Saints 2-1 West Brom - Match Thread

[Maury Dyer]

Bloody hate West Brum. I remember 2005, under Harry Bastard Rednapp. West Brum lost to pompey, and we went down.....

[gio1saints]

2 hours ago, dellboysaint said:

Cannot understand why Alcarez, S.Armstrong and Sulemana were not picked for games like Ipswich. They have made a huge difference to be playing week in week out recently. Baffling from Martin.

Stu was not physically fit to start/ complete 90. RM has eased him into 90 minutes very carefully. 

Sulemana was not able to understand his role in and out of possession plus was also coming back from injury. Edozie just “ got it” quicker so got the LW starts. 
 

Charlie has also taken time to understand his role in the team- again especially out of possession. And his discipline as well. Quality not an issue but defensive discipline a little bit. 

[gio1saints]

2 hours ago, Matty's Caddy said:

The biggest difference for me was Fraser coming on. For the goal, he hasn’t farted around with it trying to beat his man multiple times, ala sulemana, he just dropped his shoulder, shifts it and puts an excellent cross into the danger area. 
With Ross Stewart hopefully now our focal point and even Adams, the more of that type of tactic with the forwards knowing when the ball is coming into the box, should give them a chance to attack the ball instead of standing around waiting for sulemana to do his thing then have the ball recycled. For me, sulemana is by far the more skilful player but Fraser is far more effective. 
 

Very astute observation. Ryan has got an older wiser head on his shoulders - and if his job is to lob it over to RS to head in that’s what he will do - but KS has the speed and probably desire to “ make his name” so that altruism is not quite natural to him- yet. IF KS gets that onboard he could be a ridiculously valuable EPL player..and I think that’s how Saints see him too. 

[spyinthesky]

19 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Not a chance were West brom shit. They were largely lacking a final ball but their defence was the most organised I've seen this year. They will make the playoffs imo. 

Quite a turnround from last season when the new Manager took over and his leadership transformed the team from bottom three to nearly reaching the playoffs bearing in mind the club has significant problems with its Chinese owners and the team West Brom put out on Saturday had comparatively minimal cost and I suspect the wages were about 50% of ours.
Credit to them, their Manager and their supporters but having said that I am glad we won!!

[OVER THE HILL]

40 minutes ago, Maury Dyer said:

Bloody hate West Brum. I remember 2005, under Harry Bastard Rednapp. West Brum lost to pompey, and we went down.....

West Brom beat Pompey on the last day.

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, saintant said:

Yeah, I think we'd be better starting Fraser and bring Sulemana off the bench when opponents are tiring.

But then he won’t be able to score 95th minute winners. 

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Maury Dyer said:

Bloody hate West Brum. I remember 2005, under Harry Bastard Rednapp. West Brum lost to pompey, and we went down.....

Skates actually deliberately lost to WBA, but anyway that result was irrelevant to us. We would’ve gone down regardless of what happened in that match. 

[Dark Munster]

45 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Quite a turnround from last season when the new Manager took over and his leadership transformed the team from bottom three to nearly reaching the playoffs bearing in mind the club has significant problems with its Chinese owners and the team West Brom put out on Saturday had comparatively minimal cost and I suspect the wages were about 50% of ours.
Credit to them, their Manager and their supporters but having said that I am glad we won!!

He does seem like a top quality manager. I wonder where we’d be in the league if Ankersen chose him instead of RM?

[ErwinK1961]

57 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

He does seem like a top quality manager. I wonder where we’d be in the league if Ankersen chose him instead of RM?

Give it a rest.

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

Quite a turnround from last season when the new Manager took over and his leadership transformed the team from bottom three to nearly reaching the playoffs bearing in mind the club has significant problems with its Chinese owners and the team West Brom put out on Saturday had comparatively minimal cost and I suspect the wages were about 50% of ours.
Credit to them, their Manager and their supporters but having said that I am glad we won!!

I've seen this view on Twitter that their team was assembled for pennies and how the teams on paper yesterday were a mis-match.

Without going back, at least half their team played for them in the Premier League, I'm sure of it? Just off the top of my head - their whole defence plus Phillips, Diangana and their CM. 

