Saint-Armstrong Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Any ideas who it was who put about the information on here last summer that in order to conduct an international loan to buy you have to negotiate the permanent deal and complete all the documentation prior to the loan? As I can imagine that's relevant at this point. Wasn't it the Frank Lampard loan to MCFC from NYCFC that brought all of that to light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 If Madrid can ignore a contract after a deal can we give Spurs the money back for Bale and say we've changed our minds and he belongs to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Spurs fans are generally very confident that he will be their player. They cannot comprehend why he would chose saints over spurs. fair enough but Koeman saying he has spoken to him etc his just him keeping us fans sweet and there is no way we will get him IF we do, I wonder what their reaction will be on the fighting cocks forum I don't know why you keep trying to make this about Spurs over Saints or vice versa, it's all about legal enforcement and Atletico's desperation to get money in, the player's choice hardly comes into it. If the contract with Saints is no longer valid from the break clause, he's probably signing for whoever Atletico tells him to, especially if their preferred option gets him better personal terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Wasn't it the Frank Lampard loan to MCFC from NYCFC that brought all of that to light? No idea, but sounds as likely as anything and any other information on the subject would be useful at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 If Madrid can ignore a contract after a deal can we give Spurs the money back for Bale and say we've changed our minds and he belongs to us? This is why I have doubts that the refusal to adhere to our unbroken contract will be difficult to uphold, it undermines the whole premise of contractual law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I don't know why you keep trying to make this about Spurs over Saints or vice versa, it's all about legal enforcement and Atletico's desperation to get money in, the player's choice hardly comes into it. If the contract with Saints is no longer valid from the break clause, he's probably signing for whoever Atletico tells him to, especially if their preferred option gets him better personal terms. Nonsense- Toby's decision will ultimately be decisive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Nonsense- Toby's decision will ultimately be decisive. Not if he's got a legally binding contract with Saints it won't. Unless he then decides to agitate for a move immediately - which seems out of character for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Not if he's got a legally binding contract with Saints it won't. Unless he then decides to agitate for a move immediately - which seems out of character for him. he is a saint then. why have they not announced it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Given these legal things take a long time to be sorted, could Toby end up playing for Spurs while it is being resolved or would he likely be suspended from playing until it is resolved? Is there even a precedent for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 he is a saint then. why have they not announced it? There's obviously some re-checking of legal documents going on all around at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Abroad Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Why would he even want to play for Spurs? He'll have to find a new place and London is a big city. This transfer saga will drag on all summer so he'll be forced to find a place quickly and because Spurs players are mean and won't help him he'll wind up settling in Hackney. Then he needs an Oyster Card. He'll mistakenly take the Northern line to Tottenham Court Road and by the time he figures it's a different place he'll be on a Victoria or Picadilly line train with a bunch of Arsenal numpties, they'll harass him and he'll show up to White Hart Lane late and in tears. Just don't bother Toby. Stay here under Big Ron's tender love and care and everything will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 All I know is that my hatred for Tottenham and Levy is increasing by the day, sure I won't be the only one feeling sick if he joins them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Given these legal things take a long time to be sorted' date=' could Toby end up playing for Spurs while it is being resolved or would he likely be suspended from playing until it is resolved? Is there even a precedent for this?[/quote'] He won't be playing for anyone until the validity of his contract is confirmed one way or another. I'm sure there are plenty of examples, I just can't think of any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintTex Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I would say it's a bit more than that. If what we read about the contract is true, then Saints would not be in any position to make an "open" offer to match Spurs bid. To do so would severely prejudice our argument that we already have a "legally binding" contract. So I'm not really surprised that the Spurs bid is the only one on the table. Any "counter offer" from us would be in "without prejudice" negotiations to settle the dispute with Madrid, hence Les travelling. All supposing the reported contract situation is broadly correct. I agree with this in a purely logical legal way. Why counter offer the Spurs offer to AM if legally/contractually the player