SarniaSaint Posted 18 May, 2015 Share Posted 18 May, 2015 'kin 'ell.... I don't mean the specifics. I mean a culture and set of laws that make this kind of thing a regular inevitability. Are you this angry all of the time? I'm just glad I live in a place where a brawl is unlikely to result in much more than a broken nose, rather than being shot dead on the pavement. No I am not angry with anyone..............and this was more than what you brits think of as a brawl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 18 May, 2015 Share Posted 18 May, 2015 It should be enouranged then? Or just accepted? Accepted I guess........but not encouraged......... just the same as inter drug gang thing that you don't know about in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 18 May, 2015 Share Posted 18 May, 2015 If I was ever to leave Blighty, continental North America would be the last place on my list of options. You joining ISIS .................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 18 May, 2015 Share Posted 18 May, 2015 Whatever it was, it's resulted in a shoot-out in the middle of a public place in the middle of the day, ending up with 9 dead. It's a f*cking ridiculous thing to happen. But the laws there, and the fact that there are more guns than there are people, it's always going to happen. But accepting that that kind of thing can just happen, risking lives of passers-by, members of the public, police, it's just madness. Life shouldn't be so cheap in such a developed country. It shouldn't still be the Wild West. Surely you can see that gun crime in America is ridiculously out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 18 May, 2015 Share Posted 18 May, 2015 Whatever it was, it's resulted in a shoot-out in the middle of a public place in the middle of the day, ending up with 9 dead. It's a f*cking ridiculous thing to happen. But the laws there, and the fact that there are more guns than there are people, it's always going to happen. But accepting that that kind of thing can just happen, risking lives of passers-by, members of the public, police, it's just madness. Life shouldn't be so cheap in such a developed country. It shouldn't still be the Wild West. Surely you can see that gun crime in America is ridiculously out of control. Actually it is not ridiculously out of control..........gun crime has been going down for the last 20 years...........most is now in the drug trade where the gang bangers fight for turf.............and guess what that is in places like Ferguson, Baltimore. etc..............I can tell you a few stories about Camden NJ.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 18 May, 2015 Share Posted 18 May, 2015 Just because it's going down doesn't mean it's not a problem. The law is the problem, it's fundamentally f*cked. But no worries, we'll just sit around and wait for the next weirdo to go and shoot up a school. UK - roughly 60 gun murders per year USA - roughly 11000 gun murders per year. All because of some massively outdated 'constitutional right'. The UK isn't without its problems, obviously. But this thread is about what is wrong with America. In my opinion, having people legally wandering about with a weapon designed for killing people is plain stupid. And then there's locking up 2,000,000 people and having whole communities relying on people being locked up in those prisons, but that's another argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 Just spent a week in the states in Texas. Had a chat about gun control with a few colleagues there. They are utterly convinced that someone someday with break into their house armed and willing to shoot them. They all had pictures of their guns on their phones, like surrogate kids. I am am absolutely sure that Texas will cede membership of the Union before giving up their guns. that said, I went shooting at a range, and it was a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 Who is dumb as f*ck ?? the bikers?? the restaurant?? or the cops for getting it right?? I await some stupid answer from you........... How many dead is the cops getting it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 If I was ever to leave Blighty, continental North America would be the last place on my list of options. Canada is a great place to live and work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 (edited) I am strongly for much greater gun control in the US. As from a couple of weeks ago, even I have a gun in my house that is not legal or registered to me! It should simply not be so easy for that to happen. It came here when my brother in law started having marriage problems, and he felt safer with it away from his weirdo wife. A sensible move, and luckily there is no ammo with it as I am a big kid who loves to play with these kind of things. Imagine if an actual child lived here. Although I don't want to own one, I do find them cool, and would enjoy them in a secure range with proper security. Edited 19 May, 2015 by Ohio Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 Just because it's going down doesn't mean it's not a problem. The law is the problem, it's fundamentally f*cked. But no worries, we'll just sit around and wait for the next weirdo to go and shoot up a school. UK - roughly 60 gun murders per year USA - roughly 11000 gun murders per year. All because of some massively outdated 'constitutional right'. The UK isn't without its problems, obviously. But this thread is about what is wrong with America. In my opinion, having people legally wandering about with a weapon designed for killing people is plain stupid. And then there's locking up 2,000,000 people and having whole communities relying on people being locked up in those prisons, but that's another argument. #1 It aint the law it is in the constitution.......you know that thing that tells you your rights.........sorry you brits don't have one #2 So just tell me why it is outdated ???........ #3 You must be talking about North Korea...........there aint 2 mill in jail ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 Canada is a great place to live and work. Yes it is I was in Port Huron MI today and guess what just like being in Sarnia ON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 #1 It aint the law it is in the constitution.......you know that thing that tells you your rights.........sorry you brits don't have one #2 So just tell me why it is outdated ???........ #3 You must be talking about North Korea...........there aint 2 mill in jail ........ Erm yes there is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 I am strongly for much greater gun control in the US. As from a couple of weeks ago, even I have a gun in my house that is not legal or registered to me! It should simply not be so easy for that to happen. It came here when my brother in law started having marriage problems, and he felt safer with it away from his weirdo wife. A sensible move, and luckily there is no ammo with it as I am a big kid who loves to play with these kind of things. Imagine if an actual child lived here. Although I don't want to own one, I do find them cool, and would enjoy them in a secure range with proper security. Careful...... you will upset the sensitive ones ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 Erm yes there is... is what?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 19 May, 2015 Share Posted 19 May, 2015 #1 It aint the law it is in the constitution.......you know that thing that tells you your rights.........sorry you brits don't have one #2 So just tell me why it is outdated ???........ #3 You must be talking about North Korea...........there aint 2 mill in jail ........ Sorry, just under 2,200,000. I'll make sure I'm more accurate with my research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 20 May, 2015 Share Posted 20 May, 2015 Sorry, just under 2,200,000. I'll make sure I'm more accurate with my research. This makes prison the fifth largest city in the United States, just edged out of fourth by Houston, Texas. Staggering. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population Lucky the Waco spree shooters weren't black, otherwise Houston would have lost a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 20 May, 2015 Share Posted 20 May, 2015 (edited) #1 It aint the law it is in the constitution.......you know that thing that tells you your rights......sorry you brits don't have one. The constitution says NOTHING about civilians carrying concealed firearms, nor does it say you can keep them to defend your property from burglars. What it does say is that the population have the right to keep and bear arms such that they can, when necessary, form an organised militia. It is the LAW, depending on which State you are in, that governs the right to own and carry firearms, and how you might do so. This wording for the 2nd Amendment was based on the English Bill of Rights, 1689, which includes the text "That the Subjects which are Protestants may have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law" Edited 20 May, 2015 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 20 May, 2015 Share Posted 20 May, 2015 Sorry, just under 2,200,000. I'll make sure I'm more accurate with my research. Interesting - its common knowledge here that their economy is somewhat reliant on a huge prison population. I wonder how many actually realise that over there, or even that it is a perception by the rest of the world. I'll text my mates in the US and ask the question.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 20 May, 2015 Share Posted 20 May, 2015 America http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3086950/The-mugshots-170-biker-gang-members-arrested-Waco-Texas-shootout-killed-nine-judge-orders-suspect-held-1million-bond.html Britain http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-32800365 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 20 May, 2015 Share Posted 20 May, 2015 Careful...... you will upset the sensitive ones ............. If by sensitive ones you mean those who hate it when kids shoot themselves or other kids when loaded guns go off, when innocent people are shot by police, when innocent people get caught in gangland crossfire etc etc.....yes it will upset us sensitive souls because we hate the pathetic waste of human life that guns cause on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 20 May, 2015 Share Posted 20 May, 2015 #1 It aint the law it is in the constitution.......you know that thing that tells you your rights.........sorry you brits don't have one #2 So just tell me why it is outdated ???........ #3 You must be talking about North Korea...........there aint 2 mill in jail ........ 1) The Constitution is law... it's the highest form of law in the US. 2) in terms of conferring rights, what you're actually thinking of is the Bill of Rights which is just one part of the Constitution (a set of 10 amendments). The Constitution covers a much broader set of subject matter. 3) You don't live in the US, so not sure why you think the US constitution gives you any more rights than the rest of us 4) Human rights are enshrined in law in the UK through the Human Rights Act... not including the right to bear arms though... how terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 I just stumbled upon this, on Facebook, and thought it was relevant: "TO ARGUE WITH A PERSON WHO HAS RENOUNCED THE USE OF REASON IS LIKE ADMINISTERING MEDICINE TO THE DEAD." Thomas Paine, English-American political activist, writer and revolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Sorry, just under 2,200,000. I'll make sure I'm more accurate with my research. and just where did you research ??..........you got to realize that includes peeps who have not been convicted of any crime...... maybe overnite for traffic offenses, public mischief or whatever. youre dis-ingenious use of this so called statistic to imply there a 2 mil criminals in jail is f*cking pathetic............but I guess if it helps youre smug little Britain attitude that's OK with me .......cause I really don't give a f*ck what you think HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 This makes prison the fifth largest city in the United States, just edged out of fourth by Houston, Texas. Staggering. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population Lucky the Waco spree shooters weren't black, otherwise Houston would have lost a place. there you go again .......so you didn't like the fact that ....... No blacks involved No one ran away No media storm to feed you brits about discrimination '''''''''''' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 The constitution says NOTHING about civilians carrying concealed firearms, nor does it say you can keep them to defend your property from burglars. What it does say is that the population have the right to keep and bear arms such that they can, when necessary, form an organised militia. It is the LAW, depending on which State you are in, that governs the right to own and carry firearms, and how you might do so. This wording for the 2nd Amendment was based on the English Bill of Rights, 1689, which includes the text "That the Subjects which are Protestants may have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law" So No Arms for Catholics in the UK........