc football was a really sh1tty deal. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish fingers Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 You do realise he wanted to go and we got an outstanding deal for him? and 27m+ for a 18 year old with only 50 games under his belt isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 You do realise he wanted to go and we got an outstanding deal for him? So what's the difference if the "new mob" sell Lallana and Shaw who, by all accounts, want to go?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 So what's the difference if the "new mob" sell Lallana and Shaw who, by all accounts, want to go?? Because they wouldn't want to go if given assurances that we were still looking to progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Yeah, £15m for an 18yo who has only played in L1 and wanted to go and play CL football, not npc football was a really sh1tty deal. :-/ It's a great deal, but it's still flogging our young players - no different to what MIGHT happen to Lallana and Shaw etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 So at what point would you sell Lallana? What would be you "legitimate case" to our players that we are a better option than Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal etc? Lallana is at a key stage in his career - its now or never. We offer guaranteed first team football in a side with top 6 aspirations and the opportunity to learn without fear of failure. The alternative is to go down the Rodwell, Sinclair, even Oxo route and risk stagnation by missing out on regular football. The irony with Shaw is that Man U are not his preferred choice - they are attractive because they are currently weaker than Man City and Chelsea and can offer first-team football. Of course, if Shaw wanted to go his preferred team -Chelsea- it would be easier with Southampton than Man U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Because they wouldn't want to go if given assurances that we were still looking to progress. Why didn't Cortese give Chambo these magic assurances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Spending some elses fortune. In the article he ackonwledges that we would never financially compete with the big teams and talks about looking at alternatives and focusing on detail and gaining advantages over small margins. I think we've spent inline with our Prem club our size, not sure how it's all about him spending someone elses money. He didn't need to focus on creating a playing identity and ensuring the academy pathway is clear but he did and those formed part of the vision for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 It's a great deal, but it's still flogging our young players - no different to what MIGHT happen to Lallana and Shaw etc. Its fundamentally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Spending some elses fortune. its what all chairmen do, isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Why didn't Cortese give Chambo these magic assurances? He probably did and he still wanted to go. Everyone is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 We should also bear in mind that this reasonable façade and fair comment is being done whilst also leaking a load of destabilising rumours to the press according to journalists. That puts a different complexion on matters. sweet. so these rumours about lallana and shaw leaving are just rumours nothing to worry about then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaptopSaint Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 So what's the difference if the "new mob" sell Lallana and Shaw who, by all accounts, want to go?? The difference is weren't in the Premier League or anywhere near it when Oxo wanted to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Its fundamentally different. We didn't have to sell Chamberlain, we choose to. Different situation but same thing fundamentally. If a player wants to go, and someone bigger comes in for him we will usually sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 its what all chairmen do, isnt it? Not every chairman wants sole control of spending someone elses money, walks off in a strop when told no and then goes around distabilsing the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Why didn't Cortese give Chambo these magic assurances? NPC or champions league for every chambo, there is a shaw, lallana, morgan, j-rod, gaston (alright, a bit rubbish), osvlado, lambert, clyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Not every chairman wants sole control of spending someone elses money, walks off in a strop when told no and then goes around distabilsing the club. where did it say or does say that he wanted/wants sole control? where did this version of events get documented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 NPC or champions league for every chambo, there is a shaw, lallana, morgan, j-rod, gaston (alright, a bit rubbish), osvlado, lambert, clyne The only thing getting or keeping good players is Leibherr's money, if that's dried up it doesn't matter who's chairman - good players will leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 sweet. so these rumours about lallana and shaw leaving are just rumours nothing to worry about then The barrage of rumours about virtually our entire first team leaving on a daily basis that have been released by cortese and the PR company are obviously not all true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 The barrage of rumours about virtually our entire first team leaving on a daily basis that have been released by cortese and the PR company are obviously not all true. so, morgan, shaw and lallana are not looking to move/are going to move? like the way to say what is a FACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 so, morgan, shaw and lallana are not looking to move/are going to move? like the way to say what is a FACT Think you have misunderstood my original post. Some may leave but it is the deliberately leaking destabilising stories to the press that is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 (edited) Comparing Cortese to Krueger and Gareth Rogers in terms of their interviews and general comments, understanding and abilities is quite scary. Edited 21 May, 2014 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Lallana is at a key stage in his career - its now or never. We offer guaranteed first team football in a side with top 6 aspirations and the opportunity to learn without fear of failure. The alternative is to go down the Rodwell, Sinclair, even Oxo route and risk stagnation by missing out on regular football. The irony with Shaw is that Man U are not his preferred choice - they are attractive because they are currently weaker than Man City and Chelsea and can offer first-team football. Of course, if Shaw wanted to go his