Saint Benali Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 What's that got to do with it exactly? Do set pieces only count if you score from them? If you want to criticise JWP, go for it, but to criticise his set pieces is absolutely ludicrous and up there with the most stupid things I've seen posted on this site. Set pieces and being specific free kicks are an important part of football no? If we don't create goals from them or create chances from them wouldn't you say that is an area that can be improved on? It isn't ludicrous to point that out. It is stupid to think they are fine as they are. When we are chasing a game in the dying minutes and we get a free kick just outside the box. JWP steps up to take it. Do you have the same belief and confidence in him to score in the way we used to with other players i.e Lambert? Yeah didn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 Forgive me, but I'm utterly speechless at this debate. Are people actually saying that they have a problem with JWP's set pieces? Is that actually happening? My gripe with him is around his lack of imposing himself on games, not strong enough - but he's absolutely pivotal when it comes to delivery. He is the most likely to score form a direct free kick from the edge of the area, but you also need to take account of the fact that we don't really win that many outside the box as we used to. He's not far away from scoring a stunner from a direct free kick if we get one again. His technique is spot on and takes as good a set piece as I've seen for a good while. Beats Lallana's fluffy floaty efforts. His delivery from deep free kicks and corners are second to none, some of the best deliveries in the PL. He has a decent haul of assists this year, most of which have come from set pieces. At the end of the day, we sit here in February in third position of the EPL. I honestly don't think there's a great deal to moan about or be unhappy about. So why feel the need to focus on a non-issue such as JWP's free kicks is beyond me. Enjoy the position we're in and live the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 At the end of the day, we sit here in February in third position of the EPL I honestly don't think there's a great deal to moan about or be unhappy about. So why so feel the need to focus on a non-issue such as JWP's free kicks is beyond me. Enjoy the position we're in and live the moment. I am not moaning, far from it. I am highlighting one of the areas I believe we can improve upon. JWP has a great cross on him when he has the ball in play. I don't think he has as good a cross from set pieces. Or at shooting. That is my opinion. Does that mean I think JWP is not capable of improving on that? Of course not, he has the potential to do that very well. But if we had a specialist in the team or if Lambert was still here I don't think people would complain that JWP was not taking the free kicks. As I said personally I would let someone else take the free kicks that are just outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 I am not moaning, far from it. I am highlighting one of the areas I believe we can improve upon. JWP has a great cross on him when he has the ball in play. I don't think he has as good a cross from set pieces. Or at shooting. That is my opinion. Does that mean I think JWP is not capable of improving on that? Of course not, he has the potential to do that very well. But if we had a specialist in the team or if Lambert was still here I don't think people would complain that JWP was not taking the free kicks. As I said personally I would let someone else take the free kicks that are just outside the box. I can remember him taking maybe three or four within Lambert range all season (remember how long he was out injured?). Even the world's best can't score more than about one in twenty, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 Fortunately Mr Koeman knows a Little bit more about football than The critical posters on this thread. JWP is a wonderful football player and we're lucky to have him. I'll be the first to say that whilst I'm critical of him and don't think he'll make it, I'm happy to defer to the opinions of messrs Adkins, Pochettino and Koeman; all three of whom are very qualified football men from very different backgrounds who nevertheless all clearly saw something impressive in JWP. I just haven't heard an argument against any of the points I've made. Don't get me wrong I think he's a good technical player, just not good enough of a technical player to overcome his physical handicaps (weak/slow etc.) enough to be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 I'll be the first to say that whilst I'm critical of him and don't think he'll make it, I'm happy to defer to the opinions of messrs Adkins, Pochettino and Koeman; all three of whom are very qualified football men from very different backgrounds who nevertheless all clearly saw something impressive in JWP. I just haven't heard an argument against any of the points I've made. Don't get me wrong I think he's a good technical player, just not good enough of a technical player to overcome his physical handicaps (weak/slow etc.) enough to be effective. Jack Colback is neither quick or strong, but he's a Premier League-standard midfielder. Point being, someone of comparable physical frame found himself in an England squad. As for the criticism of his set-piece delivery above, the mind boggles - he near as damn it had a set-piece assist on Saturday, and I can recall his assist against Crystal Palace (Alderweireld's goal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 I just haven't heard an argument against any of the points I've made. I suspect you're not listening, Rasiak-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 Will score against WHU on Wednesday .........trust me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 I'll be the first to say that whilst I'm critical of him and don't think he'll make it, I'm happy to defer to the opinions of messrs Adkins, Pochettino and Koeman; all