is already ours? It's a mess and it really isn't Southampton or Spurs fault, Athletico Madrid screwed the pooch. Are we to believe they couldn't pay the 1.5m without selling Toby first? That isn't our problem. No one forced them to agree to the terms of the loan deal signed last summer. In a way, I can respect Spurs position and try to push through the signing as quickly as possible. The more entangled legally they are with Toby, the better their chances of keeping him are. I don't think Les or Ralph have really done anything wrong here. What were their options? Try to outbid the Spurs before the buy-out clause was cancelled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Not sure what happens if AM refuse our 6.8M to make Toby ours as surely he is ours once that payment has gone through and we've taken up our right to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc1976 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 All I know is that my hatred for Tottenham and Levy is increasing by the day, sure I won't be the only one feeling sick if he joins them. With you on that one. Vile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Not if he's got a legally binding contract with Saints it won't. Unless he then decides to agitate for a move immediately - which seems out of character for him. You also suggested if the contract with us is no longer valid, he'll (probably) go wherever he's told to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I detest Spurs with every living pore. Never done us any favours whatsoever, not to mention the arrogant (talk like we're a big, top 4 club) mentality and general tw*tness of a significant part of their fan base. Stitched us thanks to that equally arrogant idiot Lowe with Tommy Forecast, wrote off Bale's sell on clause as part of that (unbelievable stupidity and naivety even when desperate), pinched our head scout, pinched MoPo the disingenuous lego head, made a derisory offer for Morgan so we believe and I know they think they're bigger and more attractive (in their heads) club and it's the way they go about their business which bugs me most. Way they were trying to tap up Jay Rod and countless others but Liverpool and the England set-up allegedly do that. Numerous more factors but I truly detest Spurs, always like vultures, picking off a carcass only we are far from dying, we are going from strength to strength, we are looking to surpass them and we have a strong squad which they openly show they want to destabilise and grind down, less competition. That's sport. No issue with competition but I just hate the way they go about it. Esp. Levy who has sniffed around and seen this legal issue and attempted to fly out to Spain to hijack the deal to weaken us and strengthen them. I absolutely hope he comes unstuck, trigger happy, helm(et) of the cocky cockney muppets! Wonder if Toby will sign purely as Spuds seem to think they're so attractive and stable purely based on playing alongside a team mate? Who knows. A fairly weak brag. Maybe there is the attraction of London (although Seven sisters is hardly Nirvana but St Mary's isn't Mecca either!) but he loved his time with us and we are certainly a more attractive club if you are a sentient, level headed being. Who knows?! Football has imploded. Look at Stirling. Money has sabotaged the game. Let's hope this gets resolved quickly, for everyone's sake. In the mean time, Jordi Clasie please. Then I won't feel so sad for losing Morgan. Fully agree with everything you said! Cabaye or Clasie or both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Here is hoping that Toby tells them he wont sign yet until he knows the Southampton situation. Then Spurs can pretend he 'failed his medical' today to keep their dignity. This then gives Les and Ralph time to go bust some balls in Spain and get a middle ground of some sort reached. No court case, AM makes some cash, Toby signs for us by Thursday, joins up with the team in Austria and doesn't have to worry about changing his twitter picture, Harry Kane then gets his transfer to a big club and everyone is happy. We get into Champs league after winning the European cup, Tottenham sack Pocchetino shortly before getting relegated at the hands of Bournemouth, and Liverpool buy Toby and Jay Rod off us for 30M each next summer. Love it! Apart from the end bit, why would they go to Liverpool when they only finished 7th and we Finished 5th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 so, no pics/clips of Toby wandering around a medical/training facility with his wash/sports bag under his arm? thought he was definitely having his medical with spurs this afternoon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Spurs fans are generally very confident that he will be their player. They cannot comprehend why he would chose saints over spurs. fair enough but Koeman saying he has spoken to him etc his just him keeping us fans sweet and there is no way we will get him IF we do, I wonder what their reaction will be on the fighting cocks forum The contradiction is strong in this one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 The contradiction is strong in this one.. who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Batman, you have me confused with your post. It could just be me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 the top half was me commenting on what I got from what spurs fans are saying then I left a gap and then I commented my own thoughts on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckenham Saint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 so, no pics/clips of Toby