preferred team -Chelsea- it would be easier with Southampton than Man U. But Shaw might want CL qualification and league winning ambition and not be worried about fear of failure. You agree it makes sense for Lallana to want to kick on now if he so chooses. So what do you want done differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Great interview by the Don and speaks 100% sense. Why bring young players thourgh to sell them??swallow your pride kitty kat amd bring him back eerrrrrrrrrrr Oxo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Our new board is all fart and no sh1t, it'll become apparent soon if it hasn't already. Players aren't exactly enamoured by our new "mid-table" ambitions and who can blame them. Very annoying, just when we'd got a squad and a first 16 or so who could genuinely, genuinely compete. Cortese is right, they bought his vision and he was going to build on that. Yes, KL's money but we really do now have people in charge who are setting us up for a lot of disappointment - but they do write nice letters, tbf Can you point me to the statement where the new board states it's new plan is mid table? becuase I must have missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 But Shaw might want CL qualification and league winning ambition and not be worried about fear of failure. You agree it makes sense for Lallana to want to kick on now if he so chooses. So what do you want done differently? Shaw might; but he has time on his side and his choices will only expand as long as he is with us. Worse comes to worse, he moves the following season. With Poch around, there is very little downside and only upside. Could we keep Lallana if we brought in 3 players. Quite possibly, though it would be harder. What I do know is without ambition, all this is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 "I am trying to catch up with those things. Some things I will never catch up on, but my children and my wife are happy to have me back" - Oh, what a hero "The question for us was not if we could win the Premier League but how" - I often wonder "how", still can't see an answer apart from £150m to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Well I am not so sure that his oddly timed outing to the press is that helpful to Southampton fc. Latest headline in the Echo is "Nicola Cortese: I would have kept this Saints side together had I stayed at St Mary's" Well done Nicola, that's what we need now. Must give you a warm glow but what about every one else? [Or is it as I have always thought,that its not about any one else]? Also I cant help thinking that it is quite easy to sell an expansive vision, but should he have been peddling that if he wasn't certain he could have the means to fulfill it. After all he was selling the dream based on some one elses money. There seems something rather poor to me that a person should build up players hopes with a vision that they obviously would buy into to then slide away when he felt it couldn't happen and then to subtly blame the very person that was funding " his dream" I would have respected him if he had stayed around to fight his corner but of course that would not have been the easy option. Finally let me say to give some balance, I do feel Cortese did a good job while he was in place, certainly in Manager recruitment and I a sure other areas but his latest foray into the press does nothing to allay my thoughts about him as not having our clubs over all best interests ahead of his own. Great post. Sadly I don't think it was just the players that bought into the dream but quite a few posters on here to........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I was a big fan of Cortese but I just don't buy that the players wouldn't have left if he was still here. The only reason players didn't want to leave under Cortese is that he successfully bull****ted them into thinking we could afford a champions league push. It's clear he wasn't going to be able to bull**** them any more, as this summer is the point he'd have been found out as having invented it without the financial backing to carry it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokingFun Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 In the article he ackonwledges that we would never financially compete with the big teams and talks about looking at alternatives and focusing on detail and gaining advantages over small margins. I think we've spent inline with our Prem club our size, not sure how it's all about him spending someone elses money. He didn't need to focus on creating a playing identity and ensuring the academy pathway is clear but he did and those formed part of the vision for the future. I think the problem is that whilst accepting that we cannot compete with the biggest teams financially and concentrating on small gains, the sum of those small gains on the pitch is never going to bridge the huge gap required between them and a club of our size to make it into the Champions League. This is where Cortese's 'vision' fails dramatically. After all, people have largely accepted this season as being our best ever in the Premier League yet we are still a monstrous 23 points behind the 4th placed team. Do we believe that we could bridge that gap over the next couple of seasons by keeping all of our players and spending £30m per season? It is a lovely idea but is pure fantasy. Spurs lost their best player and spent £100m and didn't achieve it despite buying some players considered very good at the time of purchase. Who is to say we can spend better than them? At some point players like Shaw and Lallana would realise that the 'vision' is more of a dream and an unlikely reality so would go if they want to play for a club capable of challenging for premier league and european titles. Nicola Cortese can speak all he likes about trying to win the Premier League and making the Champions League as a by-product of that 'shoot for the stars' mentality but the reality is very different and I suspect he realised that and probably asked the owners to fund something more than was viable from operating a sustainable business model. Make no mistake, the only way a club of our size makes the Champions League or wins the Premier League is if the owner wants to splash sums of say £200-500m, maybe more, to have a tilt at it. Small gains on or off the pitch will never be enough to make it happen. Only serious money that the owner is willing to lose will and rarely is that available for a club of our stature. Personally, if players want to go then sell them for top dollar and reinvest that money in the playing squad by buying quality and not quantity. Keep producing the quality through the academy, it makes sense to do so. But lets be realistic and not believe Cortese when he says all players would have stayed had he been at the club. He would have had no say in that if