Israel

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

I rest my case.

If that means you’ll STFU about the Jews, I’m all for it. 

[Turkish]

7 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I rest my case.

Given that I have been picked up on my use of language, spending time trying to research a topic is now proof that I am anti-Semitic.

🙄

If you’re not anti-Semitic you’re doing a very good impression of someone who is 

[egg]

11 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

the continued fascination/hatred of Israel, given everything else that goes on in the world, is just weird.

So the west shouldn't give a monkeys because there's worse elsewhere?! Not an outlook I can subscribe to.

Today we've had the UN criticise Israel for using 'advanced military weaponry' on a Palestinian refugee camp. You won't find a peep on the BBC  They've been told by the UN to stop land grabbing from the Palestinians and building settlements but ignore it.  It's the desire in the west to gloss over the Israeli government's actions that's just weird.

Sending tanks, soldiers and helicopter gunships into a refugee camp, and killing kids and others in the process, just to arrest 2 people is plain mental. 

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

So the west shouldn't give a monkeys because there's worse elsewhere?! Not an outlook I can subscribe to.

Today we've had the UN criticise Israel for using 'advanced military weaponry' on a Palestinian refugee camp. You won't find a peep on the BBC  They've been told by the UN to stop land grabbing from the Palestinians and building settlements but ignore it.  It's the desire in the west to gloss over the Israeli government's actions that's just weird.

Sending tanks, soldiers and helicopter gunships into a refugee camp, and killing kids and others in the process, just to arrest 2 people is plain mental. 

in 2022 the UN passed more resolutions against Israel than against the rest of the World combined.

[aintforever]

21 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

the continued fascination/hatred of Israel, given everything else that goes on in the world, is just weird.

Yeah much more important things to worry about, like chicks with dicks.  

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

Yeah much more important things to worry about, like chicks with dicks.  

Good point.  It is either Israel or he/shes.....that is it. Nothing else, kapeesh, the end, all of it

[aintforever]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Good point.  It is either Israel or he/shes.....that is it. Nothing else, kapeesh, the end, all of it

All the crap posted on here about pointless subjects like transsexuals or pronouns and stuff, yet you think it’s weird to discuss a genuinely serious issue. Just a bit odd that’s all.

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

All the crap posted on here about pointless subjects like transsexuals or pronouns and stuff, yet you think it’s weird to discuss a genuinely serious issue. Just a bit odd that’s all.

Everything is odd to you.

[sadoldgit]

Are those who support the boycott of goods anti-Semitic?

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/24/tory-mps-michael-gove-bill-ban-public-bodies-israel-boycott

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Are those who support the boycott of goods anti-Semitic?

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/24/tory-mps-michael-gove-bill-ban-public-bodies-israel-boycott

Probably. Do the same people boycott Chinese goods due to oppression of Uyghurs?

[badgerx16]

19 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Are those who support the boycott of goods anti-Semitic?

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/24/tory-mps-michael-gove-bill-ban-public-bodies-israel-boycott

No, but they are anti the Israeli Government and it's policies towards and actions against Palestinians.

Edited 24 June, 2023 by badgerx16

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

Probably. Do the same people boycott Chinese goods due to oppression of Uyghurs?

I have no idea but perhaps look at their reasoning before passing judgement?

The article below makes the point I was trying to make much better than I did.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/6/22/weaponisation-of-anti-semitism-is-bad-for-palestinians-and-jews

The film that was initially pulled defending Corbyn of claims that he is antisemitic was eventually shown in the Speaker’s Form tent at Glastonbury. Surprise, surprise, the world has carried on spinning

 

Edited 24 June, 2023 by sadoldgit
Added text

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Are those who support the boycott of goods anti-Semitic?

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/24/tory-mps-michael-gove-bill-ban-public-bodies-israel-boycott

You still don’t get it do you?

If people were boycotting Jewish goods, then yes they would be. If they’re boycotting Israeli goods, then they're not.

You seem to have a real problem with diversity & the eclectic melting pot which is the modern world. Non white in the UK means immigrant, Jew means Israeli. Instead of researching whether the Jews are a race, perhaps you’d have been better off taking a diversity course that day. 

Edited 24 June, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[Lord Duckhunter]

Looks like Soggy only rested his case for 24 hours. Luckily, he’s a tight arse and won’t cough up a fiver, so he’ll be re resting it again soon. 

[Weston Super Saint]

40 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The article below makes the point I was trying to make much better than I did.

 

The ape creatures of the Indus make the point much better than you do, Baldrick.

[whelk]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I have no idea but perhaps look at their reasoning before passing judgement?