wandering around a medical/training facility with his wash/sports bag under his arm? thought he was definitely having his medical with spurs this afternoon? the spurs fans also said he was definitely having a medical there the other day and then he posted a picture on instagram that didn't look much like a normal medical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 the top half was me commenting on what I got from what spurs fans are saying then I left a gap and then I commented my own thoughts on it Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 so many conflicting reports / guesses/ behind the scenes blah-hah on this already, but if it hangs on a date in the original contract for the £1.5 payback (which AM apparantly have seemingly not paid.......and Saints has told AM they want Toby for the agreed (£6.8 million) then we surely have a very strong case....... IF AM go ahead and try to sell him to the highest bidder..:suspicious:they stand a chance of being convicted for breach of contract...and further penalties from UEFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 the spurs fans also said he was definitely having a medical there the other day and then he posted a picture on instagram that didn't look much like a normal medical... Bunch of thick c**ts. They make Talksport sound like Radio 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Contracts and football!!! Seemingly too many people don't pay attention to what they sign, and if that is the case here which it seems to be, you only have yourself to blame if you screw it up. I don't buy into things being lost in translation. SFC's lawyers would either have someone proficient in Spanish or maybe a Spanish office, or if not, would have employed a Spanish firm. If it was in English, then Madrid should have made sure their lawyers understood English (which I am sure that they would have done). It by all accounts seems that AM ****ed up big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Koeman speaks to Blackmore: https://audioboom.com/boos/3348056-listen-saintsfc-boss-ronald-koeman-on-futures-of-schneiderlinmo4-alderweireldtob-with-bigadamsport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Koeman speaks to Blackmore: https://audioboom.com/boos/3348056-listen-saintsfc-boss-ronald-koeman-on-futures-of-schneiderlinmo4-alderweireldtob-with-bigadamsport Hopes Toby will become a saint not sure as it is business we think we are right, we will see Believe he will continue at southampton Have to believe the player when he says he wants to come back turned down a bid from man united for morgan nothing has changed, no other bids and will travel with the side he is fine this year compared to last year we all know the situation, we all know he wants to move we all know if we do not get a bid accepted you remain a southampton player he knows pre season is important best if there is a deal to be done needs to be done quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Are they just not happy in nicking our song, a lad that I work with is Spuds fan he has not spoken to me all day after I told him to feck off after he made a remark about they were going to sign Toby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Are they just not happy in nicking our song, a lad that I work with is Spuds fan he has not spoken to me all day after I told him to feck off after he made a remark about they were going to sign Toby. You should also put his stapler in jelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Fine if Manchester City want him he can come to Southampton for £6.8M as agreed and we sell on for £20M easy as that. You were probably joking, but that is the likely way out. We can exercise the option to buy at that price, then if the Court/FA rule he cannot sign a contract with Saints, and is saleable, then we must sell him to the highest bidder. We get cash, but we don't get the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 We need to buy someone whose name we can pronounce and spell ......meaning to pronounce and spell correctly?. All prospective signings must also pass the " Dave Merrington Language Test ". If DM can't manage that - forget them - they're out ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Love it! Apart from the end bit, why would they go to Liverpool when they only finished 7th and we Finished 5th? Because regardless of how close we were behind them, we will never ever finish above them apparently. And even if we do, they are such a big club with so much history, albeit in the ever more distant past, that no player would ever pass up the chance to play for them. And Liverpool is a much more vibrant city than Southampton. Oh, and many of his mates will already be there, so they can share a bench and reminisce about the good times they had with us. Other than that, they will earn double the money. Liverpool are feckless that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I hope Toby isn't treating Ron like a wannabe WAG. Texting him he wants to be with him then disappearing off with someone else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Because regardless of how close we were behind them, we will never ever finish above them apparently. And even if we do, they are such a big club with so much history, albeit in the ever more distant past, that no player would ever pass up the chance to play for them. And Liverpool is a much more vibrant city than Southampton. Oh, and many of his mates will already be there, so they can share a bench and reminisce about the good times they had with us. Other than that, they will earn double the money. Liverpool