Rasiak-9- Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 ...bu-bu-but... He's English! He's from our academy! He's still young! There were other players who played worse...ri...ri...right guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Fail to clearly understand what he brings to side when the ball isn't dead. Well lets see... He can't shoot from distance He can't get himself into the penalty area He can't score He can't tackle He can't defend He has no left foot He is weak in 50-50s He has no pace He can't beat a player He can't win headers But other than that he's fan-dabbie-dozie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Never understood what he offers. Not good enough for this league, sadly. Just because he's another academy product, he seems to get talked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 He needs to do more talking on the pitch and less talking to the media. He is not living up to the hype at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Like I said before and some gave me stick for it his dead ball abilities are nowhere near as good as some like to make out. The thing with JWP is as mentioned I honestly have no idea what position he is meant to be. He can't defend, he can't dribble, he can't use skill to get past people, he can't shoot, he can't out jump people due to his size and strength. His main ability is short passing in my opinion. But to play for a PL team especially in a game like today you have to have so much more than that. We have Morgan, Vic and Davis who are the guys who will disrupt play and put out a small pass or a longer pass to get us going forward. Mane, Elia are the wingers who get forward and try and run at defences. Point being he is not a winger, he is not an defensive central midfielder, obviously not a defender. Which leaves an attacking central midfielder. He isn't a box to box guy, he isn't a marauding run with the ball and shoot guy. So what is he? That is what I am struggling to understand and what he does that makes him a starter for us. Based on his performances from the past couple of months I think its time he was given a break. We have better options on the bench and with players coming back we should look more to them. Plus I think Reed shows more potential than JWP. I would prefer him to be given the game time personally. I know that's harsh but I think it is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Still young and will improve but please don't play him with Davis again, becomes too predictable. Both need to improve in their final third passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 He was very poor today - the game passed him by. he could have come and joined us in the Itchen and watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Well lets see... He can't shoot from distance He can't get himself into the penalty area He can't score He can't tackle He can't defend He has no left foot He is weak in 50-50s He has no pace He can't beat a player He can't win headers But other than that he's fan-dabbie-dozie. Unfortunately much of this looks to be true after the past few games at least. He needs to be given a set role and work on it, I don't think he is good enough to be versatile yet. As I have said before, for you order ones, he reminds me of Neil Maddison, all promise, little substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Hello Wiggles 31. Can I refer you to post 155 (by Rasiak 9) and ask, of those 10 facets of the game listed, which, in your opinion, will JWP improve in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 22 February, 2015 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Unfortunately much of this looks to be true after the past few games at least. He needs to be given a set role and work on it, I don't think he is good enough to be versatile yet. As I have said before, for you order ones, he reminds me of Neil Maddison, all promise, little substance. Maddison did score a few goals tho and was good at arriving late with headers in box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Well lets see... He can't shoot from distance He can't get himself into the penalty area He can't score He can't tackle He can't defend He has no left foot He is weak in 50-50s He has no pace He can't beat a player He can't win headers But other than that he's fan-dabbie-dozie. Its harsh to have a go at a youngster, but sadly the above is all completely true, and has been evident for some time. Added to that he is now also failing to deliver a decent dead ball either from a corner or free kick which was to some extent his saving grace, and you really do have to wonder why he continues to be picked. He should have come off first today and moved Davis forward to his best position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Its harsh to have a go at a youngster, but sadly the above is all completely true Yeah I mean Jesus I don't want to have a go at one of our own players, especially a youngster from our academy. However, its pretty obvious to even the most ardent JWP apologists that all the factors that I've mentioned are just utterly indisputable. Despite my rather harsh, yet reluctant criticism of the lad I'm more than happy to defer to expertise and grant that our manager knows best, but I just honestly don't understand what Koeman sees in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 He's suffering from an horrific loss of form this season, but we shouldn't write him off for good. Just needs a spell with the U21s or some time on the bench to get himself right. Cause recently oh my gosh, he has been oh so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 Saints poster boy for the Southampton Way.........can't imagine Tadic and Morgan are too happy. Perhaps they were late