The article below makes the point I was trying to make much better than I did.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/6/22/weaponisation-of-anti-semitism-is-bad-for-palestinians-and-jews

The film that was initially pulled defending Corbyn of claims that he is antisemitic was eventually shown in the Speaker’s Form tent at Glastonbury. Surprise, surprise, the world has carried on spinning

 

My point is the left have some obsessions with Israel and I think it is from them believing they are on the righteous side against the power. Fuck all to do with any altruism, or caring about Palestinians. Hence why the left can be always found in certain areas. Never campaigning against China. Why is that?

[sadoldgit]

39 minutes ago, whelk said:

My point is the left have some obsessions with Israel and I think it is from them believing they are on the righteous side against the power. Fuck all to do with any altruism, or caring about Palestinians. Hence why the left can be always found in certain areas. Never campaigning against China. Why is that?

I have no idea but as we know, different things rattle different people’s cages. The Tory’s seem to have a similar issue with Islamophobia. I can’t speak for the “Left” but I do think that, with Corbyn, he does genuinely care about the plight of the Palestinians.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

The Tory’s seem to have a similar issue with Islamophobia. 

So you’re saying that the Tories are Islamophobic & the Labour Party are Anti-Semitic? 
 

 

[farawaysaint]

Dear God what is going on in this thread? 

The actions of the Israeli state are unconscionable, I don't really even think it is an item which can be debated. 

[sadoldgit]

No mention of this yet. I will probably be labelled as anti semitic again but at least that puts me in the same position as the UN Secretary General.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/un-israel-excessive-force-attack-palestine-jenin#:~:text=The UN secretary general%2C António,disrupted water and electricity networks.

[Lord Duckhunter]

52 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

No mention of this yet. I will probably be labelled as anti semitic again but at least that puts me in the same position as the UN Secretary General.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/un-israel-excessive-force-attack-palestine-jenin#:~:text=The UN secretary general%2C António,disrupted water and electricity networks.

You still don’t get it do you? 
 

Dear god 🤡

[whelk]

Feels like this Palestinian attack will be met with force. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

We’re actually here now. Sat on a beach 20 miles north of tel Aviv. Few helicopters flying overhead & armed army guys on the cliff tops (but they’ve been here everyday). The lifeguards keep making announcements in Hewbrew, bizarrely you’re not allowed to swim in the sea (you can paddle) or on a sun bed but other than that it’s normal. It’s quiet but it’s the sabbath & Jews aren’t allowed to pursue leisure activities on Sabbath. Last Sat was pretty quiet down here as well. We didn’t know anything about the bombs until our son messaged us. Israelis just taking it in their stride. Flying out Monday so fingers crossed. 

 

 

Edited 7 October, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Israelis just taking it in their stride

I am no expert but seems unprecedented and Israel putting all their citizens on war footing.:

[The Kraken]

Yeah I think I’d be looking to get the fuck out if there tbf.

[whelk]

Show restraint like the gingers

[Lord Duckhunter]

Found out the reason for the non swimming rule. Just spoke to lifeguard walking along beach. She said they don’t want to be rounding up people out of the sea if the sirens go off & we have to get to the shelter. She said it’ll take too long. Flights still coming in and out of airport so snap dragon is talking of getting out of dodge a day earlier if possible. We’ve been here 10 days so 1 day isn’t really an issue. 

[sadoldgit]

There were reports recently of a major peace deal in the offing but that seems to be have been wide of the mark. It is only going to escalate now. Grim news.

Edited 7 October, 2023 by sadoldgit

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Found out the reason for the non swimming rule. Just spoke to lifeguard walking along beach. She said they don’t want to be rounding up people out of the sea if the sirens go off & we have to get to the shelter. She said it’ll take too long. Flights still coming in and out of airport so snap dragon is talking of getting out of dodge a day earlier if possible. We’ve been here 10 days so 1 day isn’t really an issue. 

Will you do the angry/sad Daily Mail face if you are stuck over there, and claim the UK has abandoned you etc?

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Show restraint like the gingers

No they are not. Only Israel has an air force.

The sad situation is that both sides commit atrocities, whilst there is probably never going to be a lasting peace - a volatile mix of religion, politics, and foreign interests will keep the fires stoked for years if not decades to come.

Yet another "Western" policy failure in the Middle East. ( For the hard of thinking, a reference to the process of the foundation of the state of Israel ).

 

Edited 7 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[egg]

5 hours ago, whelk said:

I am no expert but seems unprecedented and Israel putting all their citizens on war footing.:

Hamas can't get any further than they've got, and their incursion will be squashed quickly enough. It's no war - the issue is how much punishment Israel choose to give Gaza/the West Bank, and whether they decide to occupy Gaza. 

[badgerx16]

Hundreds of people have died, hundreds more will follow, the problem will not be resolved.

 

Rinse and repeat.

[Raging Bull]

To disable the iron dome in the way it was can only be done by America or Russia. 

They somehow jammed some of the frequencies and used drones with precision  

And considering the Russians have been training Hamas (which translates to “violence”), it can only be them. 
 

