Toby

[Saint_Ash]

IMO If it is a legal issue, both AM and Saints will be consulting lawyers. If there is anything in the contract that causes problems AM's lawyers would advise them accordingly and more than likely delay the transfer until the legal problem is resolved. There also could be a registration problem ie. who holds the international clearance that last season was with Saints. If that hasn't been transferred back to AM there would be a serious problem with maybe nobody but Saints able to register him.

 

If he signs for Spurs and the Premier League accept the registration it is a done deal. If there is financial fall out that would be resolved by agreement or in court. IMO If he doesn't sign today there may well be a block on the move until resolved.

 

If we hold the registration maybe he'll sign for Spurs but we get him on a season long loan and he joins them next season... or maybe not

[Matthew Le God]

Sad times, the renaissance is over.

 

I'm getting deja vu of YOU and last (every) summer.

[sotonist]

We should get more than that, we'll get damages if the contract has been broken, probably get 4-5m from Atletico if it's proven they have broken a contract with us, they could end up with nothing out of this and would serve them right.

 

i'm no lawyer, but i agree with your assessment of the situation.

 

we had the right to acquire the asset at a set price. if the asset i sold for a price in excess of that then we have suffered damages of at least that difference. we should further be compensated for costs and possibly damages for opportunities lost while pursuing the transfer of the player under the agreement.

 

if the contract doesn't achieve that, then it was a bad contract.

[Window Cleaner]

This. The club has got cocky after last summer and thinks it can pull the same stunts again.

 

Sad times, the renaissance is over.

 

Never mind Alps, you'll be getting your annual fix of live Saints football tomorrow won't you ?

[Appy]

The good thing is, when Alpine comes out with all his crap, more often than not the opposite actually happens.

 

So if we told him to put on weight?

[Jai27]

What on earth are you on about?

 

Shaw - £32m, Lallana, 25m, Lovren £20m. The money right there was used to invest. Clyne went for a £8m fee, we replaced with Soares. Toby is not our player, no fee for him, and Morgan hasn't gone yet - so how can we reinvest?

 

Seriously, some of the posts on this forum and thread are ridiculous. A bunch of spoiled brats supporting this club.

 

I'm saying that the loss in quality this year will be worse than the last and it doesn't seem that we are replacing to the same standard. Happy to be proved wrong with Morgan but apparently we are not looking to bring anyone else in (suggesting that we won't reinvest), so what will happen to the 25mil as he's obviously leaving?

[S-Clarke]

So if we told him to put on weight?

 

We could try.

[COMEONYOUREDS]

Jesus christ, Belgian journo said no medical had been done or was scheduled, standard are reporting it was done yesterday, and we all established that there wasn't a medical yesterday didn't we? I'm more inclined to believe the Belgian guy than the evening ****ing standard.

 

Ben Fairthorne doesn't even know where Levy flew to, so lets just see how it pans out. I don't have any more info than anyone but the bedwetting on here is cringeworthy. He might still opt for spurs but i'm sure we will find a decent replacement

[S-Clarke]

I'm saying that the loss in quality this year will be worse than the last and it doesn't seem that we are replacing to the same standard. Happy to be proved wrong with Morgan but apparently we are not looking to bring anyone else in (suggesting that we won't reinvest), so what will happen to the 25mil as he's obviously leaving?

 

Umm, it doesn't really make any sense what you're saying.

 

1) We don't know what will happen with Toby, so we haven't replaced him yet.

2) We haven't sold Morgan, so can't replace him yet

 

I have no idea what the point you are trying to make is? There will be no more additions until the futures of Toby/Morgan are clear, that I thought was pretty clear from Koeman's interview. There is no way we can outlay a replacement for a £27m midfielder before the said midfielder has gone.

[COMEONYOUREDS]

We are still a chickensh*t club in the scheme of things, it seems.

 

f*ck ambition and being well-run, brings us nothing.

 

yeah lets go back to being badly run!

[St Chalet]

We are still a chickensh*t club in the scheme of things, it seems.

 

f*ck ambition and being well-run, brings us nothing.

 

Just quoting this for future reference.