for lunch eh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 Not sure he's suffering from a horrific loss of form as someone says. After all, most of his assists have come in recent games, though almost always against defences with ludicrously and porously high lines. What I do see is the same JWP, the same strengths and weaknesses, I've seen for several seasons. Frankly, at the moment, I'm more excited by the progress of Targett and Reed. For someone with his set of skills, he needs to look up more, take greater risks with his passes and be more committed with his movement off the ball. Instead, he wants to receive the ball like a holding midfielder, though with out many of the other qualities that go with the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toussaint Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 Unfortunately much of this looks to be true after the past few games at least. He needs to be given a set role and work on it, I don't think he is good enough to be versatile yet. As I have said before, for you order ones, he reminds me of Neil Maddison, all promise, little substance. Matthew Oakley for me. V pretty and tidy with little end product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 Matthew Oakley for me. V pretty and tidy with little end product There's another one of the same ilk yep although he could shoot a bit ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 Said it before the game yesterday that I would have started with Reed. His work rate is better than JWP & I think he would have pressed Liverpool higher up the park. That does not make JWP a poor player. Just one in need of a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 Said it before the game yesterday that I would have started with Reed. His work rate is better than JWP & I think he would have pressed Liverpool higher up the park. That does not make JWP a poor player. Just one in need of a rest. Why start with either of them really, why not start with the tried and tested DM duo and Davis. didn't understand yesterday's team selection at all, we seem to be obsessed with giving games to academy players in despite of better solutions being available. There was no need to start any of them really, we have better players and they should start. 3-5-2 was the way to go yesterday, no academy players needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 (edited) Why start with either of them really, why not start with the tried and tested DM duo and Davis. didn't understand yesterday's team selection at all, we seem to be obsessed with giving games to academy players in despite of better solutions being available. There was no need to start any of them really, we have better players and they should start. 3-5-2 was the way to go yesterday, no academy players needed. 3-5-2? With who as LWB? No need to go with 3 CBs to take care of Sterling and their limited interest in attacking. Edited 23 February, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 Why start with either of them really, why not start with the tried and tested DM duo and Davis. didn't understand yesterday's team selection at all, we seem to be obsessed with giving games to academy players in despite of better solutions being available. There was no need to start any of them really, we have better players and they should start. 3-5-2 was the way to go yesterday, no academy players needed. Funny thing was yesterday, I missed the team announcements and was looking at the team list on the big screen in the first few seconds after kick off and noted quite clearly that it included Gardos, Yoshida and Fonte, so assumed we were going 3-5-2, took me a minute or so to realise that Gardos was not on the pitch (yeah I know he's hard to miss but we were attacking), turned to my neighbour to say about 3-5-2 and looked back and screen had been changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 (edited) Why start with either of them really, why not start with the tried and tested DM duo and Davis. didn't understand yesterday's team selection at all, we seem to be obsessed with giving games to academy players in despite of better solutions being available. There was no need to start any of them really, we have better players and they should start. 3-5-2 was the way to go yesterday, no academy players needed. Who would you have played as left wing back? Schneiderlin was likely on the bench because he had only been in training for a few days and Koeman didn't want to start him. The last time Schneiderlin came back from injury a few weeks ago, he was injured again within a week. Liverpool were playing with one up front, no need for 3 centre backs against that as it leaves one with little to do. Koeman has said he likes to use 3-5-2 against teams with 2 strikers. Edited 23 February, 2015 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 3-5-2? With who as LB? No need to go with 3 CBs to take care of Sterling and their limited interest in attacking. Why would you need a LB in a 3-5-2 system ? José,Maya,Gardos with Clyne and Derjky whatsit wide, Morgan,Vic and Davis more central and Pellè and Mané in attack. That was the way to go for me cos well I don't give a toss about being late for lunch, players used to have the option, lunch or non-lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Sat in Itchen and saw Koeman giving him a lot of stick. He gave the ball away after we scored and RK was lairing up at him big time. Did it again when he gave the ball straight to their player in our box. Think it is safe to say he won't be playing next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Are JWP set pieces actually much better than the rest of the teams? This keeps getting mentioned as one of his strengths but even with JWP taking our set pieces we