Supporting the players in taking the knee

[LuckyNumber7]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

If they picked a new gesture, dropped the Black Lives Matter and went back to something like the kick it out campaign then they would have full support from the stands. 
 

 

Exactly this, for all the wailing that taking the knee has nothing to do with BLM, we still have Black Lives Matter pasted across our screens every match on Sky, adorning banners in stadiums, and the players even wore it on their fkin shirts! I recall one of those England players kneeling, Tyrone Mings even attended a BLM rally. But yeah nothing to do with BLM...

Seriously, the vast majority of people in this country are not racist. Replace taking the knee/black power fist with something less aggravating and drop all reference to BLM and the political baggage associated with it and most people will get on board. 

I would love to know what people think this is achieving, other than more division. I highly doubt footballers taking the knee is making actual racists change their views.

[JustinSFC]

1 hour ago, bpsaint said:

Stop taking the knee, stop creating divides, treat each other with respect, and actually clamp down on real racists and maybe we’ll get somewhere.

^^^^

Edit: didn't properly quote.

Edited 6 June, 2021 by JustinSFC

[Lighthouse]

4 hours ago, wadesmith said:

This has to be the worst analogy in the history of the human race. So you’re presenting a scenario where there’s a ‘down with Peados group’ ..ok so far so good..then you’ve turned the analogy up a notch by adding a ‘and we’re all waving swastikas’ element. You’re whole analogy is so brutally flawed I don’t even know where to begin..

Where do you start with banners which have a picture of George Floyd with a halo, #BLM and a Palestinian flag? That’s not a rhetorical question, I have no idea what to make of that.

[JRM]

9 hours ago, SaintMB said:

Fuck me this forum can be a depressing reminder that there are a lot of intolerant gammons in the fan base. 

What does intolerant gammon mean? Can you help explain it for those of us who don't know. 

[whelk]

One thing I expect the booing will hasten It’s departure as no one wants be be dealing with the controversy each match. 

i actually want it to be finished with but equally those booing are probably nasty cunts. 

 

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, JRM said:

What does intolerant gammon mean? Can you help explain it for those of us who don't know. 

My take on it is what those lovely, open minded, caring, #bekind, knee bending people call any white person who doesn’t have the same opinion as them. I might be wrong though. 

[Fabrice29]

Funniest thing is all the booing is just fuelling the awareness it needs. If you don't like it, just be quiet for 8 seconds. It'll go away quicker than booing it. But people who are defensive and desperate to be outraged cant bare being quiet for 8 seconds can they. 

[JRM]

 

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

My take on it is what those lovely, open minded, caring, #bekind, knee bending people call any white person who doesn’t have the same opinion as them. I might be wrong though. 

But why gammon?  it's a tasty dish that many people enjoy for dinner of coursr but I sense from his post it's a derogatory term? 

[Baird of the land]

14 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Funniest thing is all the booing is just fuelling the awareness it needs. If you don't like it, just be quiet for 8 seconds. It'll go away quicker than booing it. But people who are defensive and desperate to be outraged cant bare being quiet for 8 seconds can they. 

That seems spurious. This silly rite has been going on for over a year, I don’t see how if people sat on their hands for a week or two they would suddenly give it up.

[captainchris]

1 hour ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Exactly this, for all the wailing that taking the knee has nothing to do with BLM, we still have Black Lives Matter pasted across our screens every match on Sky, adorning banners in stadiums, and the players even wore it on their fkin shirts! I recall one of those England players kneeling, Tyrone Mings even attended a BLM rally. But yeah nothing to do with BLM...

Seriously, the vast majority of people in this country are not racist. Replace taking the knee/black power fist with something less aggravating and drop all reference to BLM and the political baggage associated with it and most people will get on board. 

I would love to know what people think this is achieving, other than more division. I highly doubt footballers taking the knee is making actual racists change their views.

100% correct.

[kyle04]

11 minutes ago, JRM said:

 

But why gammon?  it's a tasty dish that many people enjoy for dinner of coursr but I sense from his post it's a derogatory term? 