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Interesting - its common knowledge here that their economy is somewhat reliant on a huge prison population. I wonder how many actually realise that over there, or even that it is a perception by the rest of the world. I'll text my mates in the US and ask the question.. Common knowledge in the UK !!!.......... WOW how do you know that???................go on tell me.....I await your answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 1) The Constitution is law... it's the highest form of law in the US. 2) in terms of conferring rights, what you're actually thinking of is the Bill of Rights which is just one part of the Constitution (a set of 10 amendments). The Constitution covers a much broader set of subject matter. 3) You don't live in the US, so not sure why you think the US constitution gives you any more rights than the rest of us 4) Human rights are enshrined in law in the UK through the Human Rights Act... not including the right to bear arms though... how terrible. I never said it gave me more rights.............but please don't lump Canada with the rest of you ...............cause we aint ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 If by sensitive ones you mean those who hate it when kids shoot themselves or other kids when loaded guns go off, when innocent people are shot by police, when innocent people get caught in gangland crossfire etc etc.....yes it will upset us sensitive souls because we hate the pathetic waste of human life that guns cause on a daily basis. that applies every where in the world ........yes even in the UK .............just takes different forms of waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 I just stumbled upon this, on Facebook, and thought it was relevant: "TO ARGUE WITH A PERSON WHO HAS RENOUNCED THE USE OF REASON IS LIKE ADMINISTERING MEDICINE TO THE DEAD." Thomas Paine, English-American political activist, writer and revolutionary. Interesting way of saying " if you don't agree with me you are wrong "............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 and just where did you research ??..........you got to realize that includes peeps who have not been convicted of any crime...... maybe overnite for traffic offenses, public mischief or whatever. youre dis-ingenious use of this so called statistic to imply there a 2 mil criminals in jail is f*cking pathetic............but I guess if it helps youre smug little Britain attitude that's OK with me .......cause I really don't give a f*ck what you think HTH Drivel. there you go again .......so you didn't like the fact that ....... No blacks involved No one ran away No media storm to feed you brits about discrimination '''''''''''' Drivel. So No Arms for Catholics in the UK........... Drivel. I never said it gave me more rights.............but please don't lump Canada with the rest of you ...............cause we aint ....... Drivel. that applies every where in the world ........yes even in the UK .............just takes different forms of waste. Drivel. Interesting way of saying " if you don't agree with me you are wrong "...............[emoji38] Drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 that applies every where in the world ........yes even in the UK .............just takes different forms of waste. Well being a helpful type of bloke I'll have another go, but I think you have already been shown now - on numerous occasions - incontrovertible evidence that firearms related death rates in the USA grossly exceed those found in other comparable developed nations. This is a matter of fact that you obviously object to for some reason, but seemingly can't dispute in any meaningful sense. Even if we just take murder rates as a whole, without reference to cause, then the stats are quite clear I think. Study results from UNOCD (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime) 2012 Global Homicide Report (rate per 100,000 inhabitants) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#UNODC.27s_global_study USA = 4.7 Canada = 1.6 Australia - 1.1 France = 1 UK = 1 Germany = 0.8 Japan = 0.3 So the evidence shows that a US citizen is a far more likely to have his or her life cut short by the crime of murder - much of it obviously gun related - than those of other broadly comparable nations. If you can leave your (remarkably silly) line in Anglophobia back in the playground where it belongs for once, and summon up something that resembles a reasonable argument then by all means take this opportunity to do so. While the forum awaits that bombshell, I must add that your ''I NEVER BACK DOWN'' approach to debate would be rather more impressive if you actually had anything to BACK UP whatever mysterious point it is you are trying to get across here ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 (edited) So No Arms for Catholics in the UK........... Put the 1689 Bill of Rights into historical context. You haven't responded to the point about the second amendment and an 'organised militia'. Edited 21 May, 2015 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Stand down everyone. This is clearly not the place for reasoned debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Stand down everyone. This is clearly not the place for reasoned debate. Drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 and just where did you research ??..........you got to realize that includes peeps who have not been convicted of any crime...... maybe overnite for traffic offenses, public mischief or whatever. youre dis-ingenious use of this so called statistic to imply there a 2 mil criminals in jail is f*cking pathetic............but I guess if it helps youre smug little Britain attitude that's OK with me .......cause I really don't give a f*ck what you think HTH How dare he use facts to back up his argument, f*cking pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 How dare he use facts to back up his argument, f*cking pathetic Sarnie doesn't understand facts, to win a debate with him you need this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Still...