[LuckyNumber7]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

He does seem like a top quality manager. I wonder where we’d be in the league if Ankersen chose him instead of RM?

He's an excellent manager, was assistant under Bielsa at Leeds and did a great job at Huddersfield too. But we can't just go and get whoever we want, even if we'd made an approach I'm sure it would have been very difficult to pry him from West Brom. Anyway Martin is doing a good job.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, OVER THE HILL said:

West Brom beat Pompey on the last day.

And even if they hadn't, we still would have gone down anyway.

I remember going to our game at the Hawthorns that season (when we drew 0-0 after Prutton missed an open goal) and nearly getting frostbite in my toes 🥶 

[JRM]

31 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I've seen this view on Twitter that their team was assembled for pennies and how the teams on paper yesterday were a mis-match.

Without going back, at least half their team played for them in the Premier League, I'm sure of it? Just off the top of my head - their whole defence plus Phillips, Diangana and their CM. 

There does seem to be a contradiction where WBA are presented as penniless battlers where the owners were looking to sell everyone to raise cash and yet they seem to keep their best players and manager, think they're a bit stronger than they try to make out being plucky underdogs. 

[StrangelyBrown]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

He's currently playing his best and most consistent football since being here and for the first time he's trusted from the start on a regular basis. This idea he should "play to his strengths" and "be let off the leash" has only ever got him inconsistency from what I can tell. I think he should continue to be used in the way he is whilst developing an end product.

Recycling the ball is a much better decision for the team than him running blindly up the field with everyone around him struggling A) to keep up and B) to know what he's going to do. It's also clearly better for him as well because he becomes unpredictable for defenders and it's getting him more game time.

I'd agree with you if we turned the recycled ball into opportunities, but so often we lose the ball closer to our goal having recycled it from the edge of the box. If you don't shoot you don't score, if you don't create chances you don't shoot, etc. For some reason we are incredibly cautious in the final third and I don't think it plays to our strengths. But each to their own.

[gio1saints]

49 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

I'd agree with you if we turned the recycled ball into opportunities, but so often we lose the ball closer to our goal having recycled it from the edge of the box. If you don't shoot you don't score, if you don't create chances you don't shoot, etc. For some reason we are incredibly cautious in the final third and I don't think it plays to our strengths. But each to their own.

One counter theory to that is that it’s probably a case of your ( and many fans) perception rather than the objective reality.

Let me put some factual context into that statement : Saints are currently far and away the team with the most touches of the ball in the final third in our league (and I mean by miles), so far this season. 

Then, add that Saints have the third highest shot creating actions (SCA/90 mins) this season in our league and a picture starts to emerge. That’s Better than LCFC  and LUFC incidentally but less than Ipswich and Sunderland.
 

That may be all well and good but we don’t shoot enough whatever. Fair- BUT-  from the data, it’s not that we don’t get into goal scoring situations final third or are lacking in shots versus the rest of league. What it is- and this is blatantly obvious if you look at the stats - is that we do not score enough from our shots on goal. Indeed we are currently 4th or 5th bottom of the Championship on converting shots into goals. 
And THAT is the nub of the problem. Third highest shots per match and by far most touches of ball in opposition Final third but those shots are basically bottom of the league standard in terms of actually going in. 
And that’s why we can summise we have bought the Loch Ness Drogba to address that major weakness turning shots into goals. 

[Bad Wolf]

What is our goal music? It's catchy

[StrangelyBrown]

31 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

One counter theory to that is that it’s probably a case of your ( and many fans) perception rather than the objective reality.

Let me put some factual context into that statement : Saints are currently far and away the team with the most touches of the ball in the final third in our league (and I mean by miles), so far this season. 

Then, add that Saints have the third highest shot creating actions (SCA/90 mins) this season in our league and a picture starts to emerge. That’s Better than LCFC  and LUFC incidentally but less than Ipswich and Sunderland.
 