 

[badgerx16]

Joe Biden says "Jill and I... grieve for those who've lost their loved ones,", do you think that applies to both sides ?

[buctootim]

On 21/06/2023 at 10:49, Dman said:

Politics aside.. Its a beautiful place - highly recommend visiting if you get a chance.

Really? you talking about the main cities or the countryside? Not trying to be awkward, but everything I see on tv makes it look like an arid landfill. 

[buctootim]

32 minutes ago, Raging Bull said:

To disable the iron dome in the way it was can only be done by America or Russia. 

They somehow jammed some of the frequencies and used drones with precision  

And considering the Russians have been training Hamas (which translates to “violence”), it can only be them. 
 

 

Also using drones to drop bombs on tanks. Has got Russian fingerprints all over it. Saw one post which reckoned it was an attempt by Russia to stop proposed Israeli export of Iron Dome to Ukraine by creating a need for it at home.  

Edited 7 October, 2023 by buctootim

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Also using drones to drop bombs on tanks. Has got Russian fingerprints all over it. Saw one post which reckoned it was an attempt by Russia to stop proposed Israeli export of Iron Dome to Ukraine by creating a need for it at home.  

They'll never in a million years do that, either weaken their own air defences or give a piece of kit as sophistocated as ID to Ukraine. They're terrified of it falling into Iranian hands, which it inevitably will if Russia capture one.

[buctootim]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

They'll never in a million years do that, either weaken their own air defences or give a piece of kit as sophistocated as ID to Ukraine. They're terrified of it falling into Iranian hands, which it inevitably will if Russia capture one.

Actually tbf the article didnt actually specify Iron Dome, just air defences. 

Edited 7 October, 2023 by buctootim

[Lord Duckhunter]

44 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Really? you talking about the main cities or the countryside? Not trying to be awkward, but everything I see on tv makes it look like an arid landfill. 

The places we’ve visited have been beautiful. Can’t speak for where I haven’t been, but sea of Galilee pretty stunning, the Dead Sea is unique & the beaches are fantastic. Tel Aviv is a modern cosmopolitan city, really vibrant. 
 

We’ve had our first taste of trouble tonight, after spending all day on the beach. We were on a bus to the north of Tel Aviv & the siren sounded. Pretty frighting when it stopped & everyone legged it to the shelter, we just followed along. Stayed in there about 20 mins and then let out, so must have been false alarm. The host of the place we’re staying has advised us to book a flexible ticket on El Al as it looks like foreign airlines are cancelling flights. He said El Al & the US airlines are the best bet when it comes to getting out. If our flight is leaving we can cancel this option. 

He also said he’d lived in Israel since ‘79 and this is the worst trouble he’s known. He said there’s some horrific things going on & the Israeli’s will retaliate in a brutal & murderous way. He said this with an air of resignation, rather than agreement or revenge. Such a shame because the Jewish people we’ve met, particularly the young ones, have been tolerant, modern & extremely kind. 

[buctootim]

16 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The places we’ve visited have been beautiful. Can’t speak for where I haven’t been, but sea of Galilee pretty stunning, the Dead Sea is unique & the beaches are fantastic. Tel Aviv is a modern cosmopolitan city, really vibrant. 
 

We’ve had our first taste of trouble tonight, after spending all day on the beach. We were on a bus to the north of Tel Aviv & the siren sounded. Pretty frighting when it stopped & everyone legged it to the shelter, we just followed along. Stayed in there about 20 mins and then let out, so must have been false alarm. The host of the place we’re staying has advised us to book a flexible ticket on El Al as it looks like foreign airlines are cancelling flights. He said El Al & the US airlines are the best bet when it comes to getting out. If our flight is leaving we can cancel this option. 

He also said he’d lived in Israel since ‘79 and this is the worst trouble he’s known. He said there’s some horrific things going on & the Israeli’s will retaliate in a brutal & murderous way. He said this with an air of resignation, rather than agreement or revenge. Such a shame because the Jewish people we’ve met, particularly the young ones, have been tolerant, modern & extremely kind. 

Fair enough. I suppose I just prefer green places. I wasnt that taken with the Canaries either. 

I don't think anyone knows what the answer is for Israel and the Palestinians. It hasn't really imroved or even changed in 80 years. All I know is that left and right governments, confrontation and conciliation have all failed. 

[whelk]

Israel will annihilate them. Hamas cunts deserve all they get. 

[Sheaf Saint]

4 hours ago, whelk said:

Israel will annihilate them. Hamas cunts deserve all they get. 

Perhaps they do. Unfortunately, given previous Israeli form, many more undeserving Palestinian civilians will also bear the brunt of it. And all it will do is create martyrs and the whole sorry cycle of violence and bloodshed will continue.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Perhaps they do. Unfortunately, given previous Israeli form, many more undeserving Palestinian civilians will also bear the brunt of it. And all it will do is create martyrs and the whole sorry cycle of violence and bloodshed will continue.

