EU referendum

[simo]

Seriously? The bookies have 'stay' at 1/3.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/645770/EU-referendum-TNS-poll-Brexit-David-Cameron-renegotiation

[Wes Tender]

But who leads the respective campaigns is highly relevant to the tenor of the debate before June and the outcome.

 

The out brigade's leading advocates are a bunch of marginalised idiots with approval public ratings down the pan. If you're going to side with Farage, Galloway and Iain Duncan Smith, you may be tempted to ask what's wrong with you. These are widely despised individuals, and with good reason. Even Gove, the darling of certain sections of the Tory party, has dreadful approval ratings in opinion polls.

 

On the yes side, Alan Johnson, for Labour, and Theresa May, for the Tories, have a much wider popularity and political weight. And Cameron has the advantage of the incumbency of office to make the balance even more for the impression of a level-headed Yes campaign against a swivel-eyed loon-led No vote. Corbyn is really a yes-no fence-sitter, as ever considering his 'options', so he doesn't count.

 

There will be plenty of voters who will think they don't want to get into the arcane legalities of the debate but will weigh up their vote based on a judgement of relative sanity among the lading advocates On that basis alone, the Yes vote wins by a mile.

 

You assured me that there was no way that Corbyn would be elected leader of the Labour Party, so your judgement is a little suspect when it comes to predictions on peoples' voting intentions.

 

There are voters who despise Farage, Galloway and Iain Duncan Smith, but of course equally there are also those who despise Cameron and Osborne too as toffee-nosed Eton snobs. You have a very poor opinion of your fellow countrymen, believing that they would vote on issues as important to the Country as these, based purely on the personalities of the main campaigners rather than on the debate of the pros and cons of our continued membership. But if as you say there are plenty of voters who will do that, then equally there are plenty who will base their votes on what the media tells them to do. And I would judge the media to be largely Eurosceptic.

 

Just to bring you up to date, though, the referendum no longer asks for a "yes" or "no" vote. It has been changed to "stay" or "leave" options.

[buctootim]

 

Just to bring you up to date, though, the referendum no longer asks for a "yes" or "no" vote. It has been changed to "stay" or "leave" options.

 

There is an inherent bias with Yes / No. People prefer to say 'yes' than 'no' so the question was changed. Im not sure there isnt a similar bias with 'stay' and 'leave' though. Its not a massive effect , but a couple of percentage points could be enough to change the outcome.

[ScepticalStan]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/645770/EU-referendum-TNS-poll-Brexit-David-Cameron-renegotiation

 

Silly me looking at the bookies, I should be paying more attention to the Daily Express

[hutch]

Silly me looking at the bookies, I should be paying more attention to the Daily Express

Remind us again what the odds were on an outright Tory win last May?

[Verbal]

Silly me looking at the bookies, I should be paying more attention to the Daily Express

 

Which reminds me of James Cameron's description of the British right-wing press (Express, Mail, Telegraph, Sun) as "warhorses ridden by grocers." Their posturing on the EU referendum is a case in point...

[Batman]

One major plus if UK votes to leave....it will trigger another referendum in Scotland (apparently)

[aintforever]

One major plus if UK votes to leave....it will trigger another referendum in Scotland (apparently)

 

I wonder how many jocks will vote to leave just because of this?

[Wade Garrett]

One major plus if UK votes to leave....it will trigger another referendum in Scotland (apparently)

 

They'll be even less likely to leave now. Their oil is worth naff all.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I wonder how many jocks will vote to leave just because of this?

 

Hopefully that will dawn on some of them because there's no other way they're going to get another referendum anytime soon . Of course the SNP used to be anti EU , until they started to base their answer to the " what will an independent Scotland look like" on The Celtic tiger and EU membership .

[Batman]

not to mention the EU Parliament can (and probably will) unpick/reverse this 'deal' after the UK vote should that result in "stay"

[Lord Duckhunter]

not to mention the EU Parliament can (and probably will) unpick/reverse this 'deal' after the UK vote should that result in "stay"

 

There's also the question off getting the timing through Westminster . The Nats were against a June date because there's Scottish elections in the early summer , they wanted Sept . I also read somewhere that the electrol commission weren't happy with June for the same reason . I guess labour will vote for June & it'll carry , because like Cameron they'll want to go early before the migrant thing kicks off all summer , but it would be interesting if they pushed for a different date just to embarrass Dave. Sept is better for Leave MPs , so the government will be defeated if labour want to do so.

