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The Death of the Tory Party and the Rebirth of the UK As We Know It (General Election 2024 Thread)

sadoldgit

By sadoldgit,
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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

…Rishi doesn’t have any more cards in the pack and the Red Wall/New Conservatives group not much to lose having been cut loose leading up to the GE. Don’t think they’ll get the 54 and the country wouldn’t allow them to hold another contest, but the bitterness could be lingering.

New Conservatives have already released a statement basically saying that they’re not going to put letters in. Almost looks like they’re getting ready for life and party realignment after a lost election, so probably just lots of leaks about Sunak being weak / a liar up to then. Could be good viewing.

 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Every time I look at that hate-filled halfwit I’m reminded of a Dahl sketch.

IMG-1730.jpg

She is one ugly hate filled bitch for sure 

Anyway my She’s gone, hopefully we won’t hear any more from her or have to read about her every thread on here. Who is Sog going to moan about all day now?

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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, The Kraken said:

New Conservatives have already released a statement basically saying that they’re not going to put letters in. Almost looks like they’re getting ready for life and party realignment after a lost election, so probably just lots of leaks about Sunak being weak / a liar up to then. Could be good viewing.

Logo with pole mounted CCTV cameras, very authoritarian, very fitting.

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pingpong

pingpong

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, The Kraken said:

 

Reform taking the racist vote, I think tories made a wrong decision prioritising a trans culture war.  They can't even attack labour on economy any more after 13yrs of fucking it up and labour moving to the centre left on economic policy.

Doomed.

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Inflation goes up: not our fault, external factors, global economy 

Inflation comes down: haven't we done a brilliant job

Don’t forget the stunning work they did reducing shoplifting figure when they closed all the shops during Covid

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, pingpong said:

Reform taking the racist vote, I think tories made a wrong decision prioritising a trans culture war.  They can't even attack labour on economy any more after 13yrs of fucking it up and labour moving to the centre left on economic policy.

Doomed.

Have they? Of all the things they’ve done, I can’t say I’ve particularly noticed this being an issue.

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Have they? Of all the things they’ve done, I can’t say I’ve particularly noticed this being an issue.

No not really although for a while they were smugly trumpeting that Sunak ‘knew what a woman was’

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted (edited)

The Rwanda plan was complete and utter bullshit from the start but it is a bit ridiculous that people can just get in a boat and land here from anywhere and we can't get rid of them and just have to let them live here when they could be anyone. I don't think it's as big a crisis as some in the media make it out to be but that fundamental unfairness is something that I think does resonate with a lot of brits. 

Edited by hypochondriac
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andypen

andypen

Posted
Posted

I think Braverman will have her Geoffrey Howe moment after PMQ's, protocol suggests Sunak will have to sit there and suck it up.

The Rwanda scheme was a ridiculous proposal anyway, even if the supreme court had ruled in favour of the govt the inevitable lemgthy appeals and the ECHR would have made it unworkable anyway.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

The Supreme Court ruling implies that there is UK Law outside of the ECHR that makes the Rwanda scheme illegal, so simply dumping the ECHR won't solve the problem - Rwanda is not deemed to be a "safe" country. Rishi is thought to be working on finding a legally acceptable alternative destination.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The Supreme Court ruling implies that there is UK Law outside of the ECHR that makes the Rwanda scheme illegal, so simply dumping the ECHR won't solve the problem - Rwanda is not deemed to be a "safe" country. Rishi is thought to be working on finding a legally acceptable alternative destination.

Maybe there wouldn't be so much opposition to it if the destination was the Seychelles (for example)? :)

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Jeremy Corbyn

Jeremy Corbyn

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

The trans issue was massive for a while. The Tories think they have a gotcha issue with it and it will come up during the campaign, so Labour has to devise a way of answering it.

Yep, this will be the Torie's main ticket at the election I suspect.  They don't really have strength in any of the main areas, they're even perceived as weak on immigration/international relations so I think they'll tone that down and go with a full blown attempt to scare middle class parents into thinking Starmer will spend his time as prime minister converting Daves to Debbies and Debbies to Daves.

Will be interesting to see what Starmer/Labour do, the Trans stuff is an absolute minefield.  

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, The Kraken said:

The Supreme a court has just unanimously decided that the Rwanda Scheme is illegal.

Nit a good week for poor old Cruella.

Some Tory fella on radio 5 this morning was bigging her up saying how she'd make a great PM and has been stitched up by Sunak. 🤣

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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The question shouldn’t be who is the worst between Brown and Sunak. Every Tory PM since Cameron has done huge and lasting damage to this country. Who is the worst from Cameron to Sunak is probably a better question.

This is a good game, my list in descending order for what it's worth.

May - tried her best to square the circle with Brexit but far too weak to hold it together.

Sunak - depite being too little to be PM, he tried to be the grown up after the manbaby was sent home, but he is too ineffective and charisma free to be a leader.

Cameron - bog standard Eton Tory PM, started the dismantling of the state and arrogantly underestimated Brexit, then bottled it.

Johnson - self obsessed, cultivated, manbaby with no solutions, who would say anything and do anything to make people like him and real problems go away.

Truss - total weirdo who enacted her sixth form fantasy political economic stratergy on a real country. Wrong person, wrong time with the wrong ideas. Only good thing she did was keep Johnson out of the limelight during the period after the Queens death.

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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Yep, this will be the Torie's main ticket at the election I suspect.  They don't really have strength in any of the main areas, they're even perceived as weak on immigration/international relations so I think they'll tone that down and go with a full blown attempt to scare middle class parents into thinking Starmer will spend his time as prime minister converting Daves to Debbies and Debbies to Daves.