three of whom are very qualified football men from very different backgrounds who nevertheless all clearly saw something impressive in JWP. I just haven't heard an argument against any of the points I've made. Don't get me wrong I think he's a good technical player, just not good enough of a technical player to overcome his physical handicaps (weak/slow etc.) enough to be effective. What is your definition of "making it"? At the age of 20 he is regularly playing for a team 3rd in the Premier League, has been captaining England under 21's, is probably on the verge of a senior call-up and despite missing a number of weeks through injury has a lot of assists this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 I think he's holding out for the Balloon Door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 I think that is a bit harsh. JWP takes our free kicks and has yet to score. He will probably be replaced if he doesn't score within the next 6. lambert got what? 2 in 2 seasons in the league from free kicks. and he barely missed a game and took all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 February, 2015 Share Posted 8 February, 2015 (edited) this season in the league, JWP has played 14 games, has 6 assists, 0 goals... that compares to............. David Silva, 18 Games, 2 goals, 2 assists Erikson, 24 games, 9 goals, 1 assist Oscar, 20 games, 6 goals, 7 assists Wilshere, 14 games, 1 goal, 1 assist Di Maria, 15 games, 3 goals, 3 assists Sigurdson, 21 games, 4 goals, 8 assists Downing, 22 games, 5 goals, 7 assists Coutinho, 21 games, 2 goals, 4 assists there are players who play for chelsea and have the ball far more in attacking positions, there is a £60m player and world cup/european cup winner up there all more established than JWP in the premier league He is doing just fine Edited 8 February, 2015 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Jack Colback is neither quick or strong, but he's a Premier League-standard midfielder. Point being, someone of comparable physical frame found himself in an England squad. As for the criticism of his set-piece delivery above, the mind boggles - he near as damn it had a set-piece assist on Saturday, and I can recall his assist against Crystal Palace (Alderweireld's goal). *sigh* Alright man. Hope you're right. I suspect you're not listening, Rasiak-9 Little world of advice my friend; when people disagree with you, always try and avoid the temptation to dismiss the fact that you disagree with them as being down to them 'just not listening'. It entails the presumption that you're invariably right and you'll learn a lot more in life if you can successfully battle again that. Best of luck fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 this season in the league, JWP has played 14 games, has 6 assists, 0 goals... that compares to............. David Silva, 18 Games, 2 goals, 2 assists Erikson, 24 games, 9 goals, 1 assist Oscar, 20 games, 6 goals, 7 assists Wilshere, 14 games, 1 goal, 1 assist Di Maria, 15 games, 3 goals, 3 assists Sigurdson, 21 games, 4 goals, 8 assists Downing, 22 games, 5 goals, 7 assists Coutinho, 21 games, 2 goals, 4 assists there are players who play for chelsea and have the ball far more in attacking positions, there is a £60m player and world cup/european cup winner up there all more established than JWP in the premier league He is doing just fine Yes, but of that list, how many of them take all/majority corners and free kicks like our future England Captain. I can only remember the one/one with Mane resulting in an assist from open play. The other feature about that list is all of those players have various skills and qualities JWP doesn't - either athleticism, interceptions, tackling, driving forward with the ball, aerial ability, taking on and beating a man etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I suspect you're not listening, Rasiak-9 Little world of advice my friend; when people disagree with you, always try and avoid the temptation to dismiss the fact that you disagree with them as being down to them 'just not listening'. It entails the presumption that you're invariably right and you'll learn a lot more in life if you can successfully battle again that. Best of luck fella. I think we have a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 (edited) Yes, but of that list, how many of them take all/majority corners and free kicks like our future England Captain. I can only remember the one/one with Mane resulting in an assist from open play. The other feature about that list is all of those players have various skills and qualities JWP doesn't - either athleticism, interceptions, tackling, driving forward with the ball, aerial ability, taking on and beating a man etc. Silva, downing, erikson, maybe di Maria? There is a reason why the last 3 managers seem to pick him majority of the time despite being a teenager for nearly all of that period. And he is the U21 captain. He also set up Elia for his first in newcastle, didn't he? Edited 9 February, 2015 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintadjg Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I can't believe some are criticising J'S set pieces. He's widely regarded as one of if not the the best deliverer of a dead ball in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Little world of advice my friend; when people disagree with you, always try and avoid the temptation to dismiss the fact that you disagree with them as being down to them 'just not listening'. It entails the presumption that you're invariably right and you'll learn a lot more in life if you can successfully battle again that. Best of luck fella. It's about time someone put Bearsy in his place. His arrogant postings are the bane of this forum. I often wonder why the moderators haven't banned him for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I know where you're coming from Redslo, but in this case I am Entirely Innocent! Rasiak mistook my meaning entirely! I was not arguing against his opinion, I was objecting to his extraordinary claim that no-one else has! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 It's about time someone put Bearsy in his place. His arrogant postings are the bane of this forum. I often wonder why the moderators haven't banned him for life. +1. Down with the Bear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I blame the stupid pap avatar, no-one objected to my arrogant opinions when they were accompanied by the happy face of a cartoon bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewYorkSaint Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I back the bear, bringer of smiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 (edited) Silva, downing, erikson, maybe di Maria? There is a reason why the last 3 managers seem to pick him majority of the time despite being a teenager for nearly all of that period. And he is the U21 captain. He also set up Elia for his first in newcastle, didn't he? He certainly did. The key word in Austsaint's post is "remember" - people make a habit of forming an opinion based on their memory, rather than the facts (as I am often guilty of, no doubt). He has 6 assists (in spite of missing a large portion of the season)...and yet people seem to be claiming that he doesn't assist from set-pieces or open-play :S Edited 9 February, 2015 by Donatello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 (edited) Silva, downing, erikson, maybe di Maria? There is a reason why the last 3 managers seem to pick him majority of the time despite being a teenager for nearly all of that period. And he is the U21 captain. He also set up Elia for his first in newcastle, didn't he? When we had choices, he wasn't picked the majority of the time - under NA and MP, he slowly but surely gave way to other players as the season progressed. Only under RK has he kept his place in the team; then again, we haven't really been in a situation where we've had to pick three from MS, SD, VW and JWP. Chelsea home was the exception and JWP was a sub. At other times we've accomodated all four by shunting one of them on the wing but that's before either Mané or Elia arrived. Edited 9 February, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igsey Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Would we still be having this conversation if Fonte's shot had been two inches lower at Loftus Road? JWP is a good player, maybe he needs a bit more confidence and needs to establish himself in the game more. But I haven't forgotten the games he was out and we had zero threat from corners and attacking free kicks. JWP's corners are actually threatening; I'd much rather that than Tadic hitting the first man every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I blame the stupid pap avatar, no-one objected to my arrogant opinions when they were accompanied by the happy face of a cartoon bear Only other poster I've known to steal avatars was Glasgee, Bear. He would only really take them for a day or so - probably because he knew the dangers all too well. You do not. While I am perfectly happy for you to continue using the pap brand for your posts, you should be aware that there are consequences, dude. Some people only come on here for the pictures. Think what you're doing to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 He was exceptional second half against Liverpool, from what I remember. He seemed to be operating much further forward during that 45 minute spell, picking the ball up around 30-35 yards from goal, coming in from slightly left of centre. Maybe with the platform of MS and VW behind him (I think Man U away is the only game where all three have started in the league since JWP came back from injury) he'll be able to worry a bit less about harrying for possession in midfield and focus a little more on staying close to Pelle and picking up the ball in the final third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Terrible performance today again. Had 7 set pieces and messed them all up. Two corners straight to first man and two straight over everybody and out for throw ins. Don't mean to be critical of the lad but we are making nothing from set pieces at all and that is largely down to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Typical JWP season. Starts well, gets an injury, and dips in the 2nd half to a non-player. It's just the same every year. He needs to impose himself on this side. He's got the ability, but he's just missing something and I can't quite put my finger on it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JxgrSaint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Typical JWP season. Starts well, gets an injury, and dips in the 2nd half to a non-player. It's just the same every year. He needs to impose himself on this side. He's got the ability, but he's just missing something and I can't quite put my finger on it right now. Well goals would do for a start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmonton Saint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 It is Harrison Reed I feel sorry for. Hasn't put a foot wrong when played, yet Ward-Prowse gets in week in,week out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Never a number 10 player. Hasn't got an attacking instinct. Good member of the squad, but our best spell of the season possibly was when he was out injured. Not a patch on Davis in the advanced position IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Never a number 10 player. Hasn't got an attacking instinct. Good member of the squad, but our best spell of the season possibly was when he was out injured. Not a patch on Davis in the advanced position IMO. Totally agree. We've looked worse since he came back. I don't understand why he seems to be one of the first names on the team sheet every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Never a number 10 player. Hasn't got an attacking instinct. Good member of the squad, but our best spell of the season possibly was when he was out injured. Not a patch on Davis in the advanced position IMO. JWP is not ready for