[CB Fry]

There's also the question off getting the timing through Westminster . The Nats were against a June date because there's Scottish elections in the early summer , they wanted Sept . I also read somewhere that the electrol commission weren't happy with June for the same reason . I guess labour will vote for June & it'll carry , because like Cameron they'll want to go early before the migrant thing kicks off all summer , but it would be interesting if they pushed for a different date just to embarrass Dave. Sept is better for Leave MPs , so the government will be defeated if labour want to do so.

Labour trying to move the date will look ridiculous, and frankly the shower of sh it running the party couldn't organise that anyway. They all hate the SNP so no one is going to give them what they want.

[John Boy Saint]

I very much stand to be corrected, but on initial viewing of the situation we are one of the richest nations on earth, if we vote to leave the EU that will cause a seismic ripple in the EU as the folks of Germany and France especially will start asking questions.

But all the Mickey Mouse directives and weird rulings we adhere to already aside, we piddle something like £20m+ a day into the EU as our membership subs which gets frittered away on all sorts.

I worked for a company who bought 90% of a Portugeuse manufacturing company, that part of the business had to build a separate building for staff rest breaks under EU directives, and because they were a manufacturing facility had to also include showers (that were never used) into the build. Our MD asked whether we had applied for EU funding for the build, just like other local companies had and succeeded in getting, our man in the factory said we had been turned down flat because we were majority UK owned.

Going back to this £20m a day, if we weren't giving this away we wouldn't have half the cuts we are making in the name of austerity.

We would probably wobble for a few months as currencies in particular would get skittish, the City would probably feel like it's engine had been given a de-coke.

As I said at the beginning, if we vote to leave, there will be a Tsunami that we won't be wiped out by, might be a bit windy for a while, at the end of the day we ran 2/3's of the World without anyone else sticking their beak in, who says we can't stand on our own 2 feet: there are many countries in the world that do already............... Don't forget we still have strong ties to the commonwealth.

[Sour Mash]

Why is Kate Hoey not mentioned as one of the lead voices in the 'leave' campaign?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The first post renegotiation deal poll shows a early - but clear enough - lead for the ''Stay'' campaign:

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-21/brexit-campaign-to-stay-in-european-union-gains-momentum/7187914

 

Yes polls are indeed unreliable and there is a long way to go yet of course ...

[ScepticalStan]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/11/europe-turn-tables-bullying-britain-david-cameron-eu

 

"It’s time for Europe to turn the tables on bullying Britain"

 

"So far all the talk has been of David Cameron’s demands. But the EU would hold all the power in post-Brexit negotiations, so it should spell out how it would make an outgoing Britain suffer"

 

The supine comments below the line are frankly jaw-dropping. This is why, whilst I'd like us to leave, I have no hope whatsoever.

[Batman]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/11/europe-turn-tables-bullying-britain-david-cameron-eu

 

"It’s time for Europe to turn the tables on bullying Britain"

 

"So far all the talk has been of David Cameron’s demands. But the EU would hold all the power in post-Brexit negotiations, so it should spell out how it would make an outgoing Britain suffer"

 

The supine comments below the line are frankly jaw-dropping. This is why, whilst I'd like us to leave, I have no hope whatsoever.

 

Incredible comments really

 

No doubt that if we vote to stay, everything will get ripped up over a very short space of time anyway.

[Badger]

Incredible comments really

No doubt that if we vote to stay, everything will get ripped up over a very short space of time anyway.

 

Of course it will, but I expect Cameron will still be full of what a good deal he negotiated...

[CB Fry]

Incredible comments really

 

No doubt that if we vote to stay, everything will get ripped up over a very short space of time anyway.

And if we leave, everything will be simply brilliant forever.

[Verbal]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/11/europe-turn-tables-bullying-britain-david-cameron-eu

 

"It’s time for Europe to turn the tables on bullying Britain"

 

"So far all the talk has been of David Cameron’s demands. But the EU would hold all the power in post-Brexit negotiations, so it should spell out how it would make an outgoing Britain suffer"

 

The supine comments below the line are frankly jaw-dropping. This is why, whilst I'd like us to leave, I have no hope whatsoever.

 

I thought the article explained the balance of power very well - especially this one: half of British trade is with the EU but only 11% of EU trade is with Britain. Who's going to lose with that equation, do you think?