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Looks to me like this would be solved if Americans stopped committing so many crimes. #nosmokewithoutfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Looks to me like this would be solved if Americans stopped committing so many crimes. #nosmokewithoutfire You'd think so, even without irony. But no. The crime rate in America has been in dramatic decline, just as the city population of Prison, USA, has dramatically risen. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/the-many-causes-of-americas-decline-in-crime/385364/ America is a mass incarcerator on an industrial scale. Everyone in the US I know knows someone in the family or among friends who's been to jail. Mass incarceration began in the early 1990s, just as the prisons became increasingly for-profit - run by large, rather sinister, government-lobbying corporations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Looks to me like this would be solved if Americans stopped committing so many crimes. #nosmokewithoutfire The ones in jail are the jaywalkers. Those guilty of running away arent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 You'd think so, even without irony. But no. The crime rate in America has been in dramatic decline, just as the city population of Prison, USA, has dramatically risen. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/the-many-causes-of-americas-decline-in-crime/385364/ America is a mass incarcerator on an industrial scale. Everyone in the US I know knows someone in the family or among friends who's been to jail. Mass incarceration began in the early 1990s, just as the prisons became increasingly for-profit - run by large, rather sinister, government-lobbying corporations. One of the main reasons Greenpeace and most other civil disobedience NGOs have never taken off in the US in the way they have in Europe is the American police and justice system. Crimes which in Europe would have you asked politely to move on or arrested and fined if you persisted would be dealt with by a baton beating and jail time in the US - relatively innocuous stuff too like blocking a power plant entrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 There is a difference between jail and prison. Minor offenders usually go to jail while multiple and serious offenders go to the butt rape boutique. It would be interesting to see a more in depth breakdown of the stats. If only this forum had a member who just happened to be an American lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 If only this forum had a member who just happened to be an American lawyer. Why would you need that when you can just get hysterical and tell everyone they're wrong, even when presented with evidence to back up their points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 You'd think so, even without irony. But no. The crime rate in America has been in dramatic decline, just as the city population of Prison, USA, has dramatically risen. Then something needs to be done to stop the rot! America is a mass incarcerator on an industrial scale. Everyone in the US I know knows someone in the family or among friends who's been to jail. Mass incarceration began in the early 1990s, just as the prisons became increasingly for-profit - run by large, rather sinister, government-lobbying corporations. No offence but you must have some dodgy mates! I've lived here for 5 years now and I can think of one person I've met who's had a relative / friend been in jail (drug related), and he's out now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 21 May, 2015 Share Posted 21 May, 2015 Drivel. Drivel. Drivel. Drivel. Drivel. Drivel. Your reply is .........well .........absolute Drivel.........cant you at least reply in a half intelligent way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 22 May, 2015 Share Posted 22 May, 2015 It has been estimated, I believe, that about half of the prison population in the U.S. are there for drug offences. And a large proportion (I don't know the figures) are for minor infractions involving marijuana. This is because of the reactionary policies of the "War on Drugs" pursued especially by Republican administrations (it began in earnest during the Reagan years). And the legal system in the U.S. seems to be particularly harsh on Afro-Americans and native people. It's incredibly ironic that there are several States that now have a thriving industry selling marijuana legally, whilst there are people in jail serving long sentences for owning or selling ("trafficking") small amounts of the same stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 22 May, 2015 Share Posted 22 May, 2015 Well being a helpful type of bloke I'll have another go, but I think you have already been shown now - on numerous occasions - incontrovertible evidence that firearms related death rates in the USA grossly exceed those found in other comparable developed nations. This is a matter of fact that you obviously object to for some reason, but seemingly can't dispute in any meaningful sense. Even if we just take murder rates as a whole, without reference to cause, then the stats are quite clear I think. Study results from UNOCD (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime) 2012 Global Homicide Report (rate per 100,000 inhabitants) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#UNODC.27s_global_study USA = 4.7 Canada = 1.6 Australia - 1.1 France = 1 UK = 1 Germany = 0.8 Japan = 0.3 So the evidence shows that a US citizen is a far more likely to have his or her life cut short by the crime of murder - much of it obviously gun related - than those of other broadly comparable nations. If you can leave your (remarkably silly) line in Anglophobia back in the playground where it belongs for once, and summon up something that resembles a reasonable argument then by all means take this opportunity to do so. While the forum awaits that bombshell, I must add that your ''I NEVER BACK DOWN'' approach to debate would be rather more impressive if you actually had anything to BACK UP whatever mysterious point it is you are trying to get across here ... Not to sure what it is you are trying to say with that reply................. I get that you are afraid of guns .........but to call all firearm deaths murder is just another sensational statement from you that has no credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now