Systems do not win football matches. Players do.

[Colinjb]

The one thing I am certain of, is that ever since Koeman left we have massively overcomplicated how we have been run. So sure of our intelligence in trying to do things differently that we have disappeared up our own backsides. 

Football is not a complicated game, you play your players to their strengths. Systems do not win you football matches, football players do. If you are able to match players to a system, yes, it has a chance of working. But putting players in situations and ways of working that do not suit them lead to failure and stops them reaching their potential. 

Hassenhutl had a system, we couldn't afford to sustain it with a disinterested owner and lost the players that suited it. Martin has a system (not that it has bought any actual prior success) he is making players that are not capable of making it work try it. All a system and philosophy does is tell your opponents how you are going to play. Once they adapt, we collapse..... and have done for the last 4 years. Man City/Guardiola can make it work because they have more money then god and can cherry pick players to make it work.

Until we accept that we are not that clever, we will continue to fail. 

Here ends my rant.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Pochettino was a great systems manager who got us overachieving and laid the ground for Koeman.

The fact is that if you look at our squad, it probably is playoff level. We've got too many players with big potential but who aren't ready now. Maybe our new striker will make a difference, but at the moment we've got Sulemana, Edozie, Bazunu, Charles, Alcaraz alongside some decent Championship players like Smallbone, Bednarek, Manning.

So while i'm not sure the system is helping us to overacheive, I'm not sure it's the big hindrance people think it is. We are where we are because that's the level of our players. 

[Colinjb]

23 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Pochettino was a great systems manager who got us overachieving and laid the ground for Koeman

Ground laid after the star players left. Pochettino was no idiot, he did his research very carefully before taking over, he knew our squad would suit him, he knew the technical ability was there. See how he has done at Chelsea so far, flashes of good, but square pegs in round holes.

I see talent join us and get worse. Shea Charles looked great to begin with, as he tries to adapt to Martin he gets worse. The best managers help their players get better. I cannot think of a single player, except maybe Bazunu and Edozie, who has looked like they have genuinely improved since Martin came in. 

Managers who dogmatically stick to one way of playing (Which Pochettino doesn't do..... he can adapt) stifle talent, they don't develop it.

Edited 25 October, 2023 by Colinjb

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Colinjb said:

The one thing I am certain of, is that ever since Koeman left we have massively overcomplicated how we have been run. So sure of our intelligence in trying to do things differently that we have disappeared up our own backsides. 

Football is not a complicated game, you play your players to their strengths. Systems do not win you football matches, football players do. If you are able to match players to a system, yes, it has a chance of working. But putting players in situations and ways of working that do not suit them lead to failure and stops them reaching their potential. 

Hassenhutl had a system, we couldn't afford to sustain it with a disinterested owner and lost the players that suited it. Martin has a system (not that it has bought any actual prior success) he is making players that are not capable of making it work try it. All a system and philosophy does is tell your opponents how you are going to play. Once they adapt, we collapse..... and have done for the last 4 years. Man City/Guardiola can make it work because they have more money then god and can cherry pick players to make it work.

Until we accept that we are not that clever, we will continue to fail. 

Here ends my rant.

Some good points. A system should only be a frame-work because if you insist players stick rigidly to it you run the risk of stifling creativity and off-the-cuff play. Also the team becomes too predictable and the opponents know what to expect.  We are far too invested in this possession approach so we see players get the ball with the chance to spring an attack but they play it safe. It's not working and is horrible to watch.

[Maggie May]

Are we failing or are Leicester and Ipswich having one of a kind seasons? 

[Dark Munster]

44 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Are we failing or are Leicester and Ipswich having one of a kind seasons? 

Both those two highlighted. They are not mutually exclusive.

[John B]

5 hours ago, Colinjb said:

The one thing I am certain of, is that ever since Koeman left we have massively overcomplicated how we have been run. So sure of our intelligence in trying to do things differently that we have disappeared up our own backsides. 

Football is not a complicated game, you play your players to their strengths. Systems do not win you football matches, football players do. If you are able to match players to a system, yes, it has a chance of working. But putting players in situations and ways of working that do not suit them lead to failure and stops them reaching their potential. 