Gammon's very nice as long as you don't over cook it, then it becomes a little dry, not like bacon which goes nice and crispy, but even that can burn if left for to long under the grill, so be careful out there.

[JRM]

10 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Gammon's very nice as long as you don't over cook it, then it becomes a little dry, not like bacon which goes nice and crispy, but even that can burn if left for to long under the grill, so be careful out there.

I've done a bit of research myself and found this:

 

"The term refers in particular to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions" 

I hope I'm wrong but it appears SaintMB is mocking the colour of a person's skin, absolutely disgusting on a sensitive  thread such as this. I'd hate to think what terms he uses for people of other skin tones. 

[Turkish]

52 minutes ago, JRM said:

 

But why gammon?  it's a tasty dish that many people enjoy for dinner of coursr but I sense from his post it's a derogatory term? 

Gammon is a sumptuous dish. personally I’m not a fan of chicken periods, aka eggs, I prefer pineapple. I’ve always been a fan of tasty tropical fruit, which seems quite apt to pair with gammon and also proves I’m not racist. I’d go as far as to say gammon and pineapple is the foodies ebony and ivory.

Edited 6 June, 2021 by Turkish

[Turkish]

46 minutes ago, JRM said:

I've done a bit of research myself and found this:

 

"The term refers in particular to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions" 

I hope I'm wrong but it appears SaintMB is mocking the colour of a person's skin, absolutely disgusting on a sensitive  thread such as this. I'd hate to think what terms he uses for people of other skin tones. 

It appears racism is alive and well on saintsweb 

[saintwbu]

Regardless of what Southgate or any commentator tries to say, this gesture entered football in support of BLM. It’s not questionable. It was on the shirts, it was in the stands, it was on the Sky score icon at the top of the screens. Then, when clubs (Palace maybe?) and others started to question the ethics behind supporting BLM the organisation, the Premier League rowed back and distanced themselves saying BLM didn’t stand for that. But at the same time, removed all branding etc from shirts and stadiums. That doesn’t suddenly mean it isn’t associated. 
 

I have no problem with kneeling staying, as long as no repercussions are taken against those who boo it. As the attendances increase, so will the booing imo. Some applaud, some boo. That’s the public outlook on this ceremony at the start of the game, both the conflicting receptions are perfectly allowed. I’ll be surprised if the gesture remains next season as more fans start to attend, but we’ll see.

Edited 6 June, 2021 by saintwbu

[supersonic]

9 hours ago, egg said:

What's socialism got to do with it? BLM is a stand alone political organisation that stands for its own beliefs. 

You tell that to the people who claim they aren't in support of it because of its socialist-Marxist links (which are so loose it's embarrassingly desperate) 

[supersonic]

6 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Are people genuinely still using the racist rebuttal to those not supporting, despite the fact they fully support other anti-racism campaigns like Kick it Out? 

So what is it about the knee that they are so outraged by then?

Or is it actually the statement Black Lives Matter? 

[kyle04]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Gammon is a sumptuous dish. personally I’m not a fan of chicken periods, aka eggs, I prefer pineapple. I’ve always been a fan of tasty tropical fruit, which seems quite apt to pair with gammon and also proves I’m not racist. I’d go as far as to say gammon and pineapple is the foodies ebony and ivory.

Each to their own but pineapple just dosen't work for me with gammon, although parma ham and melon is a perfect combination - go figure !

If Turkish et al prefer fruit with their gammon, they should be free to indulge without discrimination , but sadly the world isn't quite ready for this at the moment.

On a less serious note, I think the injustices that black Americans have endured over the past decades is a world away from the UK. Segregation , think about that alone, an inbuilt racism inherited from the slave era, entire communities imprisoned in soul-less "project" housing, routine police harrassment and murder, tens of thousands of black kids trapped in gang or drug culture with no future and no hope, their only release being death or prison. If this is the UK then yes take the knee and we'll bow our heads in shame.  A few social media wankers calling you a monkey because you missed a goal may hurt but not as much as a baton in the ribs or a bullet in the guts because you twitched while being frisked. Dear me...

