angelman Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Perhaps it will, perhaps it won't. However what would be quite annoying if he does sign there is that we seem to have tried to cheapskate it and got our ass kicked. Seems? How do you get to that? You, I and most others have no idea what has been going on behind closed doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Mostly likely outcome- he signs for Spurs. We will continue to grumble about the agreement we are convinced that Atleti have broken and will end up with some compensation further down the line or there may be some form of sanction for them eventually, all whilst Toby is happily playing Premier League football at Spurs. If the player wants to go to Spurs there is little we can do, regardless of any contractual dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I wonder why we were not over there ensuring such a bargain would go through. I'm not a 'big business' negotiator but I'd imagine we were playing the "keep a low profile so that we don't alert AM that we're desperate to sign him" card in the knowledge that AM didn't have the 2 millions euros at their disposal to buy out the contract. The only way the "bargain would go through" is if we didn't shout about it from the rooftops. IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Can anybody provide a comparison of our league results with toby playing/not playing last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 There's the principal of it all, one club can't shaft another and think they can get away with it, we're not little old Southampton anymore and if we have a contract with another club they will have to fulfill their obligations. There's probably a number of ways this can go, they pay the compensation we're owed and we go away and let Toby be a spurs player. We try and get a specific performance order to force through the contract that was signed, in effect pay the 6.8m and Toby is our player or there is a load of mess and no one knows what will happen. Do we own the player registration though? As The9 was pointing out, he is legally our player now, can we stop him going anywhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 There's the principal of it all, one club can't shaft another and think they can get away with it, we're not little old Southampton anymore and if we have a contract with another club they will have to fulfill their obligations. There's probably a number of ways this can go, they pay the compensation we're owed and we go away and let Toby be a spurs player. We try and get a specific performance order to force through the contract that was signed, in effect pay the 6.8m and Toby is our player or there is a load of mess and no one knows what will happen. Do we own the player registration though? As The9 was pointing out, he is legally our player now, can we stop him going anywhere else? How can he legally be our player if no fee has been paid. Speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 As I mentioned earlier, had we gone for the "offer to pay £12m several weeks ago" approach, you'd have had people on here after the event saying we'd "got our ass kicked" for blinking too soon when we could have waited and got him for £6.9m.... I would say it's a bit more than that. If what we read about the contract is true, then Saints would not be in any position to make an "open" offer to match Spurs bid. To do so would severely prejudice our argument that we already have a "legally binding" contract. So I'm not really surprised that the Spurs bid is the only one on the table. Any "counter offer" from us would be in "without prejudice" negotiations to settle the dispute with Madrid, hence Les travelling. All supposing the reported contract situation is broadly correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 It would seem to me that atletico couldn't afford the buyout clause which meant the only way they could get maximum from him was to sell him to spurs then pay us the money otherwise they were stuck with receiving 6.8m from us and that's it. Athletico being greedy. Not sure why we should just go to them with more money when we had an agreement in place, who cares how much he's worth, his value increased because he played for us. I hope we stick to our guns and rinse athletico and maybe spurs for all they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landford.saint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I an not ITK I have not seen the SFC/AM contract. However, neither has Turkish, Pap, Trousers, Uncle Tom Cobbley, or So called journalists. It is pretty certain that Spuds have not seen the contract. And I am guessing the only time Toby saw it is when he signed it.. Therefore all we have to go on is reports in the Press who are being fed by people with an agenda. Or press with no @@@@ing idea what is going on. Also a large number of cyber warriors, who have even less idea of what is going on that the bull**** led Press. So to sum up no one knows anything apart from SFC lawyers, AM lawyers, Tobies agents lawyers. Everyone else knows llareggub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I an not ITK I have not seen the SFC/AM contract. However, neither has Turkish, Pap, Trousers, Uncle Tom Cobbley, or So called journalists. It is pretty certain that Spuds have not seen the contract. And I am guessing the only time Toby saw it is when he signed it.. Therefore all we have to go on is reports in the Press who are being fed by people with an agenda. Or press with no @@@@ing idea what is going