Pastor Patrón Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 So it appears both Toby and Clyne have made us look like lemons, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 One day we'll find out what went wrong in this sorry saga, but someone somewhere in the club messed up big time with this one. OK AM were clearly playing games with the contract, but surely Saints would have been keeping a very close eye on the legal side of the matter to force AM's hand? Ultimately though if they wnated Toby to go to Spurs thats where he would go. Who knows what back-handers were involved also to get Spurs the deal...Euro football is rife with it (I would imagine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Perhaps us bidding for him would have been tantamount to admitting the loan business wasn't watertight. Then with all the pressure, Toby changed his mind and we realised our best course of action was cashing in and accepting compensation Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 What happens next could be interesting. If we were formal with our intent to activate the buyout clause, it's that formal notification that would still be valid now after Madrid failed to pay the cancellation fee, not the original (now expired) loan agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Why throw more money at a club to secure a player we had an agreement to sign? I don't care what he's worth, he's only worth that because he played for us. Thank god some of the people on this forum aren't running the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landford.saint Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Seems odd to me that only report is in the Standard, which has a reputation for being less than reliable, however it is reputed to be an outlet for Spuds propaganda.. Elsewhere no reports, with betting having us neck and neck, showing that no body really has any idea what is happening. So to sum up, probably Spuds trying to up the propaganda pressure, but don't hope too much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Why throw more money at a club to secure a player we had an agreement to sign? I don't care what he's worth, he's only worth that because he played for us. Thank god some of the people on this forum aren't running the club? Us believing our agreement to sign him for £6.8m has led to Spurs agreeing a deal to sign him for £11.5m and now it seems like it would take a remarkable circumstance for him to be a Saint. £5m is not insignificant of course, but when we paid Osvaldo £8m+ to bugger off is £5m to ensure that a top class player (who reportedly wants to sign for us) doesn't go elsewhere too much of an ask? Who knows. But I feel he would be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Loads of people on here jumping the gun. It's not over yet. Do tell Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWY Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 It was always going to be ultimately Toby's decision (regardless of any agreement with AM) & he's chosen Spurs. Good luck to him, time to move on, Who do we fancy as a replacement? I'd go for Bruno Martins Indi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 2+2=5 Your maths is not good at all, you need to swat up a bit, we all know the answer is 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Can't believe Les is going out to Madrid to discuss the compensation and I can't believe Atleti will do the deal with Spurs if they still see us a live bidder. The Standard are probably just reporting Fairthorne. He may well still go to Spurs, but I don't think it is by any means done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Us believing our agreement to sign him for £6.8m has led to Spurs agreeing a deal to sign him for £11.5m and now it seems like it would take a remarkable circumstance for him to be a Saint. £5m is not insignificant of course, but when we paid Osvaldo £8m+ to bugger off is £5m to ensure that a top class player (who reportedly wants to sign for us) doesn't go elsewhere too much of an ask? Who knows. But I feel he would be worth it. Do you have the source for the Osvaldo claims? No one knows how that pay off occurred, no one knows how it was structured. The fact is that it would be monumentally DUMB to throw another £5-6m at a player who we feel we have a legal right to sign for 6.9m. It would go against everything this club has put out there. We're not a city, or a chelsea. We can't just toss 5m down the drain as we feel. If we want to be self sustaining, then we can't go throwing money just to get stuff done. If we feel we have a genuine case here, then the common-sense way of addressing it is to look into the legalities - not just spend the money anyway. I don't believe it's a case of us not wanting to match the fee, it's more a case of us getting what we feel is correct out of the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 SSN reporting Toby has had medical at spurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Breaking Spurs news next on SSN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Us believing our agreement to sign him for £6.8m has led to Spurs agreeing a deal to sign him for £11.5m and now it seems like it would take a remarkable circumstance for him to be a Saint. £5m is not insignificant of course, but when we paid Osvaldo £8m+ to bugger off is £5m to ensure that a top class player (who reportedly wants to sign for us) doesn't go elsewhere too much of