That may be all well and good but we don’t shoot enough whatever. Fair- BUT-  from the data, it’s not that we don’t get into goal scoring situations final third or are lacking in shots versus the rest of league. What it is- and this is blatantly obvious if you look at the stats - is that we do not score enough from our shots on goal. Indeed we are currently 4th or 5th bottom of the Championship on converting shots into goals. 
And THAT is the nub of the problem. Third highest shots per match and by far most touches of ball in opposition Final third but those shots are basically bottom of the league standard in terms of actually going in. 
And that’s why we can summise we have bought the Loch Ness Drogba to address that major weakness turning shots into goals. 

Blatantly obvious? Take your head out of RMs arseshole for a minute... We had 4 less shots than west brom. We had one more on target but their hitting of the cross bar and the Phillips shot that was literally a whisker away weren't "on target". For all our possession we only registered 3 shots on target.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[trousers]

36 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

What the fuck are you talking about?

It's called bait, and he gets plenty of bites...

[Dark Munster]

7 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Give it a rest.

I'll "give it a rest" when/if we go up at the end of this season, thank you very much.

And if we don't I'll ratchet it up, not against RM, but the plonker (Ankersen) who selected him.

[The Cat]

6 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

I'll "give it a rest" when/if we go up at the end of this season, thank you very much.

And if we don't I'll ratchet it up, not against RM, but the plonker (Ankersen) who selected him.

Ratchet it up by posting even more insults and maybe thinking up another oh so hilarious name that you can call him on the internet?

[gio1saints]

9 hours ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Blatantly obvious? Take your head out of RMs arseshole for a minute... We had 4 less shots than west brom. We had one more on target but their hitting of the cross bar and the Phillips shot that was literally a whisker away weren't "on target". For all our possession we only registered 3 shots on target.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I’m sorry if the facts do not suit your narrative. Getting angry with me won’t change the facts. We are 5th bottom at turning shots into goals but third in numbers of shots overall and top for shot creating actions.

Your premise was we don’t shoot enough. I said fair- but that an alternate was we actually do - but not enough go in. What is it you fail to understand? Why get offensive to me? 

I’ve posted some facts about Southampton’s play here, which are easily available online. I’ve offered an alternative point of view to your own, and backed it up. It should not elicit that kind of response if you want to discuss anything Saints here and frankly will put people off posting there opinions if anything 

As for some of the fellow angry comments. I recognise the names - the usual irrational anti RM mob who have had to keep quiet because, well, eight games unbeaten kind of fucks up that pov. 
 

Im a saints fan happy we are doing better then for a long time. Enjoying the moment. Enjoying the style. Many saints fans feel same. Winning Saturday when a draw was fair was karma for drawing v Rotherham when 4-1 would have been fair if you like! 
 

[Winnersaint]

A few shouting at clouds still.

[Wade Garrett]

17 hours ago, Maury Dyer said:

Bloody hate West Brum. I remember 2005, under Harry Bastard Rednapp. West Brum lost to pompey, and we went down.....

West Brom beat Pompey and we went down.

[notnowcato]

8 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

I'll "give it a rest" when we go up at the end of this season, thank you very much.

 

I doubt it

[notnowcato]

10 hours ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Blatantly obvious? Take your head out of RMs arseshole for a minute... We had 4 less shots than west brom. We had one more on target but their hitting of the cross bar and the Phillips shot that was literally a whisker away weren't "on target". For all our possession we only registered 3 shots on target.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Were you expecting an end to end, basketball style game?  West Brom are arguably the best organised defence in the Championship and are potent on the break, it was always going to be a cagey game.  Your aggression is befuddling.

[Dman]

I thought first 30 we were brilliant, quick, direct and looked dangerous. Had a blantant pen 'missed' for Holgate getting his shirt ripped off and had we gone in 2-0, I think we'd have gone on to win 3 or 4. 

WBA grew into the game from 30 mins onwards and were probably the better side for the large majority of the game. On balance, a draw would have been a far result. 

I thought both the CB's were excellant, Holgate worthy MOTM but could have easily been THB. Holgates distribution was brilliant I thought.

I thought Alcaraz was pretty poor - very sloppy on the ball and offered very little off it - apart from that everyone else was a 6-7/10. 

Stewart I thought looked really sharp - excited to see what he can bring and could be the difference for us. 

Ultimately we won the game, so can't complain too much, but I thought Martins subs weren't great. I'd have brought on Charles for Smallbone and not replaced Bree with Manning. 