on. Also a large number of cyber warriors, who have even less idea of what is going on that the bull**** led Press. So to sum up no one knows anything apart from SFC lawyers, AM lawyers, Tobies agents lawyers. Everyone else knows llareggub. Tobies? How many of them are we signing? That's the problem with these multi-players deals, very complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 How can he legally be our player if no fee has been paid. Speculation. Maybe he's our player pending our payment, either way if the deadline has lapsed we have the right to make that payment and make him our player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Wealthy club with dubious business activities and bully tactics beats club who conducts business honourably in a business transaction that involves a breach of contract terms. This is a microcosm of what happens up and down the country and to the greater extent the world in business every day, the whole system is rigged unfairly, unless you are the guys at the very top of the pile looking down. As ever it will end the same way as usual with Spurs stiffing us, they will have the backing of the FA and the greater football body even if we go to court, how dare a team like saints challenge against Spurs for a player. It also seems these establishments job is not to actually adjudicate but rather to make sure that any perceived dodgyness in football is swept under the rug sharpish. We all know the whole thing is corrupt, greedy and broken, thats how they like it and thats how they made it, even with FBI investigations its becoming apparent that there is fark all anyone can do about it. One thing we can be sure of is that a lot of these loan agreements and clauses may be considered worthless bits of paper depending on the outcome of any legal battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I an not ITK I have not seen the SFC/AM contract. However, neither has Turkish, Pap, Trousers, Uncle Tom Cobbley, or So called journalists. It is pretty certain that Spuds have not seen the contract. And I am guessing the only time Toby saw it is when he signed it.. Therefore all we have to go on is reports in the Press who are being fed by people with an agenda. Or press with no @@@@ing idea what is going on. Also a large number of cyber warriors, who have even less idea of what is going on that the bull**** led Press. So to sum up no one knows anything apart from SFC lawyers, AM lawyers, Tobies agents lawyers. Everyone else knows llareggub. But you appear to know that you don't know anything (except how to make a possessive) so really you know more than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landford.saint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Tobies? How many of them are we signing? That's the problem with these multi-players deals, very complicated. I am a simple poorly educated farmers son. Un-schooled in the complexities of, grammar, syntax, spellings, etc. please accept the humble apologies of someone who is the product of England's education system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Well this has gone to **** hasn't it. I'll be gutted if he signs for spurs. Both Liverpool and Spurs are ****ing me right off. It's almost as if they're both trolling us on purpose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintsteve7 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Just seen on Twitter that Steven Davis signed for us 3 years ago today. Seem to remember a legal dispute involved in that transfer as well? We believed we could sign him for free but ended up having to pay Rangers a fee to avoid legal action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I an not ITK I have not seen the SFC/AM contract. However, neither has Turkish, Pap, Trousers, Uncle Tom Cobbley, or So called journalists. It is pretty certain that Spuds have not seen the contract. And I am guessing the only time Toby saw it is when he signed it.. Therefore all we have to go on is reports in the Press who are being fed by people with an agenda. Or press with no @@@@ing idea what is going on. Also a large number of cyber warriors, who have even less idea of what is going on that the bull**** led Press. So to sum up no one knows anything apart from SFC lawyers, AM lawyers, Tobies agents lawyers. Everyone else knows llareggub. All totally correct of course. So, are you therefore suggesting that we shouldn't try and hypothesis what might have happened? It looks like I may have misinterpreted what an internet football forum is all about. It's only taken me 38,368 posts to work it out. Hey ho, you live and learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Just seen on Twitter that Steven Davis signed for us 3 years ago today. Seem to remember a legal dispute involved in that transfer as well? We believed we could sign him for free but ended up having to pay Rangers a fee to avoid legal action? True. But if they had refused to negotiate we could have gone ahead without the agreement and seen what the court system decided. Perhaps the same process will happen here, the difference is that rangers had no way to retain Davis whereas we still want Toby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Your response sounds insulting, but I actually don't understand what it is supposed to mean. My response wasn't intended to offend Redslo, although I can see how my sarcasm may. It simply is that my experience of dealing with North Americans is utterly typified by your general behaviour and demeanour. Have you ever read the book 'The Miracle