an ask? Who knows. But I feel he would be worth it. Toby is easily worth 11m+ but when there are contracts in place and god knows what else happening that no one on this forum knows then I find it all a bit silly to bash the club for not doing things properly. Obviously the forum would be boring without the speculation though. The silence coming out of the 3 clubs now is deafening though so I'm sure there's loads more to this than meets the eye and there will be lots of negotiating left to do. Hopefully we can negotiate with AM and use our legal standing to get toby, if Toby goes to Spurs AM could end up with nothing if we get the compensation so maybe we can give AM a couple of mill like you say and make it all go away if Toby comes to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint97 Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 https://twitter.com/SFC_Report/status/618356636525182976 Oh SH*T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 If the contract was in British law and an option to purchase then it is watertight. Options to purchase even if done on a fag packet are something you cant wriggle out of, as long as you follow the exact terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyOldBoy Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Do you have the source for the Osvaldo claims? No one knows how that pay off occurred, no one knows how it was structured. The fact is that it would be monumentally DUMB to throw another £5-6m at a player who we feel we have a legal right to sign for 6.9m. It would go against everything this club has put out there. We're not a city, or a chelsea. We can't just toss 5m down the drain as we feel. If we want to be self sustaining, then we can't go throwing money just to get stuff done. If we feel we have a genuine case here, then the common-sense way of addressing it is to look into the legalities - not just spend the money anyway. I don't believe it's a case of us not wanting to match the fee, it's more a case of us getting what we feel is correct out of the deal. TRUE... this should be open-and-shut legal wise... either we have the legal right to buy him at the agreed price in which case we should and if we are prevented from doing so , we should take legal action .... or we don't and in which case we should have paid the asking price since we sold a great big pile of sh1te called Lovren for a lot more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Probably game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Do you have the source for the Osvaldo claims? No one knows how that pay off occurred, no one knows how it was structured. The fact is that it would be monumentally DUMB to throw another £5-6m at a player who we feel we have a legal right to sign for 6.9m. It would go against everything this club has put out there. We're not a city, or a chelsea. We can't just toss 5m down the drain as we feel. If we want to be self sustaining, then we can't go throwing money just to get stuff done. If we feel we have a genuine case here, then the common-sense way of addressing it is to look into the legalities - not just spend the money anyway. I don't believe it's a case of us not wanting to match the fee, it's more a case of us getting what we feel is correct out of the deal. Simon Peach (who is reliable, yes?) claims that Osvaldo cost Saints £25m NET of any loan fee / wage contribution we received from his spells elsewhere. If you take into account his ~£13m transfer fee that means we have paid him £12m in wages and to leave the club, during just 6 months playing time at the club. If anything my £8m is conservative, but hey ho. If you believe you have a legal right to own a player for £6.8m then of course you are dumb to bid £11.5m. Though the Daily Echo said we'd be willing to pay more than £6.8m to make the deal happen. But obviously we didn't, for whatever reason. That gave Spurs a chance to do a deal. Time will tell if he it is a deal that can go through. The wildcard in all this is that Toby is clearly willing to join Spurs and isn't waiting for Saints. That, I fear, is our mistake. Hard for him to turn his back on Spurs after a medical there, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Toby keeping his options open but I'd find it foolish with all this in the air that he'd want to do anything until it's sorted. I suppose he can have his medical then sit back for a while and see how it pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 If he does go to Spurs it will be disappointing on a number of levels. Very. Still, on we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Losing Clyne, Toby and Schneiderlin is easily as bad as losing Shaw, Lovren and Lallana. Absolutely abysmal by Saints if we managed to f#ck this one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Toby keeping his options open but I'd find it foolish with all this in the air that he'd want to do anything until it's sorted. I suppose he can have his medical then sit back for a while and see how it pans out. He doesn't need to keep his options open if he has already decided what to do. Maybe he told Koeman privately that he was going to join Spurs? Then we would just be looking to get our 1.5m from AM and move on. If Sky sre right and he has had a medical then its as good as done IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Toby keeping his options open but I'd find it foolish with all this in the air that he'd want to do anything until it's sorted. I