 

And here's another: our net contribution to the EU is £6.7bn. According to the CBI, the net economic benefit from Britain's EU membership is over ten times that - up to £78bn. Again, who's really in the driving seat if the UK votes no to membership?

[hutch]

I don't think this debate is going to be won or lost on dodgy statistics.

[Wes Tender]

I thought the article explained the balance of power very well - especially this one: half of British trade is with the EU but only 11% of EU trade is with Britain. Who's going to lose with that equation, do you think?

 

And here's another: our net contribution to the EU is £6.7bn. According to the CBI, the net economic benefit from Britain's EU membership is over ten times that - up to £78bn. Again, who's really in the driving seat if the UK votes no to membership?

 

http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl/

 

It seems that there are conflicting cases depending on whether one chooses to believe the Stay or the Leave campaigns. Ironically our trade with the rest of Europe has declined because of the strength of the pound against the weak Euro. Should we therefore join the Eurozone and get rid of the Pound to make our goods cheaper to buy? Many prophesied doom and gloom if we were to remain outside of the Eurozone, but it helped our economy being outside and we aren't obliged to help bail the basket-cases whose economies have suffered by being in the straight-jacket that Euro membership entailed.

 

All very well these articles predicting the dire consequences on our economy by pointing up the trading benefits we derive with the EU block, but it doesn't seem to have occurred to the people espousing these scenarios that by leaving the EU, we are not hell-bent on ceasing trade with the EU. Neither will the main exporter countries within the EU wish to see their exports to us suddenly cease.

 

Who is in the driving seat were we to leave? Again, the answer to that depends on what position one holds regarding our current membership. Yes, the basis of our trade with Europe will have to be renegotiated, but it is the most powerful nations of the EU who have the most exports to us and therefore have the most to lose by attempts to make trade with us more difficult. On the other side of that coin, we would regain lost sovereignty and control of our borders, would not be burdened by mass immigration from the poorer EU members, would not be obliged to pay them benefits, we would be able to cut through the bureaucratic red-tape imposed on our industries by Brussels, would not be burdened by the inefficiencies of the CAP, could revive our fisheries industry by regaining our territorial waters, etc, etc.

 

Naturally, if we left the EU and unfair trade restrictions were imposed on us, we would seek to increase our trade with our Commonwealth friends and the rest of the World, to the further detriment of the EU states.

 

One thing is for sure though; if the EU were to attempt to bully us, as recommended by the idiot who wrote that article, they will have severely misjudged the British character and it would backfire against them spectacularly. In my opinion, that sort of approach from the EU would provide a huge boost for the Leave campaign.

[buctootim]

One thing is for sure though; if the EU were to attempt to bully us, as recommended by the idiot who wrote that article, they will have severely misjudged the British character and it would backfire against them spectacularly. In my opinion, that sort of approach from the EU would provide a huge boost for the Leave campaign.

 

Im British and my character says he's largely right. Full of home truths, even if it could have been wrapped up more nicely.

 

One of the problems of the British character imo is delusions of grandeur and the perpetual idea we are being shortchanged or screwed and can get a better deal by privatising public services / leaving the EU / bombing some foreigners.

 

We aren't all that great or successful, nearly all of the other northern European countries have a higher standard of living than us. Australia and New Zealand found new markets nearer to home long long ago. The idea that we can roll the clock back 75 years is risible. We need to get used to the idea that we are a small to medium sized country with a Savile Row distant past, Primark medium past and maybe a M&S future if we dont screw it up by flouncing out when we didnt get our own way.

[Wes Tender]

I'm reading reports that Boris Johnson is about to join the Leave campaign. Here is the big beast that can make the difference! It appears that Cameron urging him not to link arms with Farage and Galloway didn't persuade him to ally with the Stay brigade. Despite the personality smears on Farage and Galloway, it doesn't mean that both of them are wrong to hold their views.

[buctootim]

I'm reading reports that Boris Johnson is about to join the Leave campaign. .

 

Its been all over the news since this morning

[Verbal]

I don't think this debate is going to be won or lost on dodgy statistics.

 

The problem is it might be won by the wilful denial of reality.

 

One thing is for sure though; if the EU were to attempt to bully us, as recommended by the idiot who wrote that article, they will have severely misjudged the British character and it would backfire against them spectacularly. In my opinion, that sort of approach from the EU would provide a huge boost for the Leave campaign.