Hassenhutl had a system, we couldn't afford to sustain it with a disinterested owner and lost the players that suited it. Martin has a system (not that it has bought any actual prior success) he is making players that are not capable of making it work try it. All a system and philosophy does is tell your opponents how you are going to play. Once they adapt, we collapse..... and have done for the last 4 years. Man City/Guardiola can make it work because they have more money then god and can cherry pick players to make it work.

Until we accept that we are not that clever, we will continue to fail. 

Here ends my rant.

We had better players under Koeman and better players are what we need now.

 

In the 1980s we had some top players and did pretty well but since being in the PL we have generally struggled to attract top players so results have been poor and no doubt this will conntinue

 

We do have KWP but I expect him to leave soon

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, John B said:

We had better players under Koeman and better players are what we need now.

 

In the 1980s we had some top players and did pretty well but since being in the PL we have generally struggled to attract top players so results have been poor and no doubt this will conntinue

 

We do have KWP but I expect him to leave soon

One thing that is for certain is that we cannot start selling people in January if we are serious about getting promoted. 

[Elmore Saint]

An old military adage -“all best laid plans only survive until first contact with the enemy” implying that you must adapt to the changing situation in front of you. Lego’s one-dimensional plan seems to last for 90 minutes, until someone takes ownership for the added time period. 

[egg]

14 minutes ago, Elmore Saint said:

An old military adage -“all best laid plans only survive until first contact with the enemy” implying that you must adapt to the changing situation in front of you. Lego’s one-dimensional plan seems to last for 90 minutes, until someone takes ownership for the added time period. 

Yep. Who is switching it up in injury time? If it's RM, you'd like to think that he's capable of realising that what he's doing in injury time is a better plan than what he's doing in the 90mins beforehand. 

[notnowcato]

9 hours ago, Colinjb said:

Ground laid after the star players left. Pochettino was no idiot, he did his research very carefully before taking over, he knew our squad would suit him, he knew the technical ability was there. See how he has done at Chelsea so far, flashes of good, but square pegs in round holes.

I see talent join us and get worse. Shea Charles looked great to begin with, as he tries to adapt to Martin he gets worse. The best managers help their players get better. I cannot think of a single player, except maybe Bazunu and Edozie, who has looked like they have genuinely improved since Martin came in. 

Managers who dogmatically stick to one way of playing (Which Pochettino doesn't do..... he can adapt) stifle talent, they don't develop it.

Shea had an off night last night, all players do, not necessarily a systems fault.  Shea had an off night last time out for NI, definitely not RM's system at fault.  Shea is a young man playing arguably the most difficult position on the pitch, experience and game time is crucial for him - we've seen the player he will become, I think his form is more to do with his inexperience than anything else.  

Bednarek looks a much better player this season than last and the previous one to that.  Jack Stephens before he got injured had clearly improved for us.  Stu A is finding his form again.  Smallbone is at least as good as he was with Stoke.  Downes looks a different player the last 3 games.  Kameldeen and Alcarez look dangerous and I believe will improve again when they have a central striker in front of them and in form.   

[Colinjb]

16 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Bednarek looks a much better player this season than last and the previous one to that. 

His indecision on whether to support Edozie or stay central last night in the build up to the second Preston goal suggests otherwise. I admire your optimism though.

[notnowcato]

6 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

His indecision on whether to support Edozie or stay central last night in the build up to the second Preston goal suggests otherwise. I admire your optimism though.

Come on, write off Bednarek's great start to the season because of a misplaced pass that ends in a goal for the oppo??  Fickle or what.

Edited 26 October, 2023 by notnowcato
made it look more like english right

[Chewy]

We don’t have a striker and haven’t since Ings left (bar about 4 months of an in-form Broja).

We have a sub-standard keeper and have done for years. We’ve also had poor centre backs for as long as I can remember.

So you’re right, players not systems matter. And without players who can score and players who can prevent the opposition scoring we’re likely to continue to be sh1t.

We didn’t fail to beat Preston or Rotherham because of Martins tactics as much as we completely lack a cutting edge. Mara, Adams, ArmA, Fraser, Charlie, Stu, Kamaldeen … even Ballard. Any of them good enough to score regularly in the top flight? Nope. Ok for a few in this division, but hardly an attack that will over power at our level, and way off the level we should be aspiring to.

It’s woeful and has been for years. Made more of an issue by our defenders and keeper.