suppose he can have his medical then sit back for a while and see how it pans out. What isn't sorted then? If he's gone there, had his medical and signs later on in the day then it is sorted. He's been transferred to Tottenham Hotspur and we can claim moral ownership of him but come first day of the season he'll be turning out for them. Corner shop mentality does not cut it in the higher echelons of european football. We wanted the player ? We knew the price and needed to pay it..that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 He doesn't need to keep his options open if he has already decided what to do. Maybe he told Koeman privately that he was going to join Spurs? Then we would just be looking to get our 1.5m from AM and move on. We should get more than that, we'll get damages if the contract has been broken, probably get 4-5m from Atletico if it's proven they have broken a contract with us, they could end up with nothing out of this and would serve them right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 I wonder if Toby and Les exchanged pleasantries at the airport as one arrived and one departed to/from Madrid ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 I blame his wife and London Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 What isn't sorted then? If he's gone there, had his medical and signs later on in the day then it is sorted. He's been transferred to Tottenham Hotspur and we can claim moral ownership of him but come first day of the season he'll be turning out for them. Corner shop mentality does not cut it in the higher echelons of european football. We wanted the player ? We knew the price and needed to pay it..that is all. The club appear to think they have a good legal case that all we had to pay is £6.8m as Madrid missed the deadline. If that is the price you contractually believe you need to pay, then why roll over have your belly tickled and pay more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 What isn't sorted then? If he's gone there, had his medical and signs later on in the day then it is sorted. He's been transferred to Tottenham Hotspur and we can claim moral ownership of him but come first day of the season he'll be turning out for them. Corner shop mentality does not cut it in the higher echelons of european football. We wanted the player ? We knew the price and needed to pay it..that is all. Don't agree, we had a contract with them and they broke it, so you're saying even though we had a binding agreement that he would be our player come a specific date if the agreement wasn't cancelled we should ignore it and throw silly money at AM to get him. It's like going in to shop and seeing a bargain for 10 quid but saying you've seen it in another shop for £300 so I'll give you that. People would think you're mental. Oh well, either way it'll be interesting to see what comes out of it. If we get more than the £1.5m then it's worth pursuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 I think he would be well advised not to sign for anyone until Saints and Athletico have sorted this out. If he does and then can't play for some reason he is going to be pretty miffed and will probably end up getting loaned out to someone again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiggy Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Bored now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai27 Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Losing Clyne, Toby and Schneiderlin is easily as bad as losing Shaw, Lovren and Lallana. Absolutely abysmal by Saints if we managed to f#ck this one up. If not worse. Toby is better than Lovren, Schneiderlin better than Lallana, and Clyne better than Shaw. The main difference from last year is that we don't seem to be willing to reinvest and are instead buying cheap. The comment from the other day about our business in the transfer window being pretty much done as far as incoming is concerned is hugely worrying. Wheres the 25mil for Morgan going? Aren't we supposed to still be over 30mil up after last summers business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 We are still a chickensh*t club in the scheme of things, it seems. f*ck ambition and being well-run, brings us nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beavis17 Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Where's K billy when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 I think he would be well advised not to sign for anyone until Saints and Athletico have sorted this out. If he does and then can't play for some reason he is going to be pretty miffed and will probably end up getting loaned out to someone again. Especially as THE9 has said a few times that we probably own his registration. Personally I don't think we do as that would only happen once we've paid the £6.8m. Betting suspended on Bet Victor now, went down to 1/2 first though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Losing Clyne, Toby and Schneiderlin is easily as bad as losing Shaw, Lovren and Lallana. Absolutely abysmal by Saints if we managed to f#ck this one up. Maybe we should lump in an offer for Jordan Rhodes, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 If not worse. Toby is better than Lovren, Schneiderlin better than Lallana, and Clyne better than Shaw. The main difference from last year is that we don't seem to be willing to reinvest and are instead buying cheap. The comment from the other day about our business in the