 

There's no 'misjudging' about it. If we leave, they can do pretty much what the hell they like given the balance of economic power. It's not as if a UK government would have any leverage, having thrown its toys out of the pram, and I can well imagine the French and Germans in particular wanting to seize the spoils.

 

Another fantasy conjured up by the out/no campaign is that Norway and Switzerland offer some sort of model of how to deal with the EU while remaining outside it. They don't, because they were never members in the first place. Unlike them, we will be going cap in hand for similar preferential access while having royally ****ed off pretty much all other members states. I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to do exactly as suggested in that article. Wouldn't you?

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'm reading reports that Boris Johnson is about to join the Leave campaign. Here is the big beast that can make the difference! It appears that Cameron urging him not to link arms with Farage and Galloway didn't persuade him to ally with the Stay brigade. Despite the personality smears on Farage and Galloway, it doesn't mean that both of them are wrong to hold their views.

 

Cameron claims that Corbyn " hates Britain " , Hillary Benn says he won't share a platform with any Tory . Labour ministers claim that Cameron will sell the nhs to his city buddies , The Nats call labour red Tories , Sturgeon is called the most dangerous women in the uk , yet all the lap dog bbc can concentrate on is Leave splits & Farage / Galloway show . Pathetic from the establishment , George & Nigel are life long Leave people , but for entirely different reasons , but they're still consistent , unlike the Mays and Javids of the world .

 

The mayor of London coming onboard shoots a load of Cameron's foxes .

[CB Fry]

Cameron claims that Corbyn " hates Britain " , Hillary Benn says he won't share a platform with any Tory . Labour ministers claim that Cameron will sell the nhs to his city buddies , The Nats call labour red Tories , Sturgeon is called the most dangerous women in the uk , yet all the lap dog bbc can concentrate on is Leave splits & Farage / Galloway show . Pathetic from the establishment , George & Nigel are life long Leave people , but for entirely different reasons , but they're still consistent , unlike the Mays and Javids of the world .

 

The mayor of London coming onboard shoots a load of Cameron's foxes .

When we leave the EU, who will run Great Britain? I don't know about you, but my money is on The Establishment.

[Lord Duckhunter]

When we leave the EU, who will run Great Britain?

 

Not unelected Europeans .

[CB Fry]

Not unelected Europeans .

The Establishment will run Britain, won't they?

[Batman]

it is official. Boris wants us to vote "Leave"

[buctootim]

Not unelected Europeans .

 

The Establishment will run Britain, won't they?

 

I vote for the neo Nazi Zionist Rothschild Illuminati NWO. Am I warm?

[Whitey Grandad]

Im British and my character says he's largely right. Full of home truths, even if it could have been wrapped up more nicely.

 

One of the problems of the British character imo is delusions of grandeur and the perpetual idea we are being shortchanged or screwed and can get a better deal by privatising public services / leaving the EU / bombing some foreigners.

 

We aren't all that great or successful, nearly all of the other northern European countries have a higher standard of living than us. Australia and New Zealand found new markets nearer to home long long ago. The idea that we can roll the clock back 75 years is risible. We need to get used to the idea that we are a small to medium sized country with a Savile Row distant past, Primark medium past and maybe a M&S future if we dont screw it up by flouncing out when we didnt get our own way.

 

Very well put.

 

I love the way that some have argued that we shall just 'increase our trade with the rest of the world'. If it were that easy we would be doing it already and we shall face increased competition from our former trading partners. We suffer from high transport costs and a volatile currency that nobody els uses or wants any more.

Edited 21 February, 2016 by Whitey Grandad

[Lord Duckhunter]

More harmony from the Remainians as Nicola Sturgeon warns Cameron he " better not campaign in Scotland " .

[badgerx16]

I'm bored of this already.

 

Mind you, regardless of the result, the aftermath, recrimination and bloodletting, could be very entertaining.

[Wes Tender]

Im British and my character says he's largely right. Full of home truths, even if it could have been wrapped up more nicely.

 

One of the problems of the British character imo is delusions of grandeur and the perpetual idea we are being shortchanged or screwed and can get a better deal by privatising public services / leaving the EU / bombing some foreigners.

 

We aren't all that great or successful, nearly all of the other northern European countries have a higher standard of living than us. Australia and New Zealand found new markets nearer to home long long ago. The idea that we can roll the clock back 75 years is risible. We need to get used to the idea that we are a small to medium sized country with a Savile Row distant past, Primark medium past and maybe a M&S future if we dont screw it up by flouncing out when we didnt get our own way.