One thing I did notice, which was frustrating; Just before the goal, we had 3 subs lined up ready to come on. We'd been up against it and those subs we're needed to just take the sting out of the game and regain some control. We had a goal kick, the 4th wasn't ready and the bench were screaming at THB not to take the goal kick... We take it quick, they then come down and score. Just a bit of savvyness is lacking. 

[LuckyNumber7]

8 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

I'll "give it a rest" when/if we go up at the end of this season, thank you very much.

And if we don't I'll ratchet it up, not against RM, but the plonker (Ankersen) who selected him.

It was Jason Wilcox who selected him.

[The Cat]

30 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

It was Jason Wilcox who selected him.

That's lucky because it means he can call him Jason Wilcocks. This will obviously be hilarious for all the other 12 year olds on here who laugh at funny names relating to genitalia.

[ErwinK1961]

10 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

I'll "give it a rest" when/if we go up at the end of this season, thank you very much.

And if we don't I'll ratchet it up, not against RM, but the plonker (Ankersen) who selected him.

If you’re going to insist on carrying on, at least gets your facts right.

Congratulations on refraining from putting a W in front of Ankersen this time though.

[gio1saints]

FWIW Saints are TOP of the Championship for yellow cards. 

The number of yellow cards that are extra/over the league average are due, imo, to us not getting our defensive positioning correct early season, especially in transitions/ on the counterattack attack. 

I was worried earlier this season by this because we are not getting out this league playing with ten men too often. - but less so now. 

I think we have/or more accurately had, a tendency to over commit going forward in order to create an overload (pass and score around opponents by outnumbering them ) but when we’ve lost possession it’s necessitated a tug back or blatant foul by one of our players to break up the play before it gets too dangerous. Hence yellow cards. 
 

RM / the team seem to have noticed this and we seem less vulnerable to the break than before ( less not immune - we still suffer and it’s still a thing especially at home). 

Perhaps the lesson is that really only one fb should be offensive at any one time- not both as it leaves us too exposed. Bree seems to have got the message. Early season Manning was trying to copy KWP but much less successfully. Good news is that allthree ( and Larios I think) have it in their locker to bomb forward - difference is now that we are being a bit more discriminating about when and how it happens. 

 

[miserableoldgit]

3 hours ago, The Cat said:

That's lucky because it means he can call him Jason Wilcocks. This will obviously be hilarious for all the other 12 year olds on here who laugh at funny names relating to genitalia.

Including the person who called THB Hardon Bellend after two games....

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

I would have said that was pretty reasonable entertainment on Saturday but clearly not enough to keep this Baggie awake

 

[Dark Munster]

6 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

It was Jason Wilcox who selected him.

We were scouting RM about 6 months before Wilcox joined us. 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

We were scouting RM about 6 months before Wilcox joined us. 

There comes a time when you just need to put the shovel down and walk away. 

[StrangelyBrown]

9 hours ago, gio1saints said:

I’m sorry if the facts do not suit your narrative. Getting angry with me won’t change the facts. We are 5th bottom at turning shots into goals but third in numbers of shots overall and top for shot creating actions.

Your premise was we don’t shoot enough. I said fair- but that an alternate was we actually do - but not enough go in. What is it you fail to understand? Why get offensive to me? 

I’ve posted some facts about Southampton’s play here, which are easily available online. I’ve offered an alternative point of view to your own, and backed it up. It should not elicit that kind of response if you want to discuss anything Saints here and frankly will put people off posting there opinions if anything 

As for some of the fellow angry comments. I recognise the names - the usual irrational anti RM mob who have had to keep quiet because, well, eight games unbeaten kind of fucks up that pov. 
 

Im a saints fan happy we are doing better then for a long time. Enjoying the moment. Enjoying the style. Many saints fans feel same. Winning Saturday when a draw was fair was karma for drawing v Rotherham when 4-1 would have been fair if you like! 
 

I'm big and ugly enough to admit my response was way OTT, but perhaps it's the relentless condescending tone that comes with every bit of trolling you do on here that winds people up (it certainly pushes my buttons)?