[Saint_Ash]

I think it was FloridaMarlin that said Sky Sports are no better than tabloids when reporting news as fact. Everything points to him going to Spurs and if he has it still won't be the end of it.

[Saint Charlie]

Will be sad to lose him, especially to Spurs because he is a class player and they were close to us this year.

 

They are a bigger club, with ultimately better trophy propsects than us.

 

Big pressure to find a replacement because he was as important as anyone last season, and our record without him was far worse than with.

[Saint_clark]

I don't think it's obvious that Schneiderlin is leaving at all, not anymore.

[Jai27]

Umm, it doesn't really make any sense what you're saying.

 

1) We don't know what will happen with Toby, so we haven't replaced him yet.

2) We haven't sold Morgan, so can't replace him yet

 

I have no idea what the point you are trying to make is? There will be no more additions until the futures of Toby/Morgan are clear, that I thought was pretty clear from Koeman's interview.

 

The first sentance of my previous post is the point I'm trying to make. It's below in bold again just for you...

 

I'm saying that the loss in quality this year will be worse than the last and it doesn't seem that we are replacing to the same standard.

 

I'm looking forward to watching Soares play and seeing what he's about but it's hugely unlikely he'll be at Clynes level.

[S-Clarke]

I don't think it's obvious that Schneiderlin is leaving at all, not anymore.

 

He will go, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment if you believe he will stay. In a way, I think the club want it done ASAP so we can use the money.

[DT]

At present woefully short for Europe plus Premier campaign

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Saint_Ash]

i'm no lawyer, but i agree with your assessment of the situation.

 

we had the right to acquire the asset at a set price. if the asset i sold for a price in excess of that then we have suffered damages of at least that difference. we should further be compensated for costs and possibly damages for opportunities lost while pursuing the transfer of the player under the agreement.

 

if the contract doesn't achieve that, then it was a bad contract.

 

I'm not a lawyer but have contract law qualification and if there has been a breach then there will be a remedy and it's normally what the injured party missed out on with the contract not being fulfilled. The courts can either order a specific performance (meaning they force Toby to come to us) or damages. This can either be part of the transfer funds that AM receive or the £1.5M that was stated in the contract and since he's was valued at £6.8m a year ago and saints helped improve his value I would suggest it's somewhere in between, hence C.£4-5M

 

If this contract has to be ratified in Spain then I have no idea what will happen!

Edited 7 July, 2015 by Saint_Ash
bit more

[S-Clarke]

The first sentance of my previous post is the point I'm trying to make. It's below in bold again just for you...

 

I'm saying that the loss in quality this year will be worse than the last and it doesn't seem that we are replacing to the same standard.

 

I'm looking forward to watching Soares play and seeing what he's about but it's hugely unlikely he'll be at Clynes level.

 

Yeah, I know that's the point you're trying to make, but it's not really a point to make at the moment. Once it's confirmed we lose Morgan and Toby for sure, then we will replace. Until that point, you cannot say we aren't replacing to the same standard.

[angelman]

We are still a chickensh*t club in the scheme of things, it seems.

 

f*ck ambition and being well-run, brings us nothing.

 

With far too many chickensh*t "supporters"

[jasonb]

The club appear to think they have a good legal case that all we had to pay is £6.8m as Madrid missed the deadline. If that is the price you contractually believe you need to pay, then why roll over have your belly tickled and pay more?

 

I think I saw it reported that the club would look to strike a deal with Ateltico regarding the transfer of Toby. If true then the club realised the players value had increased. The reason for the fee increasing is obviously down to Toby's form last season and the fact that other parties were interested, namely Tottenham. It's not hard to understand that in order to secure the player we would need to increase the agreed transfer fee IMO.

 

One caveat to the above is that I also read somewhere (possibly bullsh*t, who knows?) that there had been little to no contact between Saints and Atletico. Again, if true Saints have been naive once more in trying to let the clock run down on the terms of the agreement.

 

I/we have nothing concrete to go on but I would of liked to of seen Saints act decisively if any of my conjecture above carries any weight at all. IMO Saints could of entered into discussion with Atletico as soon as the season finished and discussed this agreement and the terms of it. Failure to do this seems like costing us a very, very good player.