When Martin is at fault for being kamikazee as per Leicester and Sunderland I’ll happily call him out. 
When he’s undone by having such sh1t forwards and defenders I’ll look to the recruitment team which has spectacularly failed for at least 3 years. 

 

[Toussaint]

The way we play, and played last night I don't think a striker will make any difference, its not like we are creating chances and missing them. Our build up play is so ponderous we often find 10 men between us and the goal,  the result being we are trying to thread the eye of a needle, almost imopossible. That is all on the arrogant bore of a manager.  

[benjii]

Guns don't kill people, wappers do.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Come on, write off Bednarek's great start to the season because of a misplaced pass that ends in a goal for the oppo??  Fickle or what.

He always has at least one mistake in him. That underhit pass last night was inexcusable. He was so far upfield that any mistake left us cruelly exposed.

[once_bitterne]

Our players are far better than the manager is letting them be.

[Elmore Saint]

35 minutes ago, benjii said:

Guns don't kill people, wappers do.

but 3G killed wappers (very geeky comms industry joke - apologies, but couldn't resist)

[notnowcato]

33 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

The way we play, and played last night I don't think a striker will make any difference, its not like we are creating chances and missing them. Our build up play is so ponderous we often find 10 men between us and the goal,  the result being we are trying to thread the eye of a needle, almost imopossible. That is all on the arrogant bore of a manager.  

In the last 2 or 3 games Sulemana has gotten to the byline in the oppos area and made 4 great cut backs without a striker on the end.  An instinctive striker like a Vardy would be lapping that kind of service up. Both our goals v Hull were from crosses or cut backs from the byline, it's clearly something we're trying to do and hopefully Stewart will be helping himself to.

[S-Clarke]

13 hours ago, Colinjb said:

The one thing I am certain of, is that ever since Koeman left we have massively overcomplicated how we have been run. So sure of our intelligence in trying to do things differently that we have disappeared up our own backsides. 

Football is not a complicated game, you play your players to their strengths. Systems do not win you football matches, football players do. If you are able to match players to a system, yes, it has a chance of working. But putting players in situations and ways of working that do not suit them lead to failure and stops them reaching their potential. 

Hassenhutl had a system, we couldn't afford to sustain it with a disinterested owner and lost the players that suited it. Martin has a system (not that it has bought any actual prior success) he is making players that are not capable of making it work try it. All a system and philosophy does is tell your opponents how you are going to play. Once they adapt, we collapse..... and have done for the last 4 years. Man City/Guardiola can make it work because they have more money then god and can cherry pick players to make it work.

Until we accept that we are not that clever, we will continue to fail. 

Here ends my rant.

I couldn't agree more, this is exactly where I am. The big takeaway from the Koeman/Adkins and even Pardew years is that we didn't need to be constantly reminded of a style/system/philosophy, and we didn't need to have stupid empty platitudes from the players about how they ''love playing this way''. 

We just got the best players, put them in their natural positions and played the same 11 90% of the time. Low and behold we won more than we lost or drew.

It seems to be the modern way though, everyone has been blinded by Pep seemingly reinventing football. But they are ignorant to the fact that Pep has the best players in their natural positions - low and behold they win games. That's all it needs, none of this overthinking nonsense.

We're not the only ones guilty of it. Rooney has go into Birmingham and wants to play a possession style and it'll 'take time' or something, yet Eustace had them playing perfectly fine before by just using a non-complicated approach.

Edited 26 October, 2023 by S-Clarke

[notnowcato]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He always has at least one mistake in him. That underhit pass last night was inexcusable. He was so far upfield that any mistake left us cruelly exposed.

It was under hit, slightly misdirected, yes.  Inexcusable?  Bit harsh.

JB is looking a much better player this season though, more aggressive, more leadership.

[Elmore Saint]

49 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

The way we play, and played last night I don't think a striker will make any difference, its not like we are creating chances and missing them. Our build up play is so ponderous we often find 10 men between us and the goal,  the result being we are trying to thread the eye of a needle, almost imopossible. That is all on the arrogant bore of a manager.  

As cato mentions - a striker will help for those situations when Sulemana lights the burners and gets into good wide positions.

Everything else - you are spot on regarding our ponderous play. For a good few games now, I try and keep a mental tally of the number of opposition players between the ball and goal when we are in possession. We often gain possession with 6-8 in front of us, piss around it until all 11 of theirs are back in place and then piss around some more,  getting to 5-6 in-front (in most cases) before losing the ball / trying a long effort. This is not how I want to watch football, but with the turgid tippy-tippy shit, it occupies the rest of my overactive brain in the meantime.