seem to do very little with corners and free kicks could really do with someone who can turn free kicks into goals in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Not as I saw it no, Reed wasn't moving us forward in any realistic way, neat and tidy apart from the odd stray pass but he wasn't making much impression on the game. This is true Window. People get very emotional and protective on here about players particularly younge lads but they have to be a cut above or you have to be honest and admit that actually they are not good enough at this stage.... Bringing players through is wonderful if they earn their place, they cannot however expect special treatment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Why would you need a LB in a 3-5-2 system ? José,Maya,Gardos with Clyne and Derjky whatsit wide, Morgan,Vic and Davis more central and Pellè and Mané in attack. That was the way to go for me cos well I don't give a toss about being late for lunch, players used to have the option, lunch or non-lunch. Just how has Pelle deserved to be picked in the team based on performances over the last two months....???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Are JWP set pieces actually much better than the rest of the teams? This keeps getting mentioned as one of his strengths but even with JWP taking our set pieces we seem to do very little with corners and free kicks could really do with someone who can turn free kicks into goals in the team. No they aren't. His corners are no better than most of the ones Morgan swung in last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 No they aren't. His corners are no better than most of the ones Morgan swung in last night. Was impressed with Morgan's corners actually, I liked the pace on them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosin Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 No they aren't. His corners are no better than most of the ones Morgan swung in last night. I believe they are, Dont matter how good the cross is if no body gets on the end of them, the way Prowse swings his corners in is the best we have and he is one of the best in the league, you cant blame Prowse for the team not scoring from them, that is every other players fault for not making the effort to get on the end of them. Just think of it this way, pundits and football annalists say prowse is one of the best set piece takers in the league, you say he is not, i know who i believe more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosin Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Was impressed with Morgan's corners actually, I liked the pace on them! He is good at taking corners yes i agree, but its the same as with Prowse, no one got on the end of them, That is not Morgans fault that's the teams fault. 10 corners 0 goals. that is bad for a prem team. Stoke would have a field day with all them corners and would have scored at least 3 of them against palace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 He is good at taking corners yes i agree, but its the same as with Prowse, no one got on the end of them, That is not Morgans fault that's the teams fault. 10 corners 0 goals. that is bad for a prem team. Stoke would have a field day with all them corners and would have scored at least 3 of them against palace I agree with that. It's almost as if we need a tall, strong striker to jump up and get a decent head on them ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosin Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 I agree with that. It's almost as if we need a tall, strong striker to jump up and get a decent head on them ... Dont need to be big, Aguero has scored from more corners than are hole team has and he is normally the smallest person in the stadium and that includes the 2 - 3 year olds haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Just think of it this way, pundits and football annalists say prowse is one of the best set piece takers in the league, you say he is not, i know who i believe more. I actually said his are not better than Morgan's were, I wasnt comparing him with anyone who plays for any other club. I'm still waiting for him to fire in a free kick a la Rickie, which if the pundits and annalists are to be believed he is more than capable of doing. Given some of the clap trap these pundits talk about Southampton I;m not inclined to take their word on JWP who to my eyes starts every season really well then fades. Hopefully as he gets older and develops more that will change :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Sat in Itchen and saw Koeman giving him a lot of stick. He gave the ball away after we scored and RK was lairing up at him big time. Did it again when he gave the ball straight to their player in our box. Think it is safe to say he won't be playing next game. The first of these was just dreadfully stupid and made me question his football brain. 85 mins in the clock, stick it behind the advancing full back for Tadic to chase rather than woefully underhit a pass to his feet with the full back steaming up to pressure him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Morgan got this type of abuse when he started playing for us. I bet attitudes would soon change if Liverpool or Tottenham were after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 The first of these was just dreadfully stupid and made me question his football brain. 