[SKD]

7 hours ago, supersonic said:

So what is it about the knee that they are so outraged by then?

Or is it actually the statement Black Lives Matter? 

Does it really need a discussion / argument on another thread....

[supersonic]

17 minutes ago, SKD said:

Does it really need a discussion / argument on another thread....

Standard swerving tactics.

[SKD]

4 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Standard swerving tactics.

It’s not swerving. It’s been discussed on 2 or 3 threads, all of which then just result in arguments and insult slinging. 
 

You know full well why people have concerns with BLM and the knee (with its links to BLM). You disagree with that, that’s fine. 

[Turkish]

7 hours ago, kyle04 said:

Each to their own but pineapple just dosen't work for me with gammon, although parma ham and melon is a perfect combination - go figure !

If Turkish et al prefer fruit with their gammon, they should be free to indulge without discrimination , but sadly the world isn't quite ready for this at the moment.

On a less serious note, I think the injustices that black Americans have endured over the past decades is a world away from the UK. Segregation , think about that alone, an inbuilt racism inherited from the slave era, entire communities imprisoned in soul-less "project" housing, routine police harrassment and murder, tens of thousands of black kids trapped in gang or drug culture with no future and no hope, their only release being death or prison. If this is the UK then yes take the knee and we'll bow our heads in shame.  A few social media wankers calling you a monkey because you missed a goal may hurt but not as much as a baton in the ribs or a bullet in the guts because you twitched while being frisked. Dear me...

If you listened to some (usually white) people they’d have you believe racism in this country has never been so bad and every else needs to be doing more to stop it. They’re usually telling us this from their 98% white town where there has never been a better time to have a guardian subscription.

[Saint Garrett]

This article sums it up for me really...

https://www.football365.com/news/marxism-booing-knee-england-racism-john-nicholson

Marxism? Booing the knee is about just one ism
 

Quote

England’s progress in the upcoming Euros looks set to be a battle – a battle between Marxism and capitalism. Oh yes. Haven’t you heard? Fans are booing their own players taking a knee because they think it is allied to Black Lives Matter and they’re a Marxist organisation who stand against our way of life. As such, they’re a danger to the bourgeois lives of Middlesbrough’s citizens and their absolute right to have a food bank on every corner. So…boooooooo.

About 50% of registered USA voters support Black Lives Matter, so it looks like America is largely a Marxist country now too. Who’d have thought that?

But then who knew that these members of the proletariat were so well-read in political theory? Well it fairly caught me by surprise, I don’t mind telling you. There was me, in my naivety, thinking they were objecting to players kneeling for equality and solidarity in a thoughtless or wilfully racist manner. But no.

It was all about protesting players’ support for over-throwing the capitalist class and seizing control of the economy, which, they must believe, the England squad wants to happen as soon as possible. It was a vocal rejection of dialectical materialism and of the establishment of a worker’s state, as advocated by Gareth Southgate’s Marxist collective.
 

Of course it was. And when Gareth Southgate says, “we’re totally committed to supporting each other, supporting the team, and we feel more than ever that we are determined to take the knee throughout this tournament,” he is just trying to use it as propaganda for his socialist woke political agenda which wants to make us all transgender vegans living off alfalfa sprouts and burn candles that smell of vaginas. And they don’t want to get on their knees for that. Well who would?

No wonder Conservative MP Lee Anderson said he would boycott future England games if players persisted with taking the knee and had the support of many of his Tory colleagues. Freedom fighters against Marxist philosophy one and all and not in any way malicious reactionaries, facilitating racism through a toxic mix of stupidity and bigotry.

Now that the political and economic debate has been engaged, what else are these England fans against? We need to know where they stand on the link between capital accumulation and imperialism, as propounded by Rosa Luxembourg, or the idea that ‘the real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development’ as Albert Einstein said? Booo. F*ck off Rosa, jog on, Albert. Booooooo.

And what can we conclude they’re in favour of? What won’t they boo? The economic theories of Milton Friedman? Apartheid? Lebensraum, perhaps?