[notnowcato]

10 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

 

We just got the best players, put them in their natural positions and played the same 11 90% of the time. Low and behold we won more than we lost or drew.

 

He did have a fucking good squad too: VVD, Fonte, Bertrand, Soares, Wanyama, Romeu, Davis, Mane, Tadic, Pelle - sure I've missed some out as well

[Elmore Saint]

14 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We're not the only ones guilty of it. Rooney has go into Birmingham and wants to play a possession style and it'll 'take time' or something, yet Eustace had them playing perfectly fine before by just using a non-complicated approach.

I wonder how long it would take Eustace to get a tune out of our squad....

[saintant]

28 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He always has at least one mistake in him. That underhit pass last night was inexcusable. He was so far upfield that any mistake left us cruelly exposed.

It was a mistake but I'd like to see Bednarek carry the ball out of defence more - he has it in his locker. There was one occasion in the first half when he made a superb surging run with the ball and it led to KWP's goal. He should be encouraged to do more of this but the problem is that his instructions from RM are to just play simple passes to retain pointless possession.

[S-Clarke]

13 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

He did have a fucking good squad too: VVD, Fonte, Bertrand, Soares, Wanyama, Romeu, Davis, Mane, Tadic, Pelle - sure I've missed some out as well

He did, and we do this year as well which is why overcomplicating stuff with the tools at our disposal is incredibly frustrating.

Adams, Sulemana, Downes, THB, KWP, Bednarek, Armstrong, Edozie, Fraser, Alcaraz - at this level that is a ridiculous level of options to have, all leading players at this level (and a Champion from last season).

I'm not buying that narrative that we have a limited squad at this level. No chance.

Edited 26 October, 2023 by S-Clarke

[notnowcato]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

It was a mistake but I'd like to see Bednarek carry the ball out of defence more - he has it in his locker. There was one occasion in the first half when he made a superb surging run with the ball and it led to KWP's goal. He should be encouraged to do more of this but the problem is that his instructions from RM are to just play simple passes to retain pointless possession.

Fuck me, I nearly agreed with you, the last half of the last sentence let yourself down 😉

Out of curiosity; how do you know what RM's instructions are to JB with regards to carrying the ball out of defence?  

[notnowcato]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He did, and we do this year as well which is why overcomplicating stuff with the tools at our disposal is incredibly frustrating.

Adams, Sulemana, Downes, THB, KWP, Bednarek, Armstrong, Edozie, Fraser, Alcaraz - at this level that is a ridiculous level of options to have, all leading players at this level (and a Champion from last season).

I'm not buying that narrative that we have a limited squad at this level. No chance.

It's hard comparing squads 7 years or so apart, particularly when 1 squad hasn't even played 30% of the season.  I don't think this current squad is limited either but equally we should be fair and give them the season to prove themselves.

[saintant]

14 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fuck me, I nearly agreed with you, the last half of the last sentence let yourself down 😉

Out of curiosity; how do you know what RM's instructions are to JB with regards to carrying the ball out of defence?  

Fair point. Clearly I don't know what RM's instructions are for JB and it was wrong of me to imply otherwise. I should have said I suspect RM instructs JB to play simple passes rather than carry the ball out of defence.

[notnowcato]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

Fair point. Clearly I don't know what RM's instructions are for JB and it was wrong of me to imply otherwise. I should have said I suspect RM instructs JB to play simple passes rather than carry the ball out of defence.

I suspect JB is instructed to do both and it's for JB to decide based upon what he sees ahead of him.

Being critical of RM based upon something you've made up is unhealthy, and only feeds a narrative not helping anyone.  

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, notnowcato said:

It was under hit, slightly misdirected, yes.  Inexcusable?  Bit harsh.

JB is looking a much better player this season though, more aggressive, more leadership.

Perhaps I was not harsh enough. It was the main reason that they scored. He was under no pressure yet still managed to have his pass intercepted leaving Edozie and Bree to cover the sole of our left side. Breeze tracked his man inside whilst Edozie was struggling to keep up with their attacker. There’s no point in having the bulk of the possession if the opposition just needs to wait for us to make our customary mistakes.