transfer window being pretty much done as far as incoming is concerned is hugely worrying. Wheres the 25mil for Morgan going? Aren't we supposed to still be over 30mil up after last summers business? This. The club has got cocky after last summer and thinks it can pull the same stunts again. Sad times, the renaissance is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 If not worse. Toby is better than Lovren, Schneiderlin better than Lallana, and Clyne better than Shaw. The main difference from last year is that we don't seem to be willing to reinvest and are instead buying cheap. The comment from the other day about our business in the transfer window being pretty much done as far as incoming is concerned is hugely worrying. Wheres the 25mil for Morgan going? Aren't we supposed to still be over 30mil up after last summers business? What on earth are you on about? Shaw - £32m, Lallana, 25m, Lovren £20m. The money right there was used to invest. Clyne went for a £8m fee, we replaced with Soares. Toby is not our player, no fee for him, and Morgan hasn't gone yet - so how can we reinvest? Seriously, some of the posts on this forum and thread are ridiculous. A bunch of spoiled brats supporting this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 We are still a chickensh*t club in the scheme of things, it seems. f*ck ambition and being well-run, brings us nothing. Don't be a dicck! How are we being chickenshjt? You have no clue as to what is happening or going on but don't let it stop you crying and attacking the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaint4ever Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 100% speculation! If he's had a medical we Would of had pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 The tricky part I think is what contractual agreement we had with Toby when we signed him on loan last summer i.e. did we have a contract in place that would automatically kick in if AM didn't pay the 1.5m fee by the agreed date? If so then we're in a very strong position. If not, we can't force TA to sign for us if he wants to join Spurs regardless of AM being in breach of contract surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Maybe we should lump in an offer for Jordan Rhodes, yes? I'd take Rhodes over the mighty Juanmi any day of the week, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manzo Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 If not worse. Toby is better than Lovren, Schneiderlin better than Lallana, and Clyne better than Shaw. The main difference from last year is that we don't seem to be willing to reinvest and are instead buying cheap. The comment from the other day about our business in the transfer window being pretty much done as far as incoming is concerned is hugely worrying. Wheres the 25mil for Morgan going? Aren't we supposed to still be over 30mil up after last summers business? Erm, Ronald said that our business was done, dependent on the Morgan and Toby situations, i.e. we will replace them if they go. It's not that hard to understand, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Erm, Ronald said that our business was done, dependent on the Morgan and Toby situations, i.e. we will replace them if they go. It's not that hard to understand, is it? For most, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 IMO If it is a legal issue, both AM and Saints will be consulting lawyers. If there is anything in the contract that causes problems AM's lawyers would advise them accordingly and more than likely delay the transfer until the legal problem is resolved. There also could be a registration problem ie. who holds the international clearance that last season was with Saints. If that hasn't been transferred back to AM there would be a serious problem with maybe nobody but Saints able to register him. If he signs for Spurs and the Premier League accept the registration it is a done deal. If there is financial fall out that would be resolved by agreement or in court. IMO If he doesn't sign today there may well be a block on the move until resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 We are still a chickensh*t club in the scheme of things, it seems. f*ck ambition and being well-run, brings us nothing. What is your definition of a "chickensh*t club"? "Brings us nothing" - how about in 2014/15 after you had a meltdown in the summer of 2014, Saints finished in their highest ever Premier League position and qualified for European competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonb Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 I find it totally unbelievable to think Les hasn't tried to buy Toby for more than the agreed right-to-buy fee. It would be very misguided to sit back and assume we would get him for that price and even more misguided to try and stay quiet and let the clock tick down on the buy-out clause Atletico had. Very naive if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manzo Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 This. The club has got cocky after last summer and thinks it can pull the same stunts again. Sad times, the renaissance is over. This really must be a troll account, mustn't it, no one can be *that* stupid, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 The good thing is, when Alpine comes out with all his crap, more often than not the opposite actually happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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