top level games.. too slow and adds little to the game.. and his one clear skill at set pieces was poor today. Why Davis was not moved forward second half is a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 There is no doubt JWP offers some quality on the ball, but defensively he is a waste of space. I have yet to come across a slower player and because of that he never gets anywhere near an opponent to put them under pressure. He doesn't make tackles or interceptions. He's just so slow opponents waltz past him and around him. I know that element of the game is not the be all and end all, but his play with the ball isn't out of this world at this point, so at times it feels like we are carrying a player. I'd take Davis over him right now. JWPs time will come and hopefully he will keep improving, but with all our midfielders fit he is the one to miss out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Feel sorry for Reed and Davis. Davis is not a defensive midfielder, not in a million years. Reed is, has played really well, but seems to be well down in the pecking order. JWP is not a number 10, has never played well in that position, but his inclusion there seems to affect the balance of the whole team. I'm not saying JWP is a bad player though, he is just being played out of position. He is a very promising young player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Well, if he's not a number 10 player he sure as Hell isn't a holding midfielder as he is slow, weak, can't tackle and doesn't cover enough ground which leaves me scratching my head and asking again - what is his best role in the team? Some would have you believe he is a future England captain. Championship player at best for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 There is no doubt JWP offers some quality on the ball, but defensively he is a waste of space. I have yet to come across a slower player and because of that he never gets anywhere near an opponent to put them under pressure. He doesn't make tackles or interceptions. He's just so slow opponents waltz past him and around him. I know that element of the game is not the be all and end all, but his play with the ball isn't out of this world at this point, so at times it feels like we are carrying a player. I'd take Davis over him right now. JWPs time will come and hopefully he will keep improving, but with all our midfielders fit he is the one to miss out for me. Victor,Morgan,Davis, why we didn't start with that beats me, unless of course Morgan was late as well or isn't 100% but then he said he was. Koeman makes some strange decisions sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I'd forgotten he was on the pitch for a large period of the first half. Really needs to impose himself on games more. Neat 5-10 yard passes are all well and good but they aren't always what's required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Poor dead ball delivery today. Very poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 On today's evidence, Djuricic looks like the best option at AM with Schneiderlin & Wanyama behind, and Elia, Pelle, Mane up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Sorry but I don't particularly rate him, I don't really know where he should play to display his best qualities. I know they are different types of player but for me Harrison Reed adds more to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Totally agree. We've looked worse since he came back. I don't understand why he seems to be one of the first names on the team sheet every week. Saints poster boy for the Southampton Way.........can't imagine Tadic and Morgan are too happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 He's neither a defensive midfielder, neither an attacking-minded CM, nor a box-to-box...oh and he's not a creative number 10. These kind of players eventually stagnate. And so far the club has given him a lot of opportunities, and in recent weeks we've sacrificed Davis by playing him as a DM for JWP to focus on creating our attacking play, only for him to roam around ineffectively. I hope Koeman and the staff in Staplewood take note of this and try to reinvent his position, for his own sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Agreed, thought today was his poorest game too. Amazed he was not subbed at HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 It is Harrison Reed I feel sorry for. Hasn't put a foot wrong when played, yet Ward-Prowse gets in week in,week out. That'll be because Reed isnt as good as Morgan or wanyama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 He's neither a defensive midfielder, neither an attacking-minded CM, nor a box-to-box...oh and he's not a creative number 10. These kind of players eventually stagnate. And so far the club has given him a lot of opportunities, and in recent weeks we've sacrificed Davis by playing him as a DM for JWP to focus on creating our attacking play, only for him to roam around ineffectively. I hope Koeman and the staff in Staplewood take note of this and try to reinvent his position, for his own sake. You sum it up well for me with your "roam around ineffectively" description. It's not just today - take away his corners and free kicks (and they haven't been that startling, and aren't enough justification to include him) and there really isn't much of a footballer there; he just does not have the attributes of box-to-box running; evasion, trickery, interception, tackling, first touch, aerial ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I like him a lot. bit poor game today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 He's good in a midfield 3 but struggles with any other role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Not his biggest fan. Reputation preceedes him given that hes our current posterboy for the academy. Fail to clearly underdtand what he brings to side when the ball isn't dead. Can't shoot either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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