[Bad Wolf]

14 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Both those two highlighted. They are not mutually exclusive.

You wouldn't have taken 5th at this point? =/

[Galway saint]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Perhaps I was not harsh enough. It was the main reason that they scored. He was under no pressure yet still managed to have his pass intercepted leaving Edozie and Bree to cover the sole of our left side. Breeze tracked his man inside whilst Edozie was struggling to keep up with their attacker. There’s no point in having the bulk of the possession if the opposition just needs to wait for us to make our customary mistakes.

We had approx 75% possession but still conceded two goals.

When we didn’t have the ball we looked fragile and when we did have it (which was most of the time) we looked ponderous.

it’s a weird style of play that means you have the ball most of the time but you still concede a lot of goals. i just don’t  get what the point is in wanting to have so much possession but then  being so unambitious with how you use it. i don’t get what he wants to achieve 

 

[notnowcato]

8 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Perhaps I was not harsh enough. It was the main reason that they scored. He was under no pressure yet still managed to have his pass intercepted leaving Edozie and Bree to cover the sole of our left side. Breeze tracked his man inside whilst Edozie was struggling to keep up with their attacker. There’s no point in having the bulk of the possession if the opposition just needs to wait for us to make our customary mistakes.

At fault for their second goal, yeah JB played his part as did the rest of the team ahead of him at the moment of making that pass, Edozie caught on his heels not aware of the danger.  Not sure what pass was on to JB's right but I don't recall thinking why didn't you pass to KWP, AA or SM.  Were the players ahead of him not as brave as they need to be to make an option for JB following the equaliser?  It all plays its part and unfair to single JB as the sole contributor to that. 

[saintant]

7 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Shea had an off night last night, all players do, not necessarily a systems fault.  Shea had an off night last time out for NI, definitely not RM's system at fault.  Shea is a young man playing arguably the most difficult position on the pitch, experience and game time is crucial for him - we've seen the player he will become, I think his form is more to do with his inexperience than anything else.  

Bednarek looks a much better player this season than last and the previous one to that.  Jack Stephens before he got injured had clearly improved for us.  Stu A is finding his form again.  Smallbone is at least as good as he was with Stoke.  Downes looks a different player the last 3 games.  Kameldeen and Alcarez look dangerous and I believe will improve again when they have a central striker in front of them and in form.   

I wouldn't agree that Bednarek and Stephens have noticeably improved. It's more the case that they are playing against inferior opponents now.

[Jack]

Talking about it on the long drive back today, we reckon it’s not a very strong league but we’re still making a dogs dinner of it. Ipswich aren’t even that good but pissing it by being effective enough and defending properly.
 

We’re definitely asking too much of some limited players, because we’re hell bent on playing a certain way. Absolutely shambolic defensively and we can’t keep relying on injury time for points  

 

Edited 26 October, 2023 by Jack

[Jack]

Just now, Jack said:

 

 

 

Edited 26 October, 2023 by Jack
Double post

[notnowcato]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

I wouldn't agree that Bednarek and Stephens have noticeably improved. It's more the case that they are playing against inferior opponents now.

Yep playing against inferior oppo does help, I think JBs performance levels have increased since the passive centre back we saw earlier on in the campaign.

[Roo1976]

8 hours ago, notnowcato said:

I suspect JB is instructed to do both and it's for JB to decide based upon what he sees ahead of him.

Being critical of RM based upon something you've made up is unhealthy, and only feeds a narrative not helping anyone.  

being feed the same narrative in RM tactics is unhealthy for fans alike dont you think? recycled tactics every game rinse repeat . Theres no fuck were loosing with 5 or so minutes left lets try getting it up the pitch quicker without 20 or so passes. Its slightly better watching atm, but the teams in this league are somewhat weaker than we've played in recent seasons obviously, but were dominating the ball for the sake of not fucking producing any significant resulting attacks.

[Turkish]

This sums it up. 72% possession and over 400 more passes yet pretty much unanimous view that we were shit and lucky to get a draw  

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

This sums it up. 72% possession and over 400 more passes yet pretty much unanimous view that we were shit and lucky to get a draw  

Yep. The thing is we knew what we were getting from having watched Swansea, and from what their fans said. These players, played to their strengths, and with purpose to their play rather than pointless keep ball, would do bloody well. There's no way we should be 10 points behind Ipswich. 