There are a multitude of stats out there. Some support your view. Some support the contrary. It is a game of opinions so I'll agree to disagree with you, but please stop stating things are "facts" when there is an element subjectivity to them - stats are open to interpretation and can be manipulated to support almost any point of view and there's always a different stat that supports a different POV.

[gio1saints]

I apologise if my response came across as condescending. Thank you in turn for apologising for your ott response. 

I hope that you have access to the following website so you can look for yourself and see where the stats I quoted come from. It’s been objectively helpful recently in my understanding of what’s going in with russball.

But yeah, Lies damned lies and stats we all know the quote. 😇
https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/Championship-Stats#all_stats_squads_possession

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

5 hours ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

I would have said that was pretty reasonable entertainment on Saturday but clearly not enough to keep this Baggie awake

 

Just after that a Brom player skied a chance over the bar and the chant then was "go back to sleep". Can't beat good British football banter

[sfc4prem]

6 hours ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

I would have said that was pretty reasonable entertainment on Saturday but clearly not enough to keep this Baggie awake

 

Even the boring Baggies fans finding that amusing. Love it.

[ErwinK1961]

5 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

We were scouting RM about 6 months before Wilcox joined us. 

And Wilcox was doing unofficial work for us since January 2023.

[goodymatt]

14 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

And Wilcox was doing unofficial work for us since January 2023.

This is a good point. Wilcox said he was his choice and it all feels pretty well aligned to me in terms of game model etc.

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, goodymatt said:

This is a good point. Wilcox said he was his choice and it all feels pretty well aligned to me in terms of game model etc.

Really? Do you have a source for that?

[The Cat]

5 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Really? Do you have a source for that?

 

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, The Cat said:

 

That doesn't mean he instigated the recruitment, just that he approved the choice.

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

That doesn't mean he instigated the recruitment, just that he approved the choice.

The quote doesn't say that at all.

"the first port of call was to get the manager that plays and thinks the same way as me"

What that says is Wilcox is the guy that gets the manager and he got one that thinks like he does.

No point you asking for "sources" if all you're going to do is pretend they mean something else.

[LuckyNumber7]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

The quote doesn't say that at all.

"the first port of call was to get the manager that plays and thinks the same way as me"

What that says is Wilcox is the guy that gets the manager and he got one that thinks like he does.

No point you asking for "sources" if all you're going to do is pretend they mean something else.

IIRC, I think at the forum he also stated clearly that Martin is his man. Regardless, it's been said more than once. Not to mention the fact that as Director of Football, appointing a manager would be one of his main tasks.

[Dark Munster]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

The quote doesn't say that at all.

"the first port of call was to get the manager that plays and thinks the same way as me"

What that says is Wilcox is the guy that gets the manager and he got one that thinks like he does.

No point you asking for "sources" if all you're going to do is pretend they mean something else.

“We are thinking of Russell Martin. What do you think?”  - Ankersen

”Yes I approve. He plays and thinks the same way as me.” - Wilcox

Now I’m not saying that’s how it happened but it’s another interpretation. 

Edited 15 November, 2023 by Dark Munster

[davefizzy14]

Great result and win for us now eight unbeaten. Cool finishes from Smallbone and Adam Armstrong Harwood-Bellis was obviously on another level for me, top, top cb Holgate deserved his MOTM, he was outstanding COYR

Edited 15 November, 2023 by davefizzy14

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

“We are thinking of Russell Martin. What do you think?”  - Ankersen

”Yes I approve. He plays and thinks the same way as me.” - Wilcox

Now I’m not saying that’s how it happened but it’s another interpretation. 

Just to recap, you get to ask people for "sources" and then when it's there in black and white pretend it doesn't say what it says.

And you get to just make shit up.

Clear.

[Dark Munster]

22 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Just to recap, you get to ask people for "sources" and then when it's there in black and white pretend it doesn't say what it says.

And you get to just make shit up.

Clear.

Just to recap, I didn't make any shit up, the "source" doesn't quote him as saying he was the one who originally chose RM.

[Dark Munster]

8 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

IIRC, I think at the forum he also stated clearly that Martin is his man. Regardless, it's been said more than once. Not to mention the fact that as Director of Football, appointing a manager would be one of his main tasks.

He certainly would have to approve the choice.