But hold on, when Gareth Southgate said these words, are they really the words of a Marxist, of someone co-opted into Marxist thinking, or are they just the words of a decent person, being decent?

“The most important thing for our players is for them to know we are totally united on it. We’re totally committed to supporting each other, supporting the team, and we feel more than ever that we are determined to take the knee throughout this tournament.”

“People are choosing to create the narrative that they want and it’s pointless us wasting our energy if people aren’t prepared to take part in change…but I think the majority of the country are.”

Let’s cut the crap. If you’re booing people taking the knee, you are the problem, you are one of the reasons they’re actually taking the knee. Whether we think it’s effective, meaningful or merely performative, it cannot now stop. The booing ensures it must continue. No retreat, no surrender.

The Marxist excuses are pathetic and transparent. We know who and what these people are. We know they’ve got friends in parliament, in government and in the press who think like they do and will egg them on. This is an old, old fight and these are old, old enemies. We know these people. Some who are just going along with it because they think it’s clever, or funny, or rebellious can be peeled off, but England has always had a hardcore of racists going back hundreds of years.

We know they don’t want to listen, we know they don’t want change and we know they have fabricated an excuse to express their intolerance of anti-racism and that they’re fine with doing that. We know they think all lives matter and we know what that means.

But they are outnumbered. What will they do when a majority of a large crowd turn their displeasure at their intolerance towards them and tell them to shut up? What will they do when TV directors focus cameras on those booing, so we know who they are. Will they still boo then?

We may find out soon enough.

 

[JRM]

I think you're right, scenes like these really got the normal "fan on the street" right behind BLM and knee taking 

 

 

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, JRM said:

I think you're right, scenes like these really got the normal "fan on the street" right behind BLM and knee taking 

 

 

it was these largely peaceful images which encouraged me to support BLM Black Lives Matter protesters and police clash again in London - YouTube

 

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

it was these largely peaceful images which encouraged me to support BLM Black Lives Matter protesters and police clash again in London - YouTube

 

You do realise that BLM and BLM aren’t the same thing though, right? Clearly you’re an uneducated racist to even confused the two. You intolerable Gammon. 

[JustinSFC]

39 minutes ago, JRM said:

I think you're right, scenes like these really got the normal "fan on the street" right behind BLM and knee taking 

 

 

Not a chance that picture is real.

Probably a Photoshop mock by some far right nutter and obviously some people are scoffing it right up.

Ffs.

[SKD]

11 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Not a chance that picture is real.

Probably a Photoshop mock by some far right nutter and obviously some people are scoffing it right up.

Ffs.

Are you on a wind up? That is 100% real  😂

Assume you think this is a photoshop as well...

 

Edited 7 June, 2021 by SKD

[JustinSFC]

6 minutes ago, SKD said:

Are you on a wind up? That is 100% real  😂

Assume you think this is a photoshop as well...

 

The black guy does it aswell.

Anyway.

I'm out of this thread.

I really am. Last post.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

This article sums it up for me really...

https://www.football365.com/news/marxism-booing-knee-england-racism-john-nicholson

Marxism? Booing the knee is about just one ism
 

 

Fucking Liberal elite innit mocking the working class racists…sorry anti Marxists. 

[SKD]

9 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

The black guy does it aswell.

Anyway.

I'm out of this thread.

I really am. Last post.

Fair enough, a shame as you’ve said, as a black guy (from what I’ve seen a seeming pretty level headed one at that), I respect your opinion on the matter and I think your opinion is significantly more powerful than the white folk who are outraged on your behalf. 

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

The black guy does it aswell.

Anyway.

I'm out of this thread.

I really am. Last post.

Why do you constantly mention when you are going to not post?

[whelk]

Just now, SKD said:

Fair enough, a shame as you’ve said, as a black guy (from what I’ve seen a seeming pretty level headed one at that), I respect your opinion on the matter and I think your opinion is significantly more powerful than the white folk who are outraged on your behalf. 

Lol. You patronising fucker

[SKD]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Fucking Liberal elite innit mocking the working class racists…sorry anti Marxists. 