 

This is just my opinion and I am in no way presenting any of it as fact.. just a discussion on a forum folks.

[david in sweden]

At present woefully short for Europe plus Premier campaign Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

this much I'd certainly agree with .....

 

our problem last season was lack of depth in the Prem.squad and now with a possible run in the Europa League .....it requires serious business.

[Matthew Le God]

At present woefully short for Europe plus Premier campaign

 

this much I'd certainly agree with .....

 

our problem last season was lack of depth in the Prem.squad and now with a possible run in the Europa League .....it requires serious business.

 

We are in need of a centre back, but where else are you both suggesting we are short? We probably won't be signing another central midfielder until a deal for Schneiderlin is looking likely. We have a lot of attacking players now and Koeman appears to have indicated he is happy in that regard.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

We are in need of a centre back, but where else are you suggesting we are short? We probably won't be signing another central midfielder until a deal for Schneiderlin is looking likely. We have a lot of attacking players now and Koeman appears to have indicated he is happy in that regard.

 

In his interview last week Koeman said he is looking at other number 10 / attacking midfielders.

[trousers]

I find it totally unbelievable to think Les hasn't tried to buy Toby for more than the agreed right-to-buy fee. It would be very misguided to sit back and assume we would get him for that price and even more misguided to try and stay quiet and let the clock tick down on the buy-out clause Atletico had. Very naive if true.

 

That would only be naive if the contract wording said: "You won't get him for £6.8m even if we (Athletico Madrid) don't pay the £1.5m option cancellation payment on time". If the contract says: "You will get him for £6.8m if you want him, unless we pay you £1.5m before 1st July" then we've done exactly the right thing. It obviously all depends on the wording of the contract, the exact content of which none of us know about.

[Saint_Ash]

A Fair few of the kids will be brought in I reckon this season, especially in the European games, even if it's on the bench, I'm sure Les Reed alluded to the fact as well.

[trousers]

This. The club has got cocky after last summer and thinks it can pull the same stunts again.

 

Sad times, the renaissance is over.

 

[alehouseboys]

Just quoting this for future reference.

 

He must be joking with all this wrist-slashing stuff surely? Nobody could be that demented...oh hang on...all those drama queens last summer must be coming out of the shadows.

[Saint Charlie]

In his interview last week Koeman said he is looking at other number 10 / attacking midfielders.

 

Didn't he mean we got Juanmi for that? We have added Jay and Juanmi to replace Elia and Djuricic plus have a fit Tadic back.

 

Soares to replace Clyne, Stek to replace FF and Martina as a much needed utility defender.

 

If we replace Morgan and Toby then IMO the only area we are still weak is GK. Davis should be no 3, Gazza out on loan and better quality no 2.

 

Otherwise we are fine though IMO. The key is the quality of the Morgan/Toby replacements.

[Matthew Le God]

In his interview last week Koeman said he is looking at other number 10 / attacking midfielders.

 

Do you mean this interview? Because he doesn't say that at all, he is referring to Juanmi being the addition to the attacking midfielders, not that he wants any more.

 

 

Plus...

 

Adam Blackmore ‏@bigadamsport 16h16 hours ago

#saintsfc Ronald Koeman inferred in interview that signing of Juanmi ends interest in Djuricic & return of J-Rod & Isgrove ends Elia bid

[Ashby Saint]

this much I'd certainly agree with .....

 

our problem last season was lack of depth in the Prem.squad and now with a possible run in the Europa League .....it requires serious business.

 

I think we will play the senior squad to get into the Europa League group stage then use the kids / back-ups for the group stage matches for them to gain some highly valuable experience. We will be concentrating on the league and possibly FA cup to ensure that we qualify for Europe next season and build from there. We won't be spending big to boost the squad for the Europa League. Saints had said this repeatedly.

[DrZuess1979 the 2nd]

I think Toby to Spurs is a done deal

 

There is way to much info being leaked

[Saint Charlie]

Feel for Koeman in this, as his comments yesterday seem a little foolish if the reality is/was that the Spurs deal was virtually done.

 

Plus he must feel a little frustrsted to lose more quality players. Although he knows that could happen he obviously felt we would have a good chance of keeping Toby this summer.