 

We aren't that great, are we? Only the 5th biggest economy in the World. The only person I have seen mention rolling the clock back 75 years is you. Yes, Australia and New Zealand had to find new markets and the Far East was the natural one due to proximity. But the World is a smaller place with the improved global communications and we also trade with the Far East too. Linguistically and culturally we have a great deal more in common with most of the commonwealth than we do with much closer EU neighbours such as Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania. Again, you seem to be of the misguided opinion that if we "flounced" out of Europe, that we would not be able to continue trading with the EU on mutually agreeable terms.

[hutch]

Bosnia have just formally applied. And Turkey are lining themselves up.

[buctootim]

We aren't that great, are we? Only the 5th biggest economy in the World. The only person I have seen mention rolling the clock back 75 years is you. Yes, Australia and New Zealand had to find new markets and the Far East was the natural one due to proximity. But the World is a smaller place with the improved global communications and we also trade with the Far East too. Linguistically and culturally we have a great deal more in common with most of the commonwealth than we do with much closer EU neighbours such as Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania. Again, you seem to be of the misguided opinion that if we "flounced" out of Europe, that we would not be able to continue trading with the EU on mutually agreeable terms.

 

PPP is the one you want Wes - Purchasing Power Parity. We're 10th in total GDP and 27th by GDP per capita, behind such giants astride the world scene as Brunei, Taiwan and Oman. All of our neighbours - France, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Luxembourg, Iceland, Norway, Germany, Sweden etc are richer than us.

Edited 21 February, 2016 by buctootim

[CB Fry]

More harmony from the Remainians as Nicola Sturgeon warns Cameron he " better not campaign in Scotland " .

Why on earth would there be harmony between Nicola Sturgeon and David Cameron? Seems a rather odd thing to expect, much like Corbyn and Co won't be chummying up with the PM either.

 

I know you see it as a horrid smear by the establishment and everything but quite frankly it is actually news when Farage, Reckless and the other one are bickering like rats in a sack. They are the entire front line of the exact same party and that party is a single issue party and this is the single bloody issue they've been waiting for.

 

But yeah. Stop the presses. The SNP don't get on with David Cameron.

[Wes Tender]

Very well put.

 

I love the way that some have argued that we shall just 'increase our trade with the rest of the world'. If it were that easy we would be doing it already and we shall face increased competition from our former trading partners. We suffer from high transport costs and a volatile currency that nobody els uses or wants any more.

 

Which will be the former trading partners? You're yet another one who infers that us leaving the EU will mean that they won't wish to continue trading with us. You say that if we leave we will face increased competition from the EU for trade with other markets. Do they currently withdraw from competing against us out of common decency? Of course they already compete against us for non-EU trade. The country selling the best products at the most competitive price and service will continue to be the one getting the orders.

 

Regarding trade with the rest of the World, it in't necessarily a case of we would be doing it already if it was that easy. We have already been increasing trade with the rest of the World to a greater extent than most of our EU partners. There are EU rules and regulations that hamper our trade elsewhere which when removed will make it easier for us. High transport costs? Being an Island to the West of the richest part of the EU gives us an advantage with shipped imports from around the World. Volatile currency? Ironically, the Euro is far more volatile the Pound. I suspect that most Germans and French would prefer to have their Deutschmarks and Francs back.

[buctootim]

Which will be the former trading partners? You're yet another one who infers that us leaving the EU will mean that they won't wish to continue trading with us. You say that if we leave we will face increased competition from the EU for trade with other markets. Do they currently withdraw from competing against us out of common decency? Of course they already compete against us for non-EU trade. The country selling the best products at the most competitive price and service will continue to be the one getting the orders.

 

Regarding trade with the rest of the World, it in't necessarily a case of we would be doing it already if it was that easy. We have already been increasing trade with the rest of the World to a greater extent than most of our EU partners. There are EU rules and regulations that hamper our trade elsewhere which when removed will make it easier for us. High transport costs? Being an Island to the West of the richest part of the EU gives us an advantage with shipped imports from around the World. Volatile currency? Ironically, the Euro is far more volatile the Pound. I suspect that most Germans and French would prefer to have their Deutschmarks and Francs back.

 

 

As always Wes its mostly stuff made up in your head because you want it to be true. Post up facts figures and credible links if you have any.

[Badger]

Boris now throws his support to the leave campaign.

 

This has now taken on an intersting twist to liven up the next few months.