are feckless that way. Which is mostly all true. Everyone who has had the opportunity to go to a bigger club since we returned to the prem has done so. The evidence is there for all to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Koeman speaks to Blackmore: https://audioboom.com/boos/3348056-listen-saintsfc-boss-ronald-koeman-on-futures-of-schneiderlinmo4-alderweireldtob-with-bigadamsport I love that man - he doesn't talk ******** he just answers openly and honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 You were probably joking, but that is the likely way out. We can exercise the option to buy at that price, then if the Court/FA rule he cannot sign a contract with Saints, and is saleable, then we must sell him to the highest bidder. We get cash, but we don't get the player. I don't get what you are saying. If a court said we had an enforceable contract (i.e. he was in effect ours) then why would the court say we couldn't sign him? If a court said he was ours, why would the FA or whatever other footballing body say we couldn't sign him? A court might say that AM had breached the contract but our loss is the buy-back price of the option, which they haven't paid yet. The date of the actual payment is probably secondary to the date they said they wanted to buy the option back. Can't see it being more than the option price + costs i.e. enforcing the least costly of the two alternatives in the contract. It's high time the edifice of professional football took a big tumble. If only peeps stopped paying Sky for their sports/football bundles we might begin to see some sanity. And we wouldn't see so many utter mediocrities (not meaning to put TA in that bracket) becoming as rich as the landed aristocracy once were, or w*nker bankers currently are. Just think, Dejan Lovren is probably rich enough never to have to work again. I'm not jealous, but outraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 IF AM go ahead and try to sell him to the highest bidder..:suspicious:they stand a chance of being convicted for breach of contract...and further penalties from UEFA. Breach of contract is a civil law matter, you cannot be convicted of a breach of contract, it is not a criminal offence. The remedy for a civil case will be through a civil judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Contracts and football!!! Seemingly too many people don't pay attention to what they sign, and if that is the case here which it seems to be, you only have yourself to blame if you screw it up. I don't buy into things being lost in translation. SFC's lawyers would either have someone proficient in Spanish or maybe a Spanish office, or if not, would have employed a Spanish firm. If it was in English, then Madrid should have made sure their lawyers understood English (which I am sure that they would have done). It by all accounts seems that AM ****ed up big time. You are right to a large extent. Almost certain though that the contract would be under the jurisdiction of neither England or Spain, more likely a "neutral" country, Switzerland would be a good choice (ha ha). The contract would normally be "written" in both languages, but it is the jurisdiction term that is critical, since that is where any judgement would take place. We of course would have got our legal eagles on this in the first place, and now our team will be certain of what they included, and will check with the person responsible for the legal team at SFC, i.e. the CFO, oh wait, he left today by mutual consent. ********. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I hope Toby isn't treating Ron like a wannabe WAG. Texting him he wants to be with him then disappearing off with someone else... Toby got married last week, I think his interest in Ron is a thing of the past, if it ever was a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Toby got married last week, I think his interest in Ron is a thing of the past, if it ever was a thing. Jay Rod did too, and he was wanted by others but signed. It was meant to be. Sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBizzier69 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I hope Toby was more upbeat than JRod when asked about his wedding - from the latest JRod video. Sure the new Mrs Rodriguez would be chuffed to hear her new husband's reaction when asked, club interview or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Breach of contract is a civil law matter, you cannot be convicted of a breach of contract, it is not a criminal offence. The remedy for a civil case will be through a civil judgement. I stand corrected, but I am assuming that SFC will pursue this through a court of some description ...or ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 You also suggested if the contract with us is no longer valid, he'll (probably) go wherever he's told to go. And he probably will, provided the money's better than Saints were prepared to pay. He's already said pretty much that he's easy where he ends up, wants to play and knows his best chance of getting away from Atletico's bench is to go along with what they want to do to get the most money, with the proviso that it's not obviously going to be detrimental to his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I wonder how the medical went? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 I wonder how the medical went? Blocked passage apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Blocked passage apparently Oh, that's why there are not any photos then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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