 

Fonte too must be slightly peeved at seeing his defensive partners of the last two seasons getting big moves and he has to build another partnership again.

[trousers]

No sign of Les Reed in the Cuco Martina photoshoot. I guess he must be elsewhere....

[SO16_Saint]

In his interview last week Koeman said he is looking at other number 10 / attacking midfielders.

I originally read that as RK looking at 10 attacking midfielders!

[Batman]

he cant be going to spurs. the legal eagles on here told us it would be impossible due to the current issue.

 

Looks like we may have messed up. which goes against saints being all professional etc.

 

we shall see

[S-Clarke]

Why are some people thinking we need more new players, we're so short etc etc.

 

gk - Maarten, Davis, Gazzaniga, Forster, Britt

 

df -Cedric, Cuco, Gardos, Yoshida, Fonte, Bertrand, Targett, Stephens, McCarthy, +one other

 

mf - Morgan, Wanyama, Davis, Reed, JWP, Slattery. Obviously question mark over Morgan, he will be replaced with either 1 or 2 new MF additions when we get to that stage.

 

att - Juanmi, Rodriguez, Pelle, Long, Mane, Isgrove, Hesketh, Tadic, Gallagher, Mayuka, Gaston

 

As it stands, from last seasons team, we have lost Elia (big deal), Djuricic (big deal) and Clyne (will be missed), Toby (still qustion marks), and Forster (not sure for how long). Question marks still Over morgan.

 

We have gained...Slattery, Juanmi, Rodriguez, Gaston (for how long, who knows), Cuco, Maarten, Soures

 

so we are actually bigger squad wise than last season. The quality replacements will come when we need to make them.

[Sour Mash]

At present woefully short for Europe plus Premier campaign

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Woefully short in what way?

[Saint_Ash]

he cant be going to spurs. the legal eagles on here told us it would be impossible due to the current issue.

 

Looks like we may have messed up. which goes against saints being all professional etc.

 

we shall see

Why does it looked like we messed up and have not been professional? It seems we're the only ones who have been professional.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Do you mean this interview? Because he doesn't say that at all, he is referring to Juanmi being the addition to the attacking midfielders, not that he wants any more.

 

 

Plus...

 

Adam Blackmore ‏@bigadamsport 16h16 hours ago

#saintsfc Ronald Koeman inferred in interview that signing of Juanmi ends interest in Djuricic & return of J-Rod & Isgrove ends Elia bid

 

Koeman said this in the interview (when talking about Juanmi): "...I think in that position, in the offensive midfield position, the position behind the striker, we need some more players that we can use in that position and that makes more competition to the team..."

 

That's a plural, and not once in that interview did he say Juanmi was the only signing he'd make in that position.

 

Maybe it will be, but that is not what he said.

[Saint_Ash]

Why are some people thinking we need more new players, we're so short etc etc.

 

gk - Maarten, Davis, Gazzaniga, Forster, Britt

 

df -Cedric, Cuco, Gardos, Yoshida, Fonte, Bertrand, Targett, Stephens, McCarthy, +one other

 

mf - Morgan, Wanyama, Davis, Reed, JWP, Slattery. Obviously question mark over Morgan, he will be replaced with either 1 or 2 new MF additions when we get to that stage.

 

att - Juanmi, Rodriguez, Pelle, Long, Mane, Isgrove, Hesketh, Tadic, Gallagher, Mayuka, Gaston

 

As it stands, from last seasons team, we have lost Elia (big deal), Djuricic (big deal) and Clyne (will be missed), Toby (still qustion marks), and Forster (not sure for how long). Question marks still Over morgan.

 

We have gained...Slattery, Juanmi, Rodriguez, Gaston (for how long, who knows), Cuco, Maarten, Soures

 

so we are actually bigger squad wise than last season. The quality replacements will come when we need to make them.

 

I think our squad is bloated! I would suggest looking at that we're a first team defender short and that's it.

[Batman]

Why does it looked like we messed up and have not been professional? It seems we're the only ones who have been professional.

 

because it seems we have sat back and allowed spurs to sign him and jumping in when it is too late.

obviously, it is never saints fault as we are the model club and all that. but this transfer was well within our budget in fee and wages

more so, if we have got it wrong about a clause and we lose him because of that.