You laugh and mock, but the fact that there is even debate around a campaign that should have 0 debate, just goes to show how stupid it is and how stupid the FA / PL are for lapping it up. 

[Verbal]

49 minutes ago, SKD said:

You laugh and mock, but the fact that there is even debate around a campaign that should have 0 debate, just goes to show how stupid it is and how stupid the FA / PL are for lapping it up. 

Could you possibly rearrange your post into a coherent thought?  What are you saying?

[Millbrook Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Fucking Liberal elite innit mocking the working class racists…sorry anti Marxists. 

The problem with the liberal elite is that everything is black and white, mainly if you don't agree with me you must be (insert ism here).  It's about time this BLM lot did one and let the rest of us get on with getting on, instead of having those halfwits push their divisive agenda, egged on by the equally stupid, if not worse liberal elite

[Nemi]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Fucking Liberal elite innit mocking the working class racists…sorry anti Marxists. 

I heard that Ralph’s playbook was actually just a copy of Das Kapital for each player.

[East Kent Saint]

I see a conservative MP has declared that “I can’t attend MY beloved England matches if they take the knee , which is totally undermining our way of life “ what an attention seeking tosser !

BTW it is time to do something else now ready for next season . Remove gestures and get clubs to show a bit of equality in their off field appointments. Obviously based on merit.

BLM movement is born of injustice in USA , we have our own past to deal with . BLM is not Marxist just labelled so by the American right wing to denigrate it . This is not to say there could be the odd person supporting them that is an actual believer in Marxism !!!

The republican states are still in 2021 trying to change the voting laws in their states to make it more difficult for poor and coloured voters to vote while pretending they are preventing voter fraud . Even Boris is jumping on this band wagon with voter photo ID.

[Baird of the land]

9 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

I see a conservative MP has declared that “I can’t attend MY beloved England matches if they take the knee , which is totally undermining our way of life “ what an attention seeking tosser !

BTW it is time to do something else now ready for next season . Remove gestures and get clubs to show a bit of equality in their off field appointments. Obviously based on merit.

BLM movement is born of injustice in USA , we have our own past to deal with . BLM is not Marxist just labelled so by the American right wing to denigrate it . This is not to say there could be the odd person supporting them that is an actual believer in Marxism !!!

The republican states are still in 2021 trying to change the voting laws in their states to make it more difficult for poor and coloured voters to vote while pretending they are preventing voter fraud . Even Boris is jumping on this band wagon with voter photo ID.

I think that because the TV media won't even raise any probing questions of the rite it opens the door to the likes of that conservative MP to jump on the culture war angle.

I think its well past its sell by date. I query whether any alternative rite should replace. There's lots of societal human ills, so why give one a special ritual 365 days a year to one. Maybe at most have one weekend with kick it out jerseys one week a year like the poppies so it has more impact.

[supersonic]

5 hours ago, SKD said:

It’s not swerving. It’s been discussed on 2 or 3 threads, all of which then just result in arguments and insult slinging. 
 

You know full well why people have concerns with BLM and the knee (with its links to BLM). You disagree with that, that’s fine. 

I disagree with racism, and particularly ignorance towards the issues that minorities face in this country.

[supersonic]

18 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Exactly this, for all the wailing that taking the knee has nothing to do with BLM, we still have Black Lives Matter pasted across our screens every match on Sky, adorning banners in stadiums, and the players even wore it on their fkin shirts! I recall one of those England players kneeling, Tyrone Mings even attended a BLM rally. But yeah nothing to do with BLM...

Seriously, the vast majority of people in this country are not racist. Replace taking the knee/black power fist with something less aggravating and drop all reference to BLM and the political baggage associated with it and most people will get on board. 

I would love to know what people think this is achieving, other than more division. I highly doubt footballers taking the knee is making actual racists change their views.

It's not difficult to differentiate the phrase "Black Lives Matter" and a political group with a similar name.

For example, people know the difference between "Conservative" and "conservative"

People also know the Labour Ward at a hospital is nothing to do with the Labour party.

Its more a fact they don't want to differentiate, either through being naïve or ignorant...