Indeed violence begets violence. But killing 500 Israelis is unprecedented and the Israeli government is the most right wing it has ever been. The call for vengeance and then some will not be met with any restraint . They won’t give a fuck how many innocents they kill to take out Hamas targets

Also considering the sort of shit Iranian government put out about ridding the world of Zionists which many Arabs support why would you have anything other then a ‘do you want some then?’ approach?

Edited 8 October, 2023 by whelk

[Sheaf Saint]

9 hours ago, whelk said:

Indeed violence begets violence. But killing 500 Israelis is unprecedented and the Israeli government is the most right wing it has ever been. The call for vengeance and then some will not be met with any restraint . They won’t give a fuck how many innocents they kill to take out Hamas targets

Also considering the sort of shit Iranian government put out about ridding the world of Zionists which many Arabs support why would you have anything other then a ‘do you want some then?’ approach?

So it begins...

[egg]

43 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

So it begins...

It began Saturday. The disgraceful Hamas actions have given the Israeli government the opportunity to flatten Gaza and force it's people out. They've been told to leave (go where?) and Netanyahu has said he'll turn Gaza into an 'isolated desert' of 'rubble' (not that you'll find the BBC reporting that). 

[badgerx16]

53 minutes ago, egg said:

It began Saturday. The disgraceful Hamas actions have given the Israeli government the opportunity to flatten Gaza and force it's people out. They've been told to leave (go where?) and Netanyahu has said he'll turn Gaza into an 'isolated desert' of 'rubble' (not that you'll find the BBC reporting that). 

And the young displaced teenagers provide a fertile recruiting ground for the next wave of attacks on Israel.

All the time the US supports Israel and Iran espouse it's destruction the cycle will continue.

[Dman]

On 07/10/2023 at 20:36, buctootim said:

Really? you talking about the main cities or the countryside? Not trying to be awkward, but everything I see on tv makes it look like an arid landfill. 

Tel Aviv & Jerusalem. the 'country side' is a bit middle east desert, from what I saw of it. 

[Tamesaint]

On 07/10/2023 at 21:37, Lord Duckhunter said:

The places we’ve visited have been beautiful. Can’t speak for where I haven’t been, but sea of Galilee pretty stunning, the Dead Sea is unique & the beaches are fantastic. Tel Aviv is a modern cosmopolitan city, really vibrant. 
 

We’ve had our first taste of trouble tonight, after spending all day on the beach. We were on a bus to the north of Tel Aviv & the siren sounded. Pretty frighting when it stopped & everyone legged it to the shelter, we just followed along. Stayed in there about 20 mins and then let out, so must have been false alarm. The host of the place we’re staying has advised us to book a flexible ticket on El Al as it looks like foreign airlines are cancelling flights. He said El Al & the US airlines are the best bet when it comes to getting out. If our flight is leaving we can cancel this option. 

He also said he’d lived in Israel since ‘79 and this is the worst trouble he’s known. He said there’s some horrific things going on & the Israeli’s will retaliate in a brutal & murderous way. He said this with an air of resignation, rather than agreement or revenge. Such a shame because the Jewish people we’ve met, particularly the young ones, have been tolerant, modern & extremely kind. 

Are you out yet Duckie???

[OldNick]

Having grown up in a society that has been controlled by a pro Israel media I have always given them sympathy. Watching the terror of plane hijacks by the PLO when I was young also made me despise the PLO. As time has gone on and seen how the Israelis land grabbed with settlements and made the life of the Palestinians pretty dire I have softened to their cause.

It is a disaster for the world and it will always be the tinderbox between them and Iran. Both having nuclear weapons cannot be healthy. The US may be looking to use this as an excuse to challenge Iran, whose people in the main just want to get on with a happy life

[Sheaf Saint]

29 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Having grown up in a society that has been controlled by a pro Israel media I have always given them sympathy. Watching the terror of plane hijacks by the PLO when I was young also made me despise the PLO. As time has gone on and seen how the Israelis land grabbed with settlements and made the life of the Palestinians pretty dire I have softened to their cause.

I don't think you're alone in this Nick. Some of the atrocities carried out against the Palestinian people by successive Israeli governments are beyond the pale. It's little wonder there is so much hatred towards them from Gaza and the West Bank. For years I watched TV reports about it where Israeli government officials were decrying Palestinian actions and making out like they were completely unprovoked, but as I got older I realised that they are basically the equivalent of a school bully who has been picking on the same weedy little kid for years on end that goes running to the teacher complaining it's not fair when he finally fights back.

BTW, I'm not in any way condoning Hamas' latest escalation. They've gone way too far this time and have started an all out war that they can't win, which will only cause a great deal more suffering for their own people and weaken sympathy to their cause in many quarters.