 

not often does a club like saints have it in well within our grasp to sign a player like Toby. It seems we have let that go

Edited 7 July, 2015 by Batman

[trousers]

the legal eagles on here told us it would be impossible due to the current issue.

 

I don't recall anyone saying it would be "impossible". Some people said IF the contract was watertight in our favour then we would be in a strong position, which would be the case, but given no-one knows how watertight the contract is nothing is "impossible" as things stand.

[Matthew Le God]

Why are some people thinking we need more new players, we're so short etc etc.

 

gk - Maarten, Davis, Gazzaniga, Forster, Britt

 

df -Cedric, Cuco, Gardos, Yoshida, Fonte, Bertrand, Targett, Stephens, McCarthy, +one other

 

mf - Morgan, Wanyama, Davis, Reed, JWP, Slattery. Obviously question mark over Morgan, he will be replaced with either 1 or 2 new MF additions when we get to that stage.

 

att - Juanmi, Rodriguez, Pelle, Long, Mane, Isgrove, Hesketh, Tadic, Gallagher, Mayuka, Gaston

 

As it stands, from last seasons team, we have lost Elia (big deal), Djuricic (big deal) and Clyne (will be missed), Toby (still qustion marks), and Forster (not sure for how long). Question marks still Over morgan.

 

We have gained...Slattery, Juanmi, Rodriguez, Gaston (for how long, who knows), Cuco, Maarten, Soures

 

so we are actually bigger squad wise than last season. The quality replacements will come when we need to make them.

 

He is 16 years old and just left school. He may progress quickly, but he'll start the season with the under 18's and under 21's.

Edited 7 July, 2015 by Matthew Le God

[shurlock]

Didn't he mean we got Juanmi for that? We have added Jay and Juanmi to replace Elia and Djuricic plus have a fit Tadic back.

 

Soares to replace Clyne, Stek to replace FF and Martina as a much needed utility defender.

 

If we replace Morgan and Toby then IMO the only area we are still weak is GK. Davis should be no 3, Gazza out on loan and better quality no 2.

 

Otherwise we are fine though IMO. The key is the quality of the Morgan/Toby replacements.

 

As I said before, we could do with another midfielder in addition to a replacement for Morgan. That would replace the loss of Cork who the club had attempted to keep and explains the earlier interest in Vilhenna (regardless of Reed's partial emergence). Assuming he goes, Morgan will be such a big loss that the more bodies we have in that area, the better.

[beavis17]

I think we'll get a centre back (Toby or alternative) and two midfielders when Morgan goes.

[S-Clarke]

He is 16 years old and just left school. He may progress quickly, but he'll start the season with the under 18's and under 21's.

 

I think he'll be included in squads this season though, not every week, but i can see him involved in cup games etc.

[Saint_Ash]

because it seems we have sat back and allowed spurs to sign him and jumping in when it is too late.

obviously, it is never saints fault as we are the model club and all that. but this transfer was well within our budget in fee and wages

more so, if we have got it wrong about a clause and we lose him because of that.

 

So you're on the side of not to bother looking at the contract we have, we should just desperately throw money at Atletico regardless? I'm not sure why it's so difficult to understand that if we had a contract to sign a player come a specific date, unless it is cancelled, then why should we ignore it? Yes, Toby is worth more, blah blah blah, so what? Until we signed him on loan he was worth £6.8m.

[Saint_Tony]

As i said before this was pretty much a done deal at the weekend with Spurs. I'm not sure how the whole legal action will affect proceedings and nor are Spurs but they think he's their player - '99% done'. Will hopefully know more in the next couple of hours.

 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[Batman]

So you're on the side of not to bother looking at the contract we have, we should just desperately throw money at Atletico regardless? I'm not sure why it's so difficult to understand that if we had a contract to sign a player come a specific date, unless it is cancelled, then why should we ignore it? Yes, Toby is worth more, blah blah blah, so what? Until we signed him on loan he was worth £6.8m.

 

im on the side to make sure we have covered every single base to ensure this transfer goes through. APPEARS we have not