of Castel di Sangro?' An excellent book written by the late Joe McGinness and the level of self righteous indignation and idealism he displays at the book's end go hand in hand with your feelings towards this situation. All naively focused on the contractual details rather then the human element which is part of life. On that basis I did find what you posted amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 My response wasn't intended to offend Redslo, although I can see how my sarcasm may. It simply is that my experience of dealing with North Americans is utterly typified by your general behaviour and demeanour. Have you ever read the book 'The Miracle of Castel di Sangro?' An excellent book written by the late Joe McGinness and the level of self righteous indignation and idealism he displays at the book's end go hand in hand with your feelings towards this situation. All focused on the contractual details rather then the human variation. Thank you for that explanation although now I will have to go back and read what I said again. However, I will say that I am not particularly self-righteous, I just happen to always be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I really want Saints Exec to give Spurs a bloody nose over this transfer - it represents more than just the capture of a player that wants to be here and did a great job for us. However, unless Toby is true to his word and a rare loyal honourable player, he will go wherever the money shouts loudest and that will be Spurs unfortunately. Who knows, perhaps the deal is just about to be done - let's hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Thank you for that explanation although now I will have to go back and read what I said again. However, I will say that I am not particularly self-righteous, I just happen to always be right. Very good son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Wealthy club with dubious business activities and bully tactics beats club who conducts business honourably in a business transaction that involves a breach of contract terms. This is a microcosm of what happens up and down the country and to the greater extent the world in business every day, the whole system is rigged unfairly, unless you are the guys at the very top of the pile looking down. As ever it will end the same way as usual with Spurs stiffing us, they will have the backing of the FA and the greater football body even if we go to court, how dare a team like saints challenge against Spurs for a player. It also seems these establishments job is not to actually adjudicate but rather to make sure that any perceived dodgyness in football is swept under the rug sharpish. We all know the whole thing is corrupt, greedy and broken, thats how they like it and thats how they made it, even with FBI investigations its becoming apparent that there is fark all anyone can do about it. One thing we can be sure of is that a lot of these loan agreements and clauses may be considered worthless bits of paper depending on the outcome of any legal battle. I hate Spuds as much (possibly more) than the next man, but in this case they have seemingly done nothing wrong. If they "stiff us" its because we will have been "stiffed" by Atletico and our own attempts to ensure a deal can be completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landford.saint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Second guessing is one thing, and you are totally correct, exactly what Internet forums are about. However, I am not accusing you, I was just using your name as an example of a well known user on this site, however, We do have a number of people on this site who troll, using the trolls of others as the evidence for their trolls, etc. This thread alone has bore witness to that. I was just saying that most of what we know comes from the ramblings of people who know nothing of what has gone on, trolls who feed off trolls, and bed wetter so who jump at any piece of news as if it's a nugget of impeachable truth. Let us please all second guess, and ruminate on the intricacies of all things Saints. But please don't go off on 10 pages of depressive ********, based on the utterances of a bull****ting troll. Last post of day I'm afraid. Spent my last £5 on season ticket. (Please don't start the I am better than you because I have a ST crap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I an not ITK I have not seen the SFC/AM contract. However, neither has Turkish, Pap, Trousers, Uncle Tom Cobbley, or So called journalists. It is pretty certain that Spuds have not seen the contract. And I am guessing the only time Toby saw it is when he signed it.. Therefore all we have to go on is reports in the Press who are being fed by people with an agenda. Or press with no @@@@ing idea what is going on. Also a large number of cyber warriors, who have even less idea of what is going on that the bull**** led Press. So to sum up no one knows anything apart from SFC lawyers, AM lawyers, Tobies agents lawyers. Everyone else knows llareggub. Far too sensible and reasonable for here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I am a simple poorly educated farmers son. Un-schooled in the complexities of, grammar, syntax, spellings, etc. please accept the humble apologies of someone who is the product of England's education system. I accept your apology. I am the son of a humble dock worker. I attended a comprehensive school of very questionable quality. However, I still know where to put an apostrophe. I'm not sure your excuse is a valid one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'00' Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 SSN reporting he will sign for Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 SSN reporting he will sign for Saints. Are they actually saying that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Perhaps it will, perhaps it won't. However what would be quite annoying if he does sign there is that we seem to have tried to cheapskate it and got our ass kicked. It'd be phenomenally poor if we let him go to Spurs for £11mill, after he made it clear he's happy to stay here. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at the moment that we'll end up getting him for £6mill and mug off Athletico and Spurs in the process but if it doesn't happen it's a huge f#ck up by Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Whoa! Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 SSN reporting he will sign for Saints. I've got it on, and they never said anything of the sort? Unless I've gone deaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Are they actually saying that? Not that I can immediately see. Anyone have a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 It'd be phenomenally poor if we let him go to Spurs for £11mill, after he made it clear he's happy to stay here. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at the moment that we'll end up getting him for £6mill and mug off Athletico and Spurs in the process but if it doesn't happen it's a huge f#ck up by Saints. If we are willing to match the terms offered by Spurs (to player and club) then it is a bit risky playing this game - an opportunity presented itself to get Toby to half price due to negligence from Atletico but it will really draw out the affair and could backfire. A calculated risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 SSN reporting he will sign for Saints. Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Can anybody provide a comparison of our league results with toby playing/not playing last season? 43 points in 26 games with = 1.65 ppg 17 points in 12 games without = 1.41 ppg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'00' Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Under premiership news running at bottom of screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Funny. Not on their website and you'd think that would be big news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Under premiership news running at bottom of screen. That's no news. It's just that we ''expect'' to sign him due to the agreement, not that we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 SSN reporting he will sign for Saints. Under premiership news running at bottom of screen. What is the exact wording they are using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 43 points in 26 games with = 1.65 ppg 17 points in 12 games without = 1.41 ppg Where is Man Utd away included in those figures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I think this is now a big test of Saints management - are we prepared to seek an injunction and go to court - or will we just cave in? This is typical Spurs behaviour of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'00' Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 What is the exact wording they are using? Sky sources believe etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block34 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 from Twitter... Adam Blackmore @bigadamsport 1m1 minute ago Just to add to last night's #saintsfc Toby story - reports saying Saints have sent over a delegation to Madrid are wide of the mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 SSN reporting he will sign for Saints. Sky sources believe etc If they are using "expect" then that is different from "he will sign". That's no news. It's just that we ''expect'' to sign him due to the agreement, not that we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I look at things more calmly than others. Unlike Shankly, i do not see football being more important than life or death. If he comes, he comes. If he goes, he goes, we get someone else in and move on. The main reason I want to sign him, even above his ability, is to **** off Spurs. But I realise where we are in the pecking order, and I realise where Spurs are. Unless football changes and the league becomes a level playing field, I really can't get over excited about the league. Don't get me wrong, I love Saints and love them to do well and very much enjoyed the last few seasons, but the way a handful of clubs can waltz in and steam roll us, rather shows that there is a problem. Sure that has always been the case, but it is getting ever more pronounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 from Twitter... Adam Blackmore @bigadamsport 1m1 minute ago Just to add to last night's #saintsfc Toby story - reports saying Saints have sent over a delegation to Madrid are wide of the mark Well that goes against Monk's reports... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Well that goes against Monk's reports... No one knows what's going on..!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Well that goes against Monk's reports... Smoke and mirrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Where is Man Utd away included in those figures? I included them in the points with. But I take your point it could easily argued that 40 in 36 games with takes it down to 1.53 pppg 20 in 12 games without takes it to 1.66 ppg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts