Adam Lallana and Luke Shaw sales; Good or bad?

[Saint TJ]

We have individual threads for these kinds of things but now that the dust has settled a bit I figured I'd try and gauge everyone's opinion on the whole. Adam Lallana has all but gone and we know for how much (£25 million approx.) it's just a matter of its finality now. Luke Shaw went for £27-31 million dependant on add ons. I read an article on V2 which summarised for me the main points, good and bad. I have to say I do agree with it broadly, that we gained a great deal from the sales, but I think it's more of a bad thing then a good thing. Perhaps not in tangible or intangible economic terms, or in specific player quality (dependent on who we sign) but in the solidification of our image once more as a selling club and the fact that a great deal of players will now simply view the club as a stepping stone to higher success. I think, through the law of unintended consequences, we have really broken the most positive thing about this club in years; that we're up and comers, that the skies the limit and we really could be one of the first clubs outside of the traditional set to break for European football in the Premier League era. We've destroyed that image with this. Though I will gladly eat my words if we do go and sign some truly world class players. But anyway, what's everyone else's views on this? Overall good or bad? As I said, for me the sales are good at an individual level, bad as a whole.

 

The article (skip to the bottom for the Southampton section, though the whole thing is pretty interesting): http://v2journal.com/22/post/2014/06/luke-shaw-and-adam-lallana-transfers-winners-andlosers.html

[melmacian_saint]

Good money, but bad for all parties (including Saints).

[SaintBobby]

Good prices. Hope we re-spend it well though.

 

V easy to waste £100m in football.

[Killers Knee]

£30m for someone NOT as good as Clyne, not a bad bit of business.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

You simply can't conclude anything until we see how the money is spent.

[Baird of the land]

Mainly bad. Selling shaw so early is an especially bad sign in relation to any other good academy player we bring through.

If shaw's as good as seems the money isn't great because someone else gets advantage of having superstar left back for next 15 years. Don't think lallana money meets how excellent he has been especially when take account of fact we lose 25% to another club.

[Dellman]

Bad, mad and sad

[david in sweden]

We've had Adam at the club for 12 years. As a teenager he was promising but wasn't the world's best, but really came good after we went up from L1. His pefromances in the last year or so have been great. But at 26, it's good money AND he's going to have to start over with a new club. Of course he'll show up well playing with Rickie Lambert, but we'll see just how good Liverpool are WITHOUT Suarez.

 

Luke Shaw!Wonderkid ? or...but let no-one think that it's just going to be like changing a wheel on the Man.U vehicle. They too are undergoing a massive overhaul, and Luke will have to find his place. ManU will want to get back to Euro football, but few people were impressed by MU players at the World Cup and he may not be the only new face having to fit in MU's brand new back line.

For a fee around £30 million - it's seems like a no-brainer for a kid with barely 60 games behind him. The sale of the century ....or a giveaway?. We'll need to wait 2-3 years to find that out.

 

(We might as well mention Schneiderlin and Lovren, as well. Morgan has given us good service, and finally got his French cap.(well done)... but he has his own ambition and I for one wouldn't deny him that.

I think Lovren was talking to Spurs last season.?... before agreeing to come to us, but he was always Pochettino's man - as will look to join him at Spuds..

 

BOTTOM LINE is ....if they're not happy. Let them go but (as Les Reed said) the price won't be cheap. That goes for Osvaldo, Ramirez .....and anyone else with itchy feet.

Ronald Koeman will have (almost) unlimited funds and if he buys wisely, it'll be a whole new-look and maybe even that Euro place in a season.....or two.

Edited 30 June, 2014 by david in sweden

[NickG]

I think the term "selling club" is a lazy meaningless label. It counts for nothing.

 

There are personal circumstances effecting whether players want to move but generally players go to the highest level they can, whether it is Ronaldo leaving united, Bale leaving Spurs, Rooney Everton, Van Persie Arsenal, Shaw leaving us.