[AlexLaw76]

15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

This sums it up. 72% possession and over 400 more passes yet pretty much unanimous view that we were shit and lucky to get a draw  

Classic Russell Martin

More of this shit to come

[HarvSFC]

https://x.com/justsaints_/status/1708532250344833183?s=46&t=DnjqB_BjPeOe3XF6SOVEuQ
 

Alcaraz was important during our best performance of the season, the first half of the match against Leeds. What was he doing? Dropping deep into areas that Leeds weren’t picking him up and helping us to move up the pitch quickly.

What’s he been doing in his appearances since then? Being played as a false 9 and the furthest man forward, a position he has struggled to make an impact in. Now, similarly to KWP, we know that Alcaraz is a good player, albeit the latter is still young and inconsistency is expected. But, like KWP earlier in the season, I feel like Alcaraz has been majorly misused in Martin’s tactics and is thus making him look crap, rather than Alcaraz having a big drop in form. 
 

I reckon Alcaraz would be best suited to the position Stuart Armstrong is playing, who also isn’t playing that well, barring a good goal against Stoke. He could also play the Smallbone role. However, the latter two seem to be more trusted. I’d also say that Shea Charles was misused last night. Looked good earlier in the season in the holding role. But, that’s Downes’ position, so Charles was a bit further up, which he’s less suited to and he pretty much got hung out to dry last night. 

I’d also agree that systems don’t win matches, especially once the system has been worked out, as Martin’s has due to his years of being in this league and his inflexibility to move away from his system. The best managers are the flexible, adaptive managers. Klopp’s and Guardiola’s Liverpool and City sides are nothing like the two sides they put together when they first joined. The worst managers are the stubborn ones…

 

[Secret Site Agent]

12 hours ago, benjii said:

Guns don't kill people, wappers do.

And there is me thinking Guns dont kill people, wabbits do!

[Galway saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

This sums it up. 72% possession and over 400 more passes yet pretty much unanimous view that we were shit and lucky to get a draw  

flip it round and they had one third the possession and the number of passes but the same number of goals and shots.

ordinarily, you would look at those statistics and say the Home team fluked a draw, but in reality, we were the lucky ones to get away with a draw.

it’s bizarre that you can have that much possession and many passes, but still looks so disjointed and incoherent.

 

 

 

[CB Fry]

9 hours ago, Turkish said:

This sums it up. 72% possession and over 400 more passes yet pretty much unanimous view that we were shit and lucky to get a draw  

You're just jealous you didn't go to that tactical masterclass fans forum the other week.

[Long Shot]

22 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Come on, write off Bednarek's great start to the season because of a misplaced pass that ends in a goal for the oppo??  Fickle or what.

Sorry as usual you are golding the lily. Trying to make out the likes of Stephens and Bednarek have improved because of Martin is bullshit. Both players came back from their loan periods better players. Martin is making good players go backwards. Charles is a good example. Looked a good signing when he first arrived, now he looks awful. Holgate looks like he never played in the PL. I could go on. 
Martin is a poor manager with a poor record and had it not been for a flurry of late goals we would be in the lower half of the table. Get your head out of the sand. 

[Toussaint]

19 hours ago, notnowcato said:

I suspect JB is instructed to do both and it's for JB to decide based upon what he sees ahead of him.

Being critical of RM based upon something you've made up is unhealthy, and only feeds a narrative not helping anyone.  

It’s not really making things up, you chose those  words purely to belittle another posters pov. it’s speculation, supposition, conjecture, call it what you will, we all do it. if we took all speculation away from the forum and restricted ourselves to reporting facts, there wouldn’t be much left and what was left would be extremely dry.

I have formed the opinion that RM is very rigid in his style of play and really isn’t that keen on players going rogue, based on what I’ve seen so far this season. Someone, probably RM, took the handbrake off against Leeds and often late in matches when we are playing catch up, but other than that it seems very rigid.
 

I appreciate you like the guy and the regime, but I detest it and struggle to motivate myself to go to matches, despite having a season ticket for decades. I’m willing to speculate that the greater majority of fans feel the same way.

[rooney]

When we were in the Championship  before and playing under Nigel Adkins, I always felt we could win every game and was confident before ko.  I do not feel like that now. Quite happy to see the passing game after we are 2 goals or so up, but always feel on tenterhooks before we score now.