Will be interesting to see what Starmer/Labour do, the Trans stuff is an absolute minefield.  

It is a minefield, that's why they have to sit down work out their position and tell their PMs what to say and stick to it. With out raking the whole trans debate up but they can't stay sitting on the fence between the two definitions of what a women is, they tie themselves in knots and look ridiculous. Surley they have a decent enough team to sort themselves out on it.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The question shouldn’t be who is the worst between Brown and Sunak. Every Tory PM since Cameron has done huge and lasting damage to this country. Who is the worst from Cameron to Sunak is probably a better question.

Blair is the worst PM we've had in my lifetime by quite a way. 

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The question shouldn’t be who is the worst between Brown and Sunak. Every Tory PM since Cameron has done huge and lasting damage to this country. Who is the worst from Cameron to Sunak is probably a better question.

Tony Blair did more damage to the world than all of them since put together 

 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Yep, this will be the Torie's main ticket at the election I suspect.  They don't really have strength in any of the main areas, they're even perceived as weak on immigration/international relations so I think they'll tone that down and go with a full blown attempt to scare middle class parents into thinking Starmer will spend his time as prime minister converting Daves to Debbies and Debbies to Daves.

Will be interesting to see what Starmer/Labour do, the Trans stuff is an absolute minefield.  

It's a minefield of their own making. They certainly don't want to get into the mess that the SNP have over it. How hard is it to say that a woman is an adult female human but that in rare cases gender disphoria is a thing and they should be treated respectfully even though for legal purposes they cannot be female. Not difficult. 

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Jeremy Corbyn

Jeremy Corbyn

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's a minefield of their own making. They certainly don't want to get into the mess that the SNP have over it. How hard is it to say that a woman is an adult female human but that in rare cases gender disphoria is a thing and they should be treated respectfully even though for legal purposes they cannot be female. Not difficult. 

It's difficult for Labour because there are plenty of people within the party who disagree with the bit in bold.

That being said, the vast, vast majority of the voting population either doesn't care or is actively transphobic, so going with your approach would probably work electorally.

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andypen

andypen

Posted
Posted (edited)

The Trans issue wouldn't be such a big deal if common sense hadn't gone walkies from many instituions. When people can be cancelled, lose their jobs, be debanked and have their lives ruined because they didn't conform to the pronoun mental illness for example I'd say it has become quite an issue.

I am now identifying as a top SWF poster, and demand the respect such a position warrants.

Edited by andypen
typo
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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, andypen said:

The Trans issue wouldn't be such a big deal if common sense hadn't gone walkies from many instituions. When people can be cancelled, lose their jobs, be debanked and have their lives ruined because they didn't conform to the pronoun mental illness for example I'd say it has become quite an issue.

I am now identifying as a top SWF poster, and demand the respect such a position warrants.

I got corrected by my daughter for calling the girl in the Last of Us a girl. Apparently she is neither boy nor girl

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

It's difficult for Labour because there are plenty of people within the party who disagree with the bit in bold.

That being said, the vast, vast majority of the voting population either doesn't care or is actively transphobic, so going with your approach would probably work electorally.

Transphobic is an invented term. 

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

It is a minefield, that's why they have to sit down work out their position and tell their PMs what to say and stick to it. With out raking the whole trans debate up but they can't stay sitting on the fence between the two definitions of what a women is, they tie themselves in knots and look ridiculous. Surley they have a decent enough team to sort themselves out on it.

There is no second definition of what a woman is, that’s precisely the problem they’ve got. They’re trying to stand on principals they can neither define, explain nor identify.

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, whelk said:

I got corrected by my daughter for calling the girl in the Last of Us a girl. Apparently they are neither boy nor girl

Corrected it for you. Bella Ramsey is gender neutral. 

I get that it's tricky though. A few years back, the poet Kate Tempest came out as gender neutral and changed their name to Kae. I still struggle to remember though, having been so used to thinking of them as a she/her. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it's hard to change lifelong habits

Would be easier if we didn't have separate words for he and she like in other languages (Chinese, for example), then this wouldn't even be an issue.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Corrected it for you. Bella Ramsey is gender neutral. 

I get that it's tricky though. A few years back, the poet Kate Tempest came out as gender neutral and changed their name to Kae. I still struggle to remember though, having been so used to thinking of them as a she/her. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it's hard to change lifelong habits

Would be easier if we didn't have separate words for he and she like in other languages (Chinese, for example), then this wouldn't even be an issue.

Or we just say she because she's a girl and we shouldn't play along with someones fantasy or mental health issues. 

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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
Just now, Lighthouse said:

There is no second definition of what a woman is, that’s precisely the problem they’ve got. They’re trying to stand on principals they can neither define, explain nor identify.

I didn't want to open it all up again, but you can be a women (or man) by birth or you can legally have your gender reassigned. That is the legal position in this country. They are two different things and the problems arise when people try to fudge it to mean the same thing.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I didn't want to open it all up again, but you can be a women (or man) by birth or you can legally have your gender reassigned. That is the legal position in this country. They are two different things and the problems arise when people try to fudge it to mean the same thing.

None of what you said changes the only definition of what a woman is. 

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Or we just say she because she's a girl and we shouldn't play along with someones fantasy or mental health issues. 

Congratulations on demonstrating spectacular ignorance by dismissing both gender dysphoria and mental illness all in the space of one sentence.

No wonder you consider transphobia to be an invented term. Saves you from having to see it in yourself.

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