Edited 7 June, 2021 by supersonic

[Nemi]

39 minutes ago, supersonic said:

It's not difficult to differentiate the phrase "Black Lives Matter" and a political group with a similar name.

For example, people know the difference between "Conservative" and "conservative"

People also know the Labour Ward at a hospital is nothing to do with the Labour party.

Its more a fact they don't want to differentiate, either through being naïve or ignorant...

If anything, there isn’t actually a group that has trademarked itself as Black Lives Matter.

 

As far as I understand it Black Lives Matter is the name of the movement which sets out the goals and acts as the network for the various local organisations around the world - but there isn’t an actual centralised group Black Lives Matter - everything is done by these local organisations working to the wider movement of Black Lives Matter.

Either way, taking the knee was Colin Kaepernick’s idea that was just copied by the BLM protests.

 

Edited 7 June, 2021 by Nemi

[SKD]

44 minutes ago, supersonic said:

I disagree with racism, and particularly ignorance towards the issues that minorities face in this country.

As do 99.9% of the country mate, What do you want for your groundbreaking opinion, A fucking medal? 

The difference is, some of us don’t need to bend over backwards to desperately prove we don’t have an irrational hate for minorities. Believe it or not, you can be for inclusion and against racism without having to be offended (on other people’s behalf) by absolutely everything.

For some, Black Lives Matter creates more division than it solves, is linked to violent protest and has political left wing undertones. Without going into details and throwing the thread off subject which has been done to death, we’ve clearly established that You and others don’t think their is, some do.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and has the right to boo as much as they have the right to support it. You can call names and whine however much you like, you’re not going to change peoples perspective. It’s a pointless argument. 

For me, the fact that some do find issues with it (highlighted above), would suggest that using BLM name and an act associated with BLM as a campaign is foolish and needs to go. Bring back ‘kick it out’ remove the knee removes the discussion / issues 👍🏻

[John B]

More has to be done about how to behave in society and within our sport.

 

 

 

[Fan The Flames]

So even though Southgate has said that taking the knee is a show of team unity for social justice and nothing to do with BLM, people want it banned because some people who support BLM maybe marxists. Talk about cancel culture.

[Baird of the land]

9 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

So even though Southgate has said that taking the knee is a show of team unity for social justice and nothing to do with BLM, people want it banned because some people who support BLM maybe marxists. Talk about cancel culture.

Curious how those that choose to boo could be accused of trying to ban it.

[SKD]

13 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

So even though Southgate has said that taking the knee is a show of team unity for social justice and nothing to do with BLM, people want it banned because some people who support BLM maybe marxists. Talk about cancel culture.

I mean they literally had Black Lives Matter on the back of their shirts when this all started. Is it any wonder why people associate ‘The Knee’ with Black Lives Matter? A movement which had people burning flags vandalising statues etc. in its name, by the way. 

Its really not rocket science, if they had any sense, they’d use a separate gesture that is completely unrelated to Black Lives Matter and the issue goes away. 
 

The issue is, football has backed itself into a corner. They don’t even know what they’re doing it for now it’s just seen as the thing to do. 

[Pedantic Pete]

4 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

 

The republican states are still in 2021 trying to change the voting laws in their states to make it more difficult for poor and coloured voters to vote while pretending they are preventing voter fraud . Even Boris is jumping on this band wagon with voter photo ID.

Or alternatively they are telling the truth and are trying to stop voter fraud? The problem is, if you have a chip on your shoulder, you might believe every decision or every action is someone out to get you when in reality...they probably never even considered you!

 

[Smirking_Saint]

13 minutes ago, Pedantic Pete said:

Or alternatively they are telling the truth and are trying to stop voter fraud? The problem is, if you have a chip on your shoulder, you might believe every decision or every action is someone out to get you when in reality...they probably never even considered you!

 

I think its patently obvious that the vote ID is being pushed to suppress votes to be fair

[Adman]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12326827/england-players-being-booed-for-taking-a-knee-has-sinister-undertones-says-kick-it-outs-tony-burnett
 

if you boo an anti racism demonstration, and it’s clearly been stated as that, most people will think you’re racist.