[Wes Tender]

PPP is the one you want Wes - Purchasing Power Parity. We're 10th in total GDP and 27th by GDP per capita, behind such giants astride the world scene as Brunei, Taiwan and Oman. All of our neighbours - France, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Luxembourg, Iceland, Norway, Germany, Sweden etc are richer than us.

 

I'm talking about size of economy and you're talking about something else entirely. Or are you going to argue that those countries you mention have larger economies than ours apart from Germany?

 

The world’s fastest growing region over the next 15 years is likely to be Central Asia. Its share of the global economy is forecast to have more than tripled since the start of the new millennium, from 2.8% in 2000 to 9.9% in 2030. The world’s slowest-growing region is likely to be Western Europe, with its share of the global economy falling by 42% over the same period. Several of its economies are expected to drop out of the world’s top 8 and top 20 economies which form the basis of the G-8 and G-20 clubs.

[buctootim]

I'm talking about size of economy and you're talking about something else entirely. Or are you going to argue that those countries you mention have larger economies than ours apart from Germany?

 

As I said, we're 10th and set to fall further. In 1950 we were third behind the US and the Soviet Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

Edited 21 February, 2016 by buctootim

[CB Fry]

Wes seems to think that a successful referendum for him will mean the UK won't be part of Western Europe any more. Maybe a little tugboat will tow our little islands all the way round to the Pacific, leaving that 'slowest growing region' far, far behind.

[badgerx16]

I'm talking about size of economy and you're talking about something else entirely. Or are you going to argue that those countries you mention have larger economies than ours apart from Germany?

"The world’s fastest growing region over the next 15 years is likely to be Central Asia. Its share of the global economy is forecast to have more than tripled since the start of the new millennium, from 2.8% in 2000 to 9.9% in 2030. The world’s slowest-growing region is likely to be Western Europe, with its share of the global economy falling by 42% over the same period. Several of its economies are expected to drop out of the world’s top 8 and top 20 economies which form the basis of the G-8 and G-20 clubs."

 

I assume the quote is from the CEBR website summary - below that summary you can find the following link;

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-16/-brexit-to-put-670-billion-of-u-k-trade-at-risk-study-says?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

"A British departure from the European Union would put at risk 466 billion pounds ($670 billion) of U.K. trade with nations in Europe and beyond, according to a report published Tuesday by the Centre for Economic and Business Research."

[buctootim]

Wes seems to think that a successful referendum for him will mean the UK won't be part of Western Europe any more. Maybe a little tugboat will tow our little islands all the way round to the Pacific, leaving that 'slowest growing region' far, far behind.

 

If we can dock alongside central Asia it will give massive boost to our GDP growth.

[Whitey Grandad]

Which will be the former trading partners? You're yet another one who infers that us leaving the EU will mean that they won't wish to continue trading with us. You say that if we leave we will face increased competition from the EU for trade with other markets. Do they currently withdraw from competing against us out of common decency? Of course they already compete against us for non-EU trade. The country selling the best products at the most competitive price and service will continue to be the one getting the orders.

 

Regarding trade with the rest of the World, it in't necessarily a case of we would be doing it already if it was that easy. We have already been increasing trade with the rest of the World to a greater extent than most of our EU partners. There are EU rules and regulations that hamper our trade elsewhere which when removed will make it easier for us. High transport costs? Being an Island to the West of the richest part of the EU gives us an advantage with shipped imports from around the World. Volatile currency? Ironically, the Euro is far more volatile the Pound. I suspect that most Germans and French would prefer to have their Deutschmarks and Francs back.

 

If you buy and sell in Euros there is no volatility.

 

And what the hell are these 'EU rules' that hamper our trade elsewhere?

 

If we leave the EU do you really believe that trading with them will not be more difficult and that we would have the same free access that we have at the moment? Dream on...

[Wes Tender]

I assume the quote is from the CEBR website summary - below that summary you can find the following link;

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-16/-brexit-to-put-670-billion-of-u-k-trade-at-risk-study-says?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

"A British departure from the European Union would put at risk 466 billion pounds ($670 billion) of U.K. trade with nations in Europe and beyond, according to a report published Tuesday by the Centre for Economic and Business Research."

 

As it explains about the report:- It was prepared for the Britain Stronger in Europe group that’s campaigning for the U.K. to remain an EU member in a referendum promised by Prime Minister David Cameron.

 

That's totally and utterly unbiased in every way then.