the owner wanted to sell players and to be honest bar getting top dollar if the player wants to go he has little say either when a big club comes calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 The barrage of rumours about virtually our entire first team leaving on a daily basis that have been released by cortese and the PR company are obviously not all true. which ones are true and not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 which ones are true and not? If we sell 9 players this summer then I will accept that all the reports are true and that none have been planted with the frequency they have been to destabilise the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 (edited) Interesting that there is a contradiction between NCs comment that the previous (original) 'Project' finished in April 2012,achieving promotion to the Premier League and a new one put in place; and Poch's comments about awaiting board comment about the new 'Project', suggesting the board have something else in mind. Edited 21 May, 2014 by Kingsland Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Because its a sensible business model! If you can keep developing talent and then selling them for huge fees, reinvest a little allowing the new seedlings to develop, the club continues to grow and become profitable. Or would you rather Lallana, Shaw and Lambert stayed until they retired, so blocking the progress of the development squad. They have to fly the nest when they are ready to fly. We have younger mouths to feed. Wow, horsesh*t post of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 If we sell 9 players this summer then I will accept that all the reports are true and that none have been planted with the frequency they have been to destabilise the club. which ones are true and which are not nearly all clubs (infact, ALL clubs) will have rumours linking their players to other clubs which ones has NC made up to mess with the club. List them seeing as you are so sure? Shaw? Lallana? Morgan? CHambers? maybe jrod to Spurs? is it that crazy that our best players are linked with moves away? isnt that how it works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Yeah, £15m for an 18yo who has only played in L1 and wanted to go and play CL football, not npc football was a really sh1tty deal. :-/ I'll never celebrate the sale of decent players no matter how much we get for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Interesting that there is a contradiction between NCs comment that the previous (original) 'Project' finished in April 2012,achieving promotion to the Premier League and a new one put in place; and Poch's comments about await comment about the new 'Project', suggesting the board have something else in mind. I was going to post something similar and then realised it's not really a contradiction and there's nothing in it.. "It's up to the board to discuss with me the new project that will be in place for next season," Pochettino told BBC South Today."It's not up to me to decide when those talks will happen." Of course the new board would have something else in mind, maybe it involves taking the foundations of NC's plans and tweaking it slightly, maybe it involves following NC's ideas verbatim... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 which ones are true and which are not nearly all clubs (infact, ALL clubs) will have rumours linking their players to other clubs which ones has NC made up to mess with the club. List them seeing as you are so sure? Shaw? Lallana? Morgan? CHambers? maybe jrod to Spurs? is it that crazy that our best players are linked with moves away? isnt that how it works? Batman, just to be clear, are you saying you don't believe that any of the recent Saints articles, Neil Ashton pieces have been influenced by NC's PR contacts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I think the problem is that whilst accepting that we cannot compete with the biggest teams financially and concentrating on small gains, the sum of those small gains on the pitch is never going to bridge the huge gap required between them and a club of our size to make it into the Champions League. This is where Cortese's 'vision' fails dramatically. After all, people have largely accepted this season as being our best ever in the Premier League yet we are still a monstrous 23 points behind the 4th placed team. Do we believe that we could bridge that gap over the next couple of seasons by keeping all of our players and spending £30m per season? It is a lovely idea but is pure fantasy. Spurs lost their best player and spent £100m and didn't achieve it despite buying some players considered very good at the time of purchase. Who is to say we can spend better than them? At some point players like Shaw and Lallana would realise that the 'vision' is more of a dream and an unlikely reality so would go if they want to play for a club capable of challenging for premier league and european titles. Nicola Cortese can speak all he likes about trying to win the Premier League and making the Champions League as a by-product of that 'shoot for the stars' mentality but the reality is very different and I suspect he realised that and probably asked the owners to fund something more than was viable from operating a sustainable business model. Make no mistake, the only way a club of our size makes the Champions League or wins the Premier League is if the owner wants to splash sums of say £200-500m, maybe more, to have a tilt at it. Small gains on or off the pitch will never be enough to make it happen. Only serious money that the owner is willing to lose will and rarely is that available for a club of our stature. Personally, if players want to go then sell them for top dollar and reinvest that money in the playing squad by buying quality and not quantity. Keep producing the quality through the academy, it makes sense to do so. But lets be realistic and not believe Cortese when he says all players would have stayed had he been at the club. He would have had no say in that if the owner wanted to sell players and to be honest bar getting top dollar if the player wants to go he has little say either when a big club comes calling. Yet despite all of that we have some how ended up with at least 4-5 players by my count who would be wanted by Champions League sides today where he haven't had to spend anywhere near the sums you are mentioning. We have obviously been doing plenty right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Batman, just to be clear, are you saying you don't believe that any of the recent Saints articles, Neil Ashton pieces have been influenced by NC's PR contacts? I have on open mind. Just want to hear what stories Hypo is certain and as a fact are made up by NC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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