85 mins in the clock, stick it behind the advancing full back for Tadic to chase rather than woefully underhit a pass to his feet with the full back steaming up to pressure him. The giveaway in our box was the worst but yes, he hasn't got a clue how to run down the end of a game. Thank goodness for Long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Seems best suited to the advanced midfield role that Davis has traditionally occupied. He's clearly got ability to pick a pass. When i've seen him of late he's been getting in right positions but his shooting needs work. Adding goals to his game has to be a priority. The lack of quality setpiece takers in the team showed last night, so that's something he has deliver on when he gets further chances in the team Defensively he's got to improve. The workrate is there but the decision making isn't always and clearly wasn't last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 The giveaway in our box was the worst but yes, he hasn't got a clue how to run down the end of a game. Thank goodness for Long. In a way I don't think it was - that was total panic. He had time to think for the first one and still did something stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Seems best suited to the advanced midfield role that Davis has traditionally occupied. He's clearly got ability to pick a pass. When i've seen him of late he's been getting in right positions but his shooting needs work. Adding goals to his game has to be a priority. The lack of quality setpiece takers in the team showed last night, so that's something he has deliver on when he gets further chances in the team Defensively he's got to improve. The workrate is there but the decision making isn't always and clearly wasn't last night. Between them Davis and JWP have scored exactly 0 goals this season not really good enough for attacking midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 In a way I don't think it was - that was total panic. He had time to think for the first one and still did something stupid. Yes, you have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Seems best suited to the advanced midfield role that Davis has traditionally occupied. He's clearly got ability to pick a pass. When i've seen him of late he's been getting in right positions but his shooting needs work. Adding goals to his game has to be a priority. The lack of quality setpiece takers in the team showed last night, so that's something he has deliver on when he gets further chances in the team Defensively he's got to improve. The workrate is there but the decision making isn't always and clearly wasn't last night. Disagree (respectfully!). For me we saw again last night that he is better coming on to the ball. And he will score goals in that way imo. Currently that means when we go 442 it is better for him. In time I think he will slot in to the Morgan roll and be spraying passes left right and centre. And before people start saying he's too lightweight for the holding roll, just remember the Morgan of 5 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 We all might criticise JWP but if it were not for him we may well not have scored last night - he saw the opening and hit the ball well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 We all might criticise JWP but if it were not for him we may well not have scored last night - he saw the opening and hit the ball well. You put one too many words in that sentence. If he had done what you said he would have scored. Because he didn't Mane got the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Schneiderlin spent quite a few seasons improving too and took ages to score. Scored in his second season with us. Why do people insist on comparing JWP with Schneiderlin. It is a ridiculous comparison. One is one of the best defensive midfielders in the league who scores a few goals, the other is an attacking midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 It wasn't that clean a strike, but we scored because he hit the target. Yes the keeper made a mess of it, but given how many Saints players have failed miserably to hit the target, I'm just glad JWP did. So am I, but please don't try an pretend he hit the ball well, it was a very poor attempt, which if Speroni had saved as he should have done we would all be saying that it was typical of our inability to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 He got himself into a very good position and hit the target which led a goal which in turn led to us getting 3 points. What exactly is the problem here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 He got himself into a very good position and hit the target which led a goal which in turn led to us getting 3 points. What exactly is the problem here? Part of the problem is that in his 15 minutes on the pitch he also gave the ball away three times, two of which could easily have resulted in CP goals. He was also stood up twice by Punch resulting in dangerous crosses late in the game. Credit though to him for combining with Mane for such a crucial goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 I cant get my head around why we have to focus on what mistakes our players make. We have had an awesome season, why cant we get behind them ?They have all played their part on what has been an amazing season. Lighten up guys and enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 March, 2015 Share Posted 4 March, 2015 Part of the problem is that in his 15 minutes on the pitch he also gave the ball away three times, two of which could easily have resulted in CP goals. He was also stood up twice by Punch resulting in dangerous crosses late in the game. Credit though to him for combining with Mane for such a crucial goal. Isnt that the point though? He made errors and I am sure others players did too which COULD have led to goals against but didn't. But his movement and shot led to the winning goal. We have been screaming for players to shot. He did and still gets slagged off because it was a "poor" shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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