 

What is unusual is we have a team where several players could play at higher level at the same time.

 

Its hard for us to jump a couple of levels (to match their ability) as we can't recruit players willing to make up squad numbers, sharing first team football without champions league. I So far champions league sides (let's accept its pretty unlikely Shaw will get Champions league football during his stay)are the problem.

 

The sales will be bad if the money is badly spent, however the prices look very good. Our problem maybe attracting top players not affording them.

 

For example if departures stay at Shaw, Lambert and Lallana. With the money we could buy;

Classie

Tadic

Left back from Nice

Left back linked to in Scotland

Danny ings

Pelle

Centre back from Holland been linked with 3

 

Much better squad and in profit (maybe).

 

Also, top youngsters will see Shaw as a reason to come here.

[trousers]

I have no idea whether its good or bad. Yet. Ask me again at Christmas.

 

[Saint Charlie]

Good for the players and especially good for Manchester United who have bought the English young player with the most potential.

 

For Saints it has to be bad, especially when combined with other departures.

 

Its not just the quality we lose, but two academy players. We will only have Chambers and JWP left from the Academy who are genuine first team quality, so can no longer boast of the Academy setting us apart.

[Saints foreva]

The Shaw deal is good. Potentially £30m for a LB who isn't that great at attacking? Yes please.

 

Lallana deal opens the door for others to leave though. Fully expecting MS and DL to join leave once his move to Liverpool is confirmed.

[alpine_saint]

Past caring now.

[SaintRobbie]

Good money, both players not worth the fees.

 

Very bad for the club. Irreplaceable and leading to more (arguably more important) players leaving due to clear lack of ambition.

 

Overall? Bad result.

[Hatch]

12 months ago, that would have been brilliant business

 

Now, not so sure.

 

12 months forward, both Liverpool and Man Utd in about 7th and 8th. Saints in 4th. Two fingers!

[Super_Uwe]

I suppose this is the way it is always going to be for us. If we are going to keep producing young talent then it is probably no good for them if they have established England internationals stuck in their way hindering their development. Maybe it means we're unlikely to have any true "heroes" playing for us for years and years, but I can't honestly say I feel bad that we get one or two great seasons out of players and let them move on to bigger things. Perhaps this is the only way we will ever build the financial foundations to become a "big" club on the European stage?

 

I think what really grates with me is that there is so much talk about youth development, the England team etc, and all these wonderful ideas put forward by Danny Mills and co. Well, we've been doing all these things for years and years! What the hell are the likes of Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea etc doing? Nothing, because all they need to do is wave their cheque book and buy whoever they want, whenever they want.

[holepuncture]

Past caring now.

 

Im with Alpine on this one. Good luck to all these players, I hope they take the full opportunity to use SFC as a stepping stone to further their careers, we meaningless supporters may even be lucky enough to see them play once or twice before they leave for bigger and better things!

[Window Cleaner]

You simply can't conclude anything until we see how the money is spent.

 

 

Or if indeed it is all spent...well directly on the team anyway and not frittered away on peripheral items, like LED floodlights which aren't directly team related.

[Wes Tender]

Generally it is a good thing if we replace them with players as good or better for less money which goes towards other players to strengthen other positions.

 

That caveat has to be added, of course, and any other conclusions for or against have no validity without it.

 

The situation regarding the likes of Shaw and Lallana are purely hypothetical anyway, as although they shone in a team comprising other players that they developed with during a period of several years, that situation does not exist now, as they will be playing alongside other players whose style and character they might not meld with.

 

On the face of it, it ought to be eminently possible to replace the two of them with a whole host of alternatives. I would place Schneiderlin as more difficult to replace than any other player, so we really do need to say that he is not for sale, or for a minimum of £30 million. On paper, Pelle ought to be an improvement on Lambert and Dusan Tadic appears to be a good potential replacement for Lallana.

 

Let's get one thing straight; there are very few clubs who are not selling clubs. That includes Liverpool and Manchester United. The fact that they covet players of ours proves that we have produced players of a quality that is good enough to play for them and they may or may not prove to be astute purchases for them, in much the same way that their replacements may prove to be improvements or failures for us.

 

What is clear though, is that those who talk about fire sales, impending relegations, the end of the World, etc, really are very immature to hold such unbalanced knee-jerk opinions.

[alpine_saint]

If that were true, you wouldn't be here.

 

I'm past caring about the greedy self-centred tw*ts leaving us, not SFC...

[jjsaint]

Individually good. Very bad when taken as a whole. We've lost our manager and three of our best players with others sure to follow.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm past caring about the greedy self-centred tw*ts leaving us, not SFC...

 

What about the ones joining?

[Hodgey]

In the short term it is certainly a bad thing, in the longer term it is probably a bad thing. We will have lost our 5 best players and we will not be able to replace them with similar ability (as if they do have that ability they will be off to a bigger club), also they are going to need to bed in / adjust top new league etc etc. It could be OK for the longer term but it requires a lot of things going our way. Let's assume we buy in 6 players and complement that with youth players - firstly there will almost certainly be a couple of duds in those signings, no club ever always buys well. Secondly we are relying on players such as JWP, Target, Reed, Stephens, McQueen etc to make huge progress when it is much more likely they will not make it statistically speaking. That said financially we will be better off having paid off debts etc and can get closer to FFP.

Personally I think after this we would have done remarkably well if we finish in the 10-15 bracket next year and stay out of relegation problems, and the target after then needs to be to move up a couple of places each year until you hit c 7th - when we begin this circle again, or hope some football rules change to favour us. What would be nice whatever happens is if we actually try and win one of the cups - as that is certainly achievable and something which would actually pay back supporters their faith. Call me old fashioned but I prefer the idea of sport being about winning things.

[aintforever]

Getting what we did for Shaw is good business but selling Lambert and Lallana bad.

[saint1977]

In the short term it is certainly a bad thing, in the longer term it is probably a bad thing. We will have lost our 5 best players and we will not be able to replace them with similar ability (as if they do have that ability they will be off to a bigger club), also they are going to need to bed in / adjust top new league etc etc. It could be OK for the longer term but it requires a lot of things going our way. Let's assume we buy in 6 players and complement that with youth players - firstly there will almost certainly be a couple of duds in those signings, no club ever always buys well. Secondly we are relying on players such as JWP, Target, Reed, Stephens, McQueen etc to make huge progress when it is much more likely they will not make it statistically speaking. That said financially we will be better off having paid off debts etc and can get closer to FFP.

Personally I think after this we would have done remarkably well if we finish in the 10-15 bracket next year and stay out of relegation problems, and the target after then needs to be to move up a couple of places each year until you hit c 7th - when we begin this circle again, or hope some football rules change to favour us. What would be nice whatever happens is if we actually try and win one of the cups - as that is certainly achievable and something which would actually pay back supporters their faith. Call me old fashioned but I prefer the idea of sport being about winning things.

 

I agree broadly and certainly would like to see Koeman making more progress in the Cups than MP or Adkins did although suspect club policy at the time was to focus solely on the league. Shaw replacement isn't going to be of the same quality because I think he's already showing signs of being the world top 5 for his position but Lallana is replaceable. Fine player certainly and has served SFC well, however part of his value came from being local, part of the academy, PR etc so once his interest in playing for us waned and his attitude changes post-England call ups, that side of his value diminished. No reason why Tadic or someone similar couldn't have a similar impact plus Adam wouldn't have had the link up with Rickie any longer if he'd stayed (which must make Rodgers all the more grateful to have bought Rickie in light of Dracula-gate).

 

Morgan would reduce the quality of our midfield overall but it is a strong department already and if Lovren goes we could buy two CBs and not need to use Jos.

[hasper57saint]

I'm past caring about the greedy self-centred tw*ts leaving us, not SFC...

As